school me on dual shield flux

[45acp]

Okay, im running low on my last spool of .30 flux core and im thinking about going dual shield. The welder is a Hoboart 140. I assume i need a bottle of 100% CO2. Does dual shield really spatter that much less than straight flux? Does it have any affect on penetration like MIG vs. flux? What type of wire should i get for general garage fab work/truck building? I assume i run the same polarity as flux?

[Static-XJ]

Smallest dualshield I've heard of is .035. I don't think a 140 amp machine could handle it.

I use .045 Tripple7 E71T-M a lot at work. Generally 28-30v, 400-450ipm, 220-240 amps. It's in spray transfer at those settings, virtually zero spatter. Slag pratically chips itself if you do it right. Whisper quiet too. Hit it with a wire brush on a grinder to clean up the smoke. Dualshield runs DCEP, same as hardwire. I've always used it with C25, never tried any other gas.

I have used it as low as 23v for thinner stuff and the rare uphill work, it's globular transfer in that range and throws off lots of spatter.

With a Hobart 140, I think an .030 self shielded flux core, or .024 hardwire with 100% CO2 would be a better choice.

Unless I'm welding parts thinner than 1/4", I'd much rather be using dualshield than hardwire.

[45acp]

So, i could use a spool of E71T-GS like i already use now and just run 100% CO2 over that?

[85f150dsel]

Smallest dualshield I've heard of is .035. I don't think a 140 amp machine could handle it.


I'll admit i don't have a clue about dualshield and thats why I'm asking but how come you don't think a 140 will handle the .035 wire?

Does it take more heat/amp that the standard 75/25 setup with .035. What i'm trying to say is that I almost always run .035 in my 130 amp miller and have no issues, but i am using the 75/25 gas setup.

[Wicked_S10]

Couple of things I found out yesterday when I went to my local airgas. I was going to buy a small spool of dual shield to try it out since there is so much buzz on here about it right now. #1) The smallest spool of .035 that they could get at my local airgas was 33lbs. This is much to large for a 110 machine. I have a MM 251 and can run up to 44lb spools, but the dual shield .035 wire lists at almost $6 per/lb and they told me that they would sell me a spool for $4.xx a pound. About 4 times the cost over solid wire. #2) they can get 10lb spools of .045, and the .045 is actually a quite a bit cheaper than .035, about $3 per pound was the quoted price for me. I believe a 10lb spool is still too big for you guys with the little 130amp machines. The other draw back of going .045 was I was going to have to buy new drive rollers, and a bigger liner for my gun to run it.

Since dual shield is ultimately engineered for high deposition, high penetration, heavy steel aplications, I said screw it, I wasn't going to sink a couple of hundered dollars into something I would rarely use, not to mention the time switching back and forth between wires and associated components just to weld my heavier projects with dual shield, and then back to solid wire for lighter projects, and also for the $ savings.

Also, flux core wire and dual shield wire are different critters. And dual shields are engineered for a specific type of shielding gas. Wire designed to run w/ straight CO2 should not be uses with C25 and visa versa.

I will probably eventually spring for the .045 stuff for my machine, but for now, it looked like a waste of money, just to see how it preforms. I also think that all of you guys that are wanting to try this, just to get better penatration out of a 130amp machine, should serriously consider upgradeing welders. I know alot of people will dissagree, but the 130 amp welders are nearly useless in my book. I had MM135, I hated it, and the best way to get better penetration and weld thicker metals, is increase your current and voltage, and most of the work we do is beyond or at the upper limits of the little 110 machines. Get a bigger welder!

[45acp]

I also think that all of you guys that are wanting to try this, just to get better penatration out of a 130amp machine, should serriously consider upgradeing welders. I know alot of people will dissagree, but the 130 amp welders are nearly useless in my book. I had MM135, I hated it, and the best way to get better penetration and weld thicker metals, is increase your current and voltage, and most of the work we do is beyond or at the upper limits of the little 110 machines. Get a bigger welder!I would like to have a bigger welder, but i can weld .25" with a single pass on 30 flux core with what i have. I honestly dont have that much .25" wall stuff on my rig other than sliders, winch mount, and TC crossmember. Most everything is either 3/16" or rollcage tubing which is 1/8".

[thelbz]

Never seen anyone use dual shield in there garage unless they were using it for some heavy steel fab. I have used it at my old job for welding 1/2" + . I don't think it would be practical for anything thinner due to the fact it has verry high penetration and just doesn't seem necessary

[thelbz]

Never seen anyone use dual shield in there garage unless they were using it for some heavy steel fab. I have used it at my old job for welding 1/2" + . I don't think it would be practical for anything thinner due to the fact it has verry high penetration and just doesn't seem necessary

[Static-XJ]

I'll admit i don't have a clue about dualshield and thats why I'm asking but how come you don't think a 140 will handle the .035 wire?

Does it take more heat/amp that the standard 75/25 setup with .035. What i'm trying to say is that I almost always run .035 in my 130 amp miller and have no issues, but i am using the 75/25 gas setup.
Because a Hobart 140 at 140 amps will only be putting out around 16.5 volts. ESAB lists thier .035 dualshiled at a low range of 130a/22v. The Hobart 140 looks like it'll do around 75a at 22v.

[85f150dsel]

ahh that clears things up, i never really thought about the voltage thing. thanks man