UPDATE - In stock and ready to ship! You can order one at www.zukeviltwin.com

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c166/TruckTrader/Twin%20Stick/deluxekit.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c166/TruckTrader/Twin%20Stick/twinsticks.jpg

A friend of mine and I are kicking around the idea of manufacturing a twin stick. Yea I know this topic has been beat to death and there are some other folks that have tried to manufacture and sell one. But at this point we have a working prototype and are looking at some options for producing it.

Installation is about as easy as it can get with the exception of the interlock ball. You need to remove the interlock ball in the t-case. Those folks that have the 2lo option or "sloppy s" shifter in their cases already have that done for them so this is a direct drop in.

It utilizes the stock shifter retainer cup and spring assembly which makes for a clean install. You remove your shift seat, drop it in, turn the collar and away you go.

So, is there a market for this at a pricepoint around $100-$120??? Or is the Samurai twin stick doomed to be something that everybody has to make for themselves?

watch out - some asshole has a patent on twin-sticking a sami tcase.

if he makes them i will buy one for 100 bucks let me know i am relly interested.Thanks mike

watch out - some asshole has a patent on twin-sticking a sami tcase.

:mad3: i heard that before.

Okay guys, we know Rollerskate has had a patent out for a while but never produced them. I've corresponded with him and Brad is a cool guy that's just trying to protect his investment which is understandable. He doesn't have a problem anyone making these so long as it's not through an established vendor.

Can anybody on here help me out with some CNC machining or water jet cutting? I need to get a price to get these things produced so I know if it's feasible to do. Thanks.

depending on how well the final product is (and maybe some cool shifters) i would think around the $100 mark is quite reasonable and there is most likely a demand.

Obviously there are alot of d.i.y. type guys out there and won't spend the money and the cheap guys out there who choose your lowest price no matter what. But for the perfectionist guys that want everything detailed and tried-and-true products, I imagine a nicely designed twin stick would do well. I'd buy one.

-dan

there's already a guy over on the Zuwharrie board making and selling them for around 50 bucks plus your 2 shifter levers.

http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content/topic,49930.0.html

there's already a guy over on the Zuwharrie board making and selling them for around 50 bucks plus your 2 shifter levers.

http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content/topic,49930.0.html

That's pretty cheap, I don't see a pic of his design though. I don't think it would be worth doing it for $50, there's still some work and time involved in doing it.

I understand Brad's patent was pretty broad in it's description. I'd love to see the shofters available, but I'd hate to see you guys get into trouble too.

If you build it and its a good product will :D :D :D buy it!!! Just like any other Zuk vender. I want two.

I'm curious. I have the 2LO mod done in my tcase already. How is it different?

I'm curious. I have the 2LO mod done in my tcase already. How is it different?

With a twin stick you have 1 lever for 2wd/4wd and another lever for 4lo/2lo. Much more positive feeling to shift, no hunting around for gears.

Parts that go into it, no drilling for a pin across the case like some other designs.

Installed unit. The shift is very crisp and tight. Ignore the shift pattern on the factory knob, left handle is 2wd/4wd and the right is hi/lo.

If you build it and its a good product will :D :D :D buy it!!! Just like any other Zuk vender. I want two.


You're fairly local, feel free to drop by and check mine out sometime.

let me know when there available and price shipped to 95206

That sounds awesome and I would be very interested. I love my 2wd Lo option but it is sometime a pain searching for gears like you said. However, I for me.....would it be a bolt in swap, or would I still have to mess with the ball in the tcase?

That sounds awesome and I would be very interested. I love my 2wd Lo option but it is sometime a pain searching for gears like you said. However, I for me.....would it be a bolt in swap, or would I still have to mess with the ball in the tcase?

No, if you have a 2lo option already that means the detent ball has been removed from the case previously. This is a direct drop in, just install it as you would a normal shifter with the twist and lock collar.

i want a set.Thanks mike

Interesting..yours looks almost identicle to mine.
They even mount the same way by the looks of it.
I did build one set of sticks a bit differently, and another set like yours...I haven't decided which one i like better though.
The big differance I think is the insert you made and the one that I have.

I am working on sealing mine, I have a twinstick boot I am going to use, I just need to finish how to attach it to the t-case neatly. Sealing it simple and inexpensivly has really been the only issue but I belive I have that worked out now as well, i just need to fabricate the prototype parts.

As for the patent issue...that has been discussed at great length here and over on Zuwharrie (http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content/topic,52445.0.html)

I am glad to see that someone else has figured out how easy it is to build this.
I have looked at the market for this and its going to be very small, so I decided not to market mine.
I will build it for friends and gifts, just not for profit.
I'm kinda treating it as a gift back to the comunity that has given me so much enjoyment over the years.

Interesting..yours looks almost identicle to mine.
They even mount the same way by the looks of it.
I did build one set of sticks a bit differently, and another set like yours...I haven't decided which one i like better though.
The big differance I think is the insert you made and the one that I have.

I am working on sealing mine, I have a twinstick boot I am going to use, I just need to finish how to attach it to the t-case neatly. Sealing it simple and inexpensivly has really been the only issue but I belive I have that worked out now as well, i just need to fabricate the prototype parts.

As for the patent issue...that has been discussed at great length here and over on Zuwharrie (http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content/topic,52445.0.html)

I am glad to see that someone else has figured out how easy it is to build this.
I have looked at the market for this and its going to be very small, so I decided not to market mine.
I will build it for friends and gifts, just not for profit.
I'm kinda treating it as a gift back to the comunity that has given me so much enjoyment over the years.




I've seen others that are similar to this setup too, let's face it - there's only so many ways you can make a twin stick for a samurai. Sealing the boot is an issue we have too and we haven't found anything pre-made that will work well in this application. The best option is of course to have one made specifically for this setup. That might cost some dough, but we're checking into it. It shouldn't leak anymore than a stock setup in a rollover though.

I don't know how you machined your block for the shift towers but these are precision made with zero clearance. That means you remove the shift seat and jiggle this into place and hold it down with the retainer cup and spring assembly. Once installed, it's the tightest and most positive shifting setup I've ever seen.

As for the patent, we'll see what happens. I seriously doubt the patent nazi could get us for this design. But if his patent is so broad that it covers the idea and not just making something different then we're all hosed and this will be just another design that never makes it to market.

I've seen others that are similar to this setup too, let's face it - there's only so many ways you can make a twin stick for a samurai.

Haha, you're right there, before I went to Dual Toyota T-cases, I built a twin stick that looked just like yours except the pivot slug was 2 piece.

Sealing the boot is an issue we have too and we haven't found anything pre-made that will work well in this application. The best option is of course to have one made specifically for this setup. That might cost some dough, but we're checking into it. It shouldn't leak anymore than a stock setup in a rollover though.

I used a thick rubber glove and duct tape, totally crude, but it worked.

I don't know how you machined your block for the shift towers but these are precision made with zero clearance. That means you remove the shift seat and jiggle this into place and hold it down with the retainer cup and spring assembly. Once installed, it's the tightest and most positive shifting setup I've ever seen.

That definitely looks very clean and the nicest I've seen so far.

As for the patent, we'll see what happens. I seriously doubt the patent nazi could get us for this design. But if his patent is so broad that it covers the idea and not just making something different then we're all hosed and this will be just another design that never makes it to market.

If his patent is so broad to cover every possible design, then it would be easy to beat, plus he would need to spend the $ to come after you. I haven't seen his patent, but they can be very tricky if they are not worded right. He cannot just patent a twin stick for a Sami T-case, he has to show his design and then any other design would be legal. Keep in mind that just because he has a patent doesn't mean it is iron clad, the USPTO office usually weeds out bad patents, but many of them get through that are weak and can be gotten around.

Does anyone have the patent number for his design? I am not a patent laywer, but have dealt enough with patents over the years to have gotten a pretty good feel for them.

Another option to get around any potential patent issues and to keep costs down would be to make it available as a kit. Meaning, we could make a "do it yourself kit" where we could provide the machined block and lower portion of the levers that extend just above the top of the case a couple of inches.

You could cut two stock shift levers and weld them on yourself and use your stock spring and retaining cup with spring. Most shadetree mechanics could cut the levers themselves and put a few booger welds on it and be done. Just an idea. :smokin:

are u guys selling them yet or no because i relly want one and i would like to get it asap.Mike

are u guys selling them yet or no because i relly want one and i would like to get it asap.Mike

Sorry Mike, we haven't produced anything for sale as of yet. The reason being if we want to make this worthwhile we would have to manufacture them in a large batch. Maybe we can look into making a small batch first and see how they sell. If we do that (or decide to make one offs) I will let you know. Thanks.

Vince

make me a set i want them.LOL.No i would like to get them so hurry up and make them i want a shiter.But anyway cool just let me know.Mike

Another option to get around any potential patent issues and to keep costs down would be to make it available as a kit. Meaning, we could make a "do it yourself kit" where we could provide the machined block and lower portion of the levers that extend just above the top of the case a couple of inches. ... We could probably sell it as a kit for $50 or less.

I'll buy three kits. -- ernie

Put me down for a kit if you make them. I have cash, you would just have to ship to an APO address.

I'm so down for a twinstick.

I would buy 2 kits.:smokin:

I've seen others that are similar to this setup too, let's face it - there's only so many ways you can make a twin stick for a samurai. Sealing the boot is an issue we have too and we haven't found anything pre-made that will work well in this application. The best option is of course to have one made specifically for this setup. That might cost some dough, but we're checking into it. It shouldn't leak anymore than a stock setup in a rollover though.

I don't know how you machined your block for the shift towers but these are precision made with zero clearance. That means you remove the shift seat and jiggle this into place and hold it down with the retainer cup and spring assembly. Once installed, it's the tightest and most positive shifting setup I've ever seen.


I considered the machined block like you have, but its too labor intensive for a production thing unless your running a CNC mill. My equipment is not that good, I have to do it by hand, and I dont want to spend that much time in front of the mill and lathe.
The new design for the center block on mine can be made by almost anyone with a drill press, a vice and a welder. Mine's basicaly made from bent and welded flat stock. Cheap to produce, and easy to make.
I also have another one that uses flat stock and tubing for as a two piece setup.
Both are retained like the factory stick with the colar and spring.

I already have a 'Stock like' twin boot design, but the cost to produce it, as your finding out, is rather high.
I need to spend a little time in the shop to finish up the new boot, it should seal just as well as the factory, and look like a production unit.

I already have a twin stick i made out of 2 stock shifters. It works good so far! I wouldnt mind having something like this tho. It seems like it holds the shifters better.

Count me in for a set when they are produced!

Sounds to me that the demand is there. I would be all for the $50 kit version for the DIY guy.:D That way you don't have the labor intense part and I don't have the higher cost.

ok put me down for a kit.Mike

I would like the DIY kit as well. Probably 2! That way I could customize the levers to my taste.

Didn't I read somewhere that a Heep twinstick boot could work on Zuk cases with the twin stick? Dana 300 or something.

I would be interested in at least one set.
I was going to make my own but time has not been there.
If it will bring it over the top put me down for two the LWB will feel left out if it does not get a set also :smokin:

I would like the DIY kit as well. Probably 2! That way I could customize the levers to my taste.

Didn't I read somewhere that a Heep twinstick boot could work on Zuk cases with the twin stick? Dana 300 or something.

Yeah, we have a jeep twinstick boot off a dana 300 and you can make it work, we could also make a pair of rubber gloves work for that matter. We were trying to come up with something that looked and fit a little nicer. But it may turn out that it's not worth making one for it and we will have to make something else work.

Didn't I read somewhere that a Heep twinstick boot could work on Zuk cases with the twin stick? Dana 300 or something.

To seal up the samurai tcase, you can use a boot off the early CJ jeeps (willys). That is what I have on mine and it works good. The boot is made to mount flat on the floorpan of the CJ, but you can shape it around the shift tower of the samurai tcase and zip-tie it into place.
For the floor boot, you can use the twin-stick boot off of an early bronco (IIRC). I had triple-sticks with my K3, so the twin-stick floor boot wouldn't work for me.

come on and make them u got like 8 people that want a set so make them and see how they sell and than let us tell ya how they work.Mikw

You bet his patent by the parts are free and you get 125.00 for shipping and handling:D

even for a 125 bucks i would still pay that.Mike

Does anyone have the patent number for his design? I am not a patent laywer, but have dealt enough with patents over the years to have gotten a pretty good feel for them.

I have converted his patent into a pdf from the patent office's website. They only give you TIFF images and not everyone can open those.

Here's a link to the patent pdf (http://www.members.shaw.ca/builttoy/posts/twinstickpatent.pdf). Please right click and save target as.

I wish someone would build one and sell it just to piss rollerskate off. I doubt he has the loot to protect it if he can't get the cash together to bring it to market. :D

Okay Ive got a couple questions. In the sami I just bought it has a Petroworks GSRII transfer case would this be a direct bolt in of would I have to remove the ball? And is it possible to do a front dig with this setup? As soon as you guys get the details worked out of this let us know I would like to have one for my sami if nothing else it will simplify things. As for cool shifter handles CrawlTech makes some sweet pistol grip shifter knobs.:D

Okay Ive got a couple questions. In the sami I just bought it has a Petroworks GSRII transfer case would this be a direct bolt in of would I have to remove the ball? And is it possible to do a front dig with this setup? As soon as you guys get the details worked out of this let us know I would like to have one for my sami if nothing else it will simplify things. As for cool shifter handles CrawlTech makes some sweet pistol grip shifter knobs.:D

This will only work if your GRSII has the 2lo option already on it as stated in the first post. If it has the detent ball removed it's a bolt in, actually a "drop in".

No front digs with this setup, this only gives you a 2wd lo. You need a rear driveline disconnect for front digs. Check out Trail Tough's website for info on that.

I made one a year ago by grinding and bending two stock shifters.

The biggest benefit to this mod is smooth shifting. My old shifter locked way to often, now it's like a swiss watch.

Thanks for the reply back. I only asked about it because I couldnt remember if it has two low or not. After a quick check with the Pops it does have two low. So when you get everything worked out Ill take one!:D

I will take one DIY setup . Let me know when your ready and I will paypal you the money .

I have already made my own but if it will help the cause gettin things going and mudboggin101 getting one I'd buy a DIY too. I LOVE my twin stick and prolly will never be without one again.

thanks grumpy.Yea come on make them.mike

I'd buy one.

Yeah, we have a jeep twinstick boot off a dana 300 and you can make it work, we could also make a pair of rubber gloves work for that matter. We were trying to come up with something that looked and fit a little nicer. But it may turn out that it's not worth making one for it and we will have to make something else work.

Wonder if working off this design, one could make a mold and just pour some silicon or other rubber into and make their own. I'm no craft wiz, but there has to be an easier way to make something fairly inexpensive here. People are making fiberglass molds in their garages now so anything is possible.

Great job on making such a nice looking prototype. I kicked around making one for years, but too many other projects to do so this is one I would definetly buy! Again, I would like the DIY kit format.

At some point somebody is going to say to both of you....

BUY A YELLOW STAR














:p :p :p :p :p :p :p

At some point somebody is going to say to both of you....

BUY A YELLOW STAR


:p :p :p :p :p :p :p

And when you do, I will say that I'd be happy to support the PBB if I ever actually sell one. :D

A yellow star might be nice ,,, by the way your not the only one working on twin sticks for a sammi case.

He hasn't attempted to sell anything yet. I deleted the post from the person that did actually pimp. I'm watching and if it seems like its becoming a thread to pimp I'll remove it until you get a yellow star. Its only fair to the other vendors on the BB. :roxy:

Thanks Rox. As stated in my original post, I'm just looking into this and I'm not actually selling them at this time. When I get the manufactring costs back I will post up if we decide to make them. At that time I would be happy to buy a yellow star if we produce them!

I'd be in for a set also.

Im on the east coast and would like one pre made just drop in (nice).

Send me a messager if u start making em, I would definately buy a set

Send me a message too. I'm definately interested in getting a set.

Thanks guys. I'm looking into the production costs right now. When I get a number I will post up on whether it's a go or not. My thought was to do a trial run of 100 or so and see how much it costs and how they sell.

I'll be a test guinepig :p

Can anybody on here hook me up with some CNC machining or water jet cutting?

Let me know what you need, we have access to both.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=402620&highlight=D.D.machine

As one can see I have been working on this product for more than 2 years and I`m weeks away from coming out with it. I have all the proto types done and have even started on the production of them. the main hold up has been finding the time to make the mold for the seals ,,, yes that "SEALS" not seal
I currently make twin-sticks for
Dana 20 jeep CJ
Dana 20 scout II
Dana 300
Dana 300 "flip"
Gm np-205
Ford np-205
Ford bronco "T" shifter Dana 20
Ford Bronco "J" shifter Dana 20

and I have 90% of the parts done for Toyota top shift and forward shift cases
( just need to finish the 4340 "Cromo" shifter arms.

All of the twin sticks we make have stainless steel shifter rods and the toyota and Sammi sticks well have heat treated 4340 lower arms.

************************************************** ********

We manufacture all of are products in house on
2 cnc turning centers
2 cnc milling centers
4 screw machines
4 milling machines
2 punch presses
2 band saws
2 power hacksaws
1 cold saw
1 full auto cold saw
5 welder
and tons of small support equipment


Duffy
D.D.Machine
(360)779-2500

P.S. this is a nice post to find out what the going selling price well be for sammi twin sticks, when ever the final price gets posted I well set my price a full 30% below that.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=402620&highlight=D.D.machine

As one can see I have been working on this product for more than 2 years and I`m weeks away from coming out with it. I have all the proto types done and have even started on the production of them. the main hold up has been finding the time to make the mold for the seals ,,, yes that "SEALS" not seal
I currently make twin-sticks for
Dana 20 jeep CJ
Dana 20 scout II
Dana 300
Dana 300 "flip"
Gm np-205
Ford np-205
Ford bronco "T" shifter Dana 20
Ford Bronco "J" shifter Dana 20

and I have 90% of the parts done for Toyota top shift and forward shift cases
( just need to finish the 4340 "Cromo" shifter arms.

All of the twin sticks we make have stainless steel shifter rods and the toyota and Sammi sticks well have heat treated 4340 lower arms.

************************************************** ********

We manufacture all of are products in house on
2 cnc turning centers
2 cnc milling centers
4 screw machines
4 milling machines
2 punch presses
2 band saws
2 power hacksaws
1 cold saw
1 full auto cold saw
5 welder
and tons of small support equipment


Duffy
D.D.Machine
(360)779-2500

P.S. this is a nice post to find out what the going selling price well be for sammi twin sticks, when ever the final price gets posted I well set my price a full 30% below that.

Okay, I don't need to test market this product for you. Why don't you go ahead and sell them and I will buy one from you. If you're going to sell a unit like this for $70 complete there's no point in me going through the hassle and cost of production. Post up a pic of your prototype and make it available for sale to the Suzuki community. That's the main reason why I was doing this, it certainly wasn't to get rich. I will refer all inquiries to you that I have received about purchasing a twin stick. How's does that sound? All I want is for someone to make one and up til now nobody has ponied up. Are you going to be the guy to finally do it?

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=402620&highlight=D.D.machine

As one can see I have been working on this product for more than 2 years and I`m weeks away from coming out with it. I have all the proto types done and have even started on the production of them. the main hold up has been finding the time to make the mold for the seals ,,, yes that "SEALS" not seal
I currently make twin-sticks for
Dana 20 jeep CJ
Dana 20 scout II
Dana 300
Dana 300 "flip"
Gm np-205
Ford np-205
Ford bronco "T" shifter Dana 20
Ford Bronco "J" shifter Dana 20

and I have 90% of the parts done for Toyota top shift and forward shift cases
( just need to finish the 4340 "Cromo" shifter arms.

All of the twin sticks we make have stainless steel shifter rods and the toyota and Sammi sticks well have heat treated 4340 lower arms.

************************************************** ********

We manufacture all of are products in house on
2 cnc turning centers
2 cnc milling centers
4 screw machines
4 milling machines
2 punch presses
2 band saws
2 power hacksaws
1 cold saw
1 full auto cold saw
5 welder
and tons of small support equipment


Duffy
D.D.Machine
(360)779-2500

P.S. this is a nice post to find out what the going selling price well be for sammi twin sticks, when ever the final price gets posted I well set my price a full 30% below that.


I agree with Trucktrader that I would just like someone to finally produce these already. HOWEVER, It was a dickhead thing to do to hijack into a post to pimp your own shit . :shaking: I support you building one for the market, but really. To already undercut a guy that hasn't even made them yet. :barf: Continue your own post with the updated information. :flipoff2: Good luck in your quest.

Trucktrader, I will still want one if you sell them! Even for the additional 30%. :D

Thanks Catzuk, I thought posting like that in someone else's thread was less than noble. But if Double D's backs up his claim and produces them I will save the time and hassle and let him do it. I just want someone to do it and I don't care who it is. Now come on D.D., let's get some twin sticks in the hands of the zuk guys!

I`m sorry if I came off as a jurk , I get a little ticked over the sammi sticks in that its been a pain in the butt trying to get around Bradly Potter patent on them and still make the cheap so every one well want and can afford them.
One really has to wonder why some would spend $10,000 to $15,000 for a fooking patent only to never sell the rights to it or make a product.

Yes it may seem like I`m trying to hi jack your post but what I`m trying to do is let your self and others know that I`m coming out with them soon and there not a copy of yours and do to making them in house I can under sell someone that out sources there parts, I think it`s better to be up front than have you spend thousands on a product only to find out later.

Duffy

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=402620&highlight=D.D.machine

As one can see I have been working on this product for more than 2 years and I`m weeks away from coming out with it. I have all the proto types done and have even started on the production of them. the main hold up has been finding the time to make the mold for the seals ,,, yes that "SEALS" not seal
I currently make twin-sticks for
Dana 20 jeep CJ
Dana 20 scout II
Dana 300
Dana 300 "flip"
Gm np-205
Ford np-205
Ford bronco "T" shifter Dana 20
Ford Bronco "J" shifter Dana 20

and I have 90% of the parts done for Toyota top shift and forward shift cases
( just need to finish the 4340 "Cromo" shifter arms.

All of the twin sticks we make have stainless steel shifter rods and the toyota and Sammi sticks well have heat treated 4340 lower arms.

************************************************** ********

We manufacture all of are products in house on
2 cnc turning centers
2 cnc milling centers
4 screw machines
4 milling machines
2 punch presses
2 band saws
2 power hacksaws
1 cold saw
1 full auto cold saw
5 welder
and tons of small support equipment


Duffy
D.D.Machine
(360)779-2500

P.S. this is a nice post to find out what the going selling price well be for sammi twin sticks, when ever the final price gets posted I well set my price a full 30% below that.


That was totaly uncalled for :shaking:

Why come in his thread to undercut him :shaking: He, like many others have gotten tired of hearing someone is going make them available so he is doing something about it.

The comment in your P.S. will make me spend the extra for his.

yeah trucktrader....i would be willing to spend the extra money to buy yours for sure. What an asshat!

Thanks Catzuk, I thought posting like that in someone else's thread was less than noble. But if Double D's backs up his claim and produces them I will save the time and hassle and let him do it. I just want someone to do it and I don't care who it is. Now come on D.D., let's get some twin sticks in the hands of the zuk guys!

Talks cheap. I would like to see one for 70 bucks, but I would'nt buy one.

TruckTrader, you still got my $$ when you are ready. The extra 30% is nothing to me. Respect, courtesy and manners deserves a bit more.

I`m sorry if I came off as a jurk , I get a little ticked over the sammi sticks in that its been a pain in the butt trying to get around Bradly Potter patent on them and still make the cheap so every one well want and can afford them.
One really has to wonder why some would spend $10,000 to $15,000 for a fooking patent only to never sell the rights to it or make a product.

Yes it may seem like I`m trying to hi jack your post but what I`m trying to do is let your self and others know that I`m coming out with them soon and there not a copy of yours and do to making them in house I can under sell someone that out sources there parts, I think it`s better to be up front than have you spend thousands on a product only to find out later.

Duffy

Can't say I speak for anyone else, but I do want to say thank you for trying to get a twin stick to the market for the zuks. And thank you to all who have worked on them as well. Many have over the years. It does read like you are trying to appologize to Trucktrader for hijacking the thread, and if so thats great. Just please re-read your original post.

The professional way to address this would have to pm'd Trucktrader this info and not make a public scene. These words are now out there and looks like you are a complete ass when it comes to business and would undermine all who try to build products that are simular to yours. Again, you should have just updated your original thread of your twin stick project. That would have put it up on the top of the post board and everyone could have read it there. See the difference?

There is a market for these if the price is right. Others can surely make some and might even make a profit. My hat goes to Trucktrader as he wanted to make some for us fellow zukers and didn't care to make a profit so to speak. Thats someone who is a real supporter of our community. :grinpimp:

Build them and we will buy.

slam me if you like.
how should of I handled it?
keep my mouth shut and let them spend $5,000 to $8,000 to run a 100 sets off to only then get my product done and then sell cheaper to be in the market?

Should I just read this post and throw out the 100+ hours and over a grand I`m into the twin sticks at this point?

If you read the link you well see I have been working on this my self for a long time, mostly do to the dammm patent. If you want to throw mud throw it at the jackass that has kept every one from buying these sticks for so long , All I`m trying to do is make a good product and get around some dead beat with a patent and make a few bucks. I`m sorry if pointing out that my cost to make the product is lower than jobing it out but its the truth.

After reading the DD machine posts I am even more inclined to buy from Trucktrader . If you make them I will buy it from you TT.

Catzuk I posted up on here to get this 100% out in the open, I have had someone bad mouthing me for copying "his" idea for a year. and I was nice and called him on the phone and had a hour talk with him when I found out we were working on the same product.

d.d., doesn't matter how much you backpeddle trying to be nice after the fact. It doesn't speak as loudly as the shit you talk about others who are trying to do the same thing.

You could sell these for 5 bucks but I'd never throw a dollar your way.

Truck trader hopefully the twin stick works for ya. I would buy from you if I had a need for one. Also thanks for the bender can't wait to get it!!

slam me if you like.
how should of I handled it?
keep my mouth shut and let them spend $5,000 to $8,000 to run a 100 sets off to only then get my product done and then sell cheaper to be in the market?

Should I just read this post and throw out the 100+ hours and over a grand I`m into the twin sticks at this point?

If you read the link you well see I have been working on this my self for a long time, mostly do to the dammm patent. If you want to throw mud throw it at the jackass that has kept every one from buying these sticks for so long , All I`m trying to do is make a good product and get around some dead beat with a patent and make a few bucks. I`m sorry if pointing out that my cost to make the product is lower than jobing it out but its the truth.

Duffy,

You were man enough to apologize and that's good enough for me. I hope you do get these in production very soon for the good of everyone in the zuk community. I do appreciate your PM and the intent of your message. If you can get these out quickly, more power to you. I hope it works out for you and for all of us. Now let's get back to getting those twin sticks out!

If you decide not to release them for some reason please let me know so I can proceed. I'm going to continue getting cost estimates just in case things don't work out. Best of luck to you.

Vince

buy from who ever you want to , at what ever price you want , this is the USA and its a free county.

I well back shelf the sammi sticks for a few months and let truck trader have a go at it if he likes, but I well say that as for his pics he is 100% in violation of the patent and when he gets the costs back for threading , bending, milling , turning , heat treating , welding , assembling , boxing , etc
and thats not even the upfront cost of molds,programming, fixtures, drawings ETC.

He might look at this the same as "EVERY" one else has for the last 5+ years

************************************************** ********
And to top it off pottor can let him walk all over his patent for years and then come in and clean him out
so I hop for truck traders sake he gets set up right in business so he can save his ass.
************************************************** ********
off hand I would say about $20,000 to make the first run of 100 and at any time some one else can come in and take over the market

************************************************** ********
good luck
Duffy

Duffy - Perhaps you were in the process of writing your message before you saw mine, judging by the time stamp that's probably what happened. You are correct in that it is not a cheap undertaking and this is not what I do for a living. It's just something I wanted to do to help the Suzuki community as a whole. If you're reallly that close to releasing the twin stick then please do. And don't worry about me and Brad Potter as far as the patent stuff goes. I've corresponded with him and he's okay with what I'm doing. And I'm still very curious to see what you've come up with to get around the patent. Perhaps we'll see it soon?

D.D. Machine; you just lost a couple dozen customers right off the bat. Truck Trader is trying to help out the Samurai Community and has presented everything as a vendor and a friend should. Your tone alone makes me want to go with TTrader's. Sorry Bro

Yeah, we have a jeep twinstick boot off a dana 300 and you can make it work, we could also make a pair of rubber gloves work for that matter. We were trying to come up with something that looked and fit a little nicer. But it may turn out that it's not worth making one for it and we will have to make something else work.
here is my boot solution seals perfect and looks clean its an early jeep boot with a larg c-clip in the stock ring
http://www.zuwharrie.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10186/twinstick1.jpg

D.D. Machine; you just lost a couple dozen customers right off the bat. Truck Trader is trying to help out the Samurai Community and has presented everything as a vendor and a friend should. Your tone alone makes me want to go with TTrader's. Sorry Bro

YEAH!! What he said! :flipoff2:

Duffy,

You were man enough to apologize and that's good enough for me. I hope you do get these in production very soon for the good of everyone in the zuk community. I do appreciate your PM and the intent of your message. If you can get these out quickly, more power to you. I hope it works out for you and for all of us. Now let's get back to getting those twin sticks out!

If you decide not to release them for some reason please let me know so I can proceed. I'm going to continue getting cost estimates just in case things don't work out. Best of luck to you.
Duffy - Perhaps you were in the process of writing your message before you saw mine, judging by the time stamp that's probably what happened. You are correct in that it is not a cheap undertaking and this is not what I do for a living. It's just something I wanted to do to help the Suzuki community as a whole. If you're reallly that close to releasing the twin stick then please do. And don't worry about me and Brad Potter as far as the patent stuff goes. I've corresponded with him and he's okay with what I'm doing. And I'm still very curious to see what you've come up with to get around the patent. Perhaps we'll see it soon?

Trucktrader, you're a class act.

NOTE: I'm revising what I wrote in this post because Tech Tim and Catzuk said what I was trying to say....see the next two posts in this thread....just much more eloquently than I could ever do. Thanks guys.

Duffy, the reason people are slamming you is due to the way you came on this thread saying you had been working on this for a couple years and that when you release your product you are going to beat the price by 30% AND you said this like everyone was supposed to know that you have been working on it.

The thread you provided a link to is over a year old and no where in it did you say you were working on one. Only that you build twin sticks for just about every other t-case out there and you might do one for a Sami if you can change the patent by 20%.

The way to have handled it would have been to first apologize for hijacking the thread, then say remember my old post about maybe building a Sami twin stick, well here is what I've been working on and then post up a couple pics to show it.

Don't come onto another guys thread, expect everyone to know that you have been working on one and then undercut his price; that would be TROLLing.

Catzuk I posted up on here to get this 100% out in the open, I have had someone bad mouthing me for copying "his" idea for a year. and I was nice and called him on the phone and had a hour talk with him when I found out we were working on the same product.

Thats good that you called him. We are a small community of wheelers, zuks that is, but are growing every day. There needs to be more support for what we do. There are way too many vendors out there that are assclowns and will under cut the good guys to make a quick buck and offer shoddy products. We see this all the time here on Pirate. Read up in the general 4x4 section, a lot of machine shops and other vendors are always back peddleing trying to save face when they mouth off or demeaner others. A few vendors have learned the hard way that we, the wheeling community and general consumers, are sick of it and do have the power to put them out of business. Referalls make all the difference in this business.

So back to the topic at hand. Where are we in the production of these said twin sticks? Pics available yet? Real pricing?

Trucktrader, you are a stand up guy for keeping your cool on this. Some would have come unglued i'm sure. I fully understand if you don't produce these as if someone else is working on it, then it may not be worth your while or expense. However, if the design's are different, which one is better? Maybey equal, but a few pics would help us, the consumer, decide what we like and feel will hold up. I still like the idea of the DIY kit first posted by Trucktrader. Then I could custom my sticks for location. But a full kit for a "stock" style finish would be nice also.

Again, a thanks to all who are trying to get these to the market. Funny how something so simple can be such a pain in the ass! :flipoff2:

Thanks for the kind words guys. Just a quick update - Today was yet another step in the process and we're considering redesigning the shifter to accomodate a custom made boot. My buddy Alan has ordered the materials and is working on developing a custom boot for this application.

I still think that if D.D Machine is that close to release we're all better off just letting him run with it. However, I will continue pursuing this project just to make sure we aren't stuck once again without a twin stick for the sammy. Stay tuned.

Again, a thanks to all who are trying to get these to the market. Funny how something so simple can be such a pain in the ass! :flipoff2:



It's my belief that someone with a Samurai ran over a Gypsy's dog or something years ago, and he laid a curse on the whole lot.

It's my belief that someone with a Samurai ran over a Gypsy's dog or something years ago, and he laid a curse on the whole lot.


:laughing: Thats funny right there. Probably not far from the truth!!! :D

T. T. I would be interested in the diy kit, so put me down for one as well.

Nice work T.T. Put me on the list. Just name your price. I'll take 2.

I wish SOMEBODY would sell this. Have cash in hand and am too lazy to try and make one myself.

DK

I wish SOMEBODY would sell this. Have cash in hand and am too lazy to try and make one myself.

DK


And here is the biggest problems with the whole twin stick debate. there would be no arguments over who's buying from who if everyone involved jsut stopped. Jesus, a man has patented something with his money. It doesn't matter if he makes it or not, others are building and selling his idea. (I say his because he holds the patent.) to that I say way to go guys. Let's stab a fellow wheeler in the back. How much are you guys sending Brad in royalties for using his design. TT, Brad can be your best friend and tell you great, build em. And his lawyer can still legally bend you over in court 10 years from now. I'd get it in writing (and you should still be sending him a a cut). I'm not sure what the fascination of the Zuk twin stick is though. Does it really add coolness to a pimped mall ride? It allows 2lo, but no rear disconnect. In a vehicle as light as a Sammi, 2 lo isn't needed. If you need low gear, then you probably need 4wd.

and to some of you talking shit about how people should and shouldn't sell things, look in the mirror. Jeeppartz knows who he is.

And here is the biggest problems with the whole twin stick debate. there would be no arguments over who's buying from who if everyone involved jsut stopped. Jesus, a man has patented something with his money. It doesn't matter if he makes it or not, others are building and selling his idea. (I say his because he holds the patent.) to that I say way to go guys. Let's stab a fellow wheeler in the back. How much are you guys sending Brad in royalties for using his design. TT, Brad can be your best friend and tell you great, build em. And his lawyer can still legally bend you over in court 10 years from now. I'd get it in writing (and you should still be sending him a a cut). I'm not sure what the fascination of the Zuk twin stick is though. Does it really add coolness to a pimped mall ride? It allows 2lo, but no rear disconnect. In a vehicle as light as a Sammi, 2 lo isn't needed. If you need low gear, then you probably need 4wd.

and to some of you talking shit about how people should and shouldn't sell things, look in the mirror. Jeeppartz knows who he is.

:rolleyes: :shaking:

He has had the patent this long and still hasn't sold them, he never will.

He should give someone the rights to make them and get a small royalty. As it is now he doesn't get shit and everyone still wants one.

My friend Alan has ordered the materials to make the boot and they should be here soon, so we'll give that a go. I will get some more info on costs for making the shift forks and machining the insert next week. I'll keep you guys posted.

I see a few people posting up concerns about the patent and what may happen if I produce this, so again I will say not to worry. I have it in writing from Brad that he's okay with me doing this. To show his intent and what type of person he is, I have a direct quote for you from his email - "I really do hope you make your shifter available to the Samurai community since this will take some pressure off me." Obviously he's a good guy and wants what's best for the community while still trying to preserve his patent rights. I'm not going to be cranking out a million of these things and selling them through a vendor, so if he chooses to manufacture them I will be happy to step aside and let him proceed with making money on the design that is rightfully his. Sound fair?

And here is the biggest problems with the whole twin stick debate. there would be no arguments over who's buying from who if everyone involved jsut stopped. Jesus, a man has patented something with his money. It doesn't matter if he makes it or not, others are building and selling his idea. (I say his because he holds the patent.) to that I say way to go guys. Let's stab a fellow wheeler in the back. How much are you guys sending Brad in royalties for using his design. TT, Brad can be your best friend and tell you great, build em. And his lawyer can still legally bend you over in court 10 years from now. I'd get it in writing (and you should still be sending him a a cut). I'm not sure what the fascination of the Zuk twin stick is though. Does it really add coolness to a pimped mall ride? It allows 2lo, but no rear disconnect. In a vehicle as light as a Sammi, 2 lo isn't needed. If you need low gear, then you probably need 4wd.

and to some of you talking shit about how people should and shouldn't sell things, look in the mirror. Jeeppartz knows who he is.


HalfFastFord - Obviously you have a very strong opinion about this. What you don't know is that Brad told me to go ahead and make them, and also told me to be sure that I make some money doing it. I'm not stabbing anyone in the back or ripping anyone off. Perhaps you don't see a need for this and that's fine. Obviously a lot of folks feel differently so to each his own right?

HalfFastFord - Obviously you have a very strong opinion about this. What you don't know is that Brad told me to go ahead and make them, and also told me to be sure that I make some money doing it. I'm not stabbing anyone in the back or ripping anyone off. Perhaps you don't see a need for this and that's fine. Obviously a lot of folks feel differently so to each his own right?

I have a strong opinion on it only from the standpoint that brad has a patent and he hasn't produced. For whatever reason, it doesn't matter. The whole issue is with the patent. there are legal ways to do things involving patents that involve lawyers, contracts and royalties. I'm not out to bash anyone for producing it, it just seems Brad is getting screwed in the end. I've seen your posts about what Brad has had to say about it, and I'm glad you have something in writing. that will further solidify my bais towards you producing them. However, the most important person involved hasn't chimed in yet. Vince, i'll take you at your word that you have Brad's approval, you've never done me wrong, but this was the first mention of having his approval to do this (in writing). I'd just hate to see anyone get in trouble for good intentions if he changed his mind later. I wish you well in your business venture and wish you success with it. As for the need. I just wonder about the practicality of it. Zukers are known to be notoriously cheap when it comes to parts and mods. That's not a bad thing. Hope to get to wheel with you someday, until then, I'm glad I've had the chance to air my concerns.

when i modify my zuki, everything i do is for function, and not this so called bling factor, or whatever you guys call it, but this twin stick deal, for some reason, i think i really need one. i wish someone would produce it, because i will buy one.

TT any word yet on what it is looking like? :)
I have to go out of town for work latter this week.
Headed to Long Beach, so I may not be on till the first part of next week.
If you decide to sell them make sure you get me on the list.
I think they will go fast. :smokin:

I don't see it happening for a while GRW, there's a lot that goes into getting these machined. But I will keep you posted if I have something for you. Thanks.

so is anybody selling these things yet?????????????

so is anybody selling these things yet?????????????


no, people just like to talk about it, and get all worked up.

You might want to make your own. I got tired of all the hoopla and designed my own. I know I got one that way without the wait. BUT, when TT gets his going I WILL buy one from him for the support and to have a spare setup just in case.

Here's a quick update for you guys. I just got back from the machine shop and I should have final production numbers before the end of the week. At this point I'm just costing out the lower part of the twin stick (minus the shift handles). I will check into the manufacturing of the handles after I get the lower portion done. My thought is to make an initial run of 50-100 and see how it goes. This means you would need to bend your old handles and find your own boot (nitril glove maybe?). My friend Alan is working on making his own boot right now so maybe someday we will have one available. But for now I think it would be just to sell it just as a basic kit. If I decide to go for it I will post up and buy my yellow star! :D

when you get everything all worked out and get your yellow star I want dibs on one. I would just have to have it shiped to an APO address. I like the looks of your set up.

when you get everything all worked out and get your yellow star I want dibs on one. I would just have to have it shiped to an APO address. I like the looks of your set up.

I would be proud to help out our folks in the U.S. military.:usa: I will make sure we take care of you and anyone else serving our country when these are ready.

Another quick update - things are looking really good. I met with the CAD guy for a few minutes today and we scheduled a follow up meeting to finalize things.

Id Take A Kit For $50

Been a few days since I have been on,
I am still interested in when you get the details worked out. :)

Latest update - okay, these are in the design mode as we speak. The CAD stuff will be done with official production prototypes available by mid next week. If all looks good on the final pricing, we will begin production of our first batch of 100 and I can finally get my yellow star! I would estimate that we would have them available for purchase in March if all goes well.

Based on preliminary cost estimates I can almost guarantee that we're a go on this. We will start with this first batch and see how things go. If they sell out pretty quick I will make another batch. I just don't want to be stuck with a bunch of parts if there is just an initial demand and then it tapers off quickly.

We may just break even on the first round because of the up front costs. Future runs would be cheaper of course because all the hard work is done. Wish us luck.

Count me in!!!!!!::grinpimp:

I'll take one as well when you get them going. To lazy to take the time to build my own.

Count me in, please.

Hey Truck Trader,
PM me when you get ready to ship these. I will buy at least one set, if not two. Thanks for finally getting these things in production! Been waiting years for this.:D

I want two since I live local will pick up. Have family in B.P. Real close to you. To bad they won't be ready for T.D.S. Would like to show it off!!!

are they almost done? :D I take one when youre ready to sell.

I will get the first production prototypes back next Wednesday, if all looks good we move forward. After that it should take about a week or so to have the first run completed. Hang in there guys, almost done!

I'll be pulling my hat from the ring.
I have too many other things going on right now to finish mine up.
I may build a few for friends and such, but I wont interfere with your marketing.

Good luck with it! :D

sweet, when you got them ready PM me an address or paypal and I will get you cash and my address.

Yep, I'm still interested!!! Glad things worked out on the machining. My only concern, ok not really a concern, is the boot. I would like something more finished looking than the glove idea.

Although I have used worse when my stock one got all hard and didnt seat and was pukeing out gear fluid on all uphill climbs. All I had was a condom and a zip tie. It worked till I got home though. Protection like non other! :laughing:

May have to go back and look at that heep one. Hmmmm......

Yep, I'm still interested!!! Glad things worked out on the machining. My only concern, ok not really a concern, is the boot. I would like something more finished looking than the glove idea.

Although I have used worse when my stock one got all hard and didnt seat and was pukeing out gear fluid on all uphill climbs. All I had was a condom and a zip tie. It worked till I got home though. Protection like non other! :laughing:

May have to go back and look at that heep one. Hmmmm......

I agree with you about having something more professional looking for a boot in an ideal world. Oddly enough that is the hardest part of bringing something like this to market from what I'm finding. The other stuff like getting parts machined is pretty straight forward. I think the Jeep boot can be made to work with a couple of zip ties and sheer determination and that would be the cheapest and best looking ready made solution. If it makes you feel any better, my buddy Alan has created a plug to make a boot for the twin sticks. We just won't have it ready anytime soon because that's a completely separate manufacturing process and an additional expense to make it. We can make the boots by hand from this mold but it would be very time consuming to do so. Quite frankly, it's just not worth our time to do it if we can only sell it for $5 or so. Both Alan and I have full time jobs that pay us pretty well so it's hard to justify doing this stuff on the side if it's real time consuming. We're trying to walk the fine line of making something that's very nice quality while at the same time keeping it affordable for the cheap-ass suzuki folks! :D I can't promise you that we will ever offer a boot for sale until I look into the costs. My guess is that the per unit cost is going to be way too expensive because of the small quantities we're talking about here. If we ordered 10,000 from China we could probably get them for $5 each - but that isn't going to happen. We're working on a shoestring budget and small profit margin here folks!

Let us get the twin stick kit completed and out the door and then we can look into making the boots at a later date. Another option we're considering is an old fashioned hand stitched leather boot. Sounds crazy, but that's what they used to use before all the rubber mold stuff. They would be cheap and easy to produce, hey it worked for the model T guys!

Oh yea, the official product name we're going to use is "Evil Twin". I thought that one up myself! :grinpimp:

Rock on TTrader; Will you be going to TDS?

i'll take at least one. maybe three:smokin:

Rock on TTrader; Will you be going to TDS?

Unfortunately no, my truck is getting an exo cage and it's not done yet. :( There's always next year I guess.

So it looks like these are going to happen after all.
I am still in for a set.
Hell i wouild even prepay to help off set some cost if it is needed.

If your prepared to send these over to AUS I will be in for at least 1.

No one over here dose and good stuff for zooks.

Cheers Nick

I read over the patent file very briefly, does it say anywhere in there that the sami twin stick is patented, ot just twin stick in general?? Could this guys start going after anyone who makes a twin stick of any sort?

I read over the patent file very briefly, does it say anywhere in there that the sami twin stick is patented, ot just twin stick in general?? Could this guys start going after anyone who makes a twin stick of any sort?

I know Brad (Rollerskate) has a patent on the Samurai version but I'm not sure about others though. I checked in with him yesterday just to make sure he's still okay with me producing these and he is. I hope that this will help folks realize that he really is a nice guy and never intended to hold things up on sammy twin sticks. Stuff happens sometimes outside ones control. Anyway, cheers to Brad for giving us the thumbs up on these! :beer:

If your prepared to send these over to AUS I will be in for at least 1.

No one over here dose and good stuff for zooks.

Cheers Nick

No problem, we'll just have to figure out shipping when they're ready.

So it looks like these are going to happen after all.
I am still in for a set.
Hell i wouild even prepay to help off set some cost if it is needed.

I appreciate the offer scout. I think we're good on the funds so far. If it ends up costing a little more than expected I will let everyone know.

One thought I had on making the boots, I may offer them up once we get some estimates on production costs. I probably would ask for a deposit or payment up front for that because it looks like it may be a very expensive proposition with limited return.

Shoot me a P.M. when there avaliable.

<---------- Now you guys know I'm serious, check out the Yellow Star!

I am ready to send a payment as soon as they are ready to ship.

Put me in line for one:D

i will definitly get one as well,....put me inline as well,....thx:smokin:

please shoot me a pm when they are ready for order. I have been wanting to do this for awhile now.

I'm ready :smokin:

i will definitly get one as well,....put me inline as well,....thx:smokin:

Why???" Your junk just sits in the driveway,right next to the other POS :flipoff2:
Get you chit fixed so you can join us on the 21st ...of April, we're running the whole loop of Crushers :D

put me in line as well. just let me know when and where to send the cash:smokin:

TT i'm teeling you that boot I put the pic up form the early jeep seals great if I had trimed it up more it would have been slightly cleaner. However withthe inexpensive cost it fits the bill even for a kit it would work great

TT i'm teeling you that boot I put the pic up form the early jeep seals great if I had trimed it up more it would have been slightly cleaner. However withthe inexpensive cost it fits the bill even for a kit it would work great

I believe you, in fact I have pointed out in several of my posts that the early jeep twin stick boot can be made to work. I can't find that link to that page at the moment. I've seen it in other posts where guys have built twin sticks. It may be the best solution to this problem. Here are some pre-made boots that we have looked at but they look too big or made for application on top of the tunnel:

http://www.quadratec.com/products/52253_002.htm
http://www.currieenterprises.com/CEStore/Product569.aspx?id=1047
http://www.tomsbroncoparts.com/product.php?id=354
http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Product/tf-Browse/s-10101/Pr-p_Product.CATENTRY_ID:2003120/p-2003120/N-111+250+600002742/c-10101

They all look pretty much the same. I saw one on another Bronco page that looked a little smaller that I can't find the link to at the moment.

pm me with the price I'm interested!

Thanks

I believe you, in fact I have pointed out in several of my posts that the early jeep twin stick boot can be made to work. I can't find that link to that page at the moment. I've seen it in other posts where guys have built twin sticks. It may be the best solution to this problem. Here are some pre-made boots that we have looked at but they look too big or made for application on top of the tunnel:

http://www.quadratec.com/products/52253_002.htm
http://www.currieenterprises.com/CEStore/Product569.aspx?id=1047
http://www.tomsbroncoparts.com/product.php?id=354
http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Product/tf-Browse/s-10101/Pr-p_Product.CATENTRY_ID:2003120/p-2003120/N-111+250+600002742/c-10101

They all look pretty much the same. I saw one on another Bronco page that looked a little smaller that I can't find the link to at the moment.


here you go:
http://www.the-jeep-guy.com/Interior%20Accessories.htm
new replacement early cJ twin stick boot
$5.00 each
its like 16 down
http://www.the-jeep-guy.com/INTERIOR%20ACCESSORIES%20TWIN%20STIX%20BOOT.jpg

That's the one I was looking for. Thanks. Damn that's a big pic! The PBB server is probably screaming for mercy with an image that size.

That's the one I was looking for. Thanks. Damn that's a big pic! The PBB server is probably screaming for mercy with an image that size.

didn't want you to miss it this time :D

Can anyone think of a reason why the twin stick would work with a Calmini 5.14:1 kit? cause i can't.

Mr. Truck Trader...you dont take credit card do you??? or maybe some kind of indentured servitude from a local college student?

Can anyone think of a reason why the twin stick would work with a Calmini 5.14:1 kit? cause i can't.

Mr. Truck Trader...you dont take credit card do you??? or maybe some kind of indentured servitude from a local college student?

It doesn't matter what gearset you have, it will work with any samurai t-case regardless of ratio. The only pre-requisite (college jargon) is that you have the detent ball removed. I will do a detailed write up on this if needed but I think it's pretty well documented already. I will make sure we have the ability to take credit cards when we're ready, or indentured servitude for that matter! :D

Oh yea, If you attend Cal Poly Pomona I will give you an alumni discount!

looking good TT. I'll be in for one.

Oh yea, If you attend Cal Poly Pomona I will give you an alumni discount!

What if we go to the REAL Cal Poly. SAN LUIS OBISPO!!! jk jk. Please dont mark up my price now. :D

It doesn't matter what gearset you have, it will work with any samurai t-case regardless of ratio. The only pre-requisite (college jargon) is that you have the detent ball removed. I will do a detailed write up on this if needed but I think it's pretty well documented already. I will make sure we have the ability to take credit cards when we're ready, or indentured servitude for that matter! :D

Oh yea, If you attend Cal Poly Pomona I will give you an alumni discount!

Sweet! Thanks TT. That's damn decent of you. can't wait til it's ready!

Red90Runner-I'm up in cayucos/morro bay all the time. if you want to save some shipping, i wouldn't mind bringing the set up to you. always down to meet a fellow wheeler...

Red90Runner-I'm up in cayucos/morro bay all the time. if you want to save some shipping, i wouldn't mind bringing the set up to you. always down to meet a fellow wheeler...

I'm assuming when you say the "set" that you are referring to the twin stick that TT is selling. Thanks for the offer, but at this moment, I do not have the money for the twin sticks because all my spare money will be going into my 16V swap I should be doing this summer. I would be down to meet you sometime though, if your ever in SLO town. I dont have my sammi down here at school with me either. I should by next year though if all goes well!! :D
-Pat

I am in for one. Good luck and all haste on your manufacturing. Thanks also for the boot tip. I think there is also a boot for the interior available that has been posted earlier in the thread....

Shoot me a PM, I am planning a Sami build on Xtreme and am always interested in "new" products.

Shoot me a PM, I am planning a Sami build on Xtreme and am always interested in "new" products.


Whoo Hoo!


It's aboot bloody time! Don't screw it up :flipoff2:



:timmy double double: :D

Shoot me a PM, I am planning a Sami build on Xtreme and am always interested in "new" products.

Ian, I PM'd you. Just let me know what I can do to help. Like Uzi says, it's about time for a killer sammy buildup on your show! :smokin:

i think my discovery of the boot deserves a discount on one of your twin sticks lol
acctully i liek the way your set up looks i may have to buy a set! mine is complicated to take out and put in

i think my discovery of the boot deserves a discount on one of your twin sticks lol
acctully i liek the way your set up looks i may have to buy a set! mine is complicated to take out and put in

We'll see what we can work out for ya! :D

I've been useing that boot for 2 years.:smokin:

Looks NICE! I'll be wantin' one. :smokin:

1) When is this going to be available?

2) Still going to offer a DIY kit? If so, how much? I have a spare TC shifter, and could bend and weld my own handles on.

Thanks,
Danny

1) When is this going to be available?

2) Still going to offer a DIY kit? If so, how much? I have a spare TC shifter, and could bend and weld my own handles on.

Thanks,
Danny

DR

It will definitely be sold as a kit at this point. It's way too difficult/expensive to offer a full blown twin stick with handles welded on and a boot that's ready to drop in. Believe it or not, the boot is the real killer with this process. Injection molding is VERY expensive in the small quantities we're talking about here, and it's too time consuming to make them ourselves by hand. The jeep boot mentioned above will not work for this application because of the amount of movement needed on the levers. My friend Alan bought a couple to try and he says it's a no go. The fulcrum point of our shifter is lower than the other twin stick setups where they drill through the top of the case. This means a longer throw on the shifter and more material would be needed on the boot. I could bore you with more details but I won't.

I'm still working on getting these produced so I don't have a date on when they will be available nor do I have a final total cost to calculate a unit price yet. I will keep you posted.

Any updates on the twin stick kit???

Any updates on the twin stick kit???

As a matter of fact, I spent a few hours today checking up on things and making sure everything is moving along. All of the CAD drawing is done and I'm just waiting on pieces to be produced at this point. I think I've figured out why nobody has done this before, it's a lot of work and it's expensive! Hang in there a little while longer. I will get this done soon.

Installed unit. The shift is very crisp and tight. Ignore the shift pattern on the factory knob, left handle is 2wd/4wd and the right is hi/lo.

So selecting 2wd and then Hi would just be the Normal highway driving not the slightly reduced gearing you get as if you were in 4wd Hi...? New to the whole Twin stick Idea but very interested in getting one...? Will you post to Australia for me:)

Sorry if this has all ready been said so many pages too read.

2WD high and 4WD high have the same reduction ratio. What it allows you to do is select 2WD or 4WD in high or low. so you can run 2WD low for areas where you need some the gear reduction but dont need 4WD. and with it there is no side to side movement of the shifters, only front to back. So you choose 2WD/4WD with one, and the other lever selects low range or high range as a comlpetely seperate operation.

Well said Rat.

Mud Pig - I have some other "mates" in Australia that want some. No problem, I will get a set over to our friends down under. We'll talk more when they're ready.

Thanks for the updates man.....

Thanks for the updates man.....

time for this week's WTF is up

Spent my lunch hour getting the finalized CNC drawings for the shift forks. I now have everything ready to feed a waterjet cutting machine - I just need to get the estimates back from folks to see how much it will cost. If there anyone out there has access to a waterjet machine and would like to help out, please PM me.
I also checked in on the first production copies of the billet inserts. They're looking good. So that's what's up for this week. I'm still working on it guys.

getting closer it seems TT

getting closer it seems TT

Yup, but even I am surprised at how much time and effort it's taking to do this. I've never done anything like this before and it's been a real learning experience! I'm pushing to get them done as soon as I can.

For anyone trying to figure out which boots to use:

http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content/topic,57601.msg616829.html

Time for the weekly update. I got the shift fork prototypes back today and they look awsome! One more step down, just a few more to go.

I know you guys are tired of waiting for these, I am too. There's not a day that goes by where I don't think about it and wonder how I can move this along quicker. But what I'm finding out is that these things take time. It's also been more expensive than I originally thought. Anyway, I have both production prototypes completed now so it's time for a test fit for proper function. After that, all I have to do is pull the trigger and they should be done in a couple of weeks as long as the material is readily available, but so far it looks like that's a 10 - 30 day lag because China is buying up all the 4340. Here's some pics to show the first production prototypes.

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c166/TruckTrader/Samurai&#37;20Twin%20Stick/prototypepics001.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c166/TruckTrader/Samurai%20Twin%20Stick/prototypepics002.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c166/TruckTrader/Samurai%20Twin%20Stick/prototypepics003.jpg

See, I really was working on it! The shift forks will be 4340 hardened steel and the bushing is all billet aluminum. I'm very pleased with how these have come out so far.

Looks awesome! Showed the picture to my Sammy and it's droolin! Thanks for the update.

Jay

lookin good!

I got all the cost numbers back and it looks like these are going to be A LOT more expensive to produce than I thought. With cost of high quality materials, CAD design work and everything else involved to manufacture them there's not much margin in this at all. If you factor in our time to do it - it's definitely just a service to the community and not a money making venture for us. I will prepare you guys now for the sticker shock. It looks like they will end up costing around $100 for the kit. I could probably get some sticks made and get some shift knobs too but that would just add more cost to what is already an expensive kit. We really don't want to get any deeper in this for the moment. As it is I'm already wondering if this will be too much for folks to spend.

What can I say, this stuff adds up when you use quality materials and nice manufacturing processes in a low volume. These will also be made by local U.S. shops and not sent out to China. If I was making 1000's of them it would be a lot cheaper. I know the zuk guys are cheap bastards so I may not have too many folks that want one and that's fine, I understand. I'm going to keep my word and follow through like I said I would. We will produce 100 units and hope to recover the costs, we're pretty deep in this already. Alan and I are fronting the money on this out of our own pockets of course and we're hoping that we can eventually sell them all. If it turns out the cost is too much for folks it may be a limited production run and we will make this batch of 100 and when they're gone, they're gone. We'll see how things go.

In defense of the product, this stuff is really nice that's professionally machined and is made of the best materials. It shifts tight and crisp and should last a lifetime, so pretty much a one time purchase.

I'd throw $100 on it.

I'd throw $100 on it.

Agreed.

IMO $100 is still a cheap mod.

IMO I think for $100 it is a well worthy product!

Let me know when you are ready to start taking orders, We have 6 zuks in our club that would be interested!

IMO I think for $100 it is a well worthy product!

Let me know when you are ready to start taking orders, We have 6 zuks in our club that would be interested!


Thanks Shane. We're beginning production this week. Depending on availability of material they could be ready by the end of April.

Another question for you guys - If somebody wants shifter handles made I can check into doing that. Basically I would have 1/2" round stock threaded for the knob. If I provided 2 handles "unbent" plus two knobs it may add another $20 to the kit. If anyone wants those I can look into just providing those on demand. I could provide a template on how to bend the shape of the handles, but this would allow for customization for folks with body lifts, consoles or any other custom needs.

I think having the options of knobs would be great, but the top of the shifters in a 1/2" thread would also be great!

1/2" Thread would allow for the use of many after market shift knobs out there. Including the cool pistol grip shifters from MC :D

count me in on a set with shift rods. I know how much work goes into one of these set-ups Thanks

I wont one with the shift rods and template .

Whenever they are ready I will send you the money .

Thanks for making these .

I will take a set

Okay, well you guys have given me the courage to move forward. I pulled the trigger and put a hefty deposit down on the material. It's back ordered two weeks or more so I wanted to get the process going. The good news is that the machinist will make these the same day he gets the material so there will be no lag there. In the meantime, I will check on the shifter handles. I will have them threaded in a common 1/2" pattern that should accept lots of other aftermarket knobs. I already know what the knobs cost so that's no big deal. If I order 200 I get a discount so maybe I will just go ahead and do that. I'll keep you posted.

I still want one, I may even grab 2 so that when I get back to the US I can get a second samurai and have the twin stick. let me know when you start taking orders.

Vince I still want 2 sets. Once mine are in the rest of my Mad Zuk friends will see how kwel they are. And want one to. Thanks again for going threw with this! Give us cheap BASTARDS What we want!!!!:D :smokin: :D :confused:

The yota twin stick kits go for 199.

I dont think 100 is unreasonable.

The yota twin stick kits go for 199.

I dont think 100 is unreasonable.

X2

Another update. I'm getting estimates on providing two 11" sticks for shifter handles with the kit along with two knobs to go with it. The sticks themselves will be threaded 1/2"x13 which is a very common thread size for aftermarket knobs. The knobs are comfort grip rubber material that are 1 3/8" in diameter. I'm thinking it will be pretty cheap to add this and it would make it much more complete. I'll post up when I get the estimates back.

i would be in for a set with shiftrts

Another update. I'm getting estimates on providing two 11" sticks for shifter handles with the kit along with two knobs to go with it. The sticks themselves will be threaded 1/2"x13 which is a very common thread size for aftermarket knobs. The knobs are comfort grip rubber material that are 1 3/8" in diameter. I'm thinking it will be pretty cheap to add this and it would make it much more complete. I'll post up when I get the estimates back.


A set of machined aluminum knobs with the pattern would be awesome . I would go $20 a piece on the knobs if you think thats doable ?

I'd say the whole package sounds like a killer deal!!!!

I still want a kit... With shifters and knobs.

Have you started a list yet? you may be closer to 100 than you think.

Count me in on a complete kit.:smokin:

Still in for this also.
Just let me know when and where to send the payment.

I'm still in for a kit with shifters! Awesome work TT!

Would you be willing to bend the handles if requested? Just a simple non-body-lifted zuk.

I am in for the kit. I will do my own rods and knobs.

If you decide to do pre-orders, let me know and I will paypal the bucks or ?

You ROCK for taking the lead and producing them.

Thanks!

TT,
I'm still in for a set. PM me when ready to ship. $100 = cheap mod.

$100 for better shifting and never having to worry about a rubber bushing again is a deal you cant beat. and its all bling compared to everything else im gonna run.

Thanks for the great feedback guys. I have received a price for the handles and shifter knobs and it seems to be very reasonable. It looks like I can offer the basic kit for $100 or so, and then offer up a "deluxe kit" with the handles and knobs for maybe another $25. I'm still working out final numbers but I think that will be very close. The deluxe kit would require that the handles be bent by you, and of course make your own boot. My partner Alan will probably chime in here soon and maybe even post up a pic of the boot that he's making for our shifters. Unfortunately, I don't see a commercially viable option for offering this to you guys. The injection molders want too much money, and it takes a lot of time to handmake them. Alan and I both have full time jobs plus hobbies that keep us very busy so I don't think we can make them on our own. I will keep looking for a solution that will work. Several folks have posted up pics of the Jeep twin stick boots. I don't know if those have enough articulation in them to allow for free movement of our sticks. My partner Alan does not think it will work. He bought two of them to try it out so we'll see. I will keep you posted.

Thanks TruckTrader

Put me down for one. Thanks for the hard work!! Baked

You can put me down for a deluxe kit.
If you have extra when the dust settles let me know and I can pick up a 2nd for the LWB.

I will need two of these myself. Thanks JJ

TruckTrader:

I'm in for one of your "EvilTwin Deluxe Kits"! I'm just watchin' & waitin' for when they're ready to go.

Like Baked & others have said, "Thanks for the hard work!!" A whole lot of us appreciate all the time & work you're puttin' into this. I'm sure you be getting a lot of follow-up orders from friends of the 1st batch buyers. Thanks again for bringing this top-notch version of a long awaited product out to reality for us.

:smokin:
Scott

where can i get mine and do ineed 2lo kit first pleaes email me at IROZUK@aol.com please email me thanks fred

You have all been more than kind during this whole process, I really appreciate all the support. It makes it all worthwhile in the end. Everything is sailing along smoothly now. I ended up ordering the handles and knobs so those will be ready whenever we launch this. We're just waiting for the steel to arrive at the machine shop. Other than that, we're good to go.

I did talk to someone yesterday that does mold making. We're going to try to get something going with a boot that seals to the t-case that is cost effective. Thanks again to everyone for their support.

iwould like to get twin stick for my sami please email me on how IROKZUK@aol.com or you can call me my name is fred 1 775 742 8618 thanks

iwould like to get twin stick for my sami please email me on how IROKZUK@aol.com or you can call me my name is fred 1 775 742 8618 thanks

iwould like to get twin stick for my sami please email me on how IROKZUK@aol.com or you can call me my name is fred 1 775 742 8618 thanks


Fred, I emailed you at the address you posted but got a mail failure. As stated in the post above these are not yet available. Please check back here in a few weeks. Thanks.

Any word on the moldings for the seal?

Unfortunately, I think we're a ways off from having anything for a boot. I have someone looking at a possible solution but it may be a while before I know anything. I think initially there will have to be a stop gap solution created by the end user. But hopefully we can come up with a solution at some point and offer it up to those that already have the twin sticks.

I have a twin stick in my sidekick transfer case and I am using the rubber glove method and it works great and it's cheap.

http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content/topic,57154.0.html

Someone beat you, i dunno how it compares to your design though.

http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content/topic,57154.0.html

Someone beat you, i dunno how it compares to your design though.

Yeah, I saw that a while ago. His design requires that you drill through the top of the t-case as a pivot point among other things, totally different than what we're doing.

Yeah saw his kit to. Not to bash but I don't want to drill the case. Not much to drill in that area. Still want 2 of yours when there ready!!(with the sticks&knobs) will p/u Thanks again for your hard work and time:) :)

Yeah, I saw that a while ago. His design requires that you drill through the top of the t-case as a pivot point among other things, totally different than what we're doing.

truck trader has a better product, I dont want to have to worry about some set screws coming loose when in in the trail, and theres no way im going to drill the shift tower,

I think truck traders looks a hell of alot better than the one on zuwharrie. I like how this one is drop in, no drilling no other mods other than remove the detent to allow 2lo.

I think truck traders looks a hell of alot better than the one on zuwharrie. I like how this one is drop in, no drilling no other mods other than remove the detent to allow 2lo.

I agree with Rat_ranger.... TT's sticks are actually machined to fit the proper way. I'm in for a set as well when they are ready:smokin:

Maybe I missed it , but could I get it without the stocks and knobs? I am running a remote shifter setup.How fats can I get one and what is your paypal?

Maybe I missed it , but could I get it without the stocks and knobs? I am running a remote shifter setup.How fats can I get one and what is your paypal?

Yeah sorry, this thread is getting rather lengthy. We will sell the twin stick in two forms, one would be a basic kit that includes the aluminum bushing, shift forks and everything you need except for handles, shifter knobs and a boot. We will also offer a deluxe kit with the knobs and handles. So you can have it any way you want it. It looks like the handles and knobs would be another $25 based on what I see so far.

All we're waiting for now is to have the material arrive at the machine shop. After that, it should be produced in a day or two from what I'm told. With any luck they should be done by the end of the month. I will post up as soon as they're ready. I plan to start another thread in the vendor section when we're ready to take orders. I don't want to take money from you guys prematurely. I would rather have them in my hot little hands before accepting orders so I don't make anyone mad if we come across unexpected delays.

Maybe i missed it, but inorder to remove the detent ball, does the case need to be fully split, or just the front cover?

Maybe i missed it, but inorder to remove the detent ball, does the case need to be fully split, or just the front cover?

Unfortunately, any type of twin stick setup will require you to split the case and remove the detent ball.

Can I order my twin stick now?????

Can I order my twin stick now?????

I don't want to take orders until I have them completely done and in my hands. Our hold up is still the material at this point, it should be in sometime next week. Once the machinist has the material he will cut the levers the same day.

Ahhh I don't need no stinkin levers. Just the plug and the little arms. I use a remote shifter.I am too lazy to build one myself and your design is very clean.HURRY UP.LOL

TT, you can put me down for a set! This setup sounds sweet:D

TT, put me in for a set? I aleady got the 'other guys' set, but yours seems like a better design.

TT, put me in for a set? I aleady got the 'other guys' set, but yours seems like a better design.

I think you will be pleased with the design, now if we could just get the chrome moly material! I will check with the waterjet cutter again tomorrow to see if the chrome moly has arrived. It's unbelieveable how hard it is to get this stuff. We paid a $300 premium on the material just to try to get the supplier to ship it out early. Very frustrating. The good news is that the machinist will knock it out in a day or two once it arrives.

Wow Ive been away for a bit and come back too 4 pages worth of progress and everyone going mad for a twin stick...

Awesome work I'm still keen for a twin stick kit when they are ready so count me in. The work you guys are doing is awesome.:)

TT,

Just let me know when yer ready and I'll throw some flow at ya! TIA,

TT, put me in for a set...can you ship to Belgium (europe) payment by creditcard..and how much will the total price be with shipping or airmail..??
When your ready to sell ..please let me know ..and send me an e-mail ...
wessuzi@skynet.be

Thank's

Any Word on material????

I'm really sorry about the delay guys, it's beyond my control. I have everything else lined up and ready to go. Now I'm told the material will be here on May 7th. I will be in Moab next week but I have my partner lined up to get things moving if the material comes in. Once the material is here we will get it cranked out.

I will be sure to let everyone know when they're ready to ship. And I don't mind shipping them internationally, I will be in touch with you guys to work out the details when they're ready. Thanks.

awsome work TT. A big thanks from myself and others that have been waiting for something like this.

sounds sweet TT how much for the delux set up ship to Western Australia post code 6168

thanks Duncan

would be interested in buying twin stick can anyone explane how it works and how hard is it to install and if you need other stuff to make it work i have 87 suki tin top with toy axels yjs in front coiled three link rear 411 gears in axels 6to 1 transfercase gears just looking for more upgrade dose any one have 2low kit ithink its from trial tough please reply with info thanks fred

would be interested in buying twin stick can anyone explane how it works and how hard is it to install and if you need other stuff to make it work i have 87 suki tin top with toy axels yjs in front coiled three link rear 411 gears in axels 6to 1 transfercase gears just looking for more upgrade dose any one have 2low kit ithink its from trial tough please reply with info thanks fred

All you have to do is remove the detent ball in the t-case and the twin sticks will give you the option of 2-lo.

dudoop - when we're done with these I will get you a price shipped. Thanks.

cool thanks would be a great up grade

is that the ballberin inside tcase or iam confused cool thanks fred

did the material come in yet??

Hello everyone,

My name is Alan and I'm the "other guy" involved with this "Evil Twin" twin stick project - I did the initial design and prototype machining/fabrication and I'm the "technical guy" on this one regarding engineering, machining, and material specs for the production run. So far, Vince has been the communicator with all of you, but since he's off on a Moab run this week, I thought I'd write a little something to keep you informed of our progress.

At the present time, the handles (unbent) have been manufactured and are "on the shelf." After a couple of revisions to the production part CAD programs, the billet aluminum shift tower inserts are ready to be made. The knobs and fulcrum pins are on order and should be arriving soon. The jet cut sample lever parts (in mild steel) needed only one minor dimensional modification to be correct for production - this has been done and the revised samples should be arriving in the next couple of days.

So what's the big holdup?

As Vince has previously mentioned, our biggest delay has been obtaining the material to make the selector levers. I have specified that these levers be made of 4043 Cr-Mo alloy steel so that they would be durable in spite of their limited size and all of the abuse that they may see. As it turns out, there is currently a shortage of nearly all Cr-Mo alloy steels, especially in sheet form (which is what we need to produce these levers). This shortage has not only drastically increased the cost of the material, but has us in a holding pattern until the material arrives. We were initially told that it would arrive at the end of April. Then we were told it would be May 9th. I just spoke with the supplier today and he now says that it will be around the third week of this month. As soon as we get the material, our production machinist says that our job will get top priority and will be finished within a couple of days.

I suppose that we could make the levers out of available 1018 steel, but I just don't think that they would perform. Durability would certainly suffer. As such, I would much rather explain the delay/expense than to have to apologize for a lack of quality. Not to be arrogant about this or anything, but I think that you'll find that they are worth the wait. I've designed them to be a "drop-in, twist-lock, five minute install" once the assembly is put together. Tolerances are tight and the feel is crisp and OEM-like. The fit, finish, and material are of quality far superior to anything else I've seen.

I've been working on a boot for the shift tower, but short of injection molding, each boot would have to be a hand urethane layup - far too time intensive for any sort of production run. I've tried a couple of available boots from other applications, but so far have not found anything that has enough articulation between the levers to work with this design... I guess that it's the "old rubber glove trick" for now as injection molding tooling is far too expensive for a limited production run like this (unless someone would like to be a volunteer $ sponsor :shaking: )

Thanks for your patience... We'll keep you posted...

Alan :D

We've only been waiting years for these. To see that you guys are doing this, and obviously trying to do it right, I think we're willing to wait just a little longer. keep up the good work!

I have a few friends who have done the twin stick thing. They all work fine but the boot is a big issue.

Great customer service here guys! I believe this product will be well worth the wait!

:beer:
Shane

I'm still wanting one!!! Any updates?

The fit, finish, and material are of quality far superior to anything else I've seen.

I've been working on a boot for the shift tower, but short of injection molding, each boot would have to be a hand urethane layup - far too time intensive for any sort of production run. I've tried a couple of available boots from other applications, but so far have not found anything that has enough articulation between the levers to work with this design... I guess that it's the "old rubber glove trick" for now as injection molding tooling is far too expensive for a limited production run like this (unless someone would like to be a volunteer $ sponsor :shaking: )

I saw Brad's prototype and played with it. It was a work of art. His hang up was the same as yours, he wanted a perfect item, and that meant an injection molded boot. He had gotten to the point you are at now, and even had made progress on the boot, but coming up with the money for the injection molding brought him to his knees. He could have done it if he outsourced to China, but that was not something he was interested in as he and many co-workers had lost their jobs when their company sent the jobs overseas.

-Wayne