So, I chose these for several reasons and I am reasonably happy. However, out of the 6 lights I have in the shop, 3 of them really hate the cold. So much, they don't even come on. If it's 70 degrees in the shop, they all pretty much come on, although one of them is cranky even at that temp. Once it dips down to 50, I get 3 of them to come on fairly consistantly, the others, no way no how.

So here's the question - why? And what can I do to fix it?

I dig the lights and you can't beat the color spectrum, but it's a PITA if I get in the back corner where the tool box is and can't see the fuggin socket size because the light isn't working.

Ken

Carry a small LED flashlight with you at all times.

:laughing:

It sounds like your ballasts aren't energizing those bulbs.

Funny, but not. I just about have to resort to that.

I was kind of afraid of that. May as well buy new fixtures for the price of a ballast. :eek:

We put 6 metal halides in my buddies shop a few years ago. They work awesome, and I loved the light, but the power draw for thos critters is amazing. I believe it is somwhere around 30-40 amps to run them all. We live in michigan, and it gets well bellow 0 at times, the lights always fire, they just take a lot longer when it is that cold.

I was going to put metal halides in my shop when I built it, but after thinking about the power draw for a while, I finally descided to try the 200W florecent bulbs for incadescent sockets (screw in type, with built in ballast) I put 15 in my shop, and they are far brighter, and more uniform light than the metal halides, as an added bonus they are not your typical blue florescent color, but more yellow, and with all of them running they only pull about 10 amps. I got the bulbs at home depot, they were about $10 a piece, and they have a 7 year warranty which home depot will honor. I have had the ballasts go bad on several due to the amount of metal dust in my shop, but HD keeps replaceing them for me. They also take a little bit of time to start in cold weather, but no where near as long as the metal halides.

Just somehting to consider.

Later,
Jason

Wow. I have nothing helpful to add, but the past few days if we get into the mid 40's in the sun it feels warm to me. 50 would be awesome. Clearly something ain't right.

If it were me, I'd crawl up there and see who made them and type their name into the internet to get a phone #. Talk to their tech line and see what they can come up with.

Metal Halide yields more lumens per watt than fluorescent. If you're drawing 1/4 the wattage for more light on fluorescent, .... your MHs are not working properly. Lamp light-output also diminishes with age. My rule of thumb is if I can look directly into a 400W MH and not go blind - its time to re-lamp. :laughing:

Pulse-start MH is the new thing. Faster starting, faster restart, better output, etc. I imagine old fixtures can be retrofitted - the conversion from HPS to MH with a ballast kit is cake.

Fluorescents come in a broad range of colour temperature... say 3500K is warm/yellow, whereas 6500K is cold/blue.

here's some info on lighting...
http://tristate.apogee.net/lite/graphics/lchart.jpg

Is that lumens per watt as in power used, or is it lumens per watt that the bulb is rated at. Florescents are rated much higher in the "wattage of light" produced, than the actual current draw. The 200 watt bulbs I use, only use 27 watts of power (according to the packageing). That is ~.25 amps per light. The metal halides, which if I am not mistaken have a 500 watt bulb, and the tags on the ballast say 5amps at 220 volts. You do the math, 6 at 5 amps is 30 amps total current draw for 3000 watts of light output, and my 15 florescents draw around 4-5 amps for a total of 3000 watts of light output. Now, granted I have never measured their actual current draw, and am basing this all off the company specs, but his power bill is consistently higher than my own, and I spend alot more time working out in my shop.

His bulbs were new a year ago, and the fixtures were surplus, so who knows the condition of the ballasts, but we both agree that my shop seems brighter. This may be due to the fact that I have more bulbs and the light dispurses better. But regardless of which is brighter, and not even by much by looking at your chart, mine s still far cheaper to run.

Later,
Jason

lumens per watt = light output per unit of power consumed.

The incandescent light bulb has forever wrecked the distinction between lumens and watts :D

27W * 15 = 405W

500W * 6 = 3000W

MH typically puts out ~50% more light for the same wattage, so call it "4500W" to make an apples-to-apples comparison. Now if everything is working 100% as-new you should have over 11x more light with the MH. :eek:

Light distribution is critical. 6 open-steel-reflector highbays on a low ceiling is gonna suck. 15 points of light with some kind of refraction lens (flood style packaging?) will give much more even light.

Yours *IS* cheaper to run, but for the power your buddy puts into lighting, he should be wearing welding goggles in his shop fulltime! :laughing:

The shops I've worked in/on that have the best lighting have a mixture. MH & HPS Highbays throw out lots of light for very few fixtures to hang.

Then fluorescents aimed either sideways or at a 45* from the walls to knock down the shadows. This is also "instant" light for a pitch-dark shop when you just need to grab something quick.... don't have to wait for the lights to come up.

Kendo,

Can you open one up and post a picture?

I have 175W MH's in the shop. Currently I only use 3 of them, Plenty bright! I tend to work only one side of the 30 x 50' shop, lights are 14' overhead.

Capacitors can be tempermental with cold temps.

Source of Cap's & Ignitors:
http://www.pfolighting.com/ProductList-26-0-Capacitors.And.Ignitors.html

In my case local surplus electronics store had the caps I needed for $4 each. My ignitor was fine. (Edit, need to look... not sure if mine have ignitors) Hint... if you see ANY oil from the old caps, drop them off at the local "HAZMAT" collection center.

EDIT: Good tech source of info... didn't realize how many different MH systems were out there! http://www.venturelighting.com/Technical_Center.html

Tom

All very good info!!

I am using the 175W variety, not classified as "bay" lighting per se'. I bought them from Tek Supply on a closeout deal, so I have a feeling they may have been returns or possibly damaged in shipment anyway. For the price I paid ($39 each) I can afford to toss a new capacitor in there to see if that solves the probelm. I don't think it's the transformer, because I can hear them buzz when I get close.

I'll see if I can get a shot of the inside of one of the fixtures.

Thanks for the links Tom, good source for those caps at a reasonable price!

Ken

I put 6 400W MH's in my shop when I built it. 40x64, in Michigan. They all start down to -20F in my shop no problem. So bright it looks like we're playing with anti-matter in there when the covers are off. I think your lights are busted. I got mine surplus from a guy in Indy who advertises on ebay. Joe something. It was a good deal for $60 each with new bulbs.

Fwiw, if you're looking for a cheap MH or hps setup...check police auction sites. You can pick up a 400-1000+w setup for next to nothing. They take them from growers, then of course stoners are too paranoid to buy them from a police auction...so you're left with a $500 light for $30.