So my LT-230 install went pretty good, except for the fact that I cannot get into high-range-diff-lock. I am going to crawl back under there today and mess around with the linkage to see if it can't be adjusted more betterly.

If that cannot be done, I am *considering* reinventing the wheel.

Some thoughts:

Use the original BW linkage, connect to the hi-low lever on LT-230.

For the diff-lock, I want to drill a hole in the tunnel, and place through it a custom shaft. The shaft would have a U-shaped piece to weld to the slotted plate that fits over the difflock mechanism. I currently do have this slotted plate. IF I didn't have one, I guess one could be made. The shaft would extend straight up from the difflock through the tunnel cover, through a swanky shift-boot, to a stock series diff-lock knob (yellow???).

The BW linkage would engage high-low with a stock series h/l knob (red???). I think the BW linkage connecting rod might be too long, so shortening it would be necessary, but not hard.

Here are some pics:

http://www.tawayama.com/blog/sladeomaticcrosssection.jpg

http://www.tawayama.com/blog/slade-o-matic-linkage.jpg

SOME FOLKS have expressed a concern that the twisting force to engage the diff-lock might be too difficult, and that a T-shaped handle might be better?

Any ideas, thoughts, discouragements or 'flip-off-2's'???

:confused: :flipoff2: :grinpimp:

Won't the shifter ball loosen on the threads if you twist it counterclockwise?

:flipoff2:

T-Handle would, it would seem, be easier to exert torque onto the slotted plate. I suggest one with "Hurst" emblazened on it! :D

http://www.photodump.com/direct/ProsQtor/huu-1530026.jpg

Yeah yeah...the Hurst shifter has been looming large in my mind...

The standard shifter linkage un modified works very well if it is adjusted right. I say instead of reinventing the wheel, you get off your lazy but and fix the problem the right way.

it's 32 deg. in the garage...just ran out of propane for the heater.

4 layers of clothes on and a moving pad on the concrete now. I hope I don't die under there.

I'll adjust. You got a linkage you wanna sell Puff? :D

Now, what do you guys think of that method for someone who couldn't find an LT-230 linkage? They are kind of hard to find BTW...

Seems like it would work and I don't think it would be that hard to twist. I could shift mine with a little stubby wrench and hardly any effort. It would suck if the ball started twisting off though, maybe find a weld on handle.

Your diff lock indicator switch isn't stuck and interfering with the lock engaging is it?

it's 32 deg. in the garage...just ran out of propane for the heater.

4 layers of clothes on and a moving pad on the concrete now. I hope I don't die under there.

I'll adjust. You got a linkage you wanna sell Puff? :D

Now, what do you guys think of that method for someone who couldn't find an LT-230 linkage? They are kind of hard to find BTW...
i think it was 80 deg yesterday. i was totally sweating out there:flipoff2:

a) your garage must be far better insulated than mine ... almost never
below 40 deg out there ...

b) cardboard works better than a moving pad for insulation and is disposable,

c) surely you can get the o.e. LT230 bits to work,

d) didya notice that "Hurst" and "Slade" have the same number of letters :D

Finally ) we all know that you're just looking for an excuse to have yellow and red knobs in the RRC !

Michael, I think it's a pretty creative idea, but reminds me of a guy who remodeled his house just so he could fit a piano through his front door. Believe it or not, I thought about doing this a couple of months ago, but realised the proper linkage was really worth aquiring. Now that I have it, I think back to my rediculous idea and laugh.

To add tech however. I had planned to use the plate with the little angled hole by which the yellow lever passes through the body. I also though about making the lever work up and down as it does in a series truck, but that would have required a cable set up or a snazzy linkage.

Who wants a bright yellow knob in a world of (worn) leather, (disfunctional) electronics, and (judgemental) passengers.

All the lock-out bits are removed, no electronic anything in the t-case at all now.

I got the shifter out, luckily I didn't bend/break anything. I think I'll take this chance to open up the shifter hole. It really does need it. I thought I could 'make it work' w/out enlarging it, but I think I'll open it up at least 1/4 inch on the left side.

I did notice though that my hi-lo linkage has a part that is differently adjusted than in the pic that JSBriggs posted in an earlier thread. I'll document with pics and report back.

*IF* I had found I'd buggered up the linkage guts (the nylon bits can and do break), I was seriously thinking of doing my Slade-o-matic linkage. Now that it's not, I'm going to adjust then re-install.

I might do a red knob anyway. I like how they look. :grinpimp:

I had to cut quite a bit out of my console so that the lever woul dmove far enough to one side to engage the diff lock.

Now back out side to try to start my RR again, it doesn't like these below zero temps.

Yeah yeah...the Hurst shifter has been looming large in my mind...

calling Jeff :flipoff2: ( i guess it was on his auto tho...)

i still have a shifter linkage minus the mounting plate, if you are needing to replace just the shifter and the linkages, and i have the knob and boot you were looking for earlier

jpenrose,

Nope, don't need it. Everythings back together and working fine. I had the adjustment WAY out of whack. I had to dissasemble completely to free up the mechanism, and upon reassembly didn't put it together right.

I have LOTS of pics, I'll post later this afternoon. :D

http://www.tawayama.com/gear/briggs/PA070002.JPG

LT230's with a hurst shifter are sooo 90's.

:flipoff2:


BTW this is what you need to cut.


-Jeff

EDIT: just saw your solution.....did page 175 help?

BTW this is what you need to cut.
-Jeff

It is interesting, that in this case...so far...the linkage now engages very easily and I didn't have to cut anything out.

When I lifted the t-case up into the truck, got all of the t-case mounts on, etc...I did notice that the left side t-case mount did not sit completely down in the slot. When it settled and got all bolted in, it was about half-way down the slot, nearly centered.

If the t-case is clocked CW slightly, I believe that the lever does not have to go as far left as it does in your truck. I wonder what will happen when I hit a few bumps and the t-case has a chance to 'settle' further. I also wonder what I can do to keep the t-case oriented in its present location so that I don't have to cut in the future?

Time will tell...clearly, but for now, it appears that I don't need to cut.

Oh, I have a swanky ribbed shift boot from Six-States that you can have. :flipoff2:

EDIT: just saw your solution.....did page 175 help?

Help, yes, but it clarified more than anything.

The REAL help honestly, was that pic of the linkage you have. It showed me where the linkage is supposed to be located relative to the housing. I'll clarify when I get all the pics re-sized and posted.

Rather than just screwing up and fixing it, I hopefully have some actual tech and a possible insight to offer from this excercize. :shaking:

ok, coming in on this late, but I think your problem would best be solved if you get some air actuators(sp) :D

Alright...here's what I learned today.

If the linkage is incorrectly reassembled, you're screwed.

I went ahead and dropped the trans/t-case/crossmember/exhaust as a unit, did not disconnect the rear driveshaft. I lowered it down about 6 inches, which gave me a lot of room to work from the front and side of the t-case. This is with the front driveshaft removed, so I had plenty of clearance.

I removed the linkage because I wanted to see if I'd shattered any of the internal nylon pieces. I was really putting some pressure and leverage on the shifter, even used an extension trying to get it into hi-range. I think I bent the shaft a tad, but I couldn't bend it back where I wanted it, so I left it alone.

I originally had to completely dissasemble the linkage because of corrosion. The linkage moves in two directions, fore/aft and rotates along the fore/aft axix. These two motions give you your high/low range (front to back), and the difflock engage/disengage (side to side).

Taking apart the linkage was a bit of a pain, but I was able to get everything moving very freely, packed it with grease/oil/more grease, and reassembled.

There is a bronze shaft that is splined on one end with a groove about 1/4 inch from the end of the splines. An O-ring fits in this groove, then a collar fits over the splines and is tightened down. The splined collar is hollow, and another shaft goes inside and passes to the linkage on the outside. This is the shaft that engages diff-lock. It sounds pretty complicated, and it is, but here's some pics.

http://www.tawayama.com/blog/LT230linkageOring.jpg

When I dissasembled the linkage housing, I incorrectly located the collar on the splined shaft. I thought I had it located correctly relative to the outside linkage shaft, but the high-low shifter wasn't in the same place, so it wasn't exactly where it needed to be. The result is that I was unable to engage high-range no matter how hard I pulled the shaft backwards.

Here's a pic of the collar in the *incorrect* location:

http://www.tawayama.com/blog/LT230incorrectadjustment.jpg

I took the collar off and rotated it backwards about 1/4 turn...maybe a tad less, and re-tightened it. This was an educated guess, but I was fairly certain it was close, based on a photograph that was shown to me by JSBriggs here:

http://www.tawayama.com/gear/briggs/PC030080.JPG

Here's mine after being readjusted:

http://www.tawayama.com/blog/LT230linkagecorrectadjustme.jpg

I had to replace the tightening bolt on the collar, the 8mm bolt was stripped after I had to wail on it due to corrosion. You could potentially adjust your linkage w/out removing it by loosening that bolt, sliding the collar to the side, rotating it to the new location and reassembling.

You need to be VERY careful though, the O-ring is the only thing holding the splined brass shaft in place. If you push on the brass shaft too hard while putting on the collar, the O-ring will slide off, the brass shaft will slide back into the housing, and then you HAVE to remove the diff-lock mechanism to reassemble. Ask me how I know.

To make sure that the lever had enough room to move side-to-side I removed quite a bit of the foam that is in the stock location. With the Borg-Warner shifter, it only has to move front-to-back. With the LT-230 shifter, it has to move in a much wider range, side to side as well, so I removed some foam for clearance.

http://www.tawayama.com/blog/RRCcenterconsolenolinkage.jpg

Some have reported that they needed to actually trim the center console so that the linkage has enough room to move to the left. Moving the shifter to the left will engage the diff-lock, front is low-range, back is high-range.

I was actually able to get my linkage to work without enlarging the center opening. I wondered why it seemed to work, then I remembered that when I lowered the t-case into position on the rubber mounts and frame brackets, the left side rubber mount didn't actually seat all the way down the slotted groove. It settled about half-way down the slot, essentially clocking the entire t-case slightly clock-wise. A pic:

http://www.tawayama.com/blog/slotinframebracketwithrubbe.jpg

This is, I believe, why I'm able to get the shifter to go left far enough to engage diff-lock and not have to trim.

I had this interesting idea to use the existing BW t-case shifter, and it does line up in the identical position, but the shifter linkage connecting rod is about 4 1/2 inches too long.

http://www.tawayama.com/blog/BWandLT230linkages.jpg

Here's how I see you'd have to shorten the BW linkage:

http://www.tawayama.com/blog/BWlinkagerodandslottedplate.jpg

IF (a big IF), you wanted to do this, you'd have to shorten the rod, straighten out the slight bend, re-thread the end for the Y-bracket, and you'd be pretty well sorted out. You'd then have to figure out the diff-lock mechanism...which I thought I had a good answer for, but was made better with the suggestion of the famous 'Hurst' shifter.

http://www.tawayama.com/blog/RRCcenterconsolesideview.jpg

I learned something today...so I thought I'd share.

You can all pat me on the back now. :flipoff2:

Wow....look at all them thar fuses!

Nice pics, Mike -- you should be a photographer! :flipoff2:

You need to be VERY careful though, the O-ring is the only thing holding the splined brass shaft in place. If you push on the brass shaft too hard while putting on the collar, the O-ring will slide off, the brass shaft will slide back into the housing, and then you HAVE to remove the diff-lock mechanism to reassemble. Ask me how I know.

My old LT230 shifters don't have the orings to prevent the shaft disappearing. I found out that simply holding the lever hard right, prevents the splined shaft from pushing in.

:confused:
Mike, I've gotta ask, why didn't you just remove the center console? Gives you a nice rectangular hole in the top of the tunnel about 10" by 16". Enough space that I was able to install the shifter from the comfort of my drivers seat and adjust the linkage to work properly. Takes about an hour to remove the first time. I know that I did not enjoy tilting the drivetrain, a lesson I learned harshly with a cracked heater core come by tilting too far. That was fun to fix in the snow.

Nice write up by the way.

I have found no nead to cut the center console up as well. I can't, however, re-install the leather boot as the thickness of the flange at the boot's base is simply too thick on the left side. I think by removing some of the aluminum strip and the inner fold of leather, I can garner the 1/8" or so that I need. Ive also considered reaming out the bolt holes in the shifter mount to adjust the whole shifter to the right a 1/4". Might need a mill for this though...

how 'bout using the console from an '87-'88 RRC ?

Actually, if you get a t-box shift gaiter for a D1, you can widen the hole to the left and the long tabs on the boot will clip into the center console nicely. We did this on my brother in laws 1994 RRC when we put in the LT230 and it looks very good for minimal work.

how 'bout using the console from an '87-'88 RRC ?

That would work, but the color is off.



As for not trimming, before I trimmed I though I wouldn't need to as well. It did fine on the road, but the first time I took it offroad I realized that when everything is flexing the console contacts the shifter and pops it out of diff lock.

-Jeff

That's an interesting idea Rob, got a picture?

Good point Jeff, I guess I'll have to do some testing when the snow melts. One would probably pop out of diff lock right at the worst time...all flexed up.

Do you know which direction you're going to go Mike, besides the red knob that is?

:confused:
Mike, I've gotta ask, why didn't you just remove the center console?

Because tilting back the drivetrain seemed less work TTYTT.

It does drive me crazy why LR didn't design the center console to be removed easier. I don't think many designers look forward and think about service when designing cars. :shaking:

:confused:
Mike, I've gotta ask, why didn't you just remove the center console? Gives you a nice rectangular hole in the top of the tunnel about 10" by 16". Enough space that I was able to install the shifter from the comfort of my drivers seat and adjust the linkage to work properly. Takes about an hour to remove the first time. I know that I did not enjoy tilting the drivetrain, a lesson I learned harshly with a cracked heater core come by tilting too far. That was fun to fix in the snow.

Nice write up by the way.



Yes, nice write-up. I too removed the whole center console/cubby box & trans shifter.
Pasatiempo, how far was too far in your case?! I felt I had it dropped back pretty far and did no damage...:confused:

It does drive me crazy why LR didn't design the center console to be removed easier
Absolutely,it seems like I've had one of mine apart every other year so it's getting easier...

Nomar, I've got a 94 with the 4.2 and the original plastic style heater core. I lowered the gearbox down to meet the stock crossmember, but found that there was not enough room to slip the BW off the output shaft. So I partially unbolted the crossmember and rotated it forward. -lowered the box about 3/4" as measured at the crossmember and suddenly saw coolant flowing from the bulkhead. I knew I was screwed, just not how bad. I had put some new motor mounts in a few months prior and noticed they were a tad thicker than what I took out, maybe 3/16" thicker. These were allmakes brand sourced from BP. I believe these were the source of my problems, and why most others have not experienced my disaster. Tilting the engine back from higher up compounds the interference with the bulkhead due to it's sloping nature.

The core's spigots protrude into the engine bay in the most unreachable location. When I replaced the core, I pulled the hoses through the bulkhead enough to slip them over the new core's spigots. Then installed the heater assembly. I then spent close to two hours :eek: tightening the two hose clamps from the engine bay side of things. I am pretty skinny, big handed and have been climbing for over half my life.....my hands didn't work nor feel right for a few days. I had thought about pulling the motor mounts and lowering the engine but I was parked in the street, with 2wd on icy/snowy ground, on a side-hill...

I'm glad that you found a method that works for you Mike. The center console is somewhat large and bulky. Stress cracks made it easier for me by splitting the console in half right at the base of the window switch panel -internally, and not visible fromt the outside. This allowed me to remove the flat gearbox panel, while merely loosening the center storage box to pull out the prior.

I also eliminated the heater hoses to the rear footwell. I capped the heater box with cut pieces of CD and pop riveted them in place.

I'll try to get some pics up on my site in a couple weeks.

Brett,
Did you know that the older style heater cores are copper. At least the one in my '80 & '87 were. I had it rebuilt at the local rediator shop. Should outlast the plastic & aluminum one.

http://www.tawayama.com/gear/briggs/heater%20core%20001a.JPG

http://www.tawayama.com/gear/briggs/heater%20core%20002a.JPG

http://www.tawayama.com/gear/briggs/heater%20core%20003a.JPG

-Jeff

Thanks Jeff,
My new heater core was purchased from BP, and is made by "allmakes". The unit is of all metal construction and is supposedly an improvement over the plastic one that I have replaced and you have shown next to your copper unit. Thanks for the pics by the way.:)

Of major interest to me is the difference in length of the "bottom" tube shown in your first and third picture. Clearly the plastic tube is longer than the copper one. This must have factored into my disaster as well. I have some pics of the "allmakes" from before I installed it, unfortunately my real computer is in a different state at the moment.

Rover seemed to have gotten it right with the original copper unit. What savings were made in switching to a plastic unit were probably spent on a bonus to some executive, who invariably blew it on a smooth LBC.