Starting to think about how I'm going to mount the 203/205 in my SII. If you've got a 203/205 in your SII, post up some pics of your installation and crossmember(s).

Starting to think about how I'm going to mount the 203/205 in my SII. If you've got a 203/205 in your SII, post up some pics of your installation and crossmember(s).

I have a 203/300 but it wouldn't matter, the adapter has mounting points that I used.

http://whiteknucklemotorsports.net/gallery2/d/18515-2/IMG_3524.JPG

http://whiteknucklemotorsports.net/gallery2/d/18575-1/2006_nov9_+014.jpg

http://whiteknucklemotorsports.net/gallery2/d/18928-1/2007_jan_14_+054.jpg

oh yea, I got an 80, not an SII but still ;)

Well, that kind of answers one of my questions... with the 203 in the "stock" rotation, it looks like the crossmember will be lower than the bottom of the frame rails. No more flat belly.

When I orderd up the doubler kit, I talked with ORD about crossmembers and he gave me some tips:

Make sure the engine mounts are stiffer than the tranny/t-case mounts.
Try to eliminate as much frame flex as possible.
I was specifically advised NOT to mount the crossmember as you did (bushing at the frame rails).

According to ORD, #3 is leading reason for drivetrain breakage due to flexing. The bushings at the frame have too much leverage on them which allows for too much drivetrain flex causing something to break. Also, by hard mounting the crossmember to the frame, it acts as a stiffener to reduce frame flex. ORD specifically adivised hard mounting the the crossmember and putting the mounting bushings between the t-case and the crossmember.

I'm thinking about mounting the crossmember to the frame like you did, except using through bolts in DOM tubing to make it a hard mount. This will make the crossmember hang down a little lower, though, since there will be a bushing between the adapter mount and the crossmember. I'm also thinking about picking up the mounting feet on the TH400/203 adapter and the mounting feet on the 203/205 adapter. Then tie the two crossmembers together to form a "ladder" type crossmember. Probably include a loop hanging off the back of the crossmember as a skid plate to help protect the 205.

I ordered the 203/205 adapter with the 205 clocked 2" up so that it is flat with the bottom of the 203..

for one the SII is probably different and since I am running a ford 5.0 my height really is nothing like what yours will be. Interesting point on the crossmember. I actually bolted to the TOP of that reciever tubing so really I could lift the crossmember up but with I might do is mount it to the bottom and add rubber bushings on the bolts, so help with the solid mount that your talking about. I dunno, I think those bolts will strip out of the alluminum before the case breaks but I don't know for sure. I better send my pics to the guys at northwest fab..

BTW that style of mounting is very common for toyota's which have an alluminum case and I have never seen one crack (not saying they don't but..). Theirs actually bolts to the back of the case solid mount and them bushing to the frame. That might be different since it kinda supports the case though..

http://www.whiteknucklemotorsports.net/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=69&Itemid=2

I can flip my 203 if I want, or point the 300 anywhere I want, I like the multiple bolt hole options with the northwest kit :)

I could have orderd the doubler adapter with whatever rotation I wanted on either box, but once it's ordered, it is what it is. I chose the ORD adapter because it was a solid, one-piece design. Different strokes.......

I didn't have a 203/205, but I did put a 203/D300 into Rusty. The coverage is on page 18 of the build thread (in my sig). Here's what the crossmember ended up looking like
Built
http://www.dandcextreme.com/upload/rusty383.jpg

Painted
http://www.dandcextreme.com/upload/rusty384.jpg

In
http://www.dandcextreme.com/upload/rusty385.jpg
http://www.dandcextreme.com/upload/rusty386.jpg

There is a completed picture in that thread lower on the page, but I think you get the idea...

Heres mine when I first installed it. I installed real bushing of course. I welded flat bar on the bottom of the frame, I then drilled and tapped...http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=189456

That's pretty much what I had in mind, Randy, including some sort of ramps fore and aft of the crossmembers to help it slide over stuff. Do you recall what app those bushings are for?

Here's a pic of Abba's 203/205 setup. I don't know Abba personally and have never seen his rig so I can't give anymore info. From my experience with my klune/205 I don't see any reason why you can't have a flat undercarriage.

Abba builds his junk well & wheels pretty well too.:flipoff2:

Interesting how the 205 isn't clocked much.

That's pretty much what I had in mind, Randy, including some sort of ramps fore and aft of the crossmembers to help it slide over stuff. Do you recall what app those bushings are for?


I ended up finding bushings that were hard like body mount pucks but were smaller. Those that are in the pics were springs bushings cut down. They had to much movement. I think that caused the first tranny case break. Also, try and match what is on the engine to what you have on the t-cases.

The only problem I have had with my tranny crossmember is that I have smashed the heads on those bolts before. Never had an issue getting them out though. I think with the plate I welding on the bottom of the frame I ended up with about 3/4 " of threads. As you can tell by the pics my t-cases are well above the bottom of the frame. I also added the upper mount on the 205 that is located between the body and the frame. Easy accsess with an extension from the side.


http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=452470

This is crossmember for my 465/D18.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j95/mochamike/T_Crossmember1.jpg

Next years doubler will be similar.

I ended up finding bushings that were hard like body mount pucks but were smaller. Those that are in the pics were springs bushings cut down. They had to much movement. I think that caused the first tranny case break. Also, try and match what is on the engine to what you have on the t-cases.

The only problem I have had with my tranny crossmember is that I have smashed the heads on those bolts before. Never had an issue getting them out though. I think with the plate I welding on the bottom of the frame I ended up with about 3/4 " of threads. As you can tell by the pics my t-cases are well above the bottom of the frame. I also added the upper mount on the 205 that is located between the body and the frame. Easy accsess with an extension from the side.


http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=452470

I don't expect the t-cases to extend below the bottom of the frame rails like Abba's does, but crossmember will be below the frame rails. That's what I was referring to early when I said I won't have a flat belly anymore.

I'm not sure your application is a straight apples to apples comparison with my setup since you have a different power plant swapped it that may not be the same height as my stock IH setup.

Right now, I have spring shackle bushings (the hard polyurethane type) for engine mounts.

This is mine with klune and 205
Heavy som bitch..... I have pivoted on this bitch many of times and not a single dent. There are 2 cross members and the skid plate unbolts, plus no exposed bolts on the underside to catch rocks on. The rear crossmember also holds the anti-wrap bar.
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c101/scout254/PB020015.jpg

Nice skid plate, but it looks like you lost a shit load of ground clearance. How is your 205 clocked? Mine is clocked almost the same as it was from the factory (Ford 205 though) and it's dead even with the bottom of the frame rails. Fortunately, my engine sits high enough to keep the drivetrain parallel with the frame.

Nice skid plate, but it looks like you lost a shit load of ground clearance. How is your 205 clocked? Mine is clocked almost the same as it was from the factory (Ford 205 though) and it's dead even with the bottom of the frame rails. Fortunately, my engine sits high enough to keep the drivetrain parallel with the frame.

Got ya sidetracked, I have an scout80:grinpimp:

I had to lower the tc a little bit for the rear driveline angle, even with High Angles 30 degree driveline.

With your scoutII... you have a better wheelbase to handle the driveline angles. It's how high you have it lifted too.:smokin:

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c101/scout254/PB010022-1.jpg

Good pics... given me some good ideas.

My 203 will be in the factory position, but my 205 will be clocked 2" up so that it's flat with the bottom of the 203.

Edit... According to ORD, #3 is leading reason for drivetrain breakage due to flexing. The bushings at the frame have too much leverage on them which allows for too much drivetrain flex causing something to break. Also, by hard mounting the crossmember to the frame, it acts as a stiffener to reduce frame flex. ORD specifically adivised hard mounting the the crossmember and putting the mounting bushings between the t-case and the crossmember.


Wow, never knew you did not want to mount bushings on the cross member ends. Every stock cross member I've seen is bolted to the frame and bushing under the tranny / t-case, so that make sense. When I did use bushing I like the 1.5" YJ bushing and DOM tube from WFO (http://www.wfoconcepts.com/) They don't list them on their web page, but it's the Shackle mounts without the flat part welded on. You can get them with either 1/2 or 9/16 sleeve for about $12-$14 The tube is cut on a lathe and they cam-fer the edge smooth. They are cut to the correct length to work with the sleeve. The bushing are Daystar and are softer, vs the rock hard ones. Not that your going to be using them for this app. but still a good way to mount other items. (skid plate, posion spyder tire carrier knock off)

Don't forget the stock GM 205 has a "foot" that mounts to the frame to help control torque (twisting of the case)

...Don't forget the stock GM 205 has a "foot" that mounts to the frame to help control torque (twisting of the case)

That depends on the application. For instance, on the K30 we pulled my 205 from, that "foot" was mounted to a bar that had the other end mounted to the TH400. It's purpose was to prevent flex and torque of the t-case relative to the transmission, but was not connected to the frame.

With your scoutII... you have a better wheelbase to handle the driveline angles. It's how high you have it lifted too.:smokin:

aren't they the same wheelbase?

As far as I know they are the same wheelbase in stock form. There is more rear overhang on an SII which will allow you to move things around some. In my case, I plan on moving the rear axle back about 6-7" from stock and move the front axle forward about 3" from stock. Shooting for approx. 110" wheelbase when I'm done.

aren't they the same wheelbase?

you might have me on that one, I didn't bother to check:D

Here's mine using the stock crossmember. I'm runnin a modified IH T-19/Ford 203/Ford 205 mounted inverted. Kept my flat skid on the bottom of the frame rails and has worked out pretty well for the past 6 years.:smokin:

http://members.cox.net/jtolly/images/slipscomb/images/slipscomb023.jpg

http://members.cox.net/jtolly/images/slipscomb/images/slipscomb022.jpg

http://members.cox.net/jtolly/images/slipscomb/images/slipscomb026.jpg

http://members.cox.net/jtolly/images/slipscomb/images/slipscomb036.jpg

Had to cut the floorboard out though, to clear the cases and have an easy access for maintenance which has only been to top the fluids off after a roll.

Sean

Wow... I never would have thought that hanging that much weight off the stock crossmember without any other supports or braces would have survived for 6 years. That's a LOT of leverage.

Wow... I never would have thought that hanging that much weight off the stock crossmember without any other supports or braces would have survived for 6 years. That's a LOT of leverage.

The stock crossmember is supported by the full belly skid underneath.I have had to replace the stock rubber tranny mount a few times. I also drilled the bolt holess out on the factory rubber mount to half inch.

Sean

Brandon asked me to chime in on this post a little while ago. I will agree with all of these points mentioned other than I don't feel it is necessary to have your engine mounts stiffer than the tranny/t-case mounts. What I like to see on a build is the exact same material being used in every mount.



Make sure the engine mounts are stiffer than the tranny/t-case mounts.
Try to eliminate as much frame flex as possible.
I was specifically advised NOT to mount the crossmember as you did (bushing at the frame rails).



Brandon, definitly change your mounting set-up as I would hate to see you crack your drivetrain on the trail once everything starts flexing.

Max, NWF

well my engine mounts are the same as my tranny mount :p

bummer, what if I just squeeze a rubber bushing between the plate and my crossmember for a cheap fix. Thanks for chiming in!

This is not the kind of problem you want to address with a cheap fix. Trust me when your bellhousing cracks it won't look so cheap anymore lol.

ok, how do you reccomend I mount it? There are two holes on that adapter, how did you intend them to be used?

If your motor mounts have more flex than your trans/T-case mount something will break.

Brandon asked me to chime in on this post a little while ago. I will agree with all of these points mentioned other than I don't feel it is necessary to have your engine mounts stiffer than the tranny/t-case mounts. What I like to see on a build is the exact same material being used in every mount.




Brandon, definitly change your mounting set-up as I would hate to see you crack your drivetrain on the trail once everything starts flexing.

Max, NWF

I appreciate your input Max, thanks. But I still don't think it's just as simple as using all the same mount. The theory behind making the engine mounts stiffer than the trans/t-case mounts has to do with leverage. Of course, each setup is different, but usually, the engine mounts are loacted farther away from the center line of the drivetrain than the t-case mounts. Even if they are all the same material, there is a longer lever arm working on the engine mounts than the trans/t-case mounts. This means they will likely deflect more.

Now, following that same line of reasoning, if the engine mounts are out at the frame rails (like IH does) and so are the trans/t-case mounts (like Brandon's) and they are all the same material, it should be good. All that is nice theory, but I have no practical experience to backup one way over the other.... the point I mention above are advice given to me from ORD.

On another note... I got the call from ORD today and my Doubler® shipped out today. :bounce2: :bounce: :bounce2: :bounce: :bounce2:
My triple stick isn't done yet, though, and should ship out next week.

I don't see why putting a half inch of rubber below the two mounts IN ADDITION to the rubber frame mounts would still be bad - someone convince me I should do something else if they think I should.. I'd like to put this part to sleep - I have plenty of other irons in the fire ;)

Brandon asked me to chime in on this post a little while ago. I will agree with all of these points mentioned other than I don't feel it is necessary to have your engine mounts stiffer than the tranny/t-case mounts. What I like to see on a build is the exact same material being used in every mount.




Brandon, definitly change your mounting set-up as I would hate to see you crack your drivetrain on the trail once everything starts flexing.

Max, NWF


Please excuse the hi jack.
Max, for your info I did exactly as you specified here. I am running your doubler kit also.
Honestly I had concerns with it being a clock-able aluminum kit. I expected it by now to just break in half and fall out.

If you don't know I run a 6-71 blown 490 CI BBC, 4l80, 203-205.
I have ran it now for over a year and have had ZERO issues with anything in the drivetrain. Nothing at all has loosened up. I check everything after every time I wheel.

So your suggestions for "YOUR" doulbler kit works properly. I am very happy with it.:)
I also don't break transmissions in 1/2 anymore too.:D

Edit...
Max, your suggestions for "YOUR" doubler kit works properly. I am very happy with it.:)
I also don't break transmissions in 1/2 anymore too.:D

Shadow man post a pic of your setup:D

I just replaced my worn-out tranny mount with a RPT (Race Proven Technology)mount and it comes with sleeves that go over the bolts. The Cross member has oval holes which allow the tranny to move a bit side to side and front to back on hard impacted maybe 1/8". The sleeves prevent over tighting.

Yep that 2x1/4 flat bar is a quick skid plate I slap on before the fall Rubicon run :shaking:

You use a tape measure and some thinkin skills.

Comeon! its just some frame rails and some tcases.

jeez

:flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:
gettin ya back