Update on plans for my minor modifications to my d90. Keep in mind that this design is based on the compromise between street and trail that is appropriate for my use of the d90. 90% off-road but some serious highway traveling. Very little around town.

I have pretty much completed the design of the new bed and cab. I just want to check the dimensions one more time before I start building the plug mold for the cab next week.

The cab is extended with a fast back look. It extends 27" behind the bottom of the seats (less at the top). The cutouts for the rear wheels start 3 inches forward of the present ones, and extend straight back. The cutouts are 12" above the floor of the present bed for more articulation. The tub of the bed is 38" wide (a bit wider than stock) to take a 37" MTR flat. The total width (tub plus fenders) of the bed tapers from full width at the cab to 48" at the rear. There are removable fenders (each about 29" long, 12" wide, and 3" deep) that sit on top of tapered fenders that go out to full width and maintain the look of the d90. These come off for doing serious rockcrawling and can be thrown into the cab. The gas tank will be a custom fitted job that will be under the slightly raised bed. Looks like it will hold about 18 gal.

The roll cage will be a main hoop behind the cab, tied into the existing front part of our cage, with two more members that drop down to the rear cross piece. They will tie in to the outside of the frame rather than on top to provide room in the bed for the tire to lay flat.

I plan to use a 35 spline Ford 9" in the rear with spool and a 44 in the front with CTM joints and an ARB. We (and others) have had good luck with the CTM's in 44's with 38" tires, so I am not too worried about them with the 37" MTR's (actually 36.5" on 8" rims). One of the local shops will build this up for me out of a one he has out back. Ill be able to get rid of that low track rod and move the drag link a bit higher. I have asked Tim C. for a part time conversion kit for the T-case. I have not talked to him in a while, so I don't know if he has remembered to build me one. I'm planning to go with 4.88's in the diffs and make the axles about 3" wider. Will go with a 6 on 5.5" lug pattern, and use steel, non-beadlock wheels.

Overall, I'm trying to keep things light. Hope to have it together by the next CC.

Rich

Hey Rich,

Sounds cool. I wanna see a mockup sketch or something to get a 'visual' (remember, I'm that kinda guy...)

Anyway, we made an adapter/extension cord for the Miller welder I bought today, which, coincidentally, can also work for the lathe that Cooper has in our shop!

I'll see him tomorrow afternoon and ask him about the conversion bits. I know he's trying to hold off on any major stuff until the bulk of my truck is done, and he's moved to CA, but it doesn't seem to me that the conversion takes too much time to make the parts. I'll bug him about it (no, I'll just ask him instead).

Later,

Michael

Michael,

Thanks. I was hoping you would offer to visit with Cooper. :):)

Rich

Michael,

By the way, congrats. on your Miller. I like mine.

Rich

Cool Rich! Yea, let's get some renderings! In know you have a 3d model of the thing in Auto-cad...Can you convert a Cad file to PDF, and then to jpg? Either that or take a digital shot of your screen!

I can't wait to see the product man! I have a feeling I'm gonna' be pretty darn envious of those removable side-pannels!

O'yea, SO...Get Cooper off his butt and have him build my part-time LT230 conversion too. We've been talkin' about it for a year now...

L8r guy's...

--D

What you are planning for the body sounds like a great concept (although a LOT more work than just cutting the crap outa what you already got :D ) And as a side note if I hit my rear fenders one more time and really bend then Im gonna cut the fawkers and move them it as well (just so I can be like Doug :D) I think that this is the best mod that you can do.

Why run the spool in the rear and not an ARB - strength? cost? axle already setup with gears and spool?

And also you say your not going to run beadlocks. With the 37s wouldnt you almost need them??

Great design though. Gunna be a lot of fun.

:beer:

Sam

CAD (Had to lower resolution to fit on POR, I can send full size via email to those that want a little bit of a bigger picture).

Adam, thanks for posting the picture.

Michael, thanks for sending it to Adam.

The body is going to be a lot of work. I really don't know if I can pull it off. Hope I can. Been making steady progress. You can't see where the fenders come off in the picture. But you can see where they slide outward around the cage.

I'm trying to go light and keep everything simple but strong in the drive train. This is why the lighter front and back axles. A dana 60 front weighs over twice as much as a 44. Unless they have finally come out with the 35 spline ARBs for a Ford 9 inch (I was told they are working on it) all one can get is a 31 spline. Even if one is available, I want to see how they last before I put one in. We can get 35 spline and 40 spline spools for a 9 inch.

Also, for the type of driving I do, I suspect a spool will be ok. I'm not going for the ultimate rock-crawler d90 (leaving that for Doug!). Just want something that will let me keep up with my Jeep friends on the trail (most have gone to near 100 inch wheelbases). On the highway, a spool actually stabilizes the vehicle (reduces yaw motions). When the road is slippery, spools and Detroits have the same stability problems since there is not enough traction to unlock the Detroit at highway speed under these conditions. I do hardly any in-town driving.

We also have several hard core guys that run rear mini-spools or Lincoln lockers (i.e., welding up the side gears) for years in vehicles that have most of the weight forward, and I have never seen them break a rear axle. Whereas their buddies with basically the same vehicles and rear axles with Detroits or E-Z lockers do occasionally break rear axles. I suspect that this has something to do with the damping effect of a tire chirping versus the rather more sudden nature of a Detroit unlocking. On vehicles that have most of the weight on the front (65-70%) and a long wheel base, a spool does not hurt turning that much since there is not much weight on the rear. There are some hard core guys in our club with ARBs front and rear who engage the rear ARB when starting a trail and don"t turn back off until they are finished for the day. The front ARB's come on only when needed. But of course, they aren't running Landrover rear axles.

I run 35 inch SSR radials and have not needed bead locks. Since radials have such flexible side walls, they can be run at higher pressures. I run mine at 13 psi. The 37 inch MTR's are actually 36.5 inches on 8 inch rims and I understand that competitors run them at 12 psi or a bit more on light vehicles. I'll wait and see if one really needs bead locks with the MTR's. We actually have several in the club that run either 38" Swampers or 38.5" Swamper SX's without bead locks!

Sam, I looked under my friends CJ7 (typical of what is turned into a rock crawler over here) and the front of his engine is 5-6 inches back of ours relative to the front axle. It is also a straight 6, so it's cg is even further back. He definitely does not lift a rear tire as much as I do when dropping off steep ledges. Mine gets scary some times, although I have never lifted both back tires (I have lifted both right tires but was able to drive under it). I think that I may try to move my front axle forward some and move the rear back less just to get a good weight balance. I don't really want to get more than 70% of the weight on the front axle.

Rich

Here is a pict. from this years CC inwhich I was dropping off a ledge (running one of the trails backwards by mistake). On the initial drop off both back tires were in the air and I felt like it was going over. Pretty good sphincter exercising!!

Blister

ps. Should not be a problem with 110" wheelbase :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

So Bill,

Where's the picture that Sandi *should* have gotten!!!

Looks like it's time to buck up for a camera that fires when you press the button, and can take several frames in a row!

(waving hand in air slightly...)

"You *will* buy Sandi a new digi-cam....You *will* buy Sandi a new digi-cam...."

Looks good though!

Michael

Mike sounds like you are trying to push one of your used Nikon D-series digi-cams:D . I suspect you have been droopling over the new ones.

Rich,

Sounds like you have everything figured out. I can tell you that most of the buggies in Farmington run a 104 to 107" range. With only 35" tires (if you keep it this way) you may want to consider going higher, or decreasing the wheelbase slightly. Long wheelbases help in areas like Farmington, but in areas like Johnson valley, and CC, I suspect that that the undercarriage will take a bit of a beating. Just out of curiosity why did you pick the magic number of 110.

As for the front, have you thought about (or are aware of) the hybrid Pro 44 axles that are out. Basically hear is what I know about them. Dynatrac makes them. The Pro 44 (what I have in the RR of mine) comes with 2.75" 1/2" wall housing (unitized), heavy duty wheel end assemblies, 11 3/4" x 1-5/16" rotors (can fit 15" rims FYI), etc. The axles on the hybrid are still the 1.31" 31 spline (usually what a stock 60 is anyways, and what a lot of 44s are). However the axles are the 60 style with the big u-joint. Of course the axle housing yokes are the d60 ones. Ball joints would be the 60 ones also. The weight would be between the 44 and 60, but I would expect the weight closer to the 44. You could get CTMs and the 35 spline outers (hubs and axle). This would be a very strong set-up and take care of the u-joint failure that is found when really beating a 44 up. Don't know about the cost, but it may be an option to explore. Of course the ground clearnace would be *slightly* better and the weight savings tremendous.

Way

Way,

I was going to go with a shorter wheelbase, say 100-102" with 37" tires. I think Doug is thinking about the longer wheelbase. For Las Cruces, all we really need is 98-100 inches. And you are right, we tend to high center things on our ledges so extra length means extra lift. For now, I will go with a cut down dana 44 axle from a waggy (Jeff Wood will put this together for me). Will put in alloy shafts and ctm joints. The waggy axle uses heavier ball joints and spindles than some other 44's and uses larger disks. Cheap since these are common. Dana 60's are rare in Las Cruces since most yards have already been picked through by visitors to the CC.

I have lots of options to use for the front and rear suspensions, but I think I will just keep it simple for now and use a stretched versions of my front suspension and the a stetched version of the stock rear suspension. For the first version, I may not even cut off the ears but will probably go with a bit longer shocks front and rear. After I get the balance the way I want it, I'll go back and re-think the suspensions front and rear after the next CC. The bottom line for me is to keep the vehicle nice on the highways (hence the cab) but make it a bit better off-road. I've wheeled with enough soft top d90's to know that my hard top was not really a liability as far as climbing ledges (was a liability as far as hitting things) and that the light cab surrounded by the cage should work out better.

My approach is to go slow and not put too much $ into the suspension and drivetrain until I am convinced it is really worth it the extra cost. I'm still trying to keep the unsprung weight down for higher speed off-road work (including climbing with a bit of momentum) and off-road comfort.

Rich:p

Sounds good. I am not sure where where I got the 110" measurement after re-reading the earlier post. After writing my senior sem paper all day, my eyes are probably playing tricks on me. Keep sending pictures. I (and the forum) really like to see your new concepts. Feel free to email them anytime.

I think the 44 will do just fine with 37" on your light d90. I have seen several buggies run larger than that down here without failure for several consecutive months of competition. If you run an air locker and treat it like your rover front, it will last forever. I have been wheeling mine lately on trails that I feared breaking CVs on in the past with no failure (yet..knock on wood). Let us know how your 44 holds up once installed. With CTMs and some moser shafts, you should be more than o.k. Do you have any high steer planned?

Way

Way,

Thanks. Yes, I am planning on putting in hi steer. Any anticaped problems or things to look out for? Sure is going to be nice to get rid of the track rod and the low drag link.

We have had one moser axle fail with ctm's. Moser thinks (and we are inclinded to agree) that the steering stop was not set so that the u-joint had enough play. Stretched the ear on the Moser.

Rich

I would definately mill the top of the knuckle so that it is near perfectly flat. This will give the most friction on the high steer arm and take the load off of the bolts. A lot of people gusset the arm to the knuckle. It seems to be working for them nicely. I have heard bad things of the Avalanche arms bending, however I do not know the person, nor did I see it in person (only pictures). I have heard great things about the WMS (wagoneer machine shop and the rockstomper ones). A great place for tie rods (cheaper than making your own even) is rockstomper. They can even make the rover thread if you want to keep that for some reason. I am happy to post a picture of it if you want. definately strong enough for full hydro.

Way

Rich,

Do you plan to cut down the 44/9" to match your current track width? How close will your offset(diff) be to what it is now as you did mention highway speeds being important.

Johnathan

Johnathan,

I am planning to go 1.5 to 3 inches wider in track. Have not decideed yet. Will have the front 44 re-tubed and a housing made for the rear 9" to the correct off-set.

Way,

Thanks for the good advice on the high steer arms.

Rich