I wanna try and run 39 TSL's on my front Dana 44 with warn & CTM joints will it hold up? Also my question is whats the biggest size tire you could get away with, would it be possible to build a front Dana 44 to handle 42 TSL's ? thanks :skull: :question:

39's are about the max you can run. After that, your pinion would be likely to break under hard wheelin conditions..

If your only running a 6cyl and have low gears like an Atlas how often would you break the front with 39.5 TSL's? and is there any way to stregthen the knuckles on a 44?

You can get Heavy Duty knuckles from an f250. They are 8 lug, and thicker than the bronco/f150 version. They will bolt right up if you know how to work with balljoints.
If you wheel hard, stuff will still break. I would not worry too mutch about it with 39's and ctm/alloy combonation. Just be mindfull when you are crawling. I know a jeep that has 40's and alloy shafts. He has broken one shaft, and his axle tubes are bent. Then again, he is nuts offroad.

I would go 39, and see just how hard you can pound it. If somthing breaks, axleshaft wise, it will be under warranty. Have fun man!

I just completed my 2ND CAL ROCS, I run (4) wheel steering w/ 4 CTM u-joints (Dana44), I run 38.5x14x15 Swamper SX's. I with Mosser shafts. I have had those 4 joints completely bound with all of the weight shifting to one side and have not broke one yet. They are well worth the money.

My 44 TSL's trashed my D44 ball joints in about 300 pavement miles. Those were premium high-end ball joints, and this was without even 'wheeling the truck. Once I started 'wheeling it, I figured out real quick that a D44 and 44's, is a bad combo.

If you're looking at 39.5's, I'd say you'll likely be in nearly the same boat, for balljoint life. Stronger knuckles are all well-n-good, but there's not much you can do about ball joints. :( 42's, IMHO, is too much for a D44 front end, regardless of what you do with the axles and joints--39.5's, I'd be leery of personally. 38's and under, I'd be more comfy with. I guess it depends on how much you drive it, and how comfy you are with changing ball joints.

You beat me to it Scott. I agree 38.5's are max on a D44 it's not the alloy shaft / joint. The ball joints / knuckles are the weak link.

.......til someone starts building beefy versions of those too. :p

Originally posted by FULLSIZE
.......til someone starts building beefy versions of those too. :p


Oh but they do! Its called a Dana 60.:p :beer:

you can only beef it so far before it would have been cheaper to run a 60.

Maybe cheaper but not lighter.:rolleyes:

and dont forget ground clearance:p

I think it depends on your driving style I can't believe guys at the comps like H8 with 38's don't blow up balljoints, bend axles etc. but I would think on a lightish vehicle if you drive like a normal rock crawler you would be OK with 39.5's. Lance ran the 39.5 boggers on his cruiser for a long time maybe he can coment on his balljoint life. If I remember from my webwheelin experience he had a pinion nut come loose and broke at least one steering knuckle and balljoint but that was from an axle shaft failure.

Jerod, I would get CTM's, alloys, for the front. But I would be more worried about that rear D44 than the front one with 39.5" TSL's. Even with a 6cyl, low gearing and weight on that housing/ring&pinion doesn't sound too good. Especially with a lockright, snappy snappy time. I would run the 39.5's, but be building a SF rear 6 lug 35 spl Dana 60 to match your pattern so when the time comes????:beer:

Originally posted by FULLSIZE
.......til someone starts building beefy versions of those too. :p

Maybe a king pin open knuckle 44? I doubt they would anything to brag about. The pins would be stonger then the ball joints, but I think the knuckle is a little thiner.

Originally posted by emsoffroad


Maybe a king pin open knuckle 44? I doubt they would anything to brag about. The pins would be stonger then the ball joints, but I think the knuckle is a little thiner. Open Knuckle King Pins came with the smaller U-joint. I've never tried but I'm perrty sure you would not have room for the larger Dana 44 u-joint. Dana does list two different replacement part numbers for the king pins.

someone will come up with a kingpin style knuckle and C one of these days. then will come the custom fab knuckles....................;)

Originally posted by Mr.N
Open Knuckle King Pins came with the smaller U-joint. I've never tried but I'm perrty sure you would not have room for the larger Dana 44 u-joint. Dana does list two different replacement part numbers for the king pins.

Large u-joint axles fit just fine. You can even swap to disc brakes the same as a EB 30, TTB spindles pre 92, chevy backing plates, and ford rotors.

I personally don't see any point......by the time you buy the alloys, ctm's, and build up the balljoints/buy replacements/slap on the f-250's listed above you would be MUCH better off buying a set of 60's, ctm the front and shave 'em.

just remember, if you are wanting to run 39's now, you'll want bigger later.

60's are much cheaper in teh long run/big picture

Originally posted by mkbruin
I personally don't see any point......by the time you buy the alloys, ctm's, and build up the balljoints/buy replacements/slap on the f-250's listed above you would be MUCH better off buying a set of 60's, ctm the front and shave 'em.
just remember, if you are wanting to run 39's now, you'll want bigger later.
60's are much cheaper in teh long run/big picture

I can see your point. But for folks that are looking to skip the 60 & jump right to Rock's the CTM/alloy combo will buy a little time (hopefully). Besides, I should be able to recover a good chunk of cost on the beefier D44's. The big problem isn't the axles, it's the tires!!! Each time I jump up a size, I say "that's it!", and then a bigger set of tires becomes available locally. I'm hoping the D44/39.5 Bogger combo will at least last until the fall. We'll see!!! Glad to follow this thread tho...

Why mess with F-250 PITA to find knuckles? There is no strength gain, only flat tops. And they won't work for anthing except a Ford, unless you change over to 5 bolt spindles, and the ford stub axle. You still have not changed the size of the ball joints.

so whats the biggest tire you can run with a 44 and alloy shafts/CTM'S(forgot with all the other crap we posted on here)?:p

Again, i say 39's are the max. But safely, w/o any breakage 37"

It is true that after all the upgrades, it is cheaper to have bought a d60 from a bone yard. A f350 HP axle with everything in it, is only about 700-800 dollars. While alloy shafts, ctm u-joints and 8 lug outers will run about 600-700. Then you are still weaker than a d60. :shaking:

Find a Ford dana 60 for $700 or $800 and I'm your best friend man;) the chevy 60s go for around $1000 and the Fords usually a little more like $1200. The only real argument I see to stay with a 44 and get cromo axles and CTMs is the availability of parts. Dana 44 stuff is everywhere and it's cheap. Dana 60 parts seem to be like gold:rolleyes: Maybe if people start building more 44s the price on 60s will come down.....ya right:flipoff2:

All I can say is that I know they will handle 38.50x14.50 SX's, behind a lively 300 hp V8.
I am pretty rough on my drive train, amd I have no steering stops, so upon close inspection of the joints you can see plenty of contact wear at the trunion,...still they handle the abuse without a whimper.
By the way Ill take one of those $800 complete hp D60's that are supposedly circulating out there. I find them for more like 1200 in piss poor shape and 30 spline shafts. The cheapest I can put one together, with a locker, high steer and and upgraded shafts is about $3000. Thats with good deals and me doing all of the work.

In any case, like I said I can personaly atest to the D44 and CTMs handeling 38.50x14.50, with reckless abandon in your rdiving style.

Originally posted by desertCJ
Find a Ford dana 60 for $700 or $800 and I'm your best friend man;) the chevy 60s go for around $1000 and the Fords usually a little more like $1200.

uhhhh have you actually BEEN to a boneyard, or do you just read the classifieds? around here ford 60 fronts go for like 500 complete. a friend of mine got a HP 60 front plus 70 rear out of a 79 F350 for $500- both with 4.10s and low miles. and they were pre-pulled, sittin on the ground.

and again and again......I gotta agree with H8 by the time I find a decent D60 around here it is going to push well over $3000 (gears locker brakes kingpins etc.) I currently have $1225 in my 44 4.88 gears locked with CTM's Moser short shaft and Warn Long Shaft all new brakes and balljoints. So show me the $500 D60 and I will show you how it is STILL gonna cost more than what I have in my 44.


Now back to topic. Once I get done (next week HOPEFULLY) I'll let ya know how CTM's and moly shafts hold up to 39.5's.:flipoff2:

O and I already have a complete set of spare balljoints ready to go in:rolleyes:

Originally posted by Poopsie Waffleface


uhhhh have you actually BEEN to a boneyard, or do you just read the classifieds? around here ford 60 fronts go for like 500 complete. a friend of mine got a HP 60 front plus 70 rear out of a 79 F350 for $500- both with 4.10s and low miles. and they were pre-pulled, sittin on the ground.

You know what I REALLY don't belive you because you can go buy those two axles for $500 then sell the front on here for $800+ and THEN have a spare rear axle so if you were tellin the truth you would do that so NOW where's me a $800 D60 HP front with 4.10... ohh i'll pay shipping


Racinhound.... I can't wait to find out how they hold up cuz in about a month or so that's what i'll have.

Run Dog ran 38" on (4) wheel steering at CAL ROCS and didn't break anything so they are pretty durn stout.

guy in my 4wd club here bought a chev front 60 for $500 complete. thing is thats rare. wrecker here found me one for $1100 with no brakes and I think thats more the norm.
gonna build the 70 and see what breaks. anyone know the limit of a newer unit bearing stub for a dana60?

Originally posted by Poopsie Waffleface


uhhhh have you actually BEEN to a boneyard, or do you just read the classifieds? around here ford 60 fronts go for like 500 complete. a friend of mine got a HP 60 front plus 70 rear out of a 79 F350 for $500- both with 4.10s and low miles. and they were pre-pulled, sittin on the ground.

If you can put your actions where your mouth is, I could really use one of those D60 with 4:10 gears, Ill pay the shipping and a liitle extra for your time. I need to get rid of the D50 TTB axle on my F250. The alighnment probs and toed in tires are driving me nuts and costing me much tread life.
Hell if your tripping over em, Ill buy two of them.
Seriously, help a brutha living in the land of D60'sareasgoodasgoldville.
PM me if you want.

Did I mention that Im sorry if I have ever said anything that may have inadvertently pissed you off, before I knew you had a line on D60's.:D

Damn I just cant suck up,..even if it means a $500 driver side drop Ford D60,..... just come through or you are nothing but talk.:flipoff2:

Ya, actually I have been to a few wrecking yards:rolleyes: and in California you are pretty damn lucky if you find a complete dana 60 sitting there;) Hell in some places 44s are sorta scarce....but fairly easy to come by. Now things may be different in Masachusettes but before you go spouting your mouth off you better have something to back it up:mad2:

Ill check the yard tomorrow. It was last month when i found the fresh 1ton dana 60 on the ground. It was complete. If they have it still, ill tell you. Geez fellas, who in thier right mind would pay over a grand for a stock axle. I got bolth my axles for 300.

Originally posted by SMC
Ill check the yard tomorrow. It was last month when i found the fresh 1ton dana 60 on the ground. It was complete. If they have it still, ill tell you. Geez fellas, who in thier right mind would pay over a grand for a stock axle. I got bolth my axles for 300.


If you are talking about the axles in your sig, I could pic them up for $300 also. Rear D60 are a dime a dozen, I can regularly find complete D44 fronts with springs and steering linkage for $125. 14 Bolts are about $150-$200.
But we arent talking about those axles. We are talking about a driver side drop HP D60 complete, for $500.
"Show me da axles!!"

I've talked with "most" of the junkyards in New Mexico, Southern Colorado, Eastern Arizona, and West Texas. Next I'll try Northern Mexico. I have found 1 (one) front D60; it's from a Chevy, and the price is $1800. Daniel has a lot of CUCV 60's in Oklahoma, and the best price I've seen so far (obviously) but I'm really looking for a Dodge axle. If people have got HP Ford 60's falling out their ass for $500 in their neighborhood, then the Dodge axles must be stacked up like cordwood and free to whoever wants to haul them off. :flipoff2: Tell us where they are! Could make a mint reselling them here. Or, let's have an end to the "60's are plentiful and cheap" BS.

found one in arizona last year for 450$, but had to pay 250$ to ship it here to tennessee. i'm tearing it apart right now and its in great shape, hell it even still has the factory paint on most of it from the knuckles in. took me 6 months to find one at that price, but it was worth the wait. one local guy found a 79 f350 complete for 300$ not too long ago and he would even take 1000$ for the thing, something about the axles were going under his 80' something ranger. patience will pay off in the end!:D :Danother friend in bama lives a few miles from a military surplus with rows of chevy 60, but the owner wants 1200$ for each one. later.

Axle is long gone. Purchaced by a local 4x4 shop about two weeks ago. I was told thier might be one more at another yard downtown for $650. Ill look into that also.

uhhhh have you actually BEEN to a boneyard, or do you just read the classifieds? around here ford 60 fronts go for like 500 complete. a friend of mine got a HP 60 front plus 70 rear out of a 79 F350 for $500- both with 4.10s and low miles. and they were pre-pulled, sittin on the ground.

Did 79 F350's have D70 rears? I thought they had 60's.:confused:

By the way a local axle builder travels the East Coast 1-2 times a year for days picking up axles. These all come from regular contacts who "treat him right" (boneyards, individuals, etc) He told me that he has payed as high as $800 for a '79 Ford HP60. This is coming from someone who's in the business, so if you can get $500 HP60's on the East Coast why aren't you dealing them:confused:

Good thread.

So.....with my Dana 44 and 38x12.50 TSL's, I can expect it to live if I go with alloy shafts and CTM's...

We don't have near the hardcore trails over here in FL, but we do a lot of mud bogging and sand running...I have broken 3 short side front axles....

How about those ball joints? Are the stockers really up to living with 38"s? I often wonder because my swampers :bounce: a lot on the pavement....

I have teh same problem here with a front D60...they just aren't around in junkyards. Neither are Dana 44's, which is why I have got to keep this thing from breaking all the time!!!:eek:

Originally posted by reddwarf
Neither are Dana 44's, which is why I have got to keep this thing from breaking all the time!!!:eek:

What 44 are you looking for? Here in Tampa area I find Waggy's, Dodge, Chevy, and an occasional Ford 44 w/o a problem. All these are at U-Pull it yards. I don't need them but I see them all the time, it's a guarantee to find at least 2 waggy's and a Dodge per visit. You're just not looking in the right places IMO.

I had to nut up and buy my HP60 from an axle builder because 6 months of searching FL/SC didn't find me squat either.

My roommate finds axle deals a lot. He bought himself a d44HD front and a corp 14 rear for $300. Same guy that sold him that has a d60f and d70r f/s for $1k. Came out of a newer Ford F350.

While d60 fronts may be hard to come by out here for cheap they are still highly findable. Hell I could probably go up into Northern Maine and find you fellas a ton of them just sitting in some farmers yard rusting away. Probably get the whole vehicle for $500.

Sometimes the rust we have out here is a good thing.

I got a really good deal on my front 60 - $550. But - that is a great deal. Around here - fords are about $700 w/ chevy's or dodge's going for $900, typically.

Originally posted by gnrrpreacher


While d60 fronts may be hard to come by out here for cheap they are still highly findable. Hell I could probably go up into Northern Maine and find you fellas a ton of them just sitting in some farmers yard rusting away. Probably get the whole vehicle for $500.




thats the problem, they are just lieing there rusting away. your looking at a complete rebuild to make it worth while. and your going to end up dumping a crap load of cash in to get it runable.


I am just going to look for a F-350, swap axles in the front and resell the sucker. :)


then 14 bolt the rear from pick and pull.

I'm bringing it back!

So, how about 39.5 boggers on a full width j-20 dana 44, with the big tubes, and eight lug, with ctm's and alloys?

On my 3600lb rig, I was able to run 39.5 Boggers. I ran it for quite a while like that. I went through a set of ball joints per year.

I would say it's safe to say that you can run 38.5 SX's on a 4200lb or less rig with Warns and CTMs and be able to drive it like you stole it without having any problems with axles or shafts. You will need to replace ball joints every year or two, but whoop-de-doo.

I would NOT run 42s on a D44. Get a 60 if you must run that large of a tire.

Originally posted by emsoffroad
Large u-joint axles fit just fine. You can even swap to disc brakes the same as a EB 30, TTB spindles pre 92, chevy backing plates, and ford rotors. Are you sure? Have you done it and ran them?
I don't have a King Pin Dana 44 right now, but have quite a few pictures and it looks the there is not room!

On the subject of max tire size on a Dana 44 I think I will go with Lance on this...I see Dana 44 balljoints fail and the always nerve wracking departure of the wheel happens for two reasons. Either the axle joint/shafts fail and "walk around" and expand tell they hit causing failure or.......in the case of my rig in the past........too much weight and a hard impact tears the wheels off quite effectivly. *5200lbs btw* with 38Sx's. So given quality shafts and CTM's I imagine weight is the deciding factor.

For the folks razzzing the fella about Dana 60 fronts cheap I will add my two cents worth. In the last 5 years I have owned and sold close to 20 Dana 60 front axles. A partial list of the more thrifty buys are as follows.
77Dodge 1 Ton Running, Dana 60 Front, Dana 60HD rear $600
79 F-250 60 Front, 60 rear both trak lok equipped,8ft meyers plow running, $250 *seriously rusty*
84 Chevy m1008 Dana 60 front,14 bolt rear with detroit and 4.56gears, non runner and cab crushed. Traded a tail gate from a M-715 for it *value $300*
1987 Dana 60 front with 5.14's out of a show truck $600 outta newspaper *had 3500miles on it*
and countless more F-250's with front 60's for never more than $1000 for the complete truck. Often replacing front 60 with a Dana 44 and reselling for same money as purchased.

A few years back when this BB was in it's infancy I had a deal with Ant and Lance and a few others to haul a load of Dana 60's to Ca. in exchange for sum rust free sheetmetal. Unfourtnatly my wife becomming seriously ill, a fire and a shit load of cruddy luck all in a few weeks totally screwed all that..much to my displeasure and theirs. But point I am making is those cheap front 60's do excist if ya look for em hard in the right locations. And as a side note a Ford Front 60 is worth $1200 here and the Dodge and Chevy fronts will bring a grand. Salavage yards are NOT where you buy them. The old farmer that needs to get rid of his rusted out pickup is where you find the deals. Truck pullers shedding spare parts, GSA auctions, scrap buyers * dudes with roll backs that pick up farm scrap have supplied me with 5-6 60's from old trucks they are GIVEN for the trouble of removing them*
I have a standing deal with them I will pay $300 for any front 60 truck, thats about $250 more than scrap price ;-P I don't sell them anymore as I don't have the time/ambition but I own 3 yet NONE are for sale...two are going into projects *trail rig and Surburban tow rig* and a HP Ford for the rear of my tube chassie lawn mower I plan to build next winter *hey a new john Deer is $8k, I can build a tube chassie 250HP 60inch deck, 4 wheel steer, comfy ta sit in and mow quickly creation for half that* All 3 of those 60's represent an investment of less than $500 So have heart people the good deals can still be found.

NoRM

Its often a matter of bein in the right place at the right time. I got my RC 60 for $158.02, out the door at PNP. This was the day before half price weekend. I felt lucky enough gettin it for that price, didnt wanna push my luck and wait a day for $80.

It seems to me that runnin a skinnier tire, and reducing scrub radius would help with the D44 balljoint issue. But 38s are prolly the most id run on one.

Yeah, I got 38x12.50 on 4.25" back space rims.

I guess the joints are just really old. Only way to find out is press in new ones I s'pose

Thanks lance, I think that I would rather go for the 38.5 sx's than fight the busted front end blues again.

i like the price i paid for my high pinion ford 75 44. $60. That gives me 600-800 bucks i saved versus a 60 to build one for MUCH cheaper to run on 37-40 tires. If you are reasonable breakage will not be a problem. 60s are nice, but ford HP 44s ain't minced meat. It all depends on your budget and driving style.

Run the 39.5s and if it breaks it breaks. let us know how it works with that large of a tire. I'm sure I will be going up from 37s when mine wear out.

Thanks!

Run the 39.5s and if it breaks it breaks. let us know how it works with that large of a tire. I'm sure I will be going up from 37s when mine wear out.


Really? :rolleyes:

Really? :rolleyes:...and he bumped am 8 year old thread just to post that:shaking:

...and he bumped am 8 year old thread just to post that:shaking:


no shit. :confused: