Generator Poll. Gas, Diesel, Propane or Natural Gas?

[unimogken]

Oh alright, we had a bit of a storm out here in the northwest and theres still alot of people out of power.

So I am going to totally buy a generator and wanted to hear some of Pirates views. If there was a major natural disaster which one would still be running due to available fuel supplies.

[unimogken]

Another question that I have is....

Is it legal to use non-taxed heating oil/diesel to run a diesel generator?

[Murph]

Another question that I have is....

Is it legal to use non-taxed heating oil/diesel to run a diesel generator?

Unless your generator sees pavement, I doubt there'll be a problem...


:flipoff2:


Andy

[jmhinescj]

If your'e gonna use it purely for standby at your house I would think that Nat. Gas, or propane if your house doesn't have Nat. Gas, would be your best choice.

We don't really lose power up here enough for me to justify having a dedicated standby Generator...as a result Iv'e kinda been eyeing that multifuel that Northern sells (I think it's a honda). I was thinkin that since I have a gas stub out right by my breaker box I could wire up a transfer switch, when the power goes out just plug it in and hook it up with a flex line. But I could still use it wheelin and ect. to.

[Hackfabricaton]

If you have natural gas available at your property, then I'd definitely go that route. If you use propane then go that route.

Having went through the big power grid failure, the gas stations won't have power, which means you can't pump any gas/diesel. So, you're gonna have to keep a couple days of fuel on hand. Which is a hassle. And since you never know when the power is going to quit, your gonna have to keep cycling the fuel (burn in something else) so it doesn't go bad.

The gas company rarely turns off the gas, unless there is a leak somewhere.

[Travis Waldher]

I'm going to vote for multi-fuel.

Natural Gas would be nice as the supply is "endless", but in case that's a problem it would be nice to have another option.

I've actually looked at just building my own 40kw generator for the house. I started thinking, ok, I have my 4 cyl gas engine, could I install a propane throttle body over the carb (or gas throttlebody). If so, could I convert the propane one to NG.

[Mechanos]

I'd also have to vote for natural gas (or propane if you don't have NG at the property). Since the gas system is buried, it's not going to suffer from storms (ice, wind, etc.). About the only natural disaster that could rupture of sever gas lines would be an earthquake. If that's a concern for you then perhaps propane is the best bet. You could store large quantities of propane for long periods of time without worrying about the fuel going bad like gas/diesel.

We don't suffer power outages often here, but the last one was due to a nasty ice storm. My power was out for 9 days before they could get it restored. Since it's not a frequent problem, I don't see the need for a dedicated stand-by gen set. I bought a gas powered portable generator to power the house and use it for other things from time to time. If I were to get a dedicated stand-by, it would definately be a natural gas unit.

[JesseA]

LPG fuel'd miller portable. when the power goes out plug the house in. Bonus, you can fab away happily when the power goes out.

If you already have a welder disregard this.

[ironpig70]

i voted propane simple for the fact that you can keep the cylinders full and you have portability if need be. natural gas is nice but if a pipe ruptured you are out of luck. i'm thinking of getting a propane unit and a 100# tank:smokin: this way i'll have plenty of propane in winter and plenty of gas for the bbq come summer.

[u2slow]

I'm gathering info for a standby generator at my folks property.

With diesel you have fuel maintenance, and spill containment issues. Might not be so bad if you store diesel already for other uses, and have some fuel turnover. Natural gas sounds good if you have it available... consider the line will most likely have to be upsized.

Almost all the big names are using automotive gas engines now. Ford V6s are predominant. I'm not sure I have that much faith.:rolleyes: I'd prefer an industrial engine.

I see there's aircooled natural-gas models based on the Deutz 913 series available. :smokin:

http://www.simson-maxwell.com/cgi-bin/engmanual/specsheet_list.cgi?leftnav=Natural%20Gas%20Generat or%20Sets

[waywardfool]

Ditto on the NG if you have it onsite, or propane. I've been working on my family emergency prepardness plans, and generator plan is set to power the whole house, with a 14-day supply calculated at 24 hour per day running at 1/2 load. Propane for me, since no NG at my place. Also putting vented propane fireplace in the house, and that is calculated in to the fuel requirements, too. I'm still hunting my big generator, just missed a 15k propane take-out unit from a radio station for $2k. :(

You can buy tanks rather than having to lease one, and having to deal with minimum annual purchases (usually 1 or 2 tanks per year). Independent propane places here sell both new and used (off-lease) tanks.

Gas or Diesel, you have to worry about fuel life, and use additives such as stabil, and still rotate your supply. As said above, you can't always expect to buy gas down at the corner station. A couple of winters ago, most places were shut down for 4 days straight.

[nissancrawler]

I have an 8? horse craftsman 3600 watt gas one. It's enough to run my 1 hp well pump, furnace, and needed lights at one time. If I have to run the microwave, I make sure either the well pump or furnace isn't running. For the few times I've needed it, and power being out for 7 days once...it's a minor inconvenience. I pretty much avoid the oven, but hot home cooked meals are the least of my worries at that point. I'm just happy to have water so I can poo.

Edit: I keep 3-5gallon gas cans full during the winter, which is enough for 25-30 hours of straight use. Every few months I just dump it in the truck and put fresh stuff in, not that big of a deal.

Edit again: I also put a few cups of gas in it every 2-4 weeks and light it up until it runs out. You don't want to find out it's dead when you need it the most.

[andyr354]

I would vote propane with a 500 or 1000 gallon house tank. The Fuel is easy to store and doesn't relly on any outside service to work for you to get it. It is also relatively cheap compared to gas or diesel.

I commonly go without power for a few days once a winter where I live in the sticks. Power blinks almost daily as well. I don't use a genterator I just have a backup wall furnace in the house that does not require electricity. My freezer is already out where it is cold (in the winter when I always loose power) so I don't worry to much about it. Only thing that really sucks is my current hot water heater is electric, so that means cold showers while the power is off. Next one will be propane for shure! If the poop really hits the fan you generator is no good to you in the long run anyway.

Just enjoy the candle light and read a book or goto bed early and catch up on sleep :)

[ironpig70]

just make sure that what ever you get that its big enough to run what you need. there is 2 big numbers to know running watts and start up amps. a fridge may take 700 watts to run but 2000 to start so a 1k generator will run a fridge but won't start it. worked with alot of equipment and folks miss the start up numbers alot.

[Todd W]

Depending on where you live too you might want to build a fence/wall/block around your tank and or geny... cuz once your neighbors or ANYONE ELSE sees it for that matter you will have new friends. This is especially true if you guys are seeing 10+ days w/out power and freezing temps.

I'm not saying not to be nice but you don't want someone robbing you or taking over your house for your heat/power ;)

I think 15kw should be plenty to get you by for long periods of time. You don't need your genny running to run the propane fireplace. So basically just enough for lights, fridge/freezer and your hot-water heater if you *need* that.

[TLCObsession]

Because I am already remodeling and will be working on the right parts of the house, I am putting in a manual transfer switch that will have circuits for the boiler, tankless, pump, fridge and living room lights. A 5800 watt generator running at half power will handle all of it with ease with enough capacity for the pump startup and any other real needs.

If I was going to go automatic, I would run propane, but I will likely run a Honda gas powered unit.

The sewage pump across the street has a 500 gallon propane tank and a ford straight 6 - it runs a 3 phase generator.. My old boss in CA also had the same setup.

Travis 40kW? Are you planning on getting a unit that has been pulled out of a data center? I only have 100A service to the house right now, so if I was running 100% capacity it would only be 24kW....


Jim

[MOSS2]

For the money a Miller portable welder might get more use. 10000watts and you can use it so many other places. They even have them three phase 480V for you shop guys.

[Albin]

One thing about a diesel genset is that you can make it run on used motor oil, tranny and hydraulic oil and veggie oil. Done right, you could get your electricity essentially free with only some collection, filtering and some diesel cost.

[aloharover]

Diesel if you have diesel vehicles.
Set it up so that it can also run on straight vegie oil

[IDASHO]

Diesel, hands down.
Propane in a close second.

Natural gas you are dependant upon the supplier.
And gas motors simply suck.

[dumass]

Lister - Petter is the shit for standby power.

cool setup on this site:
http://www.f1-rocketboy.com/lister.html

http://www.f1-rocketboy.com/images/DSCF0019.JPG

[Hackfabricaton]

Again: If all you are looking for is 'emergency' power for random outages, I'd still go with the multi-fuel gasoline/propane/natural gas setup. Get yourself a 10KW gen set that runs on multi-fuel (or convert one with the various kits that are available), rig up a quick disconnect to your fuel source, make-up an extension cord to plug into the house, get a manual transfer switch installed, and be done with it. Want to run your central air? You're gonna have to go at least 15KW and a 50amp transfer switch. All more money.

With the 8.5KW-10KW, you'll have enough power (assuming you aren't in an 'all electric' house) to run the essentials: Refrigeration, a bunch of lighting, sump/well pumps, garage door opener (don't forget that one!), microwave, and the igniter's for the gas stove/oven (don't forget that either).

When I had the electrician re-do the low-ball electric in my house a couple years ago (the best money I ever spent on this dump), I had him install the transfer switch/panel. The electrician could actually doubled up a couple circuits going to the 10 circuit transfer switch.. So I've got a number of rooms that have emergency power. I'm generator ready, even though I haven't purchased one yet. I just don't lose power that much in my area, and I haven't been able to 'steal' one at the right price.

[6869704x4]

I live in Hurricane central, although we got missed this year, and based on my experience I would suggest that you run the fuel that you run in your vehicles and cycle it to keep it fresh. You dont lose power that often do you?
You might have noticed this if you have been shoping for generators. They have been putting the surge watts in nice big letters and the continous watts in little letters somewhere else. So watch for that.
I have an old Sears companion brand 5500,6900 with a 10hrs Tecumseh that has been more than enough to get me through the storms that have hit here. I excerise it every so often, keep stabil in the tank, and when I'm done with it I shut off the fuel and let it run out.
So far this has worked for me.
Good luck with whatever you decide.

[u2slow]

It looks to me like auto-switching, permanent, standby-power isn't for the for the faint of wallet. I bought this Honda-ripoff a week ago for $999CDN

http://www.amicousa.com/images/AH6500Em.jpg

Turn off your main breaker, and backfeed the panel off a 30A breaker and only turn on what you need. Ran my fridge, furnace, and some lights easily. The only tricky part is not looking like the neighbourhood ass for hours after the power comes back on. :emb2:

[Travis Waldher]

Lister - Petter is the shit for standby power.

cool setup on this site:
http://www.f1-rocketboy.com/lister.html

http://www.f1-rocketboy.com/images/DSCF0019.JPG

I understand you can't import those anymore due to EPA restrictions.

I think you can buy them in pieces though.

[Travis Waldher]

I think 15kw should be plenty to get you by for long periods of time.

IMO that depends on the appliances.

For extended periods of times, you are going to want to run the drier (electric), washing machine (electric), furnace (gas), microwave (electric), oven (electric), lights, hair drier, etc.

By the time I got done adding it up I was pushing 25kw during peak usage. We could change our habits, but if it's an extended period of time, I'de just assume not have to.

So, I found a 40kw ST Generator head for about $800, I figure with a 200A transfer switch between the meter and the panel, an engine, and work out how to control the Idle, I could be done for $2,500 or so.

[ironpig70]

http://eugene.craigslist.org/tls/252533493.html


KOHLER STANDBY GENERATOR - $8500

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reply to: sale-252533493@craigslist.org
Date: 2006-12-22, 12:38PM PST


KOHLER 72KW DIESEL GENERATOR,120\240 3-PHASE, LOW HOURS WITH REMOTE EXHAUST AND FUEL TANKS, RUNS EXCELLENT, NEW BATTERIES, COMPLETE SET OF MANUALS AND SPARE GASKET SET, WOULD COST OVER $20,000 TO BUY NEW TODAY



wish i had the money this is a great find imho:smokin:

[Mechanos]

http://eugene.craigslist.org/tls/252533493.html


KOHLER STANDBY GENERATOR - $8500

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reply to: sale-252533493@craigslist.org
Date: 2006-12-22, 12:38PM PST


KOHLER 72KW DIESEL GENERATOR,120\240 3-PHASE, LOW HOURS WITH REMOTE EXHAUST AND FUEL TANKS, RUNS EXCELLENT, NEW BATTERIES, COMPLETE SET OF MANUALS AND SPARE GASKET SET, WOULD COST OVER $20,000 TO BUY NEW TODAY



wish i had the money this is a great find imho:smokin:

Holy Fawk!!!! 72,000 Watts!!!!

You could get several of your neighbors to go it on it with you and power the whole fawkin' neighborhood! :flipoff2:

[gilraine]

my house has oil heat and 3 275 gallon tanks.. its a no-brainer for me..