Ok, so Timm's moved all of his stuff down south, which leaves me in a dilemma.

I have a talented fabricator, a great space to work on stuff, but I lack some major tools.

One of the biggest is a welder. Now, before you guys get all crazy on me, I have been loosely contemplating purchasing a wire-feed for about a year. Now, it looks like this is as good a time as any.

I won't be doing any high-volume mass-production stuff (after all I am just a lowly photographer), but I will want to learn how to use it for when I want to mess around on stuff of my own in the future. Who knows, this might just turn me into the nest Marbourg!!!! Hehe.

The other requirement would be that it would need to be powerful enough for Timm to do some of the major fabricating that is left on the 145. Fuel tank, random bracketry, fan shroud, etc...

He has his aluminum welder down south, so I won't worry about that and we plan on him doing all of the aluminum work down there.

So....he was suggesting a 220 Hobart that runs just under a grand. I don't know model #'s, but that might be enough of a price point and design requirement for you guys to make some suggestions.

Just was wondering what you guys thought I ought to be getting (and since it's so dang slow around here, it seemed like a random enough topic...)

Thanks,

Michael

Originally posted by Serious One

......................I have been loosely contemplating purchasing a wire-feed for about a year. Now, it looks like this is as good a time as any.

I won't be doing any high-volume mass-production stuff (after all I am just a lowly photographer), but I will want to learn how to use it for when I want to mess around on stuff of my own in the future.




Michael

First off, why a wire feed (MIG) welder?? Why not a regular stick welder?

The reason I ask, is 'cause unless you're going to do production welding, you've got a lot of money invested in equipment that will sit idle.

With a stick welder, all you need is a power supply and some leads. With a MIG welder, in addition to the PS you will also have to buy a wire feeder, gun for the wire and if your not using flux core wire you'll also need a flow regulator and gas bottles. All this adds up to a couple of hundred dollars!!!!!!

I use a stick welder at home, it's a PowCon which was purchased by Miller a number of years ago and then phased out, just another way to eliminate the competition.

Most of the welders we use at work are either Miller or Lincoln, but there are a lot of good welders out there. Hobart is an old company and makes a good product.

One other reason I like a stick welder, is that you can get that rod in a lot tighter places than the MIG gun.


I'm sure others will offer their opinion but this setup works well for me..................
:) :)

Marty

Hobart makes some nice welders that are small. I have used several. I would go with a gas metal arc welder (A.K.A. Mig welder). They are much easier to use and learn on. For what you are doing you will not need an ARC welder (stronger welds). I would seriously check out the local weld shop. I would buy one used. Many people buy them and don't use them as much as they had originally thought. There are 3 in Durango, so I guess that there are probably many stores down there with more than three sitting in there displays. I would not use flux core wire. I would stick with gas. The only downfall that the Hobart has in my experience is that it is finicky to get set right for each application. If you weld 1/8" all the time and spend a bit of time dailing it in, you will have no problem. It is a pain when swithching form 1/8 to 1/4 to 3/8 etc. Also for outdoor use I would not reccommend this. Usually the wind will blow all of the gas out and you will get a bubbles in your bead. The bigger welders (more $) seem to do better outside. I suggest a used digital read out if you can find one. Plug in the metal thickness and then you are good to go. Oh yeah for a newbie, I would reccommend spending a good chunk of money on a helmet that is full face. Also I suggest a self dimming lense or a flip lens. When you are just learning you need to worry about as few things as possible. Being a photo guy your eyes are worth it. Also my favorite gloves are made by Airgas. They even make them up to elbow length. They make nice chainsaw gloves as well.

Way

I missed the deal on the Miller 210 with free spool gun for 1100 (shop said I could still get it and then backed down . . . bastards)

waiting for another deal to come up. Til then I mooch off the OLD hobart my uncle has (dawn of mig time) still works good. still can't figure out alum with teh spool gun but thats hard.

Miller makes hobart with a couple inferior parts but otherwise the same thing for a little less money.

Marty must have skill cause Mig is easier than stick for me.

Go Blue (miller or hobart) or go red (lincoln)

Ron

i loooooove my hobart 175, which is basically identical to the miller model except with a few plastic parts instead of metal. it will weld 1/4" all day long and puts down a great bead. i got it on sale at welders direct online i believe- something like welder, cart, and free shipping for $600??? although i cant be sure.

and GET THE BEST HELMET YOU CANNOT AFFORD, i have a saweet auto dimming one and i love it. the $130 for it was more than worth it. plus its got these cool red and yellow flames painted on it :D

Originally posted by evilfij

Marty must have skill cause Mig is easier than stick for me.

Ron

Can't weld for shit with a Mig.............stick is a lot easier for me.

Too many moving parts in a Mig setup, more things to go wrong/break. KISS (keep it simple, stupid)!!!!!!!!!

Marty

Guys,

good food for thought here.

I think the reason I've been talked into (almost) geting a wire-feed is because I am a TRUE welding newbie. I have only watched through the goggles about 5 times at how a bead is laid down and puddles and stuff, so you really know where I'm coming from.

I think also the main reason for wire feed is so that Timm can use it immidiately. We'll be welding some thinner material with the fan shroud, so wire feed is better right???

Like I said, I'm a total fawkin' newbie (but it's good to admit it at least right?).

I didn't know that Miller made Hobart. That's cool because I thought I was coppin' out even thinking of Hobart. I know quite a bit about Lincoln as a company (and I respect the Hell out of how they run it), and I also know that they are as reputable a manufacturer as you can get. I also know that Miller's are really nice, the last shop I was in had 4 of them and they were sweet (looking at least, WTF do I know right????).

I don't mind the bottles, etc...like I said, I was ready to make an investment but this really prompts me to do it.

So, basically you guys don't think Hobart is all that bad, and for $1000 or so I can get a good all-around welder? (not including flame-mask, etc...)

Thanks!

Michael

PS I'll be sure to post a pic of my first welds! Probably be something important like a prototype 3-link or something. :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Thinner is WAY easier with a mig.

Now I guess welding 1/4in for bumpers like Marty I would be more inclined to go stick.

But I am a newbie welder too, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

Ron

So....

Do you know what you get when you mix 2 car batteries, some jumper cables and a coat hangar? Marty welding!!!

Seriously, I wanna see pics of someone actually doing that.

I've only heard of it. Maybe Marty knows someone who has actually done it.

I will admit though, that Timm has said that stick is superior in many ways to wire feed. I won't argue.

Michael

Hey Mike,

I have a Millermatic 172 (MIG/220V). It is easy to use and set up. I think it was around $700 online. I also had to get the bottles and such at a local welding shop (cuz you know I have to use the gas man - as I am a gas passer by trade). I also took a night course at a local community college to learn basic MIG welding tech. It was great and I learned alot.

If I wuz you, I would stick with the MIG (as I can't weld worth a crap with a stick welder, and learning MIG was alot easier). And get one of the middle of the road machines (220V, adjust settings, variable wire speed, etc). Between 500-1000 bucks ought to do it nicely.

Blister

ps. been having some fun trying to weld mild steel to a cast iron lawn chair leg for a friend. I told her it would suck, but she is making me do it anyway.

I went Miller 210 with spool gun for alum. The 210 is all set up for dual use with a spool gun and mig gun, no need to break down to switch to alum and then back to steel.

That Miller 210 is probably what I would buy for the money. Give the Lincoln and ESAB a good look too though. My Lincoln stick welder sits in the corner taking up space and collecting dust. The only way I'd use a stick again is if i had to weld something outside where wind can blow the shielding gas away. I've been quite happy with my Millermatic 250X and Syncrowave 250. Consider a Teflon lined hose to make the wire feed smoother and more reliably.

I can''t agree more with buying a good helmet, it makes all the difference. I use the Hornell Speedglas 9000X and wouldn't trade it for anything. The variable sensitivity and shade is great for TIG and welding thin or thick stuff.

Originally posted by BillnSandi
Hey Mike,

If I wuz you, I would stick with the MIG (as I can't weld worth a crap with a stick welder, and learning MIG was alot easier). And get one of the middle of the road machines (220V, adjust settings, variable wire speed, etc). Between 500-1000 bucks ought to do it nicely.

Blister



yup! go with the mig! I suck at stick but am very much passable to good at flux cored to at least very good at gassed mig!

PS; sorry so quite been in D.Ct. then possible new home based at San Diego, and other places with no connectivity recently!

TomW

Originally posted by Serious One
So....



................ Maybe Marty knows someone who has actually done it.


Michael

A few years ago, we had a fellow in our shop that welded some scrap pieces together with coat hanger wire, just as a demo. Granted, he didn't do it with two batteries ( I got a feeling you're not going to let me forget this) but the hanger thing worked. Not the best looking welds or proceedure, but great when nothing else is available.

The key to welding, no matter which you use is PRACTICE, PRACTICE,PRACTICE..............

Another thing, most welding supply houses will give classes several times a year to promote a customer base, you might want to ask.

Marty

DAMN! over here all we seem to get is the plastic coat hangers.... wonder if that'll work? :rasta:

Jamie

Michael, I've done stick and MIG. For me, the MIG is much more user friendly. I use a Miller 220V Challenger 172 and love it. I used to have a smaller 110 unit, and the difference was amazing. I weld 1/4" steel all day long with my Miller and it never flinches.

I also took a night class at my local community college. I figured if I was going to rely on these welds, they better be done right. It was time and money well spent.

And yes, get a self-dimming helmet. The flip ups are a pain. They always fall down at the wrong time and won't flip down when you need them to. The nice thing about MIG is you can use it with or without gas. Flux core (no gas) is messier, but it's nice to have the option if you run out of solid core wire at 10 pm on a Sunday night.:)

Marty,

I knew you wouldn't fail me!!! That's a pretty cool story though. Apparently it really does work!

I'll get the ass-kickin'-est helmet I can. Flames will be sought after for sure.

I am meeting Timm at ye ol' welding shoppe this morning at 10. Looks like I'll be richer but poorer when I leave.

Thanks for all the advice. I'll probably get that Miller 172. We had the 210 at the last place I was at, and honestly I didn't like the results that they were getting from the aluminum spool gun. If and when I want to learn how to really weld aluminum I'll get that other kind of welder that puts down the buh-yooo-teee-ful beads (I can't remember what it's called).

F-in' newbie! :flipoff2:

Thanks guys. This board rocks. Try getting welder advice on Discoweb!

Michael

Originally posted by Serious One
If and when I want to learn how to really weld aluminum I'll get that other kind of welder that puts down the buh-yooo-teee-ful beads (I can't remember what it's called).


Michael

Can you say TIG (tungston inert gas)............

Speaking of aluminium, has anybody ever tried to fab a bumper from aluminium ????????

Marty

Originally posted by marty


Speaking of aluminium, has anybody ever tried to fab a bumper from aluminium ????????

Marty

SHHHHHHH It was going to be a surprise!:D :D

micheal

cant go wrong with a miller

but before you jump

think used

call some local welding suppley companys

if you can get the right power source ie:220 3 phaze

then you can get set up with awsome used true comercial stuff for very cheap

also check e-bay that sounds like a HEFTY PRICE for your first welder.

if you are only going to play

look for a used miller matic 110 cricket.

it plugs into any wall outlet ,only has two knobs(amps,feed speed) and a switch

and it will do 99.9% of all the welding a four wheeler would need

it can do both steel and aluminum with the correct flux core wire.

with some (not much) practice you will be welding in all positions including upside down.

then find a old lincoln 220 ac/dc for $100 bucks when you have to let some heat fly with a stick.

Originally posted by muskyman
micheal

cant go wrong with a miller

but before you jump

think used

call some local welding suppley companys

if you can get the right power source ie:220 3 phaze

then you can get set up with awsome used true comercial stuff for very cheap

also check e-bay that sounds like a HEFTY PRICE for your first welder.

if you are only going to play

look for a used miller matic 110 cricket.

it plugs into any wall outlet ,only has two knobs(amps,feed speed) and a switch

and it will do 99.9% of all the welding a four wheeler would need

it can do both steel and aluminum with the correct flux core wire.

with some (not much) practice you will be welding in all positions including upside down.

then find a old lincoln 220 ac/dc for $100 bucks when you have to let some heat fly with a stick.

why did i find myself reading that like a poem??? :D

Guys,

Well, I did it. I bit the bullet. I got a *new* (yeah, I didn't really try to find a used one), Millermatic 172.

It's nice and blue (which means it puts down a nice bead right?).

We fired her up and she's a beaut!

Now I need to learn to weld. Should be fun eh?

BTW, I couldn't find any flame-sportin' welding helmets. Bummer. :(

Later,

Michael

PS Thanks for all the advice!

pm weldpro and ask him.

Originally posted by Serious One

BTW, I couldn't find any flame-sportin' welding helmets. Bummer. :(


http://hoodlum-welding.com/images/burningskull_small.jpg

http://hoodlum-welding.com/hoods.htm

:D

Ok, now I've seen almost everything.

Just yesterday at the Team Trophy Challenge (an off-roading event near Tillamook, Oregon), I happened to hear about some guys working on a Scout doing some welding. I jokingly asked if they were using the batteries and a coat hangar. Nope, just the batteries.

I laughed, grabbed my camera and headed out to find them.

Yes indeed they were welding with actually 3 Optimas, but they were at least semi-prepared to do some welding as they had a whole box of weld rods (sticks?).

They apparently do this quite often, and the condition of the jumper cables attests to it. One of them (8 guage) was actually smoking the insulation. When I brought it to their attention they said 'oh that one does that all the time'.

Hmm..

Felt warm to the touch when I grabbed it during a short welding break.

I asked about the coat hangar. They said that it would work, but they had never tried it. I wanted to go find one in camp somewhere just to make the random event perfect.

Anyway, they said that 2 Optimas is enough to do thin sheet metal, but for a real weld with decent penetration that 3 works the best. Like I said, they apparently do this quite often.

I have a pretty good shot I'll send to Way.

Just thought I'd share for Marty! Hehe.

Later,

Michael

PIC

EDIT: I hope that the sunglasses are not what they were using for a mask!

Originally posted by Serious One
Ok, now I've seen almost everything.................................


..............................Just thought I'd share for Marty! Hehe.

Later,

Michael

Michael

Thanks for sharing, BTW, that's a great picture.

Marty

Oh I forgot to tell you what they WERE using for a mask! This is the best part, I can't believe I forgot.

They had left their mask home, so instead they cut up a little section of a GLAD trashbag, folded it in half, and stuffed it underneath the rim of his hat hanging down so it covered his eyes. I saw the clown glasses and suggested he wear them. That get up looked totally ridiculous. The problem with the glasses, and the reason he put them on the ground, was that he couldn't flip them up or down to see where the weld needed to be done.

Totally f-in awesome!

I wouldn't believe it if I didn't see it with my own eyes.

Later,

Michael

PS Thanks for the compliment on the pic. All in a days work I suppose!

nice, and im sure you didnt have to worry about breaking anything cause im sure that K-Car minivan in the backround has a spare CV joint just waitin for ya :D

great pic, great (short) story. :cool: