Machining aluminum

[Mechanos]

Anyone here ever try to "machine" a piece of 6061-T6 with a router? My neighbor works in a cabinet fab shop and he told me that some of the guys down there use a router and ordinary router bits to machine aluminum. I think I'm going to give it a shot for a project I'm working on.

[300sniper]

never done it but i sure have considered using my router table with an end mill bit for cutting out an oil pan flange i was making. i ended up using a jig saw and it turned out good enough so i never put any more thought into the router. i am curious as to what others say.

[ChiScouter]

Ive cut plenty of aluminum using miterboxes and tablesaws, but never with a router. My .02 is to wear ear plugs inside of full size ear protectors and safety glasses behind a face shield. Wear gloves too. Cutting aluminum is super loud and the chips go everywhere. A lot of guys use gulfwax for lube, but I just usually use WD40.

That 16ft piece of 2x2x1/4 inch aluminum angle I had to fix my garage door was ripped on a table saw to remove a half an inch and I got about 10 cuts on my fingers because I didn't wear gloves:(

Have Fun:laughing:

[androbus]

Anyone here ever try to "machine" a piece of 6061-T6 with a router? My neighbor works in a cabinet fab shop and he told me that some of the guys down there use a router and ordinary router bits to machine aluminum. I think I'm going to give it a shot for a project I'm working on.

done it!
what exactly are you planning?
I had bid on a job assuming that i would have my gorton mill up-n-running(still not after six plus years..in storage now...divorced..and again this week arrrgh!)....so i did some thunking....

1/2" 6061-t6 neded to be cut into a two-part keyhole shape with hole section about fifteen inches round.outside dims when together were ~20" square.

I managed to cut out the basic shape with my band saw, than touched up with a belt sander....than clamped down to bench and routed with a dewalt two horse router. what i found out is the normal speed for a router is waaaay too fast and it will melt teh aluminum unless ou go slow and maybr tke a few passes.....but i managed to machine out fifteen sets over a few nights(working all night a few times as i had promised my boss i could get it done...made a few good bucks, but would prefer ot to do it again unless i slowed down teh router, they sell router conrol box's but no-one had one in town at the time(go figure! San Jose? whoda thunk?)

if you are being ingenious you can mount the router upright on a table and use it as a pin-router witha template and go full producion. really not that hard to do...again i depends on wha you are doing.
my co-worker scoffs at power equipment when he can use a hacksaw and files where i learned years ago powe tools are your friend...but he has been doing so for thirty years

[Mechanos]

I need to cut a perfect 4" circle in a chunck of 3/4" plate. On the back side, there will be another circle 4.875" concentric with hole on the other side forming a step. I made a circle cutting jig for my router, put the plunge base on it, chucked up a 1/2" spiral flute plunge bit and went to town. The idea and the jig worked perfectly on a plywood mock-up.... now I just gotta see if it will work on the aluminum. The cutting will all be plunge cutting, so I can make many fine cuts if need be.

[JeepinDoug]

I would highly suggest you not try it........but if you have more determination than brains don't use carbide bits. They can't handle the lack of rigidity. Aluminum likes a very aggresive hook in tooling and it needs to stay sharp. Aluminum is very gummy and sharp tools suck themselves into the material so you have two things that work against this effort, self propelling tool/material combo and a lack of rigidity. It makes for a dangerous situation.
If you have a way of holding everything rigid then use a free hand to spray coolant. Aluminum loves a solvent and oil mix, make sure the solvent has a fairly high flash point. Atomized kerosene is not good when it's right next to electric motor brushes.

[supervert]

i milled some bar stock to make some handlebar risers for my crf50. did it on a router table, like bus said it spins a little fast. i had to make a rough cut first and then a fast clean cut. routed all the edges with 1/2" 1/4 round, it looked just like it came out of a cnc.:smokin:

try a speed controler,they have them at HF for about $15

[Arya Ebrahimi]

I wonder how hard it would be to rewire the router to slow it down a bit. Shouldn't be that hard. Could probably swap the switch electronics from a variable speed drill, or something like that.

Let us know how it works, would definately be cool.

[Mechanos]

Here's a pic of the bit I was thinking of using:

[Ed ke6bnl]

I milled this parts center on my mill but the outer radius i did with a regular router and its roundover bit. no problem at all.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v313/ke6bnl/Ford%2050%20F1/steercol.jpg

Ed ke6bnl

[mike]

I wonder how hard it would be to rewire the router to slow it down a bit. Shouldn't be that hard. Could probably swap the switch electronics from a variable speed drill, or something like that.

Let us know how it works, would definately be cool.
You don't need to slow it down. I've milkled a lot of aluminium with a 3 1/2 hp router, had the speed set for the bit size, it mills pretty much exactly like wood.

[mike]

I would highly suggest you not try it........but if you have more determination than brains don't use carbide bits. They can't handle the lack of rigidity. Aluminum likes a very aggresive hook in tooling and it needs to stay sharp. Aluminum is very gummy and sharp tools suck themselves into the material so you have two things that work against this effort, self propelling tool/material combo and a lack of rigidity. It makes for a dangerous situation.
If you have a way of holding everything rigid then use a free hand to spray coolant. Aluminum loves a solvent and oil mix, make sure the solvent has a fairly high flash point. Atomized kerosene is not good when it's right next to electric motor brushes.

So far everything in this post is wrong. You want to climb cut with aluminum and you want to use carbide cutters. If you'd really like to know how you can do this stuff, Pat Warner will have answers... probably already in a book he'll sell ya and send via email http://patwarner.com/

[nissancrawler]

I work on jets, and the ONLY thing we use on aluminum are carbide tools, i.e., rotary files, etc. I wonder if a rotary file in a router would work pretty nicely.

[Mechanos]

Well, I got a speed controller from HF today for about $13. I did some testing on a piece of scrap (freehand) and the aluminum cuts like butter with the bit I pictured above. I couldn't really tell any difference between the Al and the piece of plywood I cut last night. I started out with the speed controller set at about 1/2 on my 1 1/2 HP router and it cut OK, the motor would tend to bog down at a feed rate of anything over a crawl. I up the speed to about 2/3 and it cut just as good, but without the bogging. I didn't try it at full speed, but perhaps I should give it a try. I was a little concerned about overheating the bit at full speed. I didn't use any coolant/lube for the test... should I use something when I cut the final piece?

With the succesful test, I'll be picking up a piece of 6061 in the next couple of days to make the real deal.

BTW.... my router is rated at a free spindle speed of 23,000 RPM. When cutting the Al, it wasn't any louder than cutting a piece of wood.

[CJeep77]

Be careful that the bit does not walk out of the collet due to the heavy cutting force!:eek: Sounds a bit scary....

[mike]

Be careful that the bit does not walk out of the collet due to the heavy cutting force!:eek: Sounds a bit scary....
Aluminium cuts pretty much the same as wood. Sorry you guys seem to have a problem believing that, but it's true.

[Aces'n'8s]

Aluminium cuts pretty much the same as wood. Sorry you guys seem to have a problem believing that, but it's true.


In much the same way, many a person would have trouble believing one can cut steel with a plywood blade chucked into a jig/recip saw.

:D

[mike]

In much the same way, many a person would have trouble believing one can cut steel with a plywood blade chucked into a jig/recip saw.

:D
indeed, bimetal blades rock ;)

[JeepinDoug]

So far everything in this post is wrong. You want to climb cut with aluminum and you want to use carbide cutters. If you'd really like to know how you can do this stuff, Pat Warner will have answers... probably already in a book he'll sell ya and send via email http://patwarner.com/

Please elaborate where my post is wrong.

[mike]

Please elaborate where my post is wrong.
There is no reason to not use carbide cutting, or routing aluminum. What lack of rigidity in aluminium? You mean like the inherent lack of rigidity in wood? Aluminum is "gummy" but the flutes on say.. an upcut router bit clears the chips very efficiently.There is no need to cool non-ferrous metals with anything while cutting them with carbide blades at normal wood cutting speeds. Routing aluminum with a wood router is not the same as using a mill. But it can be, and is frequently done safely. I've done quite a bit of it, I'm guessing from your post you haven't.

[JeepinDoug]

There is no reason to not use carbide cutting, or routing aluminum. What lack of rigidity in aluminium? You mean like the inherent lack of rigidity in wood? Aluminum is "gummy" but the flutes on say.. an upcut router bit clears the chips very efficiently.There is no need to cool non-ferrous metals with anything while cutting them with carbide blades at normal wood cutting speeds. Routing aluminum with a wood router is not the same as using a mill. But it can be, and is frequently done safely. I've done quite a bit of it, I'm guessing from your post you haven't.

Wow mike, by far the the most uneducated post I've ever read from you. Stick to wood.

[Mechanos]

Wow mike, by far the the most uneducated post I've ever read from you. Stick to wood.
Why don't you try and point out what's wrong with what mike is saying with factual type statements instead of 3rd grade name calling.

You said earlier that Al likes an aggressive hook when it comes to tooling. Did you see the pic of the bit I'm using? That's a pretty damn aggressive hook if I ever saw one. I backed up the "theory" with actual testing in the shop. I tried the above pictured bit at 1/2, 2/3 and full speed on my Porter Cable 1.5 HP router. 2/3 and full speed worked best. I assure you, there is no problem clearing the chips as evidenced by the cloud of chips flying every-fuckin'-where. That bit has wide open flutes and is an upcut bit and has no problems clearing the chips. There is no buildup on the bit. I can't tell the difference between cutting wood or the Al and the chips are the same size and shape for both wood & Al.

Just accept the fact that it works.... I (and other who posted in this thread) have proven that it does work, so you're not going to convince me that it doesn't.

[SHERPA]

I've done minor* aluminum work with a router a long time ago with okay results.

add to that, I was told to only use carbide blades (think chopsaw/table saw)

application............ I have a 100 dollar 12" chopsaw blade that has only seen

aluminum............. no problems for 5+ years of little use.......... I will add

that these blades are usually only rated to cut 3/16" thick MAX material......

I've cut 3" material with it, just veeeeeeeeeeeeery slow, and either wax, or

wd-40...........

--Sherpa

[JeepinDoug]

Why don't you try and point out what's wrong with what mike is saying with factual type statements instead of 3rd grade name calling.


First off I didn't call names.
Secondly I already stated the facts regarding machining aluminum.
The end mill pic is a good end mill for aluminum, aggressive hook.
Rigidity doesn't mean the how stiff the tool is, it means how tight the piece is held and way control.
Aluminum is not wood.
Non-ferrous materials do need coolant (excluding brass) for several reasons including chip flushing and tool life.

I don't want to bring this discussion way off topic and turn it into a pissing match, as posted a router seems to do a decent job of removing material from aluminum. I'd be very leary about plunging into T6 with a carbide tool.
My replys are short because I have a machine shop to run at this hour.

[Mechanos]

I will have to trim my piece of 3/4" thick stock to final dimension. Now you have me contemplating the use of either my table saw or radial arm saw to make those cuts. :laughing:

The only way I'd consider using the radial arm saw would be to "back-cut" the piece. In other words... pull the saw head all the way out, place the piece to be cut next to the fence and then push the blade back towards the fence. This would keep the blade from grabbing the stock and trying to pull itself into the workpiece.

[Mechanos]

...The end mill pic is a good end mill for aluminum, aggressive hook...
That isn't an end mill... it's a Freud 1/2" spiral flute router bit.

[MC]

There is no reason to not use carbide cutting, or routing aluminum. What lack of rigidity in aluminium? You mean like the inherent lack of rigidity in wood? Aluminum is "gummy" but the flutes on say.. an upcut router bit clears the chips very efficiently.There is no need to cool non-ferrous metals with anything while cutting them with carbide blades at normal wood cutting speeds. Routing aluminum with a wood router is not the same as using a mill. But it can be, and is frequently done safely. I've done quite a bit of it, I'm guessing from your post you haven't.

A couple of things to consider.

Carbide gives all the heat to the chip which can cause chip welding. Anything other than micrograin carbide doesnt like the lack of rigidity in either the material holding or the spindle and is prone to chipping from a small bit of chatter. Doug comes from a machinist background where a perfect 4" hole doesnt exist but accuracy on a 4" =/-???? means keeping tighter to the rules. Now whether or not chip welding (gumming) or chipping may occur using a router by hand I do not know that answer. Most use a fine mist of coolant to lubricate the cutter and help it resist gumming. You can get away with a little WD-40 sprayed on the top of the piece your cutting.

[solarpower]

I never waste carbide on aluminum.

Aluminum is abarasive, carbide is brittle. HSS is sharper and will finish better, but that's just 15+ years of experiance talking.:flipoff2:

[mike]

That isn't an end mill... it's a Freud 1/2" spiral flute router bit.
Funny how that works eh? The two are totally different processes too. Would I recommend routing aliminum all day long? Nope, use the right tool for the job. But it can, does, and will work. Either that or the stuff I've made with it, I didn't make.

[mike]

Why don't you try and point out what's wrong with what mike is saying with factual type statements instead of 3rd grade name calling.



:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

Doug and I are just looking at things from different perspectives, and with different tools ;)

[JeepinDoug]

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

Doug and I are just looking at things from different perspectives, and with different tools ;)

Agreed,
Or agree to disagree, :D
I always respect your posts mike even if on a very slight occasion I will disagree. Contributing perspectives and creating discussion is what brings me back to the PBB everyday.
:beer:
That and the pron.

[jpboyjeep]

I think what would scare me about routering the aluminum would be the inability to hold everything tight. I router alum once and a while, putting small radius's on flat parts, no biggy, but plunge cutting into a piece of 3/4" and going in a circle makes me wonder how tight you can hold the router against that kind of force.

I've got a job running right now routering plastic parts using an alum fixture and every so often they don't hold the router true and they hit the fixture, makes one hell of a noise, shakes the router and operator. Its cutting 1.25" thick alum at each hit, but only touching it, cutting .003" chips or so for a split second, it kicks the router right back at ya.

I would watch, from a distance! :D

GL

Lucas

[mike]

Horizontal router. Like a multi-rouer. Everythings clamped in place and the router is operated on linear bearings.

[Mechanos]

Picked up the piece of 6061-T6 tonight on the way home from work. Used my radial arm saw (making a backwards cut) to cut it length. The carbide tipped blade walked through it with zero hesitation. Then I laid out the center of the holes to be cut with the circle jig on the router.

Here's the first step... the 4.875" relief on one side of the piece. I made several passes, I only cut about 1/32" on each pass:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=277135&stc=1&d=1165902531

Then I flipped the piece over, moved the pin on the circle jig to the 4" hole spot and started cutting the 4" hole. Again, I only took off about 1/32" of an inch per pass. I paused for this pic about half-way through the piece.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=277136&stc=1&d=1165902531

Here it is after the final cut. The little notch on the bottom of the piece is a relief cut to clear a rib on the piece that butts upto it.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=277137&stc=1&d=1165902531

Worked just as smoothly and easily as the plywood mock up I made yesterday. I did use a few drops of the cutting fluid shown in the first pic on each pass.

[Arya Ebrahimi]

This is awesome, I need to go find my router! :D

[Mechanos]

General disclaimer: I personally wouldn't try this unless I was reasonably skilled with a router. It's not really a project for a novice. :flipoff2:

[supervert]

nice work. keep the pics cummin. did you you the speed controler on that?

[fj40guy]

You did that FREEHAND? I'm really impressed as it looks great!

I was thinking of a wooden template secured to the aluminum piece with a guide plate.

Also a shop vac (make a collector that is wide from cardboard and duct tape) helps keep those chips clear of the area.

Nice work. :smokin:

Tom :usa:

[Arya Ebrahimi]

You did that FREEHAND? I'm really impressed as it looks great!

Tom :usa:

Umm, he said he used a circle jig.... See the hole that he drilled in the center? The base of the router has a pin that drops in that hole. Then the whole router and jig rotate around it ;)

[aloharover]

That is pretty cool. I know someone that made up their adapter in plywood, double checked everything and then gave the playwood template to a machine shop to make the final piece from alum.
Pretty cool to see you making it all yourself :D

[fj40guy]

Post disappeared (server was acting up).

Router jig. Wood forms on both side gives a little more control, bushing on the bottom plate follows the wooden form.

Tom :usa: