After spending a half hour and a couple of dollars ($0.50 for air right outside of Paragon...grumble) airing up last weekend, I have re-focused on the need for onboard air. I've always wanted to do either a York or a Sanden/Sankyo air compressor, but nobody makes a bracket for the 3F (it would mount on the driver's side of the engine), and my fabrication skills are limited to Photoshop!:flipoff2:

I've considered a Powertank clone (not the real thing, too $$$$), but storage and space for it are an issue...

What else is out there? Electric compressors that actually put out enough CFM to make it worth it are expensive. Should I just quit whining, grab a jar of vaseline and have a fabricator make me a bracket for a York? What have other wagon people done?

Check with Kilby Enterprises, I know they were working on one.

www.kilbyenterprises.com :D

I think a PTO dedicated to a York or sanden compressor would be cool. Not sure what trans your running though?

scuba tank with chuck on yellow coiled hose(for versatility)

tank works great and can hold 3000 psi, and a lot of volume...

Kilby was working on a bracket for a 3F???? I won't hold my breath, even Cruiser-specific businesses have ignored that motor.

I think a PTO-driven compressor would be cool, but overly complicated. I have an H55F that happens to have the PTO gear, but still, I would prefer a belt-driven compressor.

As for the scuba tank, do you have to have a certified tank to get it refilled? I have a scuba tank that a buddy gave me for this same purpose. On the other hand, storage/carrying of a scuba tank would be even worse than a Powertank...

At this rate, Onboard Air is going to displace wheels as my Waterloo...

Originally posted by 60seriesguy
As for the scuba tank, do you have to have a certified tank to get it refilled?

yes, it needs to be hydrostatically tested in order for them to fill it

I have a scuba tank that a buddy gave me for this same purpose. On the other hand, storage/carrying of a scuba tank would be even worse than a Powertank...

not necessarily, a scuba tank (read: cheapest solution) could be mounted anywhere you see fit...just connect a 25 foot hose and you have air to all four corners...

There is another option as far as tanks go. I was lucky enough to get an old scba tank that firefighters use.After about 7 years or so I think they are required to replace the tanks. The one I have is made of spun fiber and holds a max of 2200psi. I was a volunteer firefighter and had easy access to refilling the tank. I took an old O2 regulator and went to a welding supplier to get the correct connector to mate the tank.I added a quick connect and 25' of hose to the regulator. The regulator can NEVER be used for O2 again but that doesnt matter to me. I would think that any local fire dept. would refill your tank if you told them what you were using it for. I filled up 3 completely flat 33x14 boggers and only used about 400# of pressure.
The SCUBA tanks are required to have an annual visual inspection($10 around here) and a 5 year hydrostatic test($35 or so around here). I think they charge about $10 for a fill up also. SCUBA tanks do hold higher pressure and more volume than the scba tanks and may be a better option since you already have one.

[ The SCUBA tanks are required to have an annual visual inspection($10 around here) and a 5 year hydrostatic test($35 or so around here). I think they charge about $10 for a fill up also. SCUBA tanks do hold higher pressure and more volume than the scba tanks and may be a better option since you already have one. [/B][/QUOTE]

SCBA's also require a hydro and visual, and I doubt many firefighters would want the wrath of the chief for filling non department bottles.
Brackets are very easy. Simple hand tools are all that is required in most cases. I know nothing about the configuration of a 3F, but just look at it and I'm sure you could figure out a hack job of a way to do it using little more than a drill and hacksaw.

exactly... as a fireman and a divemaster (hven't been down in a looong time though), I'd be pretty leery of filling a bottle at the station that wasn't our, and from a non-member of the F.D.

While I was working at a dive shop, we filled tanks in a water-filled horse trough, made of galvanized steel. One of the tanks burst from the bottom at 2200psi (steel 72), ruptured the trough (Slicing the leg of the guy working the tank), and rocketed (literally) up into the ceiling, twisting up 3/8" rebar like it was aluminum foil. Blew out the windows of the shop (the trough was right next to the door/windows)...

The tank had a current (3 years old) hydro, and a visual from another shop... the tank was a late 60's unit with a thick rubber coating. salt water had gotten under the rubber and slowly eaten away at the tank until it was razor blade thin at the bottom...

Be careful around compressed air... it's a killer!

I may be wrong, but I think the fiberglass coated scba tanks are not hydro tested. Some of the fire depts have gotten away from the aluminum tanks and gone to the carbon graphite or spun fiber tanks to lighten the load a little. Can anyone confirm?
I still like the idea of scuba better for the volume and xtra psi. I do see York in the near future though.

Sorry, I always forget that you have the 3F.:emb:

Stupid-ass exotic engine....

:flipoff2: :flipoff2:

What kind of belt would be ideal for a 3f or 3fe? I might have my dad's 91 around a bit this summer. He is wanting bumpers and sliders made. I bet I could fab up a bracket for the compressor. Farmers are good friends, they have to build almost everything as their machinery is always breaking I bet they could help me figure something out for you. Could you explain the differences between a 3f, 3fe, and 3fe in an 80 as far as accessory locations? Or are they all the same.

Originally posted by 60seriesguy
Stupid-ass exotic engine....

:flipoff2: :flipoff2:


ROTFLMAO:D :D

As for the SCOT SCBA spun bottles they come in 50 and 30cu ft volumes. Not all that much(a typical phone booth is 3'x3'x8' which is 72 cu ft.) I would HIGHLY recommend getting a regular SCUBA tank for this kind of use. SCOT SCBA(firefighter, etc) tanks use a different filling connection now and you may not have an easy time of getting it filled unless you work in: The US Navy, a mining company or a fire department.

Rough math puts a 35"(x12.50r15) tire at 5+ cubic foot volume, which means from 5 psi to 25 psig you would need 8 or so cu ft to fill it... So if you were LUCKY you'd get 10 fills out of a 80cu ft tank. And if you have larger tires tires that number of fills decreases really quickly. A 38"x14r15 will take roughly 12 cu ft to fill from 5 to 25 psig...

Now you're looking at filling it once at the end of each wheeling trip. MOST scuba shops I have been to do not require you to be certified to fill it, and I have paid as little as $2.50 and as high as $5 in So Cal for a fill. If you poke around the dive shops long enough most will be able to get you a chuck to fill tires that fits in the hose to go to your BCD. I have one and it is great if I dont feel like heading out to fill a tire. Check yardsales/penny savers for tanks and regulator setups. Bring a used one to the shop and have them take off the primary regulator and octopus and plug those ports off. Then you will be left with a gauge for tank fill and a hose that is regulated to about 100psig to put the tire filler chuck in...

hey henry, i can make a bracket for you,, and anyone else that wants it, but i need a 3f engine for the protoyping, anyone? anyone?

oh i forgot, oasis? or one of those air guys, makes an electric powered york, 12v. motor with a york and mounting bracket for fender or anywhere i suppose. its a thought

Thanks for the kind offer, Rhino, I wish we'd met when I lived in Phoenix (still miss the place like crazy)!!

Any volunteers out there? I know of several 3F-equipped Cruisers in need of York brackets, too...just none in Phoenix....

Let me see who I can come up with!

Thanks a lot, I appreciate it!

Henry,

Build a CO2 tank and forget about it.

There is a guy here in town that sells a knock off 10# new bottle with 120 psi fixed regulator and a hose for $200.

Let me know and I will get you his name.

Cool! Thanks, Nolen. I was thinking today that when I go to 37's the problem is going to get worse, I nearly fried that little gas station compressor at Paragon last week, it was smoking! :)

I was wondering how long it would take before somebody rec'd going to a gas supply/welding house and getting CO2 instead of 02 or air. CO2 is basically inert, and will actually kill a fire (read: accident)

Using air or worse, O2, and you are riding around with a bomb in your cruzah

Henry,

There was a group of us that got Tanks and regulators from Cramer Decker Supply in Calif.If you want, call Cramer-Decker at 1-800-752-4579 after 9:00am PST and ask for Paul Cramer. Tell him that you are with the Toyota LandCruiser Association group , tell him your needs and I'm sure he'll accommodate. $106 for the 10# Alum/ cylinder and $131 for the 20#..........delivered complete with regulator to your door. I can e-mail pics direct to you if you want. I don't have a red star or I'd post here.

E=mail me if you need anymore info.

bennet thats an awsome price:eek:
i was going to say fli-n-hi here sells complete co2 air tanks for $150 but bennets got that price beat!!!
i went with OBA for a couple reasons, one guy in my little group had a tank, so that was covered, so i went with the york cause i can:D also its an endless air supply, good for air mattreses, air potato guns and:blender:
theres alot of air in the co2 tanks though, henry i would go with that just for the ease of it, however my offer stands.

but the best part about the co2 tanks is there is way more volume to use. the co2 is in a liquid form and will fill many more tires than a air tank. and that is a smoking deal bennett

I'm very satisifed with my DIY CO2 tank. It uses a 150 psi fixed spring regulator, no guages or adjustment. Simple. About $30 for the regulator. Add an aluminum tank, some hose and you're done. A couple of advantages are higher pressure good for seating beads (in theory I haven't done it yet.) And, it can be easily moved between my two cruisers.

That said, I'd like to have an endless air supply for l o n g trips and I hate being stingy about sharing my finite supply. But, I'm pulley challenged and don't want to give up PS, AC or smog pumps. Also, the engine compartments are FULL especially with dual batteries. I'd like a strong electric ala Thomas or the electric motor powered York but they are big. I'm not sure were I would put it. I've thought about a bumper mounted system in lieu of a winch, under body mounted subject to submerging, but nothing looks good yet.

Meantime, the CO2 works great. Plus, if you wheel with others who have Yorks....

Hey Bennet email me the pics and I'll post them.:D

Sloan... I will shoot the pics later, I am at another computer now.

bennett

Copy that, pics to follow soon.:D

Sloan, I sent the pics.
Just a FYI guys,
I went to have my tank filled and while I was at the fire extinguisher place gettin filled the guy asks " how much you pay for the tank" I said over a hundred. Guy says too bad I could have sold you a used setup for $40. Next day my buddy went down and bought one for his mig welder. 40 bones filled.:eek: :eek: There always a better deal eh?
NOTE... the pics sloan is posting are of the smaller tank setup! $106
Here is a link to the static pressure regulator used in this setup...
the #103.
http://www.williamsballoons.com/co2_regulators.htm
I was worried about not having a gauge but figured I knock it off anyway. The gauge option is not much$$.You can tell how much you have left in the tank by weight. Mine is 47lbs. full . #20 tank.


bennett

Sorry about the wait, my computer was having operator difficulties.:D

Regulator setup up close.

And the whole thing mounted. Did you guys fab up the mounts or did you purchase them?

As far as the mount goes... here is an e-mail I received from Jody Potter(lcml) on tank mounts. I am not sure that many ordered mounts during the process. Feel free to use it as I think it's the best buy around.

"LHR Services in
Houston, TX. They have a better price I
think everything would go smoother if you ordered them directly from LHR Services. Their 10# tank brackets (model 620T) are $24.50. Their 20#tank brackets (model 620U) are $31.20. Shipping for either is approx.$8/ea. depending on where you are from Houston, TX. If you live in or near a big city you can probably look up a fire and safety store that refills fire extinguishers and they will have them there. You need a 7"
bracket for a 10# tank and a 8" bracket for a 20# tank. Here's LHR Services URL:
http://www.lhrservices.com/fire_fighting_equipment/extinguisher_brackets.htm

Please ask for Mike Thackery at extension 23 and tell him you are with the
Toyota Land Cruiser Association. He'll know, he's a Toyota man himself."

Very nice!

Note:
Just so no one gets the wrong idea from the picture, the CO2 tank must be vertical when using it. Horizontal is fine for storage or transport, just be sure to stand it up to get gas instead of liquid CO2.

I carry mine secured in a drawer. Then stand it up and screw on the regulator when I need it:
http://home.off-road.com/~cruiserhead/co2tank/stowed.jpg

:beer:

Henry I fabbed up a york mount on my 350 that is pretty elaborate so im sure one could be made for you 3f. Id spend the money to get an engine mounted york. I like the electric / york idea but its pretty spendy and sort of big. Looks like the whole kit for a tj from kilby is 200 bucks so I think paying to have it custom fabbed would be cheaper then this or you could modify buy one and modify it.

Just throwing out thoughts.

I used my york again this weekend and loved it. I got the york for free so I couldn't argue a bit. And I never have to be stingy about air.

thanks,

arndog

No argument there, Arndog, the problem is getting someone to fabricate it, it's a lot harder than it sounds. For one, I'm on the East Coast (i.e. fabrication hell), and my Cruiser is a daily driver, so I can't afford to leave it somewhere to get measured. Maybe when I move to Texas this summer...

Henry, I'm gonna go with the Nolen vote and reccomend a CO2 tank. I just got mine for a screamin' deal about a month ago. One of the guys in our club head of security for one of the local Marriott Hotels and noticed a bunch of beverage tanks that had been sitting at the hotel for a LONG time. He snagged a few and I was lucky to get one of them AT NO CHARGE. Paid a total of $60 for hydrotest, fill, and adjustable regulator. Paid an additional $30 for hose and all fittings. Add another $30-40 for a good bracket. I got mine from a fire extinguisher place in Nebraska and your done. So for $100 I got my cheapo Powertank.

All I can say is It's been awesome! Moab was nice to be able fill up right at the end of the trail instead of going to the stupid Philips station and waiting in line for everyone else to fill up. Also, the tank is FAST! I've been doing all 4 tires from 8psi to 25 psi in less that 60 sec. per tire.

If I can figure out how to fit one in my 40, I think you should be able to find a place in that big wagon ;)

Mine is a 20# tank so it's bit larger but it should last through 40 fillings of all 4 tires. I think it'll take me close to a year to go through a full tank, and that's if I use it A LOT! I can handle $12 for a refill once a year.

GO for the CO2!!!

Here's a couple of shots of mine.

http://user.netomia.com/Box%20Rocket/airtank.jpg

http://user.netomia.com/Box%20Rocket/airtank2.jpg

Even though I don't have air tools, the adjustable regulator is nice so a few of those guys in our club that do have tools can use the tank if neccessary on the trail.

If you run air tools, do you need to run an evaporator?

Not sure to be honest with you. I plan on looking into that but since I don't have air tools of my own, I didn't worry about it.

Can someone here tell me if I need an evaporator?

Thanks, Adam. I still favor the York OBA setup, but the bracket is the sticking point. I also don't have a good place for it inside the truck, but I guess I could accomodate...we'll see.

henry, why not wait on it if your going to texas?? you can probly get a york mount and everything you need fabbed there, or you can make a trip to AZ, i would be more than happy to fab a mount for you.

sloan, adamto, no you dont need an evaporator,i mean you could, it wont hurt, but thats really only required for painting, besides as i understand it, your really getting a pure gas out the tank verticle.

Thanks, Rhino, I think I *will* wait on it. If I can get it fabbed in TX fine, if not, you better believe I'm planning on going back to AZ sometime and wheeling some of my favorite trails. I have a recurring dream about Martinez Canyon, and want to try Raw Deal...

martinez canyon is great, specially the view from the top, i have gone down 4 levels in the mine too, found a little hole down on the 3rd that led into the 4th.
rumors are flying that the gov. will be closing the canyon to motor vehicles, i was there one w/e when they came out to look at damage graffitti and general condition of the area specially the buildings. i talked with them a while and they were happy with the wheelers overall taking care of the area, i dont know whats up, its just rumored and he wasnt saying anything for sure.

I wound this electric compressor called flash 12/24 made by Fini.
I read that they use them on Iceland so they should be good.
http://www.bruxo.se/Bilder/prof4.gif

:flipoff2:
Henry!

Talk to Simmons about a bracket. I think he has his mounted up through a supercharger pulley and he has a different engine, BUT:flipoff2: , he also has seen a ton of guys with the Yorks (I believe he has, but no guarantees).

Personally, I vote for CO2. Yes, I know it's a fixed supply, but I've used it with air tools for a whole weekend one time when the compressor was shot. Also the speed is incredible... now you may not think speed is important... but last Friday when at PAP, I got a call that the wife was rushed to the hospital.... well, I got my 36" TSL's aired up in just a few minutes then drove 100-110 mph to NJ.

I usually carry 2 tanks if I'm going to something like CMCC, but with the ARB lockers and compressor, I always have an emergency back up for air if needed.

Now I just need to figure out how to fire the lockers using a little CO2 canister like what's used for air guns. Figure that should be even faster than the ARB compressor.

:flipoff2:

Mike
yourlandcruiser.com (http://www.yourlandcruiser.com)

Gotta chime in again about the benefits of CO2.
Since I have had my CO2 tank for a few weeks I can tell you it was one of the better items I have purchased. Yesterday intead of hauling a compressor around to a rental unit , I used the C02 tank to supply air to my sheetrock texture machine and blew texture on two rooms and a hallway. I was always waiting for my old compressor to keep up before.Today I will be doing the finish work and it runs my nailguns flawlessly.

Vote CO2

Mike, Lance told me that they didn't get involved with brackets! :(

If I can figure out a way to mount the CO2 tank outside of the truck, I may do that, but I still prefer the flexibility of a York. And by the way, I aired up one of my 35's in Moab from 0 PSI to 35 PSI in a very short time with a York mounted on Uncle Ben's FJ40.

Henry,

Lance is small in size. Tell him you'll bend him into a bracket.

All kidding aside, actually I wasn't thinking of having them fab you up something, but thought they may have seen something so that they could at least tell you how it was done.

Other than that, no ideas.

Mike

The actual bracket won't be hard to make, it's mostly measurement and making sure everytthing clears. I only have my alternator (low mount) on that side of the engine anyway, so I know I have plenty of space for a York.