I'm trying to decide which motor to put in my trail rig I am building. It will be a F-150 cab on a Bronco fram, with a flatbed in back, front D60, rear 10.25/14 bolt, blah, blah, blah....
Anyhow I've narrowed my motor choices down between the the 460 and the 300. Both will have EFI. The 300 is an extremely durable motor, which has good bottom end torque, and gets good mileage. The other advantage is the 300 is compact, so there is more room under the hood for various off-road crapola.
The 460 has raw power, and is fairly stout.
Anyhow this is goign to be for PNW wheeling, which means no bottomless mud holes.
I suppose my choice of tranny will also dictate which motor will be better. If I choose manual it will be either an NP435 or ZF 5spd. The auto choice is pretty much a C-6.

Anyhow if I could get input, advice, or even insults that would be great.

Damn, tough choice. I like them both. If the rig is not going to be too heavy then I300. And yes your idea of more underhood room is a good one.

Eric

I've been scratching my head over this one for a few months now. I'm going to try and keep the weight down, but the flatbed rear is goign to incorporate a cage too, so it might weigh a bit.
My '83 Bronco which is more or less just a glorified commuter/station wagon has a carb 300 and no A/C and the amount of room under the hood is sick.
Would you take the stick or auto behind the 300? the 460?
I'm thinking the 300 would be best off with the stick, but I suppose a really low stall converter would work well too.

:rolleyes:

And Where will you be getting this Cab :D

What size tires are you planning on running?

IMO that Question doesnt really matter bud, the 460 with a c6 is the way to go.....

I dont think that 300 would be too happy with meats, sure it will work, but i think youll always wonder what it woulda been like if ya put a 460 in...
You wont be thinking what if I woulda put a 300 in when the 460 is done........

Hey did you figure out what the culprit was on the brakes?

Well I will probably be running 38-42" tires, but I'm no speed freak, on or off the trails, so I'm not sure how much the power difference is going to affect things. Obviously you and Kurt have run into some nasty mud holes, but I avoid things like that...
I sort of figured the 460 would go with the C-6 and the 300 would go with the NP435.

The cab looks nice, how does Friday look for me to come pick it up? I'm going to try and get Kurt to help me out.

Friday will work for me.....:D

i say the 460. if you get the I6 you MIGHT be happy with it but i bet you anything that sooner or later you will wish you had the power of the 460. just my op.

Hey I have an 84 with a I-6 300 and NP-435, NP-208, 6" lift with 35's I have no prob's.

If you go with the I-6 you have a lot of room under the hood and about 250ft/tq at about 1700rpms and it is hard to hurt this motor it will move the 42's you just need to gear it right.

If you go with the 460 you can build a flat curve for the torque and you can get about 400ft/tq at about 2300-2500rpms it is a lot bigger.


I'm building up a Bronco II and I will going with a 300 I-6 and NP-435, atlas II, 9"rear & D44 front with 37" MTR's and on and on

Good luck with your build up

At this point I am leaning more towards the 300, but maybe I guess I have a general philosophical question about putting a 460 in there and that is... What's the point?
Maybe I'm :smokin: , but I've run trails all over the NW and the Rubicon once, and there have been no instances where I said "Fawk, I need a more powerful motor". Most of the mud holes around here are actually just deep mud puddles. Even breaking trail in the snow a 460 is over kill. So aside from not being able to out run rice-boy Acuras can someone tell me what I am missing?
:confused:

This is not to say I won't end up dropping in a 460, but I don't see the practical reason for it yet...

My rig sounds similar it was a 86 F150 cab on a shortened frame with 10.25 rear and D60 in front...when I had the I-6 in it is was reliable and crawled just fine but the motor always had to work hard. It was a tired old carbed 300, so a new EFI 300 would be better...but not much. Since I swapped in a 460 it has been much more fun to drive, and the power helps alot in the mud and snow. If you don't already have one or the other I'd do the 460 now...if you don't you will later.

I would say you ahve top ask yourself what can the 460 do that the 300 cant? Then ask yourself what can the 300 do that the 460 cant? My choice would be the 460.

Rade, what kind of emissions/inspections hurdles would you have to overcome?

Your point of underhood room is a good one, but with the flatbed...? A lot of crap can be put in the back for better weight distribution and underhood space. Think how much room opens up just by getting rid of the batteries. Aside from that...? You'd have a York, air filter, vac canister, heater box, power dist. panel.... that's about it.

I'd go with the 460 for similar reasons.... better to do it now, than regret it later. ;)

Edit:

Oh yeah, and what a stupid fawking question. Are you another MLB export?? :flipoff2:

The only emissions we have to worry about here in the Seattle area is a tailpipe sniff test that is patheticly easy to pass (at least for decently tuned EFI rigs).:roxy:
I suppose you are right that with a flatbed I'll have a shiite-load of room.


As far as what the 460 can do vice the 300, I dunno, do burnouts and get shiitey mileage? "Enjoying more power" and "Being more fun to drive" don't mean squat to me really. If I want to tow something, I'll use my F-250, if I want a hot rod, I'll go buy a 'Stang. I suppose since this rig will be heavily loaded with trail crapola, I might need the 460 to get out of my own way.

I'll probably just bitch and moan about what to do until I find a cheap 351Wband I'll put that in, since I am a seriously cheap bastard...

Yeah I was chilling at the MBB board, but now that they told me what kind of subs and amp I need for "da mad basz" I'm moving on. :barf: :barf: :barf:

Originally posted by OffRoadPoser
At this point I am leaning more towards the 300, but maybe I guess I have a general philosophical question about putting a 460 in there and that is... What's the point?
Maybe I'm :smokin: , but I've run trails all over the NW and the Rubicon once, and there have been no instances where I said "Fawk, I need a more powerful motor". Most of the mud holes around here are actually just deep mud puddles. Even breaking trail in the snow a 460 is over kill. So aside from not being able to out run rice-boy Acuras can someone tell me what I am missing?
:confused:

This is not to say I won't end up dropping in a 460, but I don't see the practical reason for it yet... \









Hey Bro I'll solve your Problem for ya......

You CANT have my Cab unless you use the 460 :flipoff2:

Just a note on the gas milage thing. Every 300 I've seen got less milage then the 302 or 351w. Also you will have a little more room next to the engine. And you will have less room in front of the engine. I have a 460 in a 85 250. There is plenty of room under the hood. Also the 460 doesn't weigh all that much more then the 300. And the 460 will have just as much, if not more, low end as the 300. When it comes right down to it, I would use whatever you have or can get cheap. You can get a EFI 300 very cheap, a 460 EFI will be alot more.

If you want more engine compartment room install the body lift, Mine seemed huge even with a 460 with rhe 3" Body Lift......

Also as a side note, if your worried about mpg, heck I avg'd 14 mpg with my 460 and 35's, yes I had highway 3.08's in it, but hey with that 460 I really dont NEED 456's........

At 65 mph I was turing 2000 rpm's with the c6 and 35's.......
And of course plenty of power........

I can hook ya up with a 460 too :D

Thanks for making the decision for me Chad, got an EFI 460 I can HAVE? :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:


BTW, we never did figure out what was wrong with the brakes. I'm thinking maybe a bad prop valve, but I'm going to just replace the MC and gut the valve (and leave the POS RABS disconnected!).:barf:

No EfI, but a buddy has at least 1 complete 460 in his shop , he works 2nd shift at Boeing, maybe give him a call tomorrow morning around 10am -1pm........

Tell him Chad said he has a few 460's.........
I'll PM ya his #........

i just swapped out a 351w for the 460 and am loving it. i would think going from the 300 youd be even more impressed. this is the por board, bigger is always better, go 460

Tough decision.....a well built 300 would be able to produce tons of torque, I mean tons....probably more than a stock 460,

However a well built 460 could just be crazy sick w/ power. I think I'd build a 460. Never have too much horsepower or torque, even if you don't always need it, it's nice to know its there if needed.

the engine idea is up to you, I think you already know what you want just don't want to feel like making a mistake. If you choose the 300 (i would), get the 4 speed NP435. Take full advantage of its power, don't throw away horsepower on a slushbox. The 460 can make up for this with brute strength, the 300 is kind of limited. just my 2 cents.

Come on now....
Granted....the 300 will make a shitload of torque down low for its size....
FOR ITS SIZE.....
the BB may just start to break a sweat where that 300 is just pleading for its life...
If your really thinking of going w/ some serious tires....teh 300 just ain't gonna cut it....sure you can gear it down, but then the tires just turn slower....gear it all ya want, you still gotta spin those things 'ta get um to bite sometimes...

and 'sides....you can just put a 50 gal. tank into the flatbed..

--B
:zzz: :zzz: :zzz:

Shouldn't you be designing new egronomic spit cups or something? :p
Are you gonna help me weld up the flatbed? If I do it it will fall apart the first bump I hit... I hadn't even thought of fabbing a custom tank, but as long as I could get the adapter ring for the in-take pump right, I suppose I could make it as big as necessary.
I guess that is why you are an engineer, and I'm schlepping Stairmasters...


p.s. I have your little milk container. Mellon put it in my cooler to make room for beer...:D

ya, I know....Amber was pissed:mad3:

Of course I'll help ya w/ the flatbed/cage.....wouldn't wish riding in that thing if you welded it up on my worst enemy....
If your nice to me, I'll even help ya swing the solid axle under the front....Kurt seems to be awfully happy w/ his 60...
so where you getting these axles??? and when do we start??

Originally posted by OffRoadPoser
I'll probably just bitch and moan about what to do until I find a cheap 351Wband I'll put that in, since I am a seriously cheap bastard...

Ya know... this might be the best option in the long run. Definitely the smartest thing you've said in this thread.... :flipoff2:

I mean, you already have a pile of 302/351W parts laying around, right? Get a 351W EFI, stick one of your spare SEFI harnesses on it, and if you're still looking for power, you can always stroke it.

:smokin:

Originally posted by Berne
ya, I know....Amber was pissed:mad3:

Of course I'll help ya w/ the flatbed/cage.....wouldn't wish riding in that thing if you welded it up on my worst enemy....
If your nice to me, I'll even help ya swing the solid axle under the front....Kurt seems to be awfully happy w/ his 60...
so where you getting these axles??? and when do we start??

Tell Amber I apologize profusely!
Help me swing a solid axle... gosh Berne you're quite a guy!
Chris S was supposed to hook me up with a 14 bolt in exchange for some huge billets of aircraft aluminum, but I haven't heard anything from him.

We start when I get a few little things done on the '90, and then I need to drag the frame inside and POR-15 it. Once that is done the cab is going on and I'll proceed from there.:smokin:

Originally posted by sclemons


Ya know... this might be the best option in the long run. Definitely the smartest thing you've said in this thread.... :flipoff2:

I mean, you already have a pile of 302/351W parts laying around, right? Get a 351W EFI, stick one of your spare SEFI harnesses on it, and if you're still looking for power, you can always stroke it.

:smokin:

Heh heh heh... you said stroke it.... :rainbow: :rainbow: :rainbow:

A 351W would be boring, and I'd have to put a load of money into get it to be a good as a stock 460, but mostly because a 351W would be boring... :flipoff2:

Originally posted by OffRoadPoser
A 351W would be boring, and I'd have to put a load of money into get it to be a good as a stock 460, but mostly because a 351W would be boring... :flipoff2:

Hmmm... so by that :rainbow: logic, the 300 is out, too. Looks like you're in need of a 460. :D

No a 300 I6 would be wierd, not:rainbow:
Obviously the subtle difference isn't clear.... :p
I'll probably have to get a 460 just to avoid Berne, Nick, and Chad from giving me wedgies or some other wierd form of big block hazing. :eek:

Heh......:D

spend some time talking to the guys at cliffordperformance.com and fordsix.com drop a little $$$ in it and make the big block guys cry with damn near 400 ft lbs trq off idle

I laugh at those that think that the 300 can be built to run with a big block... Buy into the marketing all you want, BUT, I have been there and done that, most everything that makes big HP on a 300 kills the low end, and a 300 that is still going to be trailable is going to work hard to run with a mild 351W. I can gurantee you a 300 is never going to make 400 ft/lbs just off idle. Even Clifford's really mild 264H grind kicks the torque peak up to 3300, the 290H I ran at the end, well, lets not go there.
Now a 460, gee, even a stock mid 80's 8.0:1 emissions engine makes 380+ at 2kRPM... Set the cam back to straight up, add some headers, maybe a mild cam, and you've got no shortage of power, and torque a 300 could never dream of.

Well I don't really have anything to add to this thread cept that I have a 300 6 in a 79 crew cab with 38s. Build is here:

http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=603837

I have no problems with it.. I'm like you.. I don't have any real desire for great power. So far it's been fine but I've only really had it in the snow and a few light trails (just got it together in the fall).

In the end of course it's all up to you.. I just did it cause I wanted simple + reliable.

Yall do realize you're replying to a almost 6 year old thread, lol.

Well WTF!! Who drug this baby up? Anyone know what he decided? :)

Well WTF!! Who drug this baby up? Anyone know what he decided? :)

no shit huh??

Pretty certain, as old as this thread is, that he still hasn't decided...
the truck in question never got built...

Leave it to the newbs to dig up 6 year old threads:shaking:

I'm trying to decide which motor to put in my trail rig I am building. It will be a F-150 cab on a Bronco fram, with a flatbed in back, front D60, rear 10.25/14 bolt, blah, blah, blah....
Anyhow I've narrowed my motor choices down between the the 460 and the 300. Both will have EFI. The 300 is an extremely durable motor, which has good bottom end torque, and gets good mileage. The other advantage is the 300 is compact, so there is more room under the hood for various off-road crapola.
The 460 has raw power, and is fairly stout.
Anyhow this is goign to be for PNW wheeling, which means no bottomless mud holes.
I suppose my choice of tranny will also dictate which motor will be better. If I choose manual it will be either an NP435 or ZF 5spd. The auto choice is pretty much a C-6.

Anyhow if I could get input, advice, or even insults that would be great.I would put a 4bt cummins in there best of both worlds fuel economy and torque