I've resorted to extreme measures. I've created an 'access panel' from the cabin section to work on the LT-230. Pics will follow later...

Anyway, I'm having a hard time with the diff-lock staying engaged. I've taken off ALL linkages, have used a vice-grip to engage the diff-lock and it's still popping and grinding and jumping out of gear.

Is there any adjustment to the diff-lock engaging? I've looked at the manual, and aside from the engaging pin that swings with the tab on the end, I see no adjustment.

I'm going to take out the swing pin and see what it looks like.

This sucks...

Sounds like it's internal to the box and not linkage related?

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. I got two of the three bolts off to look at the selector pin, the third bolt don't wanna turn. I am afraid of stripping it.

The only adjustment to the difflock is the detent ball tension adjustment. The detent plug should be screwed in and backed out 2 turns. It is very easy to overtighten & damage the spring. Correctly adjusted, the plug will be basically flush with the case. The adjustment is located behind the diff lock switch on the front output housing. If the difflock moves ok but grinds during engagement and pops out under power, I'd suspect that the sliding collar for the dog clutch is in backwards. The groove for the selector fork is offset and the teeth inside have a backcut on the side that engages with the teeth on the front output shaft. The cut of the teeth pull it engaged under power. If it is installed backwards it will foul the case and not engage fully and the cut of the teeth on the front output will tend to push the collar out under power. If this box has been completely dismantled, I'd suspect that may be your problem. I'm not sure if you can confirm this by taking the diff lock shaft & cover off and looking inside the t-box. I'll look at one on the bench and see.


Ok, yes by taking the difflock shaft & cover out you can see the collar well enough with a flashlight to determine if it is in correctly. Do yourself a favor and have it out of difflock when you remove the 3 bolt cover...makes it easier to take apart and to see inside as the shaft will come out too.

Next you'll probably want pictures, too. :rolleyes:


OK,
Pic #1 is the hex plug detent adjustment.
Pic #2 hopefully shows the backcut on the teeth of the collar
Pic #3 shows the correct relative position of the collar and shift fork
Pic #4 shows the collar in the correct relative position on the front output shaft.

No, if I can get that damn third bolt out w/out stripping it, I'll take my own pics. :D

Thanks!

Oh, here's my latest 'mod'. :flipoff2:

http://www.tawayama.com/blog/LT230accesspanel.jpg

Pretty impressive access cover.

Wow, fast!

Is this something that I have to drop the t-case to remedy? PT had the case last, so I dunno if he tore it down or not (he'll chime in I'm sure...).

I have to teach tomorrow, and need to get ready for class, so I'm afraid I won't get to it until possibly Friday. :(

Thanks for the pics!

Pretty impressive access cover.

She cut like warm butter! :flipoff2:

If the collar is in backwards, hi/low shift housing has to come off and the front output housing will have to come off to repair it. I would take the t-case out. You may be able to get it off in the car but it will be harder...unless you cut a bigger hole in the floor. :flipoff2:

Here's the re-touched verson of that gear...also the second pic was kind of dark. Allow me... Shows the cut more betterly now.

Now that I've looked at your pics, I can see what is going on inside there. Pretty cool actually.

If the gear isn't engaging correctly, the swing arm wouldn't go over all the way right? It would allow that gear to slip, not only under power, but pretty much whenever right?

That's the way it's behaving right now.

I'm not going to drop the t-case again. Cutting the floor apart is much more appealing to me.

Yeah, if the collar is in backwards it will foul the case when diff lock is engaged and the teeth will only be about halfway engaged, allowing it to pop out. It's easier to see if you have all of the parts on the bench. The sliding collar slides back & forth on splines on the front of the center diff. When diff lock is disengaged, the collar is slid back onto the center diff and the front output shaft can rotate relative to the center diff. When the collar is slid forward it engages teeth on the front output shaft and couples the front output shaft to the center diff case, effectively locking the diff.

My disassembly of that case was limited to removign the neutral lockout solenoid to test for low range operation and removal of the bottom cover to inspect and compare to another one I wa shaving problems with. Otherwise, it's unmolested as far as I know.

It did come from a boneyard, but it was supposeldy a low mileage unit.

So...what do you think? Should I take it apart and look at it?

I'm kind of at a loss here...are there other bits that could be wrong that would give the same symptoms?

:confused:

If this unit came from a bone yard, there is no telling what happened to it....could have been apart for repairs at some point & not reassembled correctly. Could have been in an accident & damaged the case internally. I had one come in that was shipping or accident damaged. When I took it apart, the part of the casting just in front of the difflock mechanism that supports the front output shaft bearing had cracked. The piece hadn't come loose yet, but if it had, it might have produced a similar symptom. At this point, if the problem is still present with all of the linkage disconnected, the problem pretty much has to be internal in the box. I say R&R the box for a proper diagnosis.

Is there any chance that Mike can judge complete / partial engagement of the collar by the rotation of the selector?

Rob, you've had more of these on he bench than anyone else I know ... I don't think the selector rotates 90 degrees in normal operation ... Mike, any idea how much rotation you've got there ?

Thinking out loud again....

KAA

Is there any chance that Mike can judge complete / partial engagement of the collar by the rotation of the selector?

KAA

The diff lock selector fork is spring loaded to the rod. The diff lock selector shaft will turn and move the rod from one detent position to the other and load the spring. Once the teeth are lined up and nothing is under a bind the spring will push the selector fork and collar into position (locked or unlocked). This is why sometimes it takes a minute for difflock to engage or disengage when you use it. So, no, the travel & rotational position of the diff lock shaft will not give a valid indication of if & how far the fork & collar are moving.

Aha ... oh well, like I said, thinking (or not) out loud.

Hi before you go much further double check that you have set the linkage correctly. With a vice grip on the 8mm spigot rotate it fully clockwise, then move it counter clock one position, you can rotate it a further position counter clock just to confuse the unwary. Use only the first two positions ie fully clock and center, adjust the lever pivot point to accomodate this. Trying to go from fully clock to fully anti clock will compromise the adjustment and lead to jumping out of diff lock.
In-Cog-Nito

Hi before you go much further double check that you have set the linkage correctly. With a vice grip on the 8mm spigot rotate it fully clockwise, then move it counter clock one position, you can rotate it a further position counter clock just to confuse the unwary. Use only the first two positions ie fully clock and center, adjust the lever pivot point to accomodate this. Trying to go from fully clock to fully anti clock will compromise the adjustment and lead to jumping out of diff lock.
In-Cog-Nito

I'm in agreement with mr.flemming here. Exhaust all attempts at adjusting the linkeage before dissassembly. The pivot bolt (with an eye)may be a problem.

JP

Hi,

one thing not yet mentioned is the diff lock switch can stop the selector fork engaging diff lock either partially or fully, to check this just back the switch out a few turns to ensure it is clear,

The pivot bolt (with an eye)may be a problem.

JP

Mike and I already discussed this ad nauseum.

I had no idea that swapping a used transfer case for a blowed up engine would cause so much controversy.

Anyway, I'm having a hard time with the diff-lock staying engaged. I've taken off ALL linkages, have used a vice-grip to engage the diff-lock and it's still popping and grinding and jumping out of gear.

When I read this in his first post I conclude that the linkage and it's adjustment is not part of the problem. I think Mr. Ashcroft has a very good point that should be investigated. I went back to the original thread and looked at the pictures that Mike posted. The diff lock switch has been eliminated and replaced with a bolt to seal the hole. If the bolt is too long, the shift fork may be jamming against it and not engaging.

The linkages were all removed in order to:

a: see if there was any damage to the internal bushings inside the actual linkage portfion (there is)

and

b: to see if the diff-lock could be engaged w/out the use of the linkage (it can...but only partially)

Diff-lock never feels like it's fully engaged even when using a pair of vice-grips to turn the selector. It is apparent when it slips out of diff-lock very easily and/or grinds loudly while trying to engage after popping out.

I am wondering if that back-out gear has been damaged by not being fully engaged, being popped out possibly by linkage bumping against the center console? The result being that it won't engage into diff-lock fully at all now?

I agree, dissasembly is the act of last resort, but I need to get this truck back on the road and quit driving the CrewCab everywhere.

I can remove that pan-head bolt and see if that's the problem. I hope Rob is right.

EDIT: I now see that the bolt I installed to fill the diff-lock switch may have been too long. When I originally put it in place I *thought* that since it wasn't getting interference depth-wise, that there wouldn't be a problem. I did not know the internal workings enough to realize that there may be an interference problem front-to-back.

Unfortunately I'm away from home teaching this week, and won't be able to excercize any suggestions until Friday at the earliest...maybe even Saturday.

THANK YOU for the suggestions and helping me think this out loud.

RE-EDIT:

After looking and re-looking at all of my posts, taking a que from Ashtrans, I remembered something and wanted to ask opinions.

In the image of my t-case on the bench, there is a bolt with a washer directly behind the selector pin. I think I remember that bolt being a breather bolt? Here's the pic:

http://www.tawayama.com/blog/sealandstudinwithhammer.jpg

I also remember that if that bolt was a breather bolt, I was/am missing the banjo section that is supposed to go on it. Since I was missing the banjo section, I tightened it into the case to seal it off.

Now that I'm *starting* to understand what goes on inside there, I am wondering if that bolt is causing interference with the diff-lock selector lever.

Just a thought, and starting to remember some of the finer details.

driving the CrewCab everywhere.


Such statements are not going to get you any sympathy from this crew, much less lead to sales opportunities.

I wish I could drive my 109...

The more I think of it, the more I suspect your modifications may be responsible for your less than stellar success with this project. Had I known you needed the banjo bolt, I could have sent you one.

PT

Had I known you needed the banjo bolt, I could have sent you one.

Had I known I needed a banjo bolt, I'd have asked you for one. :flipoff2:

Can I have a banjo bolt?

If you are referring to this bolt in your picture than that is where the diff lock sensor goes.

http://homepage.mac.com/noahlmil/images/example_case2.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/noahlmil/images/example_case1.jpg

The banjo bolt breather threads into the top of the HI/LO selector housing that has been removed in my second picture.


EDIT: I found one of your pictures that showed the banjo bolt location.

http://homepage.mac.com/noahlmil/images/example_case3.jpg

AKRover has hit the nail on the head I think.

I don't know why I thought a banjo bolt went there...I think the bolt that was in there actually *was* a banjo bolt w/out the banjo stuff.

I'll take it out and see if I can't get her into diff-lock.

I like simple solutions...let's hope this is it. :shaking:

AKRover has hit the nail on the head I think.

I don't know why I thought a banjo bolt went there...I think the bolt that was in there actually *was* a banjo bolt w/out the banjo stuff.

I'll take it out and see if I can't get her into diff-lock.

I like simple solutions...let's hope this is it. :shaking:


The last picture that AKrover shows us does show the correct location of the banjo bolt. That banjo bolt should go to your breather line, for the transfer case. It is a fine thread bolt and won't likely interchange with something else by accident.

The bolt in place of your diff lock sensor seems more likely to be the culprit. I remember thinking that was a bad idea. Sometimes I see people install that sensor without the locknut that adjusts the height. Just tightening it in all the way will cause the problems that Rob is describing.



Remember, never jump the gun. Just put your hand on the trigger and aim. Until your opponent reveals itself.

JP

The last picture that AKrover shows us does show the correct location of the banjo bolt. That banjo bolt should go to your breather line, for the transfer case. It is a fine thread bolt and won't likely interchange with something else by accident.

The bolt in place of your diff lock sensor seems more likely to be the culprit. I remember thinking that was a bad idea. Sometimes I see people install that sensor without the locknut that adjusts the height. Just tightening it in all the way will cause the problems that Rob is describing.



Remember, never jump the gun. Just put your hand on the trigger and aim. Until your opponent reveals itself.

JP

When I installed my t-case I backed the diff lock switch out just enough so that is didn't make contact with the detentes on the rail that the shift fork is attached to.

I bet that's what's keeping the diff lock from engaging.



:laughing: I just noticed something funny in the picture where you have the linkage mocked up on the case.

It's on backwards. :flipoff2::laughing:

:laughing: I just noticed something funny in the picture where you have the linkage mocked up on the case.

It's on backwards. :flipoff2::laughing:

Yeah, I realized that when I installed the t-case...I think I even owned up to it in my post. My bad. :shaking:

It's nice that a complete amateur such as myself can rely on the boundless wisdom of the PBB to help me e-troubleshoot my own mistakes.

Thanks again.

I'll give it a go later this week.

I'm still excited about my access panel though...you never know when it'll come in handy. :flipoff2:

So I got some time today to look at the t-case. Apparently Ashtrans and Roadsiderob were right, so we all owe them a debt of gratitude.

I pulled out that bolt and voila, the t-case works properly. A-freakin'-mazing if you ask me. Something so simple caused such a huge PITA.

Tomorrow I'll get a very short bolt to replace there and fill the hole, button it back up and call it good (hopefully).

I did slightly enlarge the t-case shifter hole, and might actually use the rubber shift-boot. If I do anything 'interesting', I'll be sure to document.

Glad to hear you got it working. Mr. Ashcroft gets the credit here...I just agreed with him.

So I got some time today to look at the t-case. Apparently Ashtrans and Roadsiderob were right, so we all owe them a debt of gratitude.

I pulled out that bolt and voila, the t-case works properly. A-freakin'-mazing if you ask me. Something so simple caused such a huge PITA.

Tomorrow I'll get a very short bolt to replace there and fill the hole, button it back up and call it good (hopefully).

I did slightly enlarge the t-case shifter hole, and might actually use the rubber shift-boot. If I do anything 'interesting', I'll be sure to document.

Whew, I was afraid I was gonna have to move to Oregon again so I could give you back your engine:flipoff2:

The access panel proved very helpful when I went to adjust the linkage. I was able to fine-tune it tooth by tooth to get just the exact throw on the high-low and diff-lock. MUCH easier than working from below.

Rivited it back together, got everything back in place today, and even cleaned it up a bit.

http://www.tawayama.com/blog/rivitedpanelRRC.jpg

I'm *considering* fabbing up a complete replacement from the stereo to the cubby. Aluminum covered with leopard skin. Any interest?

:flipoff2:

Didi you put a custom bend in the t-case lever? Looks like it bends towards the transmission shifter, I don't remember mine doing that.

I'm *considering* fabbing up a complete replacement from the stereo to the cubby. Aluminum covered with leopard skin. Any interest?

:flipoff2:

Hell yes.
But only if it's long hair polyester leopard skin.

Didi you put a custom bend in the t-case lever? Looks like it bends towards the transmission shifter, I don't remember mine doing that.

Nope, that's how it came.

Dougal, when can I expect your deposit. :grinpimp:

"I'm *considering* fabbing up a complete replacement from the stereo to the cubby. Aluminum covered with leopard skin. Any interest?"

I'm in! Can I get SNOW Leopard skin!!!

Man I love a happy ending!!

Nope, that's how it came.

Dougal, when can I expect your deposit. :grinpimp:

Keep an eye out for flaming paper bags on your doorstep, it'll be inside.:smokin:

Thanks for making me laugh...that's twice this morning.

You're laughing over here in your Leopard skin boxers
But Kevin needs your help desperately over here!!!

"Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinNY
I am working on an adaptor to convert SAE to Metric vice grips. It is in developement now and being tested by the British School of Science and Bitter. Torsional rigidity and corrections for the coreolis effect have presented challenges in the design but I hope to bring it to the market this summer, price will be around 300 dollars and will be photographed and sold exclusively through Expedition Exchange."