I was told by a knowledgeable source at work that I need 4 binders attaching my truck to the trailer to be legal, I cannot run only one binder at each end as I have usually done. For example I cannot "legally" run a single chain up from the left side of my trailer through my center D ring back down to the right side of my trailer using only one binder on the chain. Legally I need to put binders on both sides between the D ring and the trailer. I know there are a few cops on this board and I would appreciate it if they would share their knowledge, or anyone else that has had experience with this. My coworker was hauling a backhoe with a company vehicle (PG&E) and said the highway patrol pulled him over because they could not see all his chain binders.

Don't know about CA but here I've hauled a bobcat and a terrahoe with one long tiedown at each end.
Hooked on the trailer, wrapped around frame and back down to the trailer at each end.
Both were loaded up at the local rental yard.
Seen a lot of dozers and backhoes loaded with one chain at each end too.

correct way to secure a vehicle is from unsprung mount, like on difs.
otherwise it will pound up and down against line/chain.

search google with 'load securement' 'DOT' 'NTSB'
the regs are up there somewhere

Originally posted by mj
correct way to secure a vehicle is from unsprung mount, like on difs.
otherwise it will pound up and down against line/chain.



Take a look at a car hauler, they always secure to the frame.
Securing to the frame and tightening the tiedown enough to sag the springs give the tiedown a preload and helps to keep things tight.
Doing the same over an unsprung mount (ie. axle) means you have to make things a lot tighter to get the same effect.

I've always used 4, 2 in back, 2 in front, and crossed them from left/right. Hook the straps to the frame and tighten down and load the suspension up.

If you look at how most load car haulers, they actually tighten until they hit the bumpstops.

Military spec (per that little pdf file that got distributed around) pretty much calls for 4 tie downs, beit chain or strap or cable.

I have hauled stuff for years with one binder. Fasten chain to trailer and around diff at one end, hop in and back up to tighten the front, lock the brake and tie down the rear with a ratchet binder! Don't really know if it is legal or not, but it works great!!!



:beer: :beer: :beer:

i must be a redneck. i have always thrown a chain over the rear axle and connected it to the trailer and then pull it tight with a come-a-long from the trailer to an axle strap on the front axle. done it for years without a problem.

binding to the diff is a real good way to bend a housing,unless you have a rockwell:D .

Originally posted by larryboy
binding to the diff is a real good way to bend a housing,unless you have a rockwell:D .

with the way i beat my jeep the last thing my 14bolt and dana60 have to worry about is being strapped to a trailer.:D

[QUOTE]Originally posted by high5
[B]i must be a redneck :D :D :D .


you said it:D :D .just noticed your upside down pose,may as well just throw a chain over the hood(if you have one)wind it around the cage and cinch it down:D :D .

Originally posted by larryboy
[QUOTE]Originally posted by high5
[B]i must be a redneck :D :D :D .


you said it:D :D .just noticed your upside down pose,may as well just throw a chain over the hood(if you have one)wind it around the cage and cinch it down:D :D .

it might scratch my paint:flipoff2:

you painted your chains??? thats :rainbow:

Sawzall...
I am a state L.E.O. for N.C. with a specialty in federal motor carrier saftey regs. To answer your question you were told right. For example say you were hauling 10,000 LBS. on your trailer. You would have to secure half that weight in any given direction. So what im saying is that you need to have binders or chain which ever is the lesser strength of the 2 , be able to control 5000lbs from left to right and front to rear to be legall, I know that just 1 rachet binder will hold the entire weight but it doesnt meet the rrequirements in all fifty states so if you were in an accident and the thing comes off the trailer and you didnt have the approperiate tie downs you would be held liable both civily as well as criminally. Also in order to figure what the binders are good for you go by the working load limit that is stamped on all binders or chain size is by size and grade for tensile strength.:D

whats a LEO?

I know for a fact he could use 1 binder per if he threw the chain over the top from 1 side to the other. so whats the difference?

"binding to the diff is a real good way to bend a housing,unless you have a rockwell "
just how FAWKIN tight do you strap your $hit down?

just because a hack car hauler hooks to the chassis doesnt mean it is correct.
I have hauled trucks and in my experience the suspension allowed to move with the difs strapped was much better

Originally posted by mj


just because a hack car hauler hooks to the chassis doesnt mean it is correct.
I have hauled trucks and in my experience the suspension allowed to move with the difs strapped was much better

I'm talking new car hauler as in delivered from the factory to a dealership near you. Not some flatbed wrecker driver.
Ever notice the oblong holes in your frame??? That's where the T-hooks on the ratchet tie downs attatch when it was on the back of the semi OR a railroad car for that matter.
If the engineers designed them into the frame they gotta be good for sumthin.:flipoff2:

LEO is law enforcement officer..... i use 2 straps per axle and i tie the axle down..... imho the only way to do it....

Oh, cool. So it's time again for the weekly "how to tie down a rig" debate. Wow, time sure flies! I thought that was tomorrow at the earliest...

Ok, I'll throw in again with the "tie down the axles and let the suspension deal with the body" crowd.

Anyone changing sides this week? :D

Originally posted by BadDog
Oh, cool. So it's time again for the weekly "how to tie down a rig" debate. Wow, time sure flies! I thought that was tomorrow at the earliest...

Ok, I'll throw in again with the "tie down the axles and let the suspension deal with the body" crowd.

Anyone changing sides this week?



nope i aint changing sides....... axle tiedown is the best way inho! :D

you ever notice that car haulers also use the vehicles wheels to help keep the vehicle from moving front to back?

Originally posted by larryboy
you painted your chains??? thats :rainbow:

the only paint on my chains is the paint accumulated from dragging accross my 14bolt.:D

I worked for a rental place for a year and I cant even think of how many tractors I sent out with one chain and binder on each end. I cant believe that a company could do that much business and never have a problem with it not being legal. I tey to use 4 on my own rigs though but they are staps. I always tie to the axle, why do they make axle straps if youre supposed to tie to the frame?

Since I drive truck here's the way i'd have to tie loads down on a flatbed.

DOT regulations are based on the working load limit of your tie downs. To secure a load you need the working load limit of your straps, chains, wire rope, or other devices to add up to the weight of the load.

Wait a minure, you say -- half the weight of the load? Thats because each tiedown is secured in two places. Visualize a 100 pound bagel suspended by a chain form the ceiling in two places. Each side of the chain is holding 50 pounds. if it were a single chain hangin from the ceiling, it would be holding the entire100 pound of bagel on one point and therefore would have to be twice as strong.

You take the manifested weight of the load and divide it in half - because you use 2 tiedown points. so if your load weighs 50,000 pounds, you need to figure the tiedown for 25,000 pounds. Say your strap is rated for 4,000 puonds, you would divide 25,000 by 4,000 to determine the number of straps. You'd come up with 6.25, so you would need atleast seven straps.

You're also required to have one tiedown every 10 feet.

In the military when we tiedown a hummer on a flatbed there is 2 tiedowns front and back we either run one chain through both and cross them, or we use two chains one in each tiedown bring it back on itself and cross the two.

On a car hauler they put T hooks through the frame and colapse the suspension.

For your basic car trailer I'd just loop the chain over the Axle and hook the ends of the chains to the corners of the trailer. Or they have wheel straps but don't count on finding on to fit a truck tire.

P.S. these rules mean nothing unless you have CDL. I have to have a license to haul more than one trailer, farmer dickweed can haul as many as he whats. Or guy in pickup pulling 30' camper and behind that a bass boat... you've seen it!

So thats the legal way. But because you're not a truck driver you don't have to follow rules!
damn fourwheelers :mad:

four wheeler as in cars pickups anything that doesn't require a CDL to drive

"I'm talking new car hauler as in delivered from the factory to a dealership near you. Not some flatbed wrecker driver.
"

yeah so was I, I know several, they are hacks, guess I shouldnt say that about Teamster Brothers tho

maybe i should say which axles i wouldn't bind with a chain over the diff.

toyota
suzuki
ford 9"

and NO i'm not changing sides:D .

L.E.O = Law Enforcement Officer

I dont give a shit if you want to use no tiedowns its your life and everone else around you. The more the better you can never have to many. If you want to be safe abide by the federal motor carrier saftey regs. 49CFR. otherwise you will be liable for the load . If you abide by the regulations at least they cant say you didnt try. It only takes a few more minutes to put extra tiedowns on it, and they way I look at my toyota as a investment for fun not to have tore all to hell on they highway and hurt someone because I was to damn lazy to put a couple extra tiedowns on!:rasta:

safety chain the hitch while you're at it all you have to do is cross the chains so it it uncouples while rolling it falls on the chains not the road. I saw some yuppie pulling his boad and didn't cross the chains, tounge hit the pavement and gouged in and about flipped needless to say he broke the chains, and the boat ended up in the ditch luckly.

so cross those damn chains!

Why not just pull the rig up on the trailer throw it in gear and take off.....



BWAWAWAWAWAWAWAWWAWA:flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:


yea i know i need a few :beer: :beer: :beer:

I use fishing line to hold my rig down. It's worked well so far.

My personal theory has always been "If you have to ask if you have enough straps on it, you don't." I'm a big fan of over-securing loads. To many straps never hurts, but not enough can make a big mess.

I use large ratchet straps at each corner and 2 safety chains in case the straps or ratchets fail. Some have said it to be overkill but I'd prefer that over underkill and loose my rig off the back of a trailer. In the tow industry you must have 2 chains rear, 2 safety chains front and 2 tie downs front, that's why when I tie mine down I do it as required by law for a flatbed tow truck. You cannot use one continuious chain at any end either incase of failure of one of the chains, that way the remaining chains will keep the vehicle on the flatbed/trailer. The large ratchet straps are a legal alternative as long as they meet the load rating requirements for the load/vehicle.

If you are really worried about it, contact a local state trooper. 90% of the loads running up and down the road are not secured in a fashion that is considered appropriate by the state dot office. There are a lot of rules and regs that the officer left out(I have a feeling that he is aware of the relatively short attentin span of some people on this bb).

I moved yellow iron for the first 4 years I worked, and was probably only legal once or twice. But, with the organization I work for now, we are forced to abide by all applicable federal and state motor vehicle laws in order to maintain our emergency permits. And I assure you for every law or reg a professional driver knows, there are three he or she is ignorant of.

one in each corner.

Here in Tn. it is 4 pts. for tie down .

In NC, its a minimum of two tie downs and an additional one per 10 feet. I personally like to avoid being pulled over by the DOT cops, so I run four, secure to the frame, compress the suspension and I'm off.

There is another thread in the towing area, so I'll stop with "secure sprung weight...blah, blah, blah". Car haulers are hacks? Maybe, but what are we? The moral of the story is don't kill yourself or anyone else while hauling. If you don't know how to bind something down to transport, just ask. And if in doubt, add more straps/chains/bubblegum.

Would the pro car hauler be more inclined to suck the frame down to the bumpstops to account for how tightly they pack the cars in? As in, they don't want the body moving on the suspension and rubbing on anything. I know if the car is damaged in transit, depending on the amount of damage, it's a logistical nightmare to get it fixed. The factory doesn't want it back and the dealership rarely can fix it well enough to sell as new.

On link suspensions, if you use the axle housings as your attachment point and then like most of us, cinch it down as tight as possible, you are really stretching the rig out against the joints in the links. Next thing you do is take off down the highway and the rig now bounce up and down and really wears on the joints.

I know some guys with the long arm suspensions that have increased the amount of maintenance they have to perform on their links since they started trailering.

Why not a headache bar at the centerline of the front tires, pull up tight against it and strap the tire to it? Couple of custom wheel nets for the rear axle and all should be good.

Originally posted by mrblaine
Would the pro car hauler be more inclined to suck the frame down to the bumpstops to account for how tightly they pack the cars in? As in, they don't want the body moving on the suspension and rubbing on anything. I know if the car is damaged in transit, depending on the amount of damage, it's a logistical nightmare to get it fixed. The factory doesn't want it back and the dealership rarely can fix it well enough to sell as new.

On link suspensions, if you use the axle housings as your attachment point and then like most of us, cinch it down as tight as possible, you are really stretching the rig out against the joints in the links. Next thing you do is take off down the highway and the rig now bounce up and down and really wears on the joints.

I know some guys with the long arm suspensions that have increased the amount of maintenance they have to perform on their links since they started trailering.

Why not a headache bar at the centerline of the front tires, pull up tight against it and strap the tire to it? Couple of custom wheel nets for the rear axle and all should be good.

Well.. lets put it this way. Every regulation I have seen, all the military loading specs I have seen. They all call for the frame to be tied down, not the axles.

Sorry, I'll take multiple agencies word on this one instead of some off-roaders opinions. ;) :flipoff2:

Think of this though... tie the axles down with a really flexy suspension. When you corner you will notice the rig has a tendancy to lean/move on its own even though the axles are tied down. Now, imagine an emergency manuever, you have that x,000lbs of weight doing it's own thing behind you while you are also trying to control the trailer. that weight shifting around WILL affect performance.

The car haulers cinch the frames down tight to stop any and all movement. The only secure load is a load that doesn't move around on ya. ;)

I usually use one at every corner, making sure to secure the load from font/back and side/side movement. Tie downs are only $25 ea at your local TSC, the nightmare that would follow killing someone due to negligence would surely cost more than $50.

Bryan

Jeff why are you asking how many binders you need? Your Jeevotauick is fawkin in pieces? did you buy something you're not telling us about? :flipoff2:

*edit haha i just noticed this post is a year and a half old... oh well. Sheet I don't even think sawzall (jeff) even still has a computer. [shrug]

How hard is it to get this right damn!!!!! we all build rigs and most all of us trailer at some point and time so how hard is it to just add 4 tie down points to your rigs and compress them down with 4 points 1 on each corner. this is not a hard concept. The neglect of people who are to lazy to use the correct rigging on a trailer should bashed by the law...... heavily.:mad:

I was using 4 binders and setting up my chains to be 4 independent attachments. I found it extremely time consuming to get it 'just right' and as soon as i took off and drove 5 feet everything was loose again. This was with 2 of the traditional lever style binders and 2 of the big ass adjustable ones with acme threads. you definately need 4 adjustable binders if you want 4 separate attachments.

I now just use 1 lever binder on one chain and 1 adjustable binder on the other chain, both chains are attached in 2 places. I can get it good and tight and it stays that way! It's also very easy to tighten the load up whenever you stop.

I didn't feel safe with the attachment points on the frame only. Bumps make the suspension compress and when it springs back up that was a much worse feeling than the body roll from attaching to the axles.

I was thinking about setting up some attachments between the axles and the frame. I think that in addition to attachments on the axles would tow very nice.

Four tie downs. This is how you should think of it. If you were going down the freeway at 70 mph and got in a crash and your trailer flipped over will your cargo (rig) stay on the trailer. If you answered no. You don't have enough tie downs. ENOUGH SAID

Originally posted by Travis Waldher


Well.. lets put it this way. Every regulation I have seen, all the military loading specs I have seen. They all call for the frame to be tied down, not the axles.

Think of this though... tie the axles down with a really flexy suspension. When you corner you will notice the rig has a tendancy to lean/move on its own even though the axles are tied down. Now, imagine an emergency manuever, you have that x,000lbs of weight doing it's own thing behind you while you are also trying to control the trailer. that weight shifting around WILL affect performance.


The really flexing suspension in the hauled rig is going to act just like it does when you're driving it and need to take evasive action.

My problem with comparing OUR rigs and hauling with "car hauler companies" is that the car haulers are hauling *STOCKERS*.. so is the military.

It's OK to suck it down to the bump stops and call it good. That's the only way *I* would haul a vehicle with the frame secured - if it was down to the bump stops.

I'll haul road-race cars like that.

But on a tall, soft suspension rig?

No way.

First, you have to compress the springs a FOOT or more, and second, imagine how hard that is on your springs? It's like landing a big jump, but instead of an instant shock, it's continous for the entire length of the towing trip.

And if you don't suck it down *TO THE STOPS* it's GOING to wiggle and bounce and jump off the damn trailer.. and that's NOT a fun thing to see in your rearview mirror.. BTDT, won't chain to the frame again.

I've never had a problem with my Scout trying to jump off the trailer since I started chaining the axles down.

I have no problems with the Scout leaning a little around the corners n' such. That's why it has a suspension.

Then again, I'm not using a worn-out SWB 1/2T to haul with, either..

But you could easily have a deckover and clear ANY low bridge!

:laughing:



OK, wasn't funny. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by tsm1mt


The really flexing suspension in the hauled rig is going to act just like it does when you're driving it and need to take evasive action.

My problem with comparing OUR rigs and hauling with "car hauler companies" is that the car haulers are hauling *STOCKERS*.. so is the military.

It's OK to suck it down to the bump stops and call it good. That's the only way *I* would haul a vehicle with the frame secured - if it was down to the bump stops.

I'll haul road-race cars like that.

But on a tall, soft suspension rig?

No way.

First, you have to compress the springs a FOOT or more, and second, imagine how hard that is on your springs? It's like landing a big jump, but instead of an instant shock, it's continous for the entire length of the towing trip.

And if you don't suck it down *TO THE STOPS* it's GOING to wiggle and bounce and jump off the damn trailer.. and that's NOT a fun thing to see in your rearview mirror.. BTDT, won't chain to the frame again.

I've never had a problem with my Scout trying to jump off the trailer since I started chaining the axles down.

I have no problems with the Scout leaning a little around the corners n' such. That's why it has a suspension.

Then again, I'm not using a worn-out SWB 1/2T to haul with, either..

And, maybe thats teh difference. you are using chains (or so it sounds), and I use straps. But I also cross the straps so a little movement is allowed without risking the strap popping off.

I tighten the straps down until I can't tighten no more. On my Jeep, the front end hits the bumpstops or comes within 1" or less of hitting them. The rear of the Jeep doesn't come down to the bumpstops, but is tightened as far as I can go with the straps.

If I were to do the axle thing, I would still use 4 straps, but I would also use at least 2 more to control body sway.

Having had to go through an emergency manuever at 60mph towing my jeep on a trailer. It just cemented my opinion that tying the frame down is the way to go.

Of course, this is like a religious debate. LOL

O-boy, this debate :bounce:


For ME: by the axles on 4x4 rigs.... or anything its convenient to hook by the axles.

Never had an issue, never had one walk on the trailer, never had one that the body sway was an issue. I also use 4-straps when going any major distance, but have been know to be lazy and use one strap (or two) on the front and a chain in the back... or even (eek) a come-a-long....


Maybe my rig isn't as bad, but if you have that much body sway to be fearfull of, then that is too much sway for the trail IMO, or you have really bad shocks or need and anti-rock.


Just about every piece of crap I have hauled has been hooked by the axles, or atleast the rear axle and some sort of stout part on the front.

Bouncing the springs and the straps/chains worries me, the shock loads on the tie downs, not to mention the load being "unloaded".

If I tie by the axles, I KNOW the axles aren't going anywhere, so the load is staying on the trailer, the body can do what it wants, but most of the time it is just back there happy as a rock.


I also don't think we can compare our rigs and trailers to "professional auto transporters", our trailers weigh what, 2000# and most rigs weight between 3000# and 5000# (or more :D), semi trailer car-haulers weigh what, 20K on there own, compared to the cars that are on them at maybe 3K each?? Ya, that car can bounce around all it wants and the trailer won't care, a 5K rig on a 2K trailer, I would notice it.

Most of the car hauler I have seen really only seem to have safety chains on anyway, 1/2 the chains are slack and the car's brakes and wheel chocks are holding it in position.

I have also heard that the holes in car frames are for he assembly line, not necessarily for transport... and can/have had a tendency to pull out/deform the frame.


I would also think that the force required to pull my truck down to the bump stops (if I had any) would have a very good chance of denting/bending/tweaking the frame, especially with chains...

Originally posted by RustoleumWhite

I also don't think we can compare our rigs and trailers to "professional auto transporters", our trailers weigh what, 2000# and most rigs weight between 3000# and 5000# (or more :D), semi trailer car-haulers weigh what, 20K on there own, compared to the cars that are on them at maybe 3K each?? Ya, that car can bounce around all it wants and the trailer won't care, a 5K rig on a 2K trailer, I would notice it.


That could be another factor I didn't think about.

My trailer weighs in around 3,000+lbs. The COG of it loaded is no taller than about 3.5' high.

Seems to me all you need to do to be really SAFE is take two 3/8" chains and cross tie the rear axle. Pull the vehical forward enough to take up the slack. Then take two more 3/8" chains and cross tie the front axle. Now all you need is two binders (the ratcheting screw type are better) to snug down those front chains. You can't get much safer than that.

If you feel the need you can use ratchet straps to tie down the body and frame. I really don't see the need...;)

I been told one on each corner, I do it with two chains to the axles no problem and use my winch to control excessive body sway without bottoming the springs works great.

Sawsall-I got my set up from Acme Rigging in Ukiah, four axle slings and four 5k rachet straps. Easier than chains and they cant fall off because they snap closed. Whole setup was under $100.00.

I tighten the straps down until I can't tighten no more. On my Jeep, the front end hits the bumpstops or comes within 1" or less of hitting them. The rear of the Jeep doesn't come down to the bumpstops, but is tightened as far as I can go with the straps

a rough ride will compress the suspension more then you can tighten with your ratchet straps.
this will result in your load moving across the deck towards whichever strap you got the tightest.
to me that = insecure load

I hauled pilot cars on my modular building airfloat for MANY rough gravel miles
the tires of the pilot truck sat on 4" wide frame rails of the float
straps from the ratchets to the truck's spring plates at each corner

there is no way I would trust securing the frame


I like this dragging them from the depths rather then starting a new arguement

Originally posted by mj


a rough ride will compress the suspension more then you can tighten with your ratchet straps.
this will result in your load moving across the deck towards whichever strap you got the tightest.
to me that = insecure load

I hauled pilot cars on my modular building airfloat for MANY rough gravel miles
the tires of the pilot truck sat on 4" wide frame rails of the float
straps from the ratchets to the truck's spring plates at each corner

there is no way I would trust securing the frame


I like this dragging them from the depths rather then starting a new arguement

haven't had the rig move ONCE while strapped down. It's something I always watch for. And honestly, would still watch for if I tied it down by the axles.

How do I know it doesn't move an inch? I have a 2x4 deck, it doesn't change positions on the board.

That was even after I jerked the truck over hard at 60mph.