Okay settle in because I have a short story and a few questions...

I'm 19 years old and I have dreamed of owning and driving a 4x4 since I was 4 years old. I was converted into a Chevy guy when I was 10. I have read all the magazines and am ready to buy a rig. I know my limitations and at this time, I cannot afford to feed a gas hungry V8. I am a fulltime student trying to pay for school. I have a $400 a paycheck per 2 week payperiod. I'm currently driving a 1992 Murcury Sable wagon...a real chick magnet....and a real POS. I have no welding capabilities at this point so everything has to be bolt on.

I want a truck to 'wheel on dirt, trails, and mild to moderate mud. I really am into the mud aspect, but I'm not sure how to build a small rig that can keep up with 350, V8, 7 inch lift, 38-40 inch tire, fullsize monsters...
My questions are...

1) Is a Chevrolet S-10 wheelable in stock form???

2) Are there ways to cheaply modify it
slightly to improve performance? (Don't mention cranking torsion bars...I don't want to F**k up my truck royally)

3) Will the V6 get as good of gas mileage as my 3.8 liter Murcury Sable?

4) Are there lift kits out there for these things???

5) How big of tires can I squeeze into it stock/modified

6) Will a new exhaust Really help???

7) Is there anyway I can at least keep up with full sized rigs? I don't expect to outperform them, but I don't want to be in their dust either.

8) Will a smaller, but more aggressive tire tread and a locker in the rear compensate even slightly for the lack of tire size?

9) How hard is it to put a V8 into an S-10?

I'll keep thinking of questions and thanks in advance to all you S-10 owners and experts.

-WFH-

Here is a Thread About the Buildup of my 91.

Pickin up a Sb 350 next month to start to tinker with for it also .

http://www.zr2usa.com/mboard/index.php?showtopic=11588

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d120/projunkracing/100_0801.jpg

I had a 94 S-10 Blazer so ....

1) Is a Chevrolet S-10 wheelable in stock form???
Yes, but the little IFS is not gonna flex too well and isn't what I'd call bulletproof. Course down the road a SAS can be done so .. for your purposes it might be fine.

2) Are there ways to cheaply modify it slightly to improve performance? (Don't mention cranking torsion bars...I don't want to F**k up my truck royally).
You can do anything on the cheap but I'd stay away form a body lift over 2" and avoid the IFS lifts that only replace the upper A arm. They can be rough on ball joints and usually require you to crank the t-bars.

3) Will the V6 get as good of gas mileage as my 3.8 liter Murcury Sable? Unless your sable is a POS ... probably not. Especially if you add bigger tires and such.

4) Are there lift kits out there for these things??? YES ... many choices.

5) How big of tires can I squeeze into it stock/modified
That all depends on wheel backspacing. Mine came stock with p23575r15s. after putting on a 2.5" suspension lift I tried putting on some 31s, but they rubbed alot off road ... but that was due to the wheelbackspacing being terrible. Afterwards, I slapped on some 32s with some mild fender beating. Oh and I'd suggest getting a 2 door because there is a lot more room to cut out of the rear fenders than the 4 door. the more you can trim fenders, the less you need to lift it.

6) Will a new exhaust Really help???
It can, especially if you add together better cooling, chip, thermostat, etc.

7) Is there anyway I can at least keep up with full sized rigs? I don't expect to outperform them, but I don't want to be in their dust either.
Your rig may be lighter and the 4.3 is not a bad engine, but an S-10 on 33s or so will not be mud bogging with the big boys. On the trail the IFS will hamper you, so unless you have at least 1 locker you may hold up more advanced groups.

8) Will a smaller, but more aggressive tire tread and a locker in the rear compensate even slightly for the lack of tire size?
A locker and mud grips can do wonders.

9) How hard is it to put a V8 into an S-10?
Well .... it's easy for some and overwhelming for others. Lots of people make these swaps so it's not the most difficult by any measure.

Very buildable....
http://www.trailseeker.com/gallery/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=9870&g2_serialNumber=1

Very buildable....
http://www.trailseeker.com/gallery/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=9870&g2_serialNumber=1

Gawd I love Phil's S10 It is what I wish my Blazer could be lol .

My first rig was an 86 S10 Blazer(well, GMC equiv).

1/5) I wheeled it harder than I should have. The only mod I really did was a 2" body lift to guarantee the 31s wouldn't rub... they still did:shaking: Front and rear bumpers were lifted so they looked stock. No lockers in mine.

Keep in mind, it is IFS. Like most IFS, it will have those IFS type issues offroad.

2/3) What type of performance? I tossed a "tubro" muffler on mine... not sure it helped hp, but it was loud(just what a youngen cares about :flipoff2: )

I had the 2.8L engine. When I wasn't on the gas, I was getting around 15-16 on the freeway. Keep in mind, they have the aerodynamics of a brick:laughing: In my experience, the 2.8L is a 115k mile timebomb :P I know of three that all blew up around that milage... mine included. One thing I did do when it popped was swapped in a 2.8L longblock from a Camaro as well as port and polished everything:eek: It was peppy as fawk after that. Not sure if it was the port and polishing OR the Camaro cam:confused: Couldn't tell you on gas milage for the 4.3L V6.

4) Yup... lift kits are available. But like most IFS kits, expect to pay an arm and a leg. From what I recall $1200 for just the kit. I believe non of the kits were bolt on. If I were considering it, I'd go solid axle leaf sprung before wasting money on an IFS kit. There is also 2 and 3 inch body lift kits. I don't mind them when they are disguised... but using one without moving the bumpers up looks like shit to me:rolleyes:

5) I've seen some S10s with 31s with no mods and no rubbing... but I sure the fawk couldn't duplicate that. With enough cutting and backspacing, any tire could fit:rolleyes:

7) What do you mean keep up with? Onroad, they got you on power. 120hp out of 2.8L plus a shit load of weight means you won't pull faster than the 250hp+ people... fact of life. Offroad, I think the S10 being slightly narrower and shorter makes it more nimble. Wheeling isn't about V8s... it is the nut behind the wheel. Look at toyotas with I4s in them:flipoff2:

8) For tires, it is about matching the tires to the terrain. Lockers always help. As I said above, it is all about the nut behind the wheel. If you learn how to wheel, you can keep up with all the "big" boys... sometimes without even damaging your truck:laughing:

9)On the V8, not really bolt in. From the books/articles I've read, firewall mods and other fab related stuff was required.

I don't care for the interiors of the 85 and earlier S10s. Ugly as fawk. 88 and later had the tire tread body trim which I don't care for. I'd probably buy another 86 or 87 if I was in the market for an SUV:grinpimp:

For wheeling, the best advice I can give you is take the rig out stock and find out what causes you to fail and upgrade. It will make you a MUCH better wheeler in the long run.

I'll throw in my thaughts, i had 3 jeeps before the fucking s10 "bug" attacked me. My 1st s10 was a '91 4.3/5 speed extended cab pickup. Round 1 of that rig was pulling off the box, welding the rear axle, and putting on some free 33's, it worked allright but got hung up on everything. Then I cranked the t-bars and did a spring over in the rear, slapped on some 35's, the 35's took out the blower motor they rubbed like crazy but the thing went great in the woods till it ate a couple cv shafts and the front diff. Instead of messing with swapping out a front diff I just put a straight axle out of a wranlger under it and a 9" in the rear with 4.56's and lockers, it adventually got 36's and it was great in the woods with not a lot of cash into it. It got out of control and turned into a buggy.

I got sick of the buggy and now i'm building an '89 4.3/auto 2 door blazer, it should be cleaner/ better work. It's getting my 36" tls's on bead lock, d44/9" w/ 4.56's, 4 link front, rear springs inborded and spring over in the rear, boxed frame in spots, full cage, 4 race buckets, body protection, the list goes on and on. It will sit around 6' tall on 36's.

Now to your questions

1)Yes, they are fun, pick one up for $100-$200 that you don't care about, keep your car for a DD
2) Yes, get some free 31's or 33's, cut the fenders/ sledge hammer the front cab corrner, weld the rear axle, spring over the rear and beat the piss out of it
3) I have no clue what my pickup got because the odometer stopped at 200k, it sipped gas though, usually 5 gallons for a day of wheeling

4)Yes but they are super big $$, get a welder and straight axle it, it will be cheaper if you are resourceful
5) I ran 35's with cranked t-bar, cut fenders, sledgehammered cab corrners, if you were good with sheetmeal you could redo the front cab corrners/ body mount, make new inner wheel wells/ battery mount/ mounts for the other crap on the inner fenders you could probably clear 35's in the front, a 4 door blazer might be hard to mount stuff but the 2 doors have decent sized wheel wells or just fab new ones. The new blazer is going to be about 10-12" taller then stock going from 26"ish stock tires to 36's, so i guess that's 5" of tire height and 5" of "lift", it will have new wheel wells, about 2" extra of wheel base in the back, 3" extra wheel base in the front.
6) The mufflers usually fall off after the cat and arn't that loud, my buggy has a home made y pipe and glass pack. No idea on added power, spend your $$ on a couple cases of beer to trade for a welded rear axle and some case o beer tires.

7) see next reply

8) Big time on trails, not as much but some in the mud. 33's sprung over in the rear with a welded rear axle will get you pretty far. S10's have a flat belly and lots of diff clearance compared to most full sizes.

9) No idea, never done it but a tbi 4.3 and tbi 350 have the same wiring harnesses

My advice is keep your car for a DD, if you really want to wheel hard don't plan on driving your trail rig every day, it will be no fun. Also learn how to weld, pick up a cheap welder, grinder, and some basic fab tools, s10's take a lot of fab work to make into good trail rigs.

what aboot a suzuki samurai there great on gas, fun to wheel with a decent set of tires, super super cheap, and there is a decent aftermarket. Pluss you can build one that will be darn good on the trail and still painless to drive to work/school/anywhere!

just my 2cents,

Dustin D. Pares

Very buildable....

They are buildable but ditch the ifs.

http://bb.bc4x4.com/showthread.php?t=98928 my build up.

Check out spidr's truck now, that's a build to the extreme

Hey, im in the same boat as you. $400/2week budget - $500 s-10 blazer 2dr. - and i just hacked the crap out of it w/ a sawzall. I'm going to put a Jeg's 8pt roll cage in it and do an SAS with it at school when we go over suspension and steering. Good times to ensue.

Thanks for all the info all, but what If I don't know how to weld????? My dad does, but he has no time for that kind of stuff... Thanks most of all to Lil John. The last part of your message made the most sense I'll wheel it stock and see what needs to be done. It all really comes down to how good ofdriving techniques the operator has doen't it???

Does anyone know of a step by step list written down for a SAS project like this? The links you gave me are great, but I get a little lost in fabricating and especially when it comes to modding the steering. I'm definately NOT a mechanic nor will I ever be one so I need a little time to study and figure things out.

Wheeling is absolutely about the guy behind the wheel... although having a great spotter(or being very observant as a driver) help just as much.

On the not being able to weld for doing an SAS, there are potentially ways around that. I think it was a Toyota that I heard about the guy had the front hanger bracket welded on as well as the shackle mounts at a welding shop at that from there it was pretty much cutting stuff off and bolting on.

I wouldn't be suprised if something like that could be done with an S10.

There are also the mobile welders but I would assume they'd be fairly expensive.

Can't really help on the step by step or parts list but in general:
- cut all IFS stuff off
- weld front spring hanger on
- weld shackle hangers on
- weld in upper shock mounts
- bolt springs on
- bolt in axle
- attach steering related stuff
- attach brake hoses

Yeah That is for sure What you gotta do . Mobile Welder's are pricey tho . I wound up buying my own welder, and torch to do this sas.

I just finished replacing a tranny/t-case and doing a tune up to a s-10 blazer, and it sucked, I would never own one of those, if you do buy one, get a 4.3 truck, and wait for the rest of the rig to fall apart around the engine, gotta love the GM pride huh......I wonder why toyota rules the market anymore??? (note sarcasm).

I will keep my old fullsize chevy which could get gas mileage if I tried, and my toyota gets 20 mpg on 33's with power to spare.

Yeah That is for sure What you gotta do . Mobile Welder's are pricey tho .

I was actually refering to the the guys who weld for a living that have "REAL" welders in the back of their trucks. ie lower case m. Not talking about the onboard welder Mobile Welder. The later does no good if you don't know how to weld:laughing:

If you can't weld pickup a cheap 110 mig and a bunch of scrap steel, have your dad spend 10 min. going over the basics, practice for 2 weeks, show your dad your welds, have him give you some pointers and keep practicing. Otherwise take a welding class at the local community college.

I don't know how much you know about wheeling/ building trucks but if you don't know much and your budies are the bolt on types find a local club or atleast some wheelers in the area that can help you build your truck right.

My biggest complaint with wheeling a stock s10 was the low belly that got hung up on everything. When we build an s10 on the cheap (I think we've built around 1/2 dozen by now) we do a spring over in the rear. Factory the springs are mounted under the axle, and when you do a spring over the springs are mounted on top of the axle. It gives you 4-5" of lift and the wedge look. It works well in the woods, you get your front end over something and the back axle just follows. For cost it will cost you a set of u-bolts ($40), spring perches ($20), new brake lines ($20), and $20 for a case of beer to have some one weld perches on for you. The stock shocks and drive shaft should still work. In the midwest the shock mount bolts usually break off when you go to take them off though.

Do you know what welding a rear axle or a locker is? Pretty much in stock form the tire with the least amount of traction gets all the power and the tire with traction doesn't get any. Welding the rear diff is a cheap locker, both tires always get the power. You pretty much weld your spiders to the side gears. Get your rear diff welded when you have the perches welded on for a spring over. I don't think any of our welded s10 rears have broken yet with between 31's and 35's on them. They can break but we've had decent luck with them on midwest trails/ mud.

Build your basic cheap s10 (spring over rear, welded rear, 31's or 33's, front and rear tow points), wheel it for a season. Pick up another for spare parts because you'll probably pop atleast 1 cv shaft, maybe a front diff, and if you beat on it hard enough something in the rear axle. By the time you've wheeled it for a season you'll probably have made buddies and done enough research to know what your doing.

My pickup was $150, my blazer was $200 and I drove both of them home, i've picked up parts rigs for free to $50 not running. That's the best part about s10's is they arn't worth crap, people want them gone, parts are a dime a dozen.

Couple of things others haven't mentioned.
The frame is fully boxed from the front to at least the tranny cross brace. Super strong.
Nothing hanges below the frame, better break over angles then a Jeep or other small rig with the t-case hanging below the frame.
The 4.3L V6 is roughly 190hp, and 230-250 torque, depends on year. A 305 only has 50 more of each.
A V8 will bolt up to the 4.3L V6 tranny.
JTR sells a book on how to drop a V8 into the S-Dime. As far as engine swaps go, its one of the easier ones to do.
Wheelbase is 100.5" (2dr) or 107" (4dr).
Biggest tire on the stock wheels and stock rig is 30".
2" lift (body or suspension) and you can fit 31", is it worth the cost?
6" lift and you can run 33". The IFs wont handle over 33".
The IFS is as strong as a Jeep Dana 30. Neither are worth beefing up.
Can you run witht he big dogs, sure. You have an advantage on trials. Shorter wheelbase, narrower rig. You dont need as much ground clearance as they do to get the same break over angles. I was keeping up with a fullszie dodge on 35", and I was in a stock rig with all-terrains.
Teh fullsizes will have you in hte deep mud though. However your rig is lighter and with wider tires you can float better.
That 4.3 will spin big tires with the right gears.
If you get the ZR2 it already comes with 31" tires and a stronger rear axle. A shortened 10 bolt with 8.5" r&p.

I average 19mpg. 70% highway, 30% around town.

In my honest opinion, the S10-Blazer is a great platform to build from. It has a decent engine, tranny, t-case from the factory. Same ones used in the fullsize rigs. Until you can swap axles, put on some agressive tires, lock the rear axle and go wheeling. Yes, they are pretty capable right out of the box compared to other stock 4x4 (Except the Rubicon of coarse).
Check out a site called S10-Extremists. Look around and you'll see plenty of S10-Blazers in action, and various stages of modifications.
http://www.s10extremist.org/