well, I think a lot of us do............. What is you question?

No. Nobody has ever used one. Not even the Chevy/GMC guys.:flipoff2: :rolleyes:

well that was wierd I had a question there a entier post :confused:


anyway the question is has anyone used it with a home-made custem wireing harnes

i.e. gone to the wreckers and pulled it all off a truck and swaped it over to your rig. I understand there is ALOT of wiering to be done so I was wondering if anyone has done it

there actually isnt that many wires. but if you pulled it off a truck why didnt you snag teh computer and all the wires too. jiMMy

Originally posted by Chief Yelling Alot

anyway the question is has anyone used it with a home-made custem wireing harnes

i.e. gone to the wreckers and pulled it all off a truck and swaped it over to your rig. I understand there is ALOT of wiering to be done so I was wondering if anyone has done it

If you are going to adapt the TBI to your motor, whatever it is, you will be a whole lot better served if you buy the harness from Howell. Or you could make your own, if you are the wiring kinda guy, but you will need a schematic of the harness/computer connectors, and all the correct connectors. Voltage levels are critical, the small values on 5vdc circuits have tight margins that the computer is sensitive to. If making your own, be sure all the connections are impedence free.

nope...... just a vortec 5700 :D

Originally posted by Keith


impedence free.


hu:question: :question: :question:

Originally posted by Chief Yelling Alot



hu:question: :question: :question: guess your not making your own harness then? lol, back to teh junk yard or get your wallet out!

something that impedes : HINDRANCE: as a : the apparent opposition in an electrical circuit to the flow of an alternating current that is analogous to the actual electrical resistance to a direct current and that is the ratio of effective electromotive force to the effective current

Originally posted by The Jerk
guess your not making your own harness then? lol, back to teh junk yard or get your wallet out!

something that impedes : HINDRANCE: as a : the apparent opposition in an electrical circuit to the flow of an alternating current that is analogous to the actual electrical resistance to a direct current and that is the ratio of effective electromotive force to the effective current

so how do I make sure it is impedence free

do what keith said and make sure all your tollerences are dead on as the computer doesnt allow much error i belive! jiMMy

so how do I make sure it is impedence free

Since it is basically a DC circuit impedence really won't matter, but resistance will. All you need to do is learn how to solder with some proficiency. The computers are really not that sensitive to the voltage since it will tend to have to much voltage going in to the box and a regulator inside, but they are extremely sensitive to heat from a soldering iron so you need to be careful. Most ICs typically have a heating tolerence of a couple of seconds. It really isn't that hard to build a custom wiring harness. Good luck

Just say NO to impedance!

Jay

I did one on my '83 Chevy about 5 years ago, took me a little while since it was the first time I'd really messed with one. My brother and I recently did one on his '70 Chevy, basically I just told him what to do and he did the work. There really aren't that many wires, however these were both on 350s so it was a little easier since thats what the harnesses we used came off of. I would adapt a factory harness before I tried to build my own. Once you get it home, pull off the loom, get rid of the wires you don't need, add any additional ones you do, and reloom it. I would suspect that you would also need a custom chip with your motor (345?).

You will also need to figure out how to combine the Chevy distributor internals and the IH distributor, I've never done one but there is info on the net about how to do it.

Pete

I started to use the stock wiring and then bought a kit it was the best 250 I spent on the truck. if you have the time make one but It took me about 2 hours to put it in. I looked at the stock stuff longer then that.

Originally posted by Suprdlux


Since it is basically a DC circuit impedence really won't matter, but resistance will. All you need to do is learn how to solder with some proficiency. The computers are really not that sensitive to the voltage since it will tend to have to much voltage going in to the box and a regulator inside, but they are extremely sensitive to heat from a soldering iron so you need to be careful. Most ICs typically have a heating tolerence of a couple of seconds. It really isn't that hard to build a custom wiring harness. Good luck

:confused: What exactly are you trying to say here?:confused:

He will not be soldering to any IC's, the harness will be disconnected from the ECM.

Ok, I guess I should have stated it this way. Any extra resistance introduced to the circuit will create a greater voltage drop on that circuit. When the ECM is sensing circuits that vary during operation by tenths of a volt or less, then having the additional resistance by only a few ohms can cause strange things to happen........:beer:

If you are adapting the TBI to something other than the engine it came on, then the harness will be a bit different. There may not be controls for the egr, knock sensor, dist ref signal, ESC controls, may use a heated O2 sensor or a single wire. Guess what I am trying to say is, you need to know what controls and sensors the engine and comp will require, and make, buy aftermarket or modify a stock harness. You may be able to get away without egr and esc controls, but you will need a ref wire to the neg side of the coil to run the injectors. I think at a minimum, you will need to have a fuel pump relay, ref sig from coil, O2 sensor, tps, iac, injectors, crank sig from shunt on starter seleniod, cts, aldl connector, ses lamp, power for ECM from ignition signal, map sensor, fuel pump fuse and turn on sig, and maybe something else I may be forgetting. If you are not familiar with the TBI system, then goooood luck :nuke:

... soom good info for the DIY'er.

http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm/

cmk

Piece of cake, walk in the park....

www.howell-efi.com All you should need is the water temp sensor, MAP sensor, O2 sensor heated or non-heated depending how close you mount it to the exhaust port. The other items are attached to the TBI unit, ie: IAC, TPS You will only need a tach signal to the ECU so it can see RPM. Talk to Troy at Howell for a custom chip if necessary. If your engine is close to stock the stock programming will probably support your engine fine. :D

Originally posted by pcorssmit
I would suspect that you would also need a custom chip with your motor (345?).

You will also need to figure out how to combine the Chevy distributor internals and the IH distributor, I've never done one but there is info on the net about how to do it.

Pete

got a 304 and I how to adapt the chev stuf to controll the IH distributor

cool info guys


now I'm trying to make my mind up on to go with TBI or propain

You don't need to control the dizzy! All the system needs is an RPM signal. Not all GMs equipped with TBI used the ESC.

Originally posted by Ultim8kaos
You don't need to control the dizzy! All the system needs is an RPM signal. Not all GMs equipped with TBI used the ESC.

Which V8 ones didn't?

Pete

Pete
You got me on that one! :emb3: I really don't know which ones. I guess I was talking out my ass. :D I ass-umed the early ones like mid '80's? Nevermind, my bad. ESC was out before TBI right? Not really up on the GM stuff. That said though, I am running TBI on my 408" Ford engine with no spark control. I have an H.E.I. distributer, yes an HEI in a Ford!, with only a tach signal goin into the ECU.

wouldent it be better for it to controll the dizzy?

The only reason I can see to control the distributor is if you are using the knock sensors. That way if it sees detonation it will retard the timing. Don't see a problem with detonation unless you don't have the engine set up properly. :beer:
Do you really want knock sensors on the 'ol cornbinder?

Originally posted by Ultim8kaos

Do you really want knock sensors on the 'ol cornbinder?


what would be the problem of that

I don't think there would be a problem using the knock sensors per se, but you will have to mount them so they can "hear" the knock. Plus you still have the issue of controlling the dizzy in the binder. Don't know how you would go about that. It is just easier to keep things as simple as possible. Less things to go wrong and less to troubleshoot if the need arises. :D

Originally posted by Ultim8kaos
Plus you still have the issue of controlling the dizzy in the binder. Don't know how you would go about that.

well it's simple you get a megnetic pickup dizzy for the IH (you can convert them easly via a kit) then you take out the "branes" out of the GM dizzy and have it talk to the computer and the megnetic pickup in the IH dizzy. You mount the "brain" externaly from the IH dizzy

hmm this look to easy to be true to wire

http://atlas.binderbulletin.org/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=12536


but WTF is this crap ther is only one computer box

http://atlas.binderbulletin.org/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=12537

if you are still wondering about getting a new chip i dont think you will need one. keith and i just took my howell tbi off my 258 and wired it onto a buick 350 that is now in my cj.. we just started it today and it runs perfect
brian

Originally posted by btilton
if you are still wondering about getting a new chip i dont think you will need one. keith and i just took my howell tbi off my 258 and wired it onto a buick 350 that is now in my cj.. we just started it today and it runs perfect
brian

hmm good info

anyone know what thows other boxes are in the 2nd page???

Chief,
I am not up on GM acronyms but the pic of the ECM on both pages is shown with a dotted line. This usually means that the schematic for the part within the dotted lines is incomplete.(ie: not showing all connections) The combination of both pages for the ECM should be all the wiring for it. Don't know what TCC is but the other (GRAC?) looks as though it might be cruise control?

Its kind of hard to read, but I think it may be for the speedo drive. I don't know about the C/K trucks, but for sure the R/V trucks (Blazer, Sub, and Crew Cab) went to electronic speedos in '90. The conversions I've done were using the earlier '87-'89 setups, I'm not sure of the differences, but I've heard they are simpler than the newer setups.

If you are going to attempt this conversion, the first step is to throw that Haynes manual in the trash and get a HELM manual (the factory GM ones).

You will also need to hookup a speed sensor to the computer, the easiest way to do this is to purchase an aftermarket sender that goes inline on the speedo cable at the t-case, there are a few different places to get them and they're around $80. The factory ones are driven off an optical pickup inside the speedo (through '89) or take the place of the mechanical speedo cable hookup on the t-case ('90 and up) (Again, these years may vary for lines other than the R/V series trucks).

I would use all the sensors, etc that the factory uses. The only thing I don't run on mine is a smog pump (only certain TBI trucks used them, for example in '87 manual trans Blazers did and auto ones didn't) and the charcoal canister. Running w/no cats is not an issue either.

Try searching the board at ColoradoK5, there have been several posts about TBI conversions; although none of them binders, a lot of the info will still be relevant.

Pete

Originally posted by pcorssmit
Its kind of hard to read, but I think it may be for the speedo drive. I don't know about the C/K trucks, but for sure the R/V trucks (Blazer, Sub, and Crew Cab) went to electronic speedos in '90. The conversions I've done were using the earlier '87-'89 setups, I'm not sure of the differences, but I've heard they are simpler than the newer setups.

If you are going to attempt this conversion, the first step is to throw that Haynes manual in the trash and get a HELM manual (the factory GM ones).

You will also need to hookup a speed sensor to the computer, the easiest way to do this is to purchase an aftermarket sender that goes inline on the speedo cable at the t-case, there are a few different places to get them and they're around $80. The factory ones are driven off an optical pickup inside the speedo (through '89) or take the place of the mechanical speedo cable hookup on the t-case ('90 and up) (Again, these years may vary for lines other than the R/V series trucks).

I would use all the sensors, etc that the factory uses. The only thing I don't run on mine is a smog pump (only certain TBI trucks used them, for example in '87 manual trans Blazers did and auto ones didn't) and the charcoal canister. Running w/no cats is not an issue either.

Try searching the board at ColoradoK5, there have been several posts about TBI conversions; although none of them binders, a lot of the info will still be relevant.

Pete

yeah I figured that book was junk but it was just lying around

do I have to run a speed sencer cuz that would be a PITA due to difrent gears and tire size, I dont think my dads 89 2500 Van has one

You don't absolutly have to run a VSS (vehicle speed sensor), but you should. The aftermarket ones are easy to use.

If the van is TBI, then it has a speed sensor. I suspect it is incorporated in the speedo itself like the '89 R/V trucks, but it could be in the trans too (depending on whether the speedo is electronic or cable driven). As long as your speedo is some where close, you should be OK, it doesn't have to be tits-on. (I'm assuming here that the IH and GM speedos use the same rev/mile on the cable, if they don't one of the aftermarket companies should be able to help you, but most of that old school stuff is the same).

Pete

My dad just finished puttin TBI on his 55 willys, he used knock sensor and the whole nine yards, I havent been involved on the instal cause the bastard aint workin so hes at it during the day while I work, anyway, he cranked it up, and it wont idle, but it runs sweet if you give it gas, and it picks up revs fine and everything, when you put your foot in it it sounds great, but it wont idle, any suggestions there, he used all factory TBI components, harness and all. I am sure he'll figure it out, but if you guys can throw suggestions that would be cool

Listen to Pete, he knows his stuff and he helped me ALLOT getting my TBI sorted out. Also, if your going to fool with GM TBI, there is a book that was pointed out to me by BlazinOR. Get this (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/076030422X/ref=pd_bxgy_img_2/002-4932894-0772812) book if you want to understand how to make it work and to diagnose problems. Also check out WinALDL (http://w1.601.telia.com/~u60113744/software/winaldl/winaldl.htm) if you have access to a laptop.