Building a shop. Need Input!!

[cisco]

Posted thin in Gen chit-chat and got redirected here.

I am in the planning stages of building a shop behind my house. I am looking for ideas. I know alot of people on here have shops and have likes and dislike about them. I am talking about the buiding itself. Not whats inside. For example, do i use garage doors, sliding doors, swing out doors? How tall do i make it? What is the perfect size? (I was thinking 30ft x 30ft). I would like to be able to pull a motor from a hoist on a rafter. Should i use metal for the rafters and the main structure or are wood rafters and 2x4 walls okay? Should i build it with stud walls or would coragated(sp?) tin be better? If you have pics of what you have that would be great. I am trying to keep from one day saying, "Man, i wish i had....." So tell me what aspect of your shop do you love and what you hate and what you would redo if ya could. And this will totally be for my jeeps (2) and working on them. Nothing else!!

[D60]

Trust me, pull one large project vehicle or two smaller (like Jeeps) project vehicles into a 30x30, then throw in benches, welders, press, tools, shelving and everything else and you'll be saying you wish you had built it larger.

It sounds like you're open to building it bigger, so I would if you can afford it.

Allow enough height for a potential 2 post lift, preferably 12' min

Construction depends upon what you like and local prices. I prefer steel as much as possible, I find it easier to work on, beat on, add on, weld on, attach to and modify - - and it won't burn :D. If you're more comfortable w wood or it's cheaper, go for it.

[cisco]

Trust me, pull one large project vehicle or two smaller (like Jeeps) project vehicles into a 30x30, then throw in benches, welders, press, tools, shelving and everything else and you'll be saying you wish you had built it larger.

It sounds like you're open to building it bigger, so I would if you can afford it.

Allow enough height for a potential 2 post lift, preferably 12' min

Construction depends upon what you like and local prices. I prefer steel as much as possible, I find it easier to work on, beat on, add on, weld on, attach to and modify - - and it won't burn :D. If you're more comfortable w wood or it's cheaper, go for it.

Thanks for the help. Couple of question?

----I probably cannot go bigger than 30 ft wide because of an oak tree that is over 100yrs and i am unwilling to cut it down. i could go longer though, like 40 to 45 feet. is that worth it?

-- do you think 2 wooden trusses back to back would support an engine? I have built houses in the past and my father is a carpenter, so wood would be more feasible for me, but i am open to metal trusses and posts IF I have too in order to be able to pull a motor.

-- I like the idea of a 2 post lift somewhere in the future, i assume 12' would accomadate this?

-- What about doors? Garage doors will be expensive. would you prefer swing out or sliding?

thnaks for the help

[studlybilly]

Thanks for the help. Couple of question?

----I probably cannot go bigger than 30 ft wide because of an oak tree that is over 100yrs and i am unwilling to cut it down. i could go longer though, like 40 to 45 feet. is that worth it?

-- do you think 2 wooden trusses back to back would support an engine? I have built houses in the past and my father is a carpenter, so wood would be more feasible for me, but i am open to metal trusses and posts IF I have too in order to be able to pull a motor.

-- I like the idea of a 2 post lift somewhere in the future, i assume 12' would accomadate this?

-- What about doors? Garage doors will be expensive. would you prefer swing out or sliding?

thnaks for the help

My new house is getting a 30'x25' steel building with 12.5'H sidewall and 16.5'H peak. 20'w x 12'H roll-up door. Only costing me $8000, although it's one of those "put it together yourself" ones, still cheap considering. As far as room this is merely for my durango alone so...

[tsm1mt]

My mom built a 30x30.. it was alright.

Shoulda gone deeper. Try to imagine wanting to park two rigs deep, just because. A few more feet and you could do it.

30x40 would be a good size.

If you buy a crew-cab long-box tow-rig, it's going to be 20'+ long.. if you need to pull the motor, you'll need ~6' in front of it, so 26' in depth right there. Hope you didn't put a workbench in front of that bay if it's only 30' deep.

But 40'? That's 10' of bench and tool room easily. Room enough for an engine on a stand between the crewcab and the workbenches, and probably still have room to pull the engine.

And, like I said, you could put two rigs in nose to nose if you needed to.

10' if you won't do a lift, 12 or 14 if you'll get a lift. With it only 30' wide, that poses problems for me - you need the lift in a spot such that you can work on stuff on the lift, and stuff NOT on the lift, without the lift being in the way.

Since I live in Montana, I'd look at only raising the roof where I needed it for the lift (cathedral ceiling?), so I could avoid heating all of that dead airspace I'm not using.

[CragRat]

This (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=531628)is the one I am building right now.
Sounds like what you are looking for.
If you are in the Los Angeles area, you are welcome to come see it.
Dave

[D60]

-more length is absolutely worth it. One of my bays is a drive thru, if I pull my *regular* cab F350 in w my 18' trailer hooked up you've just got maybe 3 to 4' on either end, which is just enough to comfortably walk around. I've never completely measured the clearance here, but I'm not certain this would fit in a 40' deep shop; if so it'd be a matter of using every available inch. With a longer pickup it'll only get worse.

-I can't comment on loads that wood framing could sustain. As for your concerns about pulling a motor, just build a rolling gantry crane. Couple threads around here w pics

-overhead garage doors are fine. Roll-up doors are kinda cool, too, but very spendy. Otherwise I'd probably take sliding over swing-out.

[ironpig70]

heres my take on doors.

sliding doors are either open or closed cause leaving a crack in the middle serves real no purpose. and will be pretty heavy and when open will block something. say you have 2 sliding doors then you have to figure out how to have booth sets open at once.


swing out down side is they are also either open or closed and again heavy and a big "sail" when windy. also lets say you had a 12' wide opening thats 2 6' doors. as such you must keep a 6' opening in front of the doors.

roll ups yeah they are more money but the bennies are simple. roll the door up and stick a 4x4 block under it when you paint or when its cold and use a fan to vent the place. can put a rig right up to the door and work on it in a week or two rather than putting a rig back 7' opening the door then moving said rig. when its windy they are easy to open and easy to close. they don't interfere with the other doors.

as for lenght take all the space that you can get. a 30x40 gives you 300 extra sq ft or 1/3 more space. to me 1/3 of anything is a good start. at 45 ft long thats even better.

[Todd W]

Make it as wide and as long as you can afford/have room for.

You can always put your "work bench" in the back etc.. when you start adding tools, boxes, welders, plasmas, torches, bandsaws, cut-offs, multiple work-stations, etc it adds up QUICK.

[cj7jeep81]

one other comment on doors. not sure where you are, but if you get snow, the sliding doors will suck. snow and ice will get packed up on teh rails, and then you have a hell of a time opening them. Also if weeds or anything grow up, that can block them as well.
Swing out doors would also be a pain in snow, as you'd have to clear all the snow in front of them in order to open the doors.
If you don't get snow where you are, may not be as much of a problem.

[cisco]

Well, i went out with a tape and some paint to mark off were I wanted my shop yesterday. I am not very happy. Zoning laws were I live say I cannot build closer than 7 feet to the property line. So between that and the oak I refuse to cut down I can only fit 25 feet worth of width. I can go longer but only to about 40 feet. So I am pretty bummed about that. This will house only one jeep though. I have a 2 car carport for mine and my wife's daily driver. I am leaning toward sliding doors rather than swing open. Ido not think roll up will fit into the budget. Hell, I am not even sure it is worth it any more. Thoughts?

[CragRat]

What area do you live in ?

[cisco]

What area do you live in ?

I am in the great state of Arkansas!! I would love to see your shop but its a long drive!!

We average less than 1 foot of snow per year. The thing with the oak tree is we are having a huge problem with the red oak bore. It is a bug that is basically killing off all the old growth oaks. So cutting down the oak is NOT an option. Plus my wife would promptly cut off my nuts if i cut down her tree!!!

[ironpig70]

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=277173&stc=1&d=1165942702


http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=277174&stc=1&d=1165942702



i feel your pain on the oak. heres the oak i had to remove from my place. the limb(1st pic bare spot) just came off one morning about 630 am. the previous night we walked in/around this area. and as you can see my daughter(tallest one) is about 4'. this was an old growth tree about 200 and some years old. so if your tree is dying i'd control fall it rather than it come down on a rig/shop or worse of all a loved one.

[cisco]

i feel your pain on the oak. heres the oak i had to remove from my place. the limb(1st pic bare spot) just came off one morning about 630 am. the previous night we walked in/around this area. and as you can see my daughter(tallest one) is about 4'. this was an old growth tree about 200 and some years old. so if your tree is dying i'd control fall it rather than it come down on a rig/shop or worse of all a loved one.


The tree is in great health. I just do not want to cut it down for a shop. i'd rather build a smaller shop or no shop.

[cj7jeep81]

one thing also to keep in mind is if you build a shop, watch out that you are doing a bunch of cutting/digging right by the roots. it would really suck to build a shop smaller due to the oak, but end up killing the oak with a lot of construction damage.

[cisco]

one thing also to keep in mind is if you build a shop, watch out that you are doing a bunch of cutting/digging right by the roots. it would really suck to build a shop smaller due to the oak, but end up killing the oak with a lot of construction damage.

thats good advice!!! Thanks

[72fj40]

It's ussually a pain and time consuming, but I'm sure you can try to get a Variance so that you can build closer to your property line.

[jdrocks]

oaks are tough to work around without killing them. the common practice is to barricade at the canopy line for anything saved. otherwise a dead tree. it may take 5 years. tree or shop-not both.

[tonka22]

wood is plenty strong for lifting the trick is to use a 6*6 across 4 rafters to help spread the load, you can at the time of build add a steel chanel and cran across the roof

[Reflexx]

a lot of good info:

www.garagejournal.com

[FF3PM]

For one Jeep I bet 25x40 will do just fine. I have a 25x60 barn and wish it was wider because I have too many trucks and work on a few at a time.
I had sliding doors on both ends of my shop, winter is a PITA not the tracks but the drifts on the ground preventing the doors from sliding. They are not real secure from theft or valdalism. They are also not very weather tight rain, snow, and wind blow in all the time. I have to keep things about 5-6' back from the doors to keep things dry depending on which way the wind blows the rain. I just installed an overhead garage door on one end, it is great! I will be saving up for another for the other end now. If you heat your shop seriously consider in the floor radiant heat. If you plan on putting a load like a hoist under a truss then get an engineer to design the truss. Regular trusses are not meant to bear a load from its underside. But personally I would stick build it. Electric I would use 200A 230V as a minimum. If 3ph electric is easily available I would get it.

[D60]

For one Jeep I bet 25x40 will do just fine.

I agree. 25x40 is still way better than nothing, and you'll work in methods to make the most efficient use of your space.

Your zoning is a bit more lenient; here it's 10' from the property line. Maybe you can even go up and fit a loft in part of the shop?

[Richard]

check with your city , you might not be able to build within the drip line of the oak tree

[Proeliator]

I built mine at 14" to the rafters, and I'm glad I did. That way you can have at least one tall bay for a lift or setup to pull a motor, and then over my main workspace area I built a loft overhead for storage.

The other thing is, while 9' w is pretty common for a single garage door, if you ARE putting in a single make sure its at least 10' w. Mine is 10' tall as well and I'm glad I went that route. Also, I'd go with a rollup door, or even a standard over a sliding. They seal better and aren't a pain when it snows.

[u2slow]

My family is building a 60x72' woodframe building with mezzanine. 18' to bottom of trusses. 2x RV bays, double-deep 3 car garage, and 2 bay shop area. Seeing how this thing is shaping up.....

1) go with steel building.

2) get your electrical & plumbing figured out beforehand so you can rough-in conduits & pipes in the slab.

3) Get true roll-up doors (roll onto a spindle). Sectional tracked doors seem great until you notice the ceiling space they take up - which restricts your lighting arrangement, and any sort of hoisting apparatus you may want.

[cisco]

This is all good info. Thanks. I am not sure what to do. It looks like because of small yard space and zoning laws I am going to be limited to 25'x30'. I am leaning towards the thought, "well thats better than nothing". Remember I only will store one vehicle in it. I have a 2 car carport, already. And this is probably my only chance to ever have a shop (getting a money windfall from uncle sam). Thoughts?

[Pavemen]

dont have to build square ya know. is the oak positioned so that you can simply build around it?

[cisco]

dont have to build square ya know. is the oak positioned so that you can simply build around it?


I never thought about that. Not sure if it would work. I am currently contemplating building the shop on the other side of the yard.

[rocknbronco]

Thats would be kinda small in my opinion I am not saying it wont work but you might want to build a second level over one bay if you can for storage and parts ect.Also my truck wouldnt fit in there its 28' so take than in mind when the cold weather hits and you need to work on somethings fairly major if you have a long wheel base truck for your tow rig.I am looking to build my own shop but am looking at a 60X100 or more becasue I have had two shops before and know the limits of working in tight quarters it sucks but can be done.just design it then mark it out with string and pull your rig(s) in there and see how much space you will have.

[cj7jeep81]

My old garage was 24'x32', with two normal doors and one sliding. I was able to work on my jeep in there fairly easily, but my shortbed chevy was a little tight (couldn't walk behind it because it was up to the door) with the workbench against the opposite wall.

[BorgDog]

I would be so happy to have 25x30. I have a 24x24 garage/shop that I have to park my wifes car in as well, meaning I have very little room for anything. If you need to insulate and heat then wood frame is the way to go, much easier to accomplish with standard materials. Roll up doors if you can possibly afford it, otherwise sliders over swing out.

[BarrelRoll]

The pirate mentality is every where, gota have a d60, gota have a 1 ton CTD to tow a sami, gota have a 100'X100' shop to build a rig. A garage is better then no garage 99.9% of the time. I have a 24x24 that usually has 2 rigs in it getting worked on at once, i fabbed up a 110" wheel base leaf sprung buggy (pretty damn long) in that shop with a yj in the other, it was tight but doable. It's tight and we don't keep many parts in it but it works. I would love to have that shop to my self, lay it out to have "rig bay" and 1 fab bay. You can do a lot with a small space if you are resourceful and plan it out. Another trick we have to working in our shop is keeping parts outside the shop, maybe build your 25x30 and then a 10x20 (or make it 25 to keep 24' sticks of steel if you get them in your area) shed for storage of parts, your air compressor (pipe the air to your shop), and tools you don't use very often like your cherry picker, engine stand, even could keep the parts washer in the shed.

[rocknbronco]

The pirate mentality is every where, gota have a d60, gota have a 1 ton CTD to tow a sami, gota have a 100'X100' shop to build a rig. A garage is better then no garage 99.9% of the time. I have a 24x24 that usually has 2 rigs in it getting worked on at once, i fabbed up a 110" wheel base leaf sprung buggy (pretty damn long) in that shop with a yj in the other, it was tight but doable. It's tight and we don't keep many parts in it but it works. I would love to have that shop to my self, lay it out to have "rig bay" and 1 fab bay. You can do a lot with a small space if you are resourceful and plan it out. Another trick we have to working in our shop is keeping parts outside the shop, maybe build your 25x30 and then a 10x20 (or make it 25 to keep 24' sticks of steel if you get them in your area) shed for storage of parts, your air compressor (pipe the air to your shop), and tools you don't use very often like your cherry picker, engine stand, even could keep the parts washer in the shed.

Well bigger sand boxs are more fun and at home I work out of a 25 by 30 two car gargage with one non moving 65 Mustang I spend two days cleaning things that had been left by the prevoius owner and my wifes family I am glad to be out of the driveway thats for sure.