Pictures posted here. (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=54029) Nothing like a solid 24 hours of fourwheeling:D

looks hard to me I dont think I could make it :eek: :skull:

Nice!
Is that trail near the Axle Alley/Woodpecker/Ajax trails or up by Predator/Judgement Day/ect.?

Looks like the size of the rocks in JV.

:beer:


Jes

Those are awsome...... and thats our kind of trail ! :eek:
When can the Tin:skull:Bender's come and play ??? :D

Hey chris, i think i am moving out there in July. I will be looking for apartments in Tempe. I can't wait to run that shiat, yeah!

Originally posted by Jes
Nice!


Looks like the size of the rocks in JV.

:beer:


Jes

bigger...

I was talking with Chris Durham at the last EROCC event, and he said that asylum was the best trail he ever wheeled.

where is this trail located in AZ. It is :smokin:

Originally posted by Jes
Nice!
Is that trail near the Axle Alley/Woodpecker/Ajax trails or up by Predator/Judgement Day/ect.?

Looks like the size of the rocks in JV.

:beer:


Jes

Neither, it's out to the West of Phoenix.

I was talking to Jason Paule a while back and he said there was yammering about it turning into a parking lot, or some development project. Any truths there? I hate to get my hopes up just to have them crushed by the almighty dollar.

The land around the trailhead used to be the Catapillar proving grounds. It was sold to a developer. And rumor has it that access will be cut off.:mad:
On the way out to the trail, someone dug a 4' pit, another little trench thing, and blocked one road with VW sized boulders. So, it seems they are trying to stop traffic already.
Anyways, the trail was badass, exit road sucked, and most all made it. :smokin:

excuse me i havent had internet acess, since im so smalltime, i ran that trail by myself, sprung under, no rearsteer no hydros, 39.5s, no spotter, no arca pitcrew, in 3 hours start to finish, no breaks, no rolls, no trouble, and NO rockstacking, i now have a new trail (BOOMTOWN), if asylum took you 24 hours to acomplsish....... and you plan on running BOOMTOWN , you better just go ahead and post residence there....

ps. (and it only took the arca guys 6 hours for 10 trucks, no spotters no winches no pit crews)
:D

pm me smalltime wheeler...

trust me elf u want no part of BOOMTOWN;)

Originally posted by smalltimewheeler
excuse me i havent had internet acess, since im so smalltime, i ran that trail by myself, sprung under, no rearsteer no hydros, 39.5s, no spotter, no arca pitcrew, in 3 hours start to finish, no breaks, no rolls, no trouble, and NO rockstacking, i now have a new trail (BOOMTOWN), if asylum took you 24 hours to acomplsish....... and you plan on running BOOMTOWN , you better just go ahead and post residence there....

ps. (and it only took the arca guys 6 hours for 10 trucks, no spotters no winches no pit crews)
:D

Welcome to the BB Tracy.

You guys will never end building new trails down there, it is one of my lifetime wheeling goals, to wheel one of the trails you guys build to better you skills on rocks bigger that most people dream of.

Ian-

Whats up Elf, Are you living in AZ yet? If you are why haven't i heard any stories about asylum and how you were going to conquer it with that tank of yours. Lets skip the asylum and go staight to BOOMTOWN...


Hey Ian, how did you recognize me? I'm staying on the low, never been on a computer, no time always wheelin... This is pretty fun though. Where are you from, would be a pleasure to take wheelin. Theres some OK trails out here.:p

Boomtown...... lets go.......... Elf, you better concentrate on getting some gearing, lockers and experience before you try tackling anything like that.

Bring it awn. We need something new to run. Anyways, most of the other people on this board from AZ never come out to join us.
As far as elf cruiser goes, he can talk the talk but can't walk the walk.:flipoff2:

When you AZn's go out and hit the crazy trails, please call me, PM me, or email me or whatever. I won't be able to hang yet, but I'd be more than happy to take pichers or run parts or whatever... :D
Mike

As far as elf cruiser goes, he can talk the talk but can't walk the walk.

ouch jack, that stings... I know you could do much better with my rig, considering you've only watched me drive for about 12 seconds before, and I was being spotted by someone who had never spotted me before, you must be the expert on my substandard driving abilities... :rolleyes: :flipoff2:

Larry - got lockers now... Someone told me i need a winch for asylum, that's why I haven't done it yet.

Yeah Tracy I'm in Snottsdale.

tracy is gone hunting then to sema so hes out for 2 weeks, and elf no offense lockers or not, winch or no winch, your truck is just to big and wide and not capable enough for BOOMTOWN, trust me it would be just about impossible to get a full bodied rig though there, with the width of your axles it would be impassable, as would asylum , about BOOMTOWN, it is insane bad tracy just about totaled his cruiseres skins and hood, broke his headlight out, broke a rear 35 spline 60 axle, and only was 3/4 way though when it started getting dark, you definetely wanna walk this trail before you get your rig in it, its bad real bad:eek: :eek: , u may change your mind when you c it, if your rigs not a climbing mofo your gonna be doing a lot of winching and breaking
:D

Originally posted by smalltimewheeler


Hey Ian, how did you recognize me? I'm staying on the low, never been on a computer, no time always wheelin... This is pretty fun though. Where are you from, would be a pleasure to take wheelin. Theres some OK trails out here.:p

Hey Tracy, I think the Matrix in your profile gives it away:D Not many people I know wheel those. My rigs not ready for BOOMTOWN yet, but Id love to come watch sometime.

Originally posted by elf_cruiser


..........considering you've only watched me drive for about 12 seconds before, and I was being spotted by someone who had never spotted me before, you must be the expert on my substandard driving abilities.........

12 seconds is about all you would last on Asylum too.
Needing to be spotted on the first hundred feet Anaconda demonstrates your driving ability well enough. :rolleyes:
The trails that we are talking about make Anaconda look like a freeway.

Seriously though, you have the desire, just get some equipment and get some more seat time. Getting in over your head and needing to be drug out just pisses people off.

i won't argue with ya, but getting in over my head is how I learn. If i'm not pushing myself and my rig, or trying to do something I shouldn't be doing, well - I just wouldn't be myself...

seriously, though - the front spool will help, but now i can't turn, lol!

That trail looks badass! maybe in about 10 years I would be ready for that.

Wes

Thank god I know when to say when :D

Originally posted by rockracer
tracy is gone hunting then to sema so hes out for 2 weeks, and elf no offense lockers or not, winch or no winch, your truck is just to big and wide and not capable enough for BOOMTOWN, trust me it would be just about impossible to get a full bodied rig though there, with the width of your axles it would be impassable, as would asylum , about BOOMTOWN, it is insane bad tracy just about totaled his cruiseres skins and hood, broke his headlight out, broke a rear 35 spline 60 axle, and only was 3/4 way though when it started getting dark, you definetely wanna walk this trail before you get your rig in it, its bad real bad:eek: :eek: , u may change your mind when you c it, if your rigs not a climbing mofo your gonna be doing a lot of winching and breaking
:D

You got any pics of Boomtown? Jack and I walked the rest of the trail we are running this Sat, I think it's harder than Asylum. Lots of boulder crawling, a couple interesting verticals, 10-20ft. There are lines I don't have the tire to make that we bypassed the last couple times thru. I don't know if you PM'd Zags to say you were interested in going this Sat, the invitation is open since you got the equipment.

sorry no pics of BOOMTOWN....in the words of tracy... its twice if not three times as hard as asylum, this trail just NEVER lets up, the whole way through, its got probably 20 narrow extreme vertical shoots in it, no bypassess, vw size rocks in gardens, connecting each vertical section its beyond bad, in fact most would c it, and think theres no way thats drivable, yes i pmd zags and was excited about running with you guys this weekend, on your new trail, but im having to fly back to tx, to watch my little bro, play in his national tennis tournament, i told him i would like a year ago, so i really cant miss this trip, lets run it sometime this week......like wednday night....or maybe during the next week....let me no...i get back sunday night
thanks
adam

Originally posted by smalltimewheeler

Hey Ian, how did you recognize me? I'm staying on the low, never been on a computer, no time always wheelin... This is pretty fun though. Where are you from, would be a pleasure to take wheelin. Theres some OK trails out here.:p

I talked to you for a long while at the reno cal rocs about the asylum, and you mentioned that you were building a better one(trail not rig although the matrix gets it), so i put 2 and 2 together. I live in the SF bay area (nor cal). If i get a chance to go to the Phoenix area Ill be shure to contact ya, and see if i could at least hike along.

Ian-

Thank god I know when to say when

come awn! i want to see pics of that. just re-arange the trail for'em :flipoff2:

Originally posted by FULLSIZE


come awn! i want to see pics of that. just re-arange the trail for'em :flipoff2:


Hahaha... don't think I could rearrance rocks that are bigger than my truck.

Originally posted by elf_cruiser


ouch jack, that stings... I know you could do much better with my rig, considering you've only watched me drive for about 12 seconds before, and I was being spotted by someone who had never spotted me before, you must be the expert on my substandard driving abilities... :rolleyes: :flipoff2:


Elf, I am not trying to rip on ya. You just haven't run enough of the trails yet. Kinda like when I told you "you won't make it up Anaconda without a front locker". Real world experience counts to me.
As for this Boomtown, I would love to check it out. It sounds pretty bitchin'. So bring it awn.

It's all good Jack, I know I need to run more trails, that's why I moved here. But you know how it is... Until you get to know someone and wheel with them a few times, their opinion is worthless. That's why I thought I could make anaconda, and also why you thought I couldn't. See what I mean?? And you were right, but just 'cause the first time you saw me drive I got broke and stuck, that doesn't make me a bad driver, I was just in over my head. But that's usually where I enjoy being. The whole appeal for me is the challenge, know what I mean??

Anyone have the GPS coordinates for the beginning of this trail? Hopefully someone will, I'd like to give it a try. Thx

for what trail, no gps cordinated for BOOMTOWN thats for sure...

Well i killed my deer so im back for a day. I've got boomtown scheduled when i get back from sema.. it'll be a week day so i can get a helicopter to get rockracer out, just kidding skinny. It will be the same trio that broke asylum, Jason Paule and Don Robbins. This trail is the HARDEST trail ever in my opinion... It will take a full day to break every obsacle,to put in perspective i did break asylum in 3hrs by MYSELF, no gadgets, that was before that time. The old cruiser will be on hand with a fresh set of 42's and every lever i can grab(cheating you would say) I say evolving... Going where no man has gone...Jason just got the goodyear 40x13.5x17 today and says their 2in taller than 39.5 swamp. BFG will have theirs out Jan.

Anyone got the info on the new tablemesa trail??? Get the new painted matrix next week with newer proto BFG's, ready to wheel.

;)

your gonna need more than a helicopter to get the diggler out:flipoff2:, ill call u tommorow dirk:D

GPS
Anyone have the GPS coordinates for the beginning of this trail? Hopefully someone will, I'd like to give it a try. Thx


__________________
1987 Jeep Wrangler, SOA, 35" Goodyear MT, 8274, York OBA, 31 spline 9" Ford rear, Dana 30 front.

You want to take on one of the best new trails with a D30 up front?

Originally posted by smalltimewheeler
it'll be a week day so i can get a helicopter to get rockracer out, just kidding skinny.

:laughing:

[i]...Jason just got the goodyear 40x13.5x17 today and says their 2in taller than 39.5 swamp. BFG will have theirs out Jan.

[/B]


Their gonna look pretty skinny. :confused:


Are you saying BFG is gonna have a 40x13.5x17 in Jan? Who will be able to get it? Comp guys omly?

Originally posted by smalltimewheeler
Well i killed my deer so im back for a day. I've got boomtown scheduled when i get back from sema.. it'll be a week day so i can get a helicopter to get rockracer out, just kidding skinny. It will be the same trio that broke asylum, Jason Paule and Don Robbins. This trail is the HARDEST trail ever in my opinion... It will take a full day to break every obsacle,to put in perspective i did break asylum in 3hrs by MYSELF, no gadgets, that was before that time. The old cruiser will be on hand with a fresh set of 42's and every lever i can grab(cheating you would say) I say evolving... Going where no man has gone...Jason just got the goodyear 40x13.5x17 today and says their 2in taller than 39.5 swamp. BFG will have theirs out Jan.

Anyone got the info on the new tablemesa trail??? Get the new painted matrix next week with newer proto BFG's, ready to wheel.

If you need a cameraman let me know. I'd love to come watch you guys break the trail. What do you want to know about the Table Mesa trail? We are going to try and finish it up this Sat. The club is going to put together a little winter Rockcrawl for December, details shortly. The Sat trail run will be the 6th Day. Drop me a line and I'll give your directions if you want to scope it out by yourself (offer is only for Tracy, everyone else is going to have to wait till it's officially open). It's basically one long boulder crawl. There are a couple waterfalls past the midway point like this one:

http://www.azrockcrawler.com/_images/2002/6-026thday/Dscn2937.jpg

The rocks get really big at the end:

http://www.azrockcrawler.com/_images/2002/6-026thday/DSCN2489.JPG

Some of the stuff we've already ran:

http://www.azrockcrawler.com/_images/2002/6-026thday2/Dcp_0192.jpg

The squeeze

http://www.azrockcrawler.com/_images/2002/6-026thday2/Dcp_0272.jpg

There's a whole bunch of crazy lines off to the left of where this picture was taken.

http://www.azrockcrawler.com/_images/2002/6-026thday2/Dcp_0333.jpg

I'd like to meet some of you guys, (maybe go wheelin whenever Chimone gets done) so if any of you don't mind a college kid walkin' along, drop me a line, either through email, or phone 480-206-3897.

Thought I'd might ask here since it's been a year that my jeep has been down and I havent ran any of these newer hardcore trails that have popped up in that same time frame......

I have a front Dana60 to go in my CJ7. Should I cut it down to fit the CJ frame width and will end up at 64.5" wms to wms or run it full width at 69.5? Tire size will be at least 38" TSL SX's.


Any thoughts?

Originally posted by AtomicBeesting
Thought I'd might ask here since it's been a year that my jeep has been down and I havent ran any of these newer hardcore trails that have popped up in that same time frame......

I have a front Dana60 to go in my CJ7. Should I cut it down to fit the CJ frame width and will end up at 64.5" wms to wms or run it full width at 69.5? Tire size will be at least 38" TSL SX's.


Any thoughts?

Originally posted by AtomicBeesting
Thought I'd might ask here since it's been a year that my jeep has been down and I havent ran any of these newer hardcore trails that have popped up in that same time frame......

I have a front Dana60 to go in my CJ7. Should I cut it down to fit the CJ frame width and will end up at 64.5" wms to wms or run it full width at 69.5? Tire size will be at least 38" TSL SX's.


Any thoughts?

I would definately say NARROW it no questions asked... I think you be able to go a little narrower, like 62

Originally posted by AZFord4x4
Thank god I know when to say when :D

wish i knew how to say that, so does my cruiser, it has seen better days

Originally posted by smalltimewheeler


wish i knew how to say that, so does my cruiser, it has seen better days

Hey Tracy,

Are you going to keep the Cruiser as a trail rig or are you going to log all your stick time in the Matrix?

Originally posted by wngrog


Hey Tracy,

Are you going to keep the Cruiser as a trail rig or are you going to log all your stick time in the Matrix?

Every spare minute will be in the matrix. my cruiser is going back with Jason Paule, completely redone on a new chassis resembling the matrix, staying sprung under up front and coils in rear. Just a new look for that pooooor thing, its tired... Stick time is were its at, it doesnt matter what you have, its seat time that gets you to the top.

DAMN IT! Thats is! I'm moving!

And 40" goodyears or BFGs.....FFFFFFFFFFawk!!!!

How do you like the new paule buggy Smalltime? That thing looks hell-a-narrow, how narrow is it? How long?

http://www.pirate4x4.com/albums/supercrawl02/112_ODBuggy.jpg

I agree on the driving time thing....plus....its wheeling....what can be so bad about that!

Originally posted by smalltimewheeler


I would definately say NARROW it no questions asked... I think you be able to go a little narrower, like 62


Is that from a competition perspective or would the same thinking benefit me on these newer trails?

Originally posted by Mieser
DAMN IT! Thats is! I'm moving!

And 40" goodyears or BFGs.....FFFFFFFFFFawk!!!!

How do you like the new paule buggy Smalltime? That thing looks hell-a-narrow, how narrow is it? How long?

http://www.pirate4x4.com/albums/supercrawl02/112_ODBuggy.jpg

I agree on the driving time thing....plus....its wheeling....what can be so bad about that!

I was real scared on how that matrix was going to work(REAL SCARED), but i have 100% faith in jason. That truck kicks some serious ARSS. its like 30:1 compared to 200:1 but its different, i dont know why, thats why im a driver and not a fabricator. Its 72 inches outside width and the bodys 47in wide, 101in wheelbase with the 4.3 vortec(thats the secret if you ask me).

Originally posted by AtomicBeesting



Is that from a competition perspective or would the same thinking benefit me on these newer trails?

Thats all around wheeln my opion of course, but there is absolutely no drawbacks to it. its great in comp but even better at home. look at don robbins, he just took off his 44's and narrowed his rig for the same reason(that and he hadn't beat me wide ANYWHERE). GO NARROW...

Originally posted by AtomicBeesting



Is that from a competition perspective or would the same thinking benefit me on these newer trails?

Thats all around wheeln my opion of course, but there is absolutely no drawbacks to it. its great in comp but even better at home. look at don robbins, he just took off his 44's and narrowed his rig for the same reason(that and he hadn't beat me wide ANYWHERE). GO NARROW...

Originally posted by smalltimewheeler


wish i knew how to say that, so does my cruiser, it has seen better days

awww... ya mean the night I met you & Rob when you still were happy with birfields? :D :D :D
Can't say too much about that though, he had to drag both our broke rigs out that night.

Thanks for answering my questions Smalltime, and welcome to the board!

Whats all the secret new stuff jason is going to do the ol' cruiser?

I want to go 73" wide outside rim to outside rim, too wide? HOw much does the new buggy tip the scales at? It looks light...maybe 3200ish.

Originally posted by Mieser
Thanks for answering my questions Smalltime, and welcome to the board!

Whats all the secret new stuff jason is going to do the ol' cruiser?

I want to go 73" wide outside rim to outside rim, too wide? HOw much does the new buggy tip the scales at? It looks light...maybe 3200ish.


Not much secret stuff on the cruiser, just a new chassis and paint(not o.d green). The matrix is 72 outside, the cruiser is 75. It weighs 3240 thats with rear steer, thats pretty light to have 60's and all. Theres really no fancy gadgets(yet) on the matrix, detroits front and rear, turning brakes, and low center of gravity.

73" sounds good, what tires are you running? John Gilland and I are the narrowest out there.

I want to run those 40s!!!!

I am saying rim edge to edge, you add the tire in there and you would be a little wider, not much though. As long as you keep it low you can't really be that bad off. What kinda belly clearance are you getting one the Matrix?

Whats with giving up the OD green! That kicks!

I can't seem to keep mine on 4 wheels when it is that narrow. I have just lowered it AGAIN and widened it more.

I don't know, I see places where the narrow guys spank ass and also places where the wide/long guys rock....

There is not a perfect width or a perfect length in my opinion. Sometimes my junk rocks, sometimes it don't.....

exactly nolen, i like my width, and i try to make it work. Sometimes it rocks, sometimes you can't even get into armageddon... But hey, that's wheeling!

BTW, welcome to the board Tracy. I'll let you know when I want to go "conquer" asylum, LOL!!!

mines 72 outside to outside also and i LOVE it would never go wider, just my opinion my chassis is only 46 inches wide though, and mine wieghs only 3000, maybe thats why its stable and narrow :confused:, maybe you should narrow your track width and your body nolen, mines also only 5 11 tall also 101 wheelbase

I think that is what most people don't think about...

Most of these new buggys are under 6' tall, and some are under 3000lbs. Now, a lot of them have 60s, so most of the weight is right on the ground....tires....wheels, Well you get the point. I think there is VERY little weight up top. I think that is what allows them to get away with only being in the low 70s for width.

Originally posted by Mieser
I want to run those 40s!!!!

I am saying rim edge to edge, you add the tire in there and you would be a little wider, not much though. As long as you keep it low you can't really be that bad off. What kinda belly clearance are you getting one the Matrix?

Whats with giving up the OD green! That kicks!

I measure to outside tire bulge, belly clearance is 23" on the matrix 18" on the cruiser, really that cruiser doesnt have anything cool about it... The front shackles rub the ground. The O.D green has to go for the sponsors:confused: :confused: Thats the only reason i built the matrix, even with all my standings i get NOTHING
Whats up rockracer, just got off the phone with hele extraction INC. :D :D :D
Elf: you guys are right on not narrowing your rigs, the body needs it to do so... Trails are getting tighter though...
LETS GO WHEELIN

About the width.. I am going to throw some 60s under the heep in a little while and have been debating keeping em full width or cutting them down. Id like to gain more stability so I am leaning towards keeping them full width. Maybe when my COG is lower than my frame rails Ill go narrow again:D I hope the Matrix gets you some sponsors Tracy, you definitely have earned them. And Id also love to be there when you guys break Boomtown

Elf: you guys are right on not narrowing your rigs, the body needs it to do so... Trails are getting tighter though...

yup, exactly... Someday I'll build a buggy for comps that'll be stable AND fit btwn gates, but I want to keep my cruiser for REAL wheeling, IE day long trips with passengers. I mean, rigs like your Matrix, and the Assasin are cool, but where do you put the cooler, sleeping bag, passengers, etc.???

anyways, I got lots more stuff to do to mine before it's ready for Asylum, but it won't be too long...

damn that trail looks fun...i need to get heep done and head down..


and wait..whats this about 40 inch krawlers?

Originally posted by elf_cruiser


yup, exactly... Someday I'll build a buggy for comps that'll be stable AND fit btwn gates, but I want to keep my cruiser for REAL wheeling, IE day long trips with passengers. I mean, rigs like your Matrix, and the Assasin are cool, but where do you put the cooler, sleeping bag, passengers, etc.???

anyways, I got lots more stuff to do to mine before it's ready for Asylum, but it won't be too long...
Now elf i didn't say that your width was ideal for any trail, I've never been that wide and dont see a use for it, there is NO downside to narrow. Even around 82" mark sure sqeezes through. As far as family wheeln thats great but dont claim you can do every trail out there and pull the exuse "I still like to take the family wheeln" . Dude everyone has a limit, I still go with friends that run 35s and stack rocks all day, thats cool, but they admit their limits. As long as its wheeln of anykind im having fun.

Originally posted by smalltimewheeler

there is NO downside to narrow

Now that depends on how wide the body is and how tall your rig is.....:p

Originally posted by wngrog


Now that depends on how wide the body is and how tall your rig is.....:p
Lower the truck were not pickin oranges out here, A jeep or a cruiser didnt come with fullsize axles for a reason... The cruiser has a 2" sprung under lift on 42s.

tough trail!!


cool cruiser dude!!

why the SUA? :D :p (sorry nolen i had to ask)

Originally posted by BJ On Roids
tough trail!!


cool cruiser dude!!

why the SUA? :D :p (sorry nolen i had to ask)
Its very simple, IT WORKS...
I was always told don't fix whats not broke.
In all seriousness i'm a poor bastard and drive what i have.
Its not the hydros making it work either, I wheeled for years with out it, not enough room to give you my standings with it.
I so enjoy this, I'm such a NEWBIE....

Originally posted by elf_cruiser
I'll let you know when I want to go "conquer" asylum, LOL!!!


HA!... jackass....

Originally posted by smalltimewheeler

Lower the truck were not pickin oranges out here, A jeep or a cruiser didnt come with fullsize axles for a reason... The cruiser has a 2" sprung under lift on 42s.

At this point is it as low as it can go....I run a stock Spring over with FJ-40 reversed springs in the front (1 leaf removed) and in the rear I run Stock FJ-55 springs. All this with 42's.

You have been around Cruisers long enough to know most people generally run 35's with this setup.

Anyway, I totally agree with you about small/narrow vehicles, but I was just stating that narrow is good as long ans the ride above those axles is narrow too.

I gotta get down there thats my kinda party:D

Trailhawg

Originally posted by wngrog


At this point is it as low as it can go....I run a stock Spring over with FJ-40 reversed springs in the front (1 leaf removed) and in the rear I run Stock FJ-55 springs. All this with 42's.

You have been around Cruisers long enough to know most people generally run 35's with this setup.

Anyway, I totally agree with you about small/narrow vehicles, but I was just stating that narrow is good as long ans the ride above those axles is narrow too.
Just a question: do you have a lot of body roll and does it want to unload on a bound up climb, my guess is yes. The spring under helps it from doing that. It doesn't get the greatest flex but come on the traction is unreal. HUM look cool on ramp or make the nasty trails look easy.
I can make an obstacle or a whole trail look flawless and then get ridiculed for having a spring under, just doesnt make sense to me.
I'm not saying narrow every rig out there, I've got buds that dominate with full width, but they are drivers(that goes a long way).
Low as you can go is the answer, to keep the belly clearance you have to sandwich the truck, rake the hood, lower the seat, lower everything but the belly if that makes sense. The top bar on the matrix is about 5' 8" tall with 23" belly(not bad).
If i could have one at home wheeler it would be sprung under all the way around(SORRY)....:eek: :eek: :eek:

Originally posted by smalltimewheeler

Just a question: do you have a lot of body roll and does it want to unload on a bound up climb, my guess is yes.

It has gotten better since I got rid of most of the weight in the rear and went to an automatic, but yes, that is my biggest complaint on the spring over. I LOVE the rid, on and off the rocks and the articulation is OK.

What my next big project will be is to do coils or coilovers in the rear and keep the SOA in the front to get my hands around the bounce.

Originally posted by wngrog


It has gotten better since I got rid of most of the weight in the rear and went to an automatic, but yes, that is my biggest complaint on the spring over. I LOVE the rid, on and off the rocks and the articulation is OK.

What my next big project will be is to do coils or coilovers in the rear and keep the SOA in the front to get my hands around the bounce.
I dont say anything negative about rigs because some drivers make what they have work so well, I have so much seat time in my ride i know how to stay out of its disadvantages(which every truck has 1 or 2 or 50).
I put cois on for one reason only, rearsteer, the body roll is so bad now. It needs a swaybar badly but im to lazy, rather go wheeln. The coils deffinately help with bumping ledges though..
How did those 44s work in farmington?

yeah, the only way I see to get rid of bounce on a short WB rig with big tires, is to go with a linked suspension. There just isn't room to get a long enough traction bar in there. My instant center is REDICULOUS, and the truck lets me know it everytime i get vertical. I'm sure nolen has the same issue, as ours are similar in height, COG, and tire size.

So tracy, if you love SUA sooo much, why'd you go CO F&R on the new buggy? you using some good limiting straps to keep it from unloading?

I have to agree with small time....

He was right about the pancake...bring everything up on the bottom and bring everything down on the top. A lower center of gravity is going to help no matter what. It also helps keep weight transfer from going over the rear tire contact patch, which in my head is when you start to get into trouble. I would rather drag the belly than roll. Doesn't paule have an air bad on his wishbone links front and rear to lift himself off of stuff? Are you running that on the matrix?

What about weight distibution, how many rigs are HEAVY in the ass! What the hell does that do for performance?

Lighter overall.....it seems to be the trend. But can you be too light?

Such a modest name, I never would have guessed it was you:D

Wish I lived closer to you guys to hook up for some of those trails. Thanks for putting me in touch with Jim. Have a blast at Sema and see you in two wks!

What's up with the new BFG's? I trust you'll be running them in 2 wks?

Good luck with the sponsors and the new car, you definately earned some support if you can get it.

I hear Don's spotting for you in Cabo- that'd be fun to watch.

Hey elf i went coils on the new buggy for a better all around comp buggy. I dont have enough seat time say yay or nay. I loved in farminton. My old cruiser is going on a paule chassis still sprung under. Dude theres many reasons behind your truck bouncing, try actually crawling on the right line...It helps...

Whats up Ken, how are things? Deffinately be on BFGs, get the new proto at sema, something about bigger sidebiters. Cant wait for Reno...

Mieser im still new to the weight thing, it helps alot with hill shooting but the cruiser weighs 4350 and rock crawls like a MOFO. All the weight up front is a huge success story.

that is a kick ass trail:beer: