im just getting into the 4x4 world and im trying to figure out the best band for my buck. I have a 1993 xj ,a 1978 ford f150 and can easyely get a toyota. What is the best and will let me have to most fun on the trails. i usualy hang with my freinds who have a Internation harvester, 2 toyotas and a 1993 XJ.

Here is a loaded question, ill take a stab.

In high school everyone purchased solid axle toyota pickups. Then they put lockers in them, bobbed or flat bedded them. Put wagonner 4 inch lift front springs, chevy 52 inch rear springs. Then a winch on the front. I have yet to see where they can not go 5 years later. They have a few thousand invested into them suspension and locker wise, then a good set of tires, and a winch. Solid setup. Get you to the 404 mog axles and 44's stages:-)

I already had a 57 willys wagon and proceded to break everything three times just trying to follow those guys. In retrospect, that was a better way to startup then the route I went. My .2

Here is a loaded question, ill take a stab.

In high school everyone purchased solid axle toyota pickups. Then they put lockers in them, bobbed or flat bedded them. Put wagonner 4 inch lift front springs, chevy 52 inch rear springs. Then a winch on the front. I have yet to see where they can not go 5 years later. They have a few thousand invested into them suspension and locker wise, then a good set of tires, and a winch. Solid setup. Get you to the 404 mog axles and 44's stages:-)

I already had a 57 willys wagon and proceded to break everything three times just trying to follow those guys. In retrospect, that was a better way to startup then the route I went. My .2

i think thats very well put and true to the point,

I beleive they are worth it, what ever money you save by going with a jeep, you will spend 2X that on repairs or parts to make your stock jeep as strong as a stock toyota. the answer to the toyotas 1 weak point (birfs) is 30 spline chromo's from bobby long:grinpimp:

BTW im refering to solid axle rigs, however I still think an ifs toy can hang with a dana 30 any day

BTW im refering to solid axle rigs, however I still think an ifs toy can hang with a dana 30 any day

I don't know about the IFS toyotas, I competed in a local comp a few weeks ago, my 30 held up fine, but there where 4 IFS toyotas with 5 broken birfields.

I don't know about the IFS toyotas, I competed in a local comp a few weeks ago, my 30 held up fine, but there where 4 IFS toyotas with 5 broken birfields.

Interesting I didn't know IFS toyotas came with birfields.:flipoff2: So you compete with a dana 30 :confused: Do you have any pics of these competition obstacles?

the only thing cheaper than a toy is a samurai, but I decided long ago i didn't want a sammy wheelbase. xj-if your going to beat on it you will spend the rest of you life trying to fix cracks in the unibody (since they don't have a frame) Not sure on the f150. oh course i drive a toy

One nice thing about Toyotas, they have a HUUGGE aftermarket following, allowing you to buy just about any damn bolt-on part your heart desires (only the Jeep has a bigger aftermarket for crawling bolt-ons).
Personally I don't see anything special about the truck itself though.
They'll easily go up & over just about anything you point them at... but so will my Ranger. :flipoff2:

I don't know about the IFS toyotas, I competed in a local comp a few weeks ago, my 30 held up fine, but there where 4 IFS toyotas with 5 broken birfields. Oh yeah, my ifs had birfs, high pinion and an e-locker! d-30 killer! dumbass...

I had a shop SAS an Isuzu in 2000. Looking back on it, no regrets. But, A Toy would have been easier, cheaper and better. Advice from An Isuzu owner. Jeeps are not in the same League as Toys.....

BTW im refering to solid axle rigs, however I still think an ifs toy can hang with a dana 30 any day

Wer er er er er erd.:smokin:

ok you got me, they aren't birfs, but whatever the hell ifs toyotas run in the front, I do toyotas, I was just watching them break and no, it was no hardcore comp in the least.

Go for the toyota.
Then slap on a set of 33s and a locker and wheel it like mad.
Once your ready to move up look into
an upgraded birfield http://www.longfieldsuperaxles.com/
a Hysteer kit http://allprooffroad.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=17
a dual transfer case setup http://allprooffroad.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=18
and a set of 5.29 diff gears along with 37s

ok you got me, they aren't birfs, but whatever the hell ifs toyotas run in the front, I do toyotas, I was just watching them break and no, it was no hardcore comp in the least.

u aint the sharpest crayon are ya? :flipoff2:

TOYOTas kick ASS. nuff said. they are the most reliable rig hands down...look at how many are running with 2 or 3 hundred thousand miles! To me reliability is the most important thing i look for in a trail rig

any one who wants to doubt an ifs toy needs to watch this video...there is a little red toyota with a stock ifs front end wheeling claw hammer in johnsons valley...... nuff said... go with the yota.

http://nowhitefenders.com/clawhammer%20final.wmv

I don't know about the IFS toyotas, I competed in a local comp a few weeks ago, my 30 held up fine, but there where 4 IFS toyotas with 5 broken birfields.

Dude... :shaking: You couldnt of planned a dumber statement....:rolleyes:

Dana 30's are trash.... period...... and by the way... Ifs toys dont have birfs...:laughing:

I've never owned one, but there are a lot of advantages...weight is prob the most evident. Everyone wheels these for a reason, it is price. Its like the 87-93 mustang for drag racing... They're the best bang for the buck... The 78 F-150 ain't a bad rig either...44 front 9 rear...hopefully a Np-435 or a t-18 with a np-205...Those are great starter rigs too....maybe just swap the running gear out of one of those... Whatever it is, wheeling costs money....and lots of... no matter what you choose, be prepared to break shit...

get a early model xj with a couple spare axles and you"ll spend less then buyin a yota thats worth a shit i had a yota that would barley get out of it's own way (with a new motor) a yj that was great for anything and a 87 xj with the 4.0 that had plenty of power and was dependable. you will probable break a few front axles when wheeling just look in your local tradeing post and buy a few extra 30's they are trash and everyone knows it so they are cheap, or you can put a 44 under it and never have to worry bout it.

p.s do not get a later model xj b/c alot of the came with either alum. 44 or chrysle 8.5's that you can't even give away they were so horrible.

If you want to save money, don't go 4x4ing period. I own a jeep and like lots of other jeep owners I have turfed everything jeep with the exception of the frame and tub. That will cost you shitloads as well as test your fabrication skills and if you can't fab very well then it will cost you even more. My brother owns a solid axle toy and he can go anywhere I go but didn't have to rebuild his whole rig to do it. Sure he spent lots himself but the only real major change was the dual t cases. Other than that he put a lift, lockers,longfields,heavy duty cv driveshafts and a roll cage and it kicks ass.

and by the way... Ifs toys dont have birfs...:laughing:

So what's the difference between them?
They're both CV joints, and they both go :nuke: with little provocation :flipoff2:

So what's the difference between them?
They're both CV joints, and they both go :nuke: with little provocation :flipoff2:



indeed they will both go boom with the right application of throttle....

By a ranger and put 60s and a doubler on it

Toyotas are fun and don't need a whole lot to be truly offroad-capable. The only downsides are if you enjoy having a powerful motor, or any interior space whatsoever. The 20R/22R/22RE are good for reliability and low-speed torque work, but kind of lose their luster when high RPM's or cubic oomph are called for (mud, sand, highway). There's also the matter of stock-odds being that you'd have to either deal with a carbed motor or IFS, unless you find that single year ('85) when they put the solid axle with the EFI.

XJ's downside is the relatively weak axles for weight and power... power, that is, if it's a 4.0L 6-cyl model. The 4.0L is arguably one of the best motors around in terms of its mix of power, weight, dependability, and durability. If it's a 2.5L 4-cyl, only buy it if it's REALLY cheap because it will be an absolute dog to get up to speed, and the manual tranny with those models is unimpressive. XJ unibodies can actually take a good bit of abuse, and your D30 and D35 (if the rear isn't a 8.25") will go before the unibody does. The D30 a '93 would have (HP, non-CAD, 297x joints) is amongst the strongest representatives of the type. They also need a bit more lifting to clear bigger tires than the Toyota or F150 would.

The '78 is (IMO) one of the best eras for the F150... HP D44 front, 9" rear, and typically pretty stout drivetrain overall. The only obvious downside here is its sheer size. Being the largest in your prospective wheeling group, you may either find yourself kept out of tight two-tracks that the others are taking. The carbed 351M or 400M aren't highly thought of since they're thirsty, heavy, and underpowered for a V8, but they're workable and easily replaced by a 460.

The carbed 351M or 400M aren't highly thought of since they're thirsty, heavy, and underpowered for a V8, but they're workable and easily replaced by a 460.

But you spend a couple bucks on these motors there great. The 400 is a stump puller with nothing more than a cam and intake. Also as stated the love gas.