This deal fell in my lap suddenly and I have to act quick (by this weekend) if I'm gonna' snake it. Since I don't know squat about Ford axles, can someone please enlighten me as to whether or not I should get it.

It's a bare housing from a '79 Ford Bronco (EB). It's reverse cut (high pinion) and drivers side drop which is perfect for my TJ.

It's a bare housing only ... nothing outboard of the ears.

The guy only wants $50 for it and it's local so I can pick it up without much trouble.

Is this a good axle to swap in? Narrowing isn't a problem, but widening obviously is. I have no problem building up the outers since I can do it "my way."

I'll be doing all new bracketry with my long arms, so cutting/installing brackets "ain't no problem" either.

Thanx.

cmk

The guy only wants $50 for it and it's local so I can pick it up without much trouble

snag it...dont question it...just snsg it.....RE sells the complete control arm kits for the conversion.....if you dont want it buy it and I will buy it form you for my XJ...hehehehe

now that I think about it the sppring buckets sould be in teh right place too!... a friend put one under his xj and the springs line up

I say don't get it.

They only way to use this axle is to keep it as is and run the Ford coils, unless you want to re-tube it. Search on this supject and you'll find the info why not to use this.

Mine had a 1/4" center tube before I gave it up for scrap.

Also the EB ended in 77 and they never had a High Pinion. You have a full size bronco axle.

If it has the cast raius arm mounts I'd pass on it. The one to get came in early 78 or down f-150's and f-100's (maybe 78 broncos) with welded on mounts and 1/2 inch wall axle tubes.

Originally posted by TNT's ROCKTOY
If it has the cast raius arm mounts I'd pass on it. The one to get came in early 78 or down f-150's and f-100's (maybe 78 broncos) with welded on mounts and 1/2 inch wall axle tubes. Where are you getting this infomation? I understand different Ford plant's had different left over parts and used them to bleed into the following year (or years for the 9").
I have never seen a Ford HP 78 or 79 with out the full cast (read Junk axle) for the radius arms. Not flaming you it just seem to be a myth that people spread, just like the POR "bible" info on HP Ford axles for when High Pinion stuff stared. Just plane bad info if you ask me.

Again, unless you just want the center section or you can sell if for a profit I'd pass on it.

Thanx for the quick info guys, I appreciate it.

Mr. N ... I did come across some of your posts after searching some more and your points have me concerned. I'm gonna' be a stone's throw from this dude's shop this weekend so I'll swing by and check it out at the very least. Supposedly he has a few hp d44 fronts lying around ... maybe I'll get lucky and find a suitable one.

... my bad on the EB thing.

cm "goes to show how much I know about Fords" k

I did a bunch of reseach and junkyard hunting.

I have a '75 F-100 HP 44 that I just narrowed for my XJ with the 1/2" tubes that had the welded on mounts. The axle tubes are slightly smaller in diameter than the cast mount '78 HP44 I have in my shop.

One of my friends has a 78 bronco with welded mounts also.

Ford used HP44's since about 1970, most have drum brakes(mine did).

F250 HP44's use a different center section with a drivers side leaf sping mount and the larger diameter 1/2" wall tubes with the HD 8 stud spindles w/flat top knuckles...

In about 2 weeks or so, i'm getting a 78 bronco for $250, it had 4.10's in the pumpkins the HP44 up front and a 31 spline 9" rear. I know the dude that owns it very well, and i know for a fact that the front end has new hubs bearings and gears (maybe 500 miles on them) Also gettin everything else but the tranny, so i can make more than my money back, and then sell my XJ D44.

Would it be a dumb idea to make extended wristed radius arms for it, build a crossmember, flip the spring perches (they end up only about 3.5" too far apart) relocate the spring mounts on the XJ (i've got an XJ, but i see no reason it couldn't be done on a TJ) Leave them fullwidth, upgrade the master cylinder and go to town. (as far as the rear, i just need shock mounts, the spring perches line up perfectly.) I really like the wristed radius arm setup, it's simple and it looks like it works good.

after that, just truss the hell out of it to make up for the weaker tubes, or even sleeve & truss them.

This just seems to be a rather simple swap to me. after i build my crawler box, i'll only need one new driveshaft.

I'd go for it, or one of the other frontends he's got lying about.
As for the cast c-bushing mount housings, they work fine if you use radius arms. I've seen some folks build RE-style longarms, and use the radius arm mounting bracket section, and build their axle mounts off it (that make sense? Wish I had some pics).

Extended radius arms flex fine for my liking.

http://home.off-road.com/~bassettsbeast/images/Rubicon/April19-21_2002/103_0421/04210075.JPG

I dunno whether I'd wrist an extended arm. I'm toying with the idea of building some wristed arms, if regaining some breakover becomes an issue; so far it's not.

PS I just converted one of those welded in mounted 44's to straight tubes- it was about $200 with tube and machining. Not super hard, but I needed some DOM turned down on a lathe (thanks Rockstomper) to get the right interference fit

Cheers
Bob

Originally posted by TNT's ROCKTOY
I did a bunch of reseach and junkyard hunting.
One of my friends has a 78 bronco with welded mounts also.So the axle has four (two per side) wedges that are olny welded at the top of the wedge? If yes I bet someone swapped axle rather than it being stock from the factory. FInd the Dana BOM number and run it on Dana's site.

Originally posted by TNT's ROCKTOY
Ford used HP44's since about 1970, most have drum brakes(mine did).Actually your not close, but we don't need to go over this, just use the search.

Originally posted by TNT's ROCKTOY
F250 HP44's use a different center section with a drivers side leaf sping mount and the larger diameter 1/2" wall tubes with the HD 8 stud spindles w/flat top knuckles... Ford used 1/2" tube on the 73-75 axles also. And don't forget about the extenda caps, they had the same center section and leaf springs.

If you're gonna quote me quote all I had to say! :flipoff:

It should read like this... :flipoff2:

Originally posted by TNT's ROCKTOY

If it has the cast radius arm mounts I'd pass on it. The one to get came in early 78 or down f-150's and f-100's (maybe 78 broncos) with welded on mounts and 1/2 inch wall axle tubes.

Notice I said maybe 78 Broncos.... :flipoff2:
That maybe should apply to 78 F150's also... :rolleyes:

'77 and down to ? F150's and F100's should have the 1/2" wall smaller diameter tubes with the welded mounts.

Originally posted by Mr.N

Where are you getting this infomation? I understand different Ford plant's had different left over parts and used them to bleed into the following year (or years for the 9").
I have never seen a Ford HP 78 or 79 with out the full cast (read Junk axle) for the radius arms. Not flaming you it just seem to be a myth that people spread, just like the POR "bible" info on HP Ford axles for when High Pinion stuff stared. Just plane bad info if you ask me.

Again, unless you just want the center section or you can sell if for a profit I'd pass on it.

You bitch about about my info but you don't provide any yourself...

Like I said...

Originally posted by TNT's ROCKTOY

I did a bunch of reseach and junkyard hunting.

I have a '75 F-100 HP 44 that I just narrowed for my XJ with the 1/2" tubes that had the welded on mounts. The axle tubes are slightly smaller in diameter than the cast mount '78 HP44 I have in my shop.

One of my friends has a 78 bronco with welded mounts also.

Originally posted by Mr.N

So the axle has four (two per side) wedges that are olny welded at the top of the wedge? If yes I bet someone swapped axle rather than it being stock from the factory. FInd the Dana BOM number and run it on Dana's site.


Yes it uses the welded mounts. :p I haven't checked his BOM, It might be from a 77 or older F150 or it might be a left over that is the original axle. I don't know. :rasta:

Originally posted by TNT's ROCKTOY

Ford used HP44's since about 1970, most have drum brakes(mine did).


Originally posted by Mr.N

Actually your not close, but we don't need to go over this, just use the search.

I said about and wasn't including any early closed knuckle ones(if there is such a beast).
The earliest one I have seen was a 72 if I remember right.
Most do have drum brakes from what I have seen in 77 and down 1/2 tons. The 78-79 HP's I've seen all have discs.

Originally posted by TNT's ROCKTOY

F250 HP44's use a different center section with a drivers side leaf sping mount and the larger diameter 1/2" wall tubes with the HD 8 stud spindles w/flat top knuckles...

Originally posted by Mr.N

Ford used 1/2" tube on the 73-75 axles also. And don't forget about the extenda caps, they had the same center section and leaf springs.

Sorry I haven't had a chance to check out a HP44 out of a 77 or down F250.

Do they use the same large diameter 1/2" wall tubes and the same center section as a 78 to 79 F250's?

Like I said my 75 1/2 ton HP44 has 1/2 wall tubes but they are the smaller diameter ones.

I haven't seen any extended cab 4x4's at the yards yet either...

:flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Originally posted by TNT's ROCKTOY
Notice I said maybe 78 Broncos....
That maybe should apply to 78 F150's also... :rolleyes: I'm busting your balls becasue your "maybe" is wrong, except of stated reasons above.

Originally posted by TNT's ROCKTOY
'77 and down to ? F150's and F100's should have the 1/2" wall smaller diameter tubes with the welded mounts.The tubes 1/2" - 3/8" - 1/4" are what I've seen on HP 44's.

Originally posted by TNT's ROCKTOY
You bitch about about my info but you don't provide any yourself...If you look in your browser window, near the top right of this window your find a button called "Search", it's inbetween FAQ and HOME. It will open a window and you type in information that you want more or, try it you'll like. I found
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=39101&highlight=Dana+reverse+spiral
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=46353&highlight=Dana+reverse+spiral

Originally posted by TNT's ROCKTOY
I said about and wasn't including any early closed knuckle ones(if there is such a beast).
The earliest one I have seen was a 72 if I remember right.
Most do have drum brakes from what I have seen in 77 and down 1/2 tons. The 78-79 HP's I've seen all have discs....I've seen one person post they had a early closed knuckle, 69, on this board. I PM'ed them, e-mail them and try again. Could never get a responce. I don't believe they exist at all.

Originally posted by TNT's ROCKTOY
Sorry I haven't had a chance to check out a HP44 out of a 77 or down F250.
Do they use the same large diameter 1/2" wall tubes and the same center section as a 78 to 79 F250's? No such thing as a 76 or earlier HP in a F250. They all had closed knuckled and low pinion. I've only seen 77-79 extenda cabs, so I'm unsure about a 76 and earlier but I'm guessing they have the same axle as the F250.

Originally posted by TNT's ROCKTOY
Like I said my 75 1/2 ton HP44 has 1/2 wall tubes but they are the smaller diameter ones. Best Dana 44 axle to get it you ask me. 73-75 Ford is the king for a 44, just need disk brakes added and your set.

Originally posted by 1337j33px0r


Would it be a dumb idea to make extended wristed radius arms for it,



Not to preach using the Search button but if you search under the ford section for "wristed arms" you will reilize that their is no need for Extending a wristed arm or really NO Need for an extended arm... Wristed is THE only way to go.... MORE flex less money I just got done building mine and I have about $70 and 8 hours and i'm kinda slow on those thing so you could do it quicker and prob for less money depending but Wristed Arms provide MUCH more flex than Ever needed...

well, i don't really have a choice in the matter. in order to find an good solid mounting point on my jeep, i really have to extend them. plus, i want them to pivot at the point where my driveshaft exits the transfercase. it limits the amount that the driveshaft will have to slip during the full range of motion, and the larger arc will keep the stresses down on the mounts.

I've seen them flex, and i'm rather impressed, and it's a simple reliable setup, which will be cheap for me to implement, and it will work well.

The wristed radius arms is a simple, efficient design without a doubt,...but,... the radius arm connection at the axle tube, be it the Ford designed C bushing, or an aftermarket design has to handle a hell of a work load. The radius arms have to handle axle positioning(on 2 planes), axle rotation, and in a large part the weight of the vehicle. And the arms need to be able to move freely at the frame, throughout the suspension cycle. Just consider these loads when designing your arms and there atachments. The stock Ford I beams appear to be a pretty beefy design at 1st glance, but I can tell you from experience that they are not nearly beefy enought to handle the task in a hard driven rock crawler and, I have seen them fail like they were made of thin aluminum(especialy when used at the rear axle).
Your radius arms, just need to be extremely well thought out and fabricated.
Rock Heep is fabbing a sweet looking radius arm front suspension for his new Project Chinchilla rock buggy
(I think he actually calls it Project wolverine, but the rodent in his sig looks like chinchilla to me).
In any case, just my .02 from failures I have seen.

... lots of good info guys, but can't we all just get along? ... thought not ... LOL

I went down, checked out everything the dude has and I must say that the boneyards in Chi-town have got to be baren of any good Ford axles! This dude had probably 15 - 20 housings piled up next to his shop.

That 79 Bronco axle was junk. I agree with some of the other dudes here in that I wouldn't bother with it, not even for $50 ... not even if it was given to me. For swapping into a TJ, there are just way too many details to dick around with.

He did have several F250 HD hpD44's. I called dibs on one of them. I didn't catch what year it was from, but it definitely was high pinion, driver's side drop, with the leaf spring mount cast into the pumpkin. He said it did have the thicker tubes. They were buried under half a dozen other housings, so I didn't get a chance to measure for myself but I have no reason to doubt this dude. He was cool as heck.

For $100, I get the bare housing. I figure that ain't too bad of a deal seeing as how he did all the hard work (trouncing through the boneyards and bringing it back to his shop). All I have to do is run down there, stuff it in the back of my car, bring it back to the shop, and get to work.

Now, I just have to figure how much to cut it down. I figure I'll wait until I build up the outers so that I can get exact WMS to WMS measurements. He says it should build up to ~64". I'd like to get it down to the stock TJ's 60".

cmk

I´m finding that one nice thing about keeping it at the 64" range is that you have enough driver's side tube to play with.

If you narrow it down to 60" or so, you're looking at one of two options:
· either putting the pumpkin WAYYYY to the pass side (prob with custom shafts)
· having NO room on the driver's side for any sort of mounting. With the cast in perch, you're already facing a paucity (big word for monday morning, eh?) of tube on that side for mounting, if you're keeping stock Jeep susp. geometry.

Also, with a 64" wide front, you get some room to put wheel adapters on the back (for 5 on 5.5). I'll be at like 64" wide in front, and 63" in back with spacers on an XJ 44.

I am balls deep in my 44 project, and I'm SOOOOOO happy that I went with 64" wide. As it is, my sleep is already disturbed with anxiety about finishing (steering, drag link / trackbar options are super worrying) before June 10th (Mooooaaaab!). I tacked my LCA mounts on Saturday, and I'm maybe 1/2" away from the diff on the driver's side. At waggy width, I'd STILL be preheating, watching the 500º tempilstick markings on the cast portion. :)

Good luck,
Bob