Hey all, I have done searches and looked at the IH8mud site for SU conversions and all of these talk about doing it but I was wondering what it cost normally for someone else to do it. I can't weld and I came across a guy who builds Desert race trucks and will do the work for 250 rear and 750 for the front. He thinks that I will have to do three Heims joints for steering and I am a little skeptical about all of this. I don't think that I want to do a shackle reversal just yet and the truck it totally stock except longer shackles that were installed before I got it. Also I have 7 leaf packs in the front and they are totally flat, were these stock? Let me know if I am throwing my money away going this route or is it worth it..
Thanks

:rasta:
74 fj40 with stock 2f

If its done correctly, thats a fair price. I don't know if I would go heims for steering if your gonna drive it on the street.
In order to do it correctly it pretty labor intensive, thats where the cost gets you if you can't weld.
A guy up here used to do them fro $1,000. This included moving the spring perches front and rear, cutting and turning the front knuckles, double steering arm, shackle reversal, sleeving the frame for the spring shackle bushings, removing many rivets, removing rear frame shackle V mount plates from the frame,and welding in 1/4" plates in the rear inner frame. These were installed so the frame could be drilled and house the rear upper shackle sleeves. This guy is a pro, and has done many of these..But he dosen't do them anymore due to the ammount of labor vs cost, just no $$$ in it. If this guy you know does all of this, then yes its a good deal.
Flat springs flex good, and yes 7 leafs are stock.
I would highly recommend doing the shackle reversal, and power steering the same time as the spring over...You will not believe the difference in handling!:skull:

if you think you will want the SR later, you really should do it with the SOA, if you SOA with stock shackle locale, you will have 3 options to change it later,,

1) steer correction kit or similar, which results in a 11/2" lift, down side is the front will be higher than the back unless you use longer shackles on the rear or something. not to mention the rock plows you get.

2) shims, good idea bad form, they like to crack and wobble around, just not following the KISS idea.

3) cut off perches and reweld with new camber angle. best of the three but alot more time and work.

i think the $1000 SOA is long gone, if that bloke will do it for for the price you say make sure what he does and doesnt do first, i mean you will need D-shafts, shocks, brake lines ect.ect. that leaves very little for his labor.
you can however bring down the cost if you do all the little stuff yourself,(i.e. non-welding) like uninstalling the brake lines ,D-shafts ect.ect, and then re-installing it after.
anyway, its not cheap having it done, but regardless, i think its best to do it all at once, save you money and drive it stock for another summer if need be, but having someone do stuff all at once while its apart is alot cheaper than doing it one at a time.
good luck

A thousand is more than fair if he knows what he's doing just for comparison a friend of mine had his sprung over just last week and he paid 1200 drive in drive out and he provided the shocks to the installer.

Word of advice from someone who goofed: I presume you're going SOA to run bigger tires with plenty of flex and a good ride, right? If so, make sure your budget covers the regearing as well. I didn't do it at the same time because I ran out of $$$, thinking I would do it 6 months later or so. It's been 2 years and not only have I reduced the life of my clutch and dealt with serious power loss on inclines, my wheeling has also suffered, I find myself having to go faster than I want to, bouncing more (not a good thing with a tall SOA), and generally losing my finesse.

Like others have mentioned, if you're going to do it, DO IT RIGHT, a SOA is not something you want to be nickle-and-diming unless your truck is a trailer queen. I daily drive mine, and more importantly, my wife drives it sometimes, so I need it to be reliable and safe (within reason).

I definatley would like to run 35's .... Maybe even 36's but I hadn't thought about the regearing. What should I do, change the rear end gears? I want to put in a limited slip or locker but that is a total different discussion all togther... This guy who gave me the estimate reiterated to me that it was only an estimate and that the parts could run even more... Why don't you guys like to run Heims on the road, do they wear out quickly or are they unstable at highway speeds? This vehicle is a garage queen for the most part, but once in a while on a nice day I'll take her for a drive and somtimes to the desert, i am just sick of the 33x9.5 that are on there right they are.... :rainbow:
I appreciate the insight that you all have given...
Jarett
:rasta:
74 fj40 stocker

You will need to change the front and rear ratio, not just the rear. That will take out your transfer case in short order. You will probably wnat 4:88's. Figure in a lot of coin for that, it will run you at least $500 in parts alone.

If it is a trailer truck, you can get away without the gearing for now, but listen to waht 60 series guy says. You WILL want it in the future (says the guy who is trying to save up for it now...)

There should really be no need for the heims, as you can do the l/c steering with a little work. Go to the tech section of this site, and look under spring over/ shackle reversal.

If your just going to 35" stock 4:11 gears will work fine. I ran them with no problems. You can do the SOA S/R first, then later on if you want, re-gear. It not a necessity to accomplish the gear issue right away...
But if your gonna stick in a locker, I would regear at the same time. Thats gonna cost some $$$$. Bearings, gears, lockers, and labor is not cheap!
In the world of 4X it a matter of how slow do you want to go, it all depends on how much $ you have!:skull:

Welding class at community collage: $220

Lincoln AC stick welder with 6011 rod: $210

Spring perches from Summit: $24

Shocks and drive lines: $400

You should be competent enough
to weld a steering arm by now: $25

Total $879 and your on your way to building what ever else you want since you now know how to weld.

If you plan having someone do it for you then I would find a shop that has done it before, look at a vehicle that they have performed the work on, then consider cost.

I think that's a very conservative estimate!

I'm not going to dispute the cost of the welder/classes as I have neither, but 4 good quality extended-travel shocks are going to run you at least $200, and you'll probably pay more than $200 for driveline work. And while there are hundreds of SOA conversions out there with a welded double arm, this isn't really the *ideal* setup, you're much better off with a hi-steer style setup that puts all of your steering linkage above the springs and further out of harm's way.
So let's add the cost of a good pair of custom hi-steer arms (several manufacturers and prices to choose from), say, $250 on the average? That's not counting any new tie rod/rod ends that you may need.

Now we move on to the controversial part. To cut and rotate the knuckles or not? A lot of people don't believe this is necessary. Personally, I do. If you want to do this, throw in another $250 or so for the work done by a reputable guy.

I think $1,000 is a hell of a price for labor, but be advised that the total conversion costs could end up being a lot more than that, depending on the parts you decide on.

It's all relative, I have a friend who claims to have done a SOA conversion on his FJ60 for under $500 total, but the thing is an unsafe abomination. Others have done it for about the same price but ended up with a much better product. Those who don't have the skills/tools/time will end up paying a lot more. Ultimately, when compared to the $1,800+ of a complete OME suspension uninstalled(for a 60 series, anyway), a well-done SOA is actually pretty cost-efficient.

i dunno henry, i think you are on the wrong coast, i think the $400 for shocks and shafts is spot on, lets see
4 DT 3000 shocks are $150 @ 32 ea. mine are 32" extended
and re-tube (lengthen) shafts goes for $120 ea, and my guy gives $30 for cores, thats like $20 to me cuz i buy them from the pick-n-pull for $10
i wont argue the benefits of hi-steer, though i run a dbl arm, for now.
as far as my SOA/SR, i'm a very resourcefull guy i dont think i have more than $200 in my whole suspension job. including shocks, perches and steering parts i have to buy. and i would definitly call it sound, mine looks as good as any i have seen and better than some, and it works awsome!!!
i'm lucky to have skills/tools/time cuz i dont have the $$$ to pay others.
BTW, my spring perches were $18 for all four brand new from dodge.
cut and rotate, well yes and no, if your keeping the shaft short as in single case i say yes, but with a doubler, i think the shaft is long enough to be just a plus thing rather than needing to.

oh wait, i did buy a braided steel brake line for the front recently, that was $30 cool thing is they made it to my length which is a little longer than the ones you can buy. so i would put my whole SOA/SR at under $250 easy.

Originally posted by 60seriesguy
Now we move on to the controversial part. To cut and rotate the knuckles or not? A lot of people don't believe this is necessary. Personally, I do. If you want to do this, throw in another $250 or so for the work done by a reputable guy.


Why is it necessary? The only reason to cut and turn is to turn the pinion up to run a CV. If you have enough driveline in front (you will with the I6), you can run the pinion parallel to the TC output. You determine caster by where you weld the perches. Meaning, if you weld the SOA perches parallel to where the stock perches were, you will maintain correct caster and keep the pinion parallel to the TC output.

Since we had the equipment/ability, the SOA on my FJ55 was very affordable. $25 for perches and that was about it. A few rods and the electricity I guess. I had an extra arm for the double arm, we made new steel lines for the front brakes, the rear brakes just needed the frame mount moved. The rear driveshaft still fit, so all I have to pay for now is shocks and a front shaft (which could also be free since a rear FJ40 shaft fits pretty well in the front of a SOA 55). Cheap and easy lift. The benefits are somewhat reduced if you have to farm out the work though.

aaahhhhh....the cut and turn.

My opinion....IF you are doing a shackle reversal, then the knuckle rotation is necessary. IF you are leaving the shackles at the stock location, then it is optional.

Picture how your suspension works...the pivot location for the spring and axle is at the solid mount. The shackle end is what varies. On a stock-located suspension, the pinion rotates up as the springs extend. This allows you to simply weld parallel perches on top of the axle, maintain identical caster geometry, and have no issues with driveshaft bind. The disadvantage is, it is frequently helpful with larger tires to introduce additional caster, tipping the pinion further down, but potentially creating driveshaft bind issues.

With the shackle reversal, the pinion now rotates down on extention. This increases the angularity of the driveshaft u-joints and increases the chance of binding the system. Cutting/turning the axle allows you to alleviate this bind issue. Also note, since the pinion rotates down, it also pulls away from the transfer case on extention....In my case, I USE 7" of spline on my front driveshaft (worst case). I run a 11" stroke front shaft, and those aren't cheap. No CV however, since it's primarily a trail truck.

If it were my truck, I'd cut and turn. However, I would not be afraid to build a stock-shackled truck without the cut and turn.

Originally posted by FeCamel


Why is it necessary? The only reason to cut and turn is to turn the pinion up to run a CV. If you have enough driveline in front (you will with the I6), you can run the pinion parallel to the TC output. You determine caster by where you weld the perches. Meaning, if you weld the SOA perches parallel to where the stock perches were, you will maintain correct caster and keep the pinion parallel to the TC output.

Since we had the equipment/ability, the SOA on my FJ55 was very affordable. $25 for perches and that was about it. A few rods and the electricity I guess. I had an extra arm for the double arm, we made new steel lines for the front brakes, the rear brakes just needed the frame mount moved. The rear driveshaft still fit, so all I have to pay for now is shocks and a front shaft (which could also be free since a rear FJ40 shaft fits pretty well in the front of a SOA 55). Cheap and easy lift. The benefits are somewhat reduced if you have to farm out the work though.

Sounds to me like you have not installed and run your front driveshaft yet. Assuming that is so, I warn you that a cut and turn may be avoidable on an FJ-40 since the front shaft is so long, however on a Pig or fj-60, the front shaft is VERY short and lifting the truck without pointing the pinion at the front output of the T-case is going to cause severe binding in the front U-Joint.

I have never seen anyone get away without it on a Wagon.

If you still don't want a cut/turn, Jesse at High angle can get you a V6 Mini Ujoint that will take the angle you are going to have. Just send him the driveshaft and he will modify it for you.

I didn't think that I was going to get Nolen and Brian involved in this issue..... Thanks guys... I figured that this was an easy way to get a good lift without a whole lot of hassle but now it sounds like I should buy springs and get the typical lift from sor-maf-or whoever. I guess my last question is why didn't Toyota do a spring over to begin with, is it more stable to have a spring under? I look at current trucks on the road and most are sprung over except like small pick ups and such.. Anyhow, I think CruiserBrett is going to come by sometime and take a look to give me some ideas.... I wasn't planning on doing the shackle reversal but everyone seems to have good and bad issues with this. Maybe there should be a "Vote Here" Shackle Reversal Y or N......
Jarett

The prices I posted were from my experience about 2 years ago. They are correct. You will not get a AA in welding technologies for $220 but it will get you a semester of lab time and all the rod or wire you can burn. The local drive line shop is $1 an inch for new tube and $65 to weld and balance.:cool:

I did not do a cut and turn with the s.o., s.r. To keep the u-joints from binding I ground some material from the yokes and the slip joint could most definitely be longer. The stock 4" on the cruiser shaft just plain SUCKS!

Woody and Nolan have given great advice, and I agree with them entirely. I would take it one step further and point out that the most common reason for doing a spring-over conversion is to attain better articulation. In the quest for more articulation, the more drop the better. If this is a goal and you open up the spring clamps or change the shackles to allow for more drop, I think you need to cut and turn the pinion up even in an FJ40. Otherwise you will bind the u-joint, and I don't think grinding of the joint is a good solution.

I have never seen anyone get away without it on a Wagon

you have now !!, well i gues you havent, i didnt cut and turn my front axle, i have intended to do a doubler from the start so i am anticipating the longer shaft,, however i must say i havent had any probs or binding so far. i do run a square shaft for the slip.

ok this is from the king of cheap, i did my soa on my fj62 for under 20 bucks, and that was for beer. i did not do a shackle reversal just a simple soa. my drive lines are still stock. the front is fine the rear needs to be about 1 1/2" longer. i have had my 62 up to 70 and that was as fast as i wanted to go on a set of 38 super swampers that have never seen a balancer. plus with no doors on it, it gets kind of hairy. but i have the tools and ability to fab up about anything i want or need. mike

IT all depends,

If your doing a SOA, you might as well do it right.

I figure I am about 1500 into my SOA on my CJ, with high steer, Discs front and rear, Drive lines, new gears and lockers etc. but remeber I rebuilt everything with new parts.. from the hubs in on the front end same with the rear end

Could I have gotten away with doing it for under a 1000 sure, but like I said I only wanted to do it once and get all the bs stuff out of the way.

If you want to find out about prices and having a shop do it, you could contact Ron at custom cruisers down here in Gilroy, his number is Call (408) 842-FJ40(3540) or email him at curise13@ix.netcom.com