Welcome to the next installment of the

Topic of the Week

The subject of the week is welding. Tips, tricks and techniques.

What kind of prep work do you need to do?
How do you lay a vertical bead?
How do you run an inverted bead?
Can you really build a rig with a 110V wire feed jobbie?

Put the gloves on, don the helmets, and start your buzz box!

This is a freebee for those that don't want to buy a welding manual. Armys' welding manual. Download and install on CD.
Here's the link:http://www.adtdl.army.mil/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/tc/9-237/toc.htm
This came up on a previous post, Tell me why I can't do this (welding)
Have fun, and good topic. Andy

I have found that a 110 volt MIG is fine for 95% of the welding that you would need to do on your jeep. I am comfortable welding 1/4" steel with it...no prob bob. I deffinetely prefer gas mig over flux core mig. Try it and you'll never go back, I learned on gas so I was never too happy with flux core;) I would like to hear about overhead welding with a MIG. This is one area that I haven't been satisfied with. Maybe it's the machine and maybe it's just the gas being heavier than atmosphere so it isn't shielding properly? Fab ON:grinpimp:

Originally posted by desertCJ
I have found that a 110 volt MIG is fine for 95% of the welding that you would need to do on your jeep. I am comfortable welding 1/4" steel with it...no prob bob. I deffinetely prefer gas mig over flux core mig. Try it and you'll never go back, I learned on gas so I was never too happy with flux core;) I would like to hear about overhead welding with a MIG. This is one area that I haven't been satisfied with. Maybe it's the machine and maybe it's just the gas being heavier than atmosphere so it isn't shielding properly? Fab ON:grinpimp:

Welding overhead doesn't work that good mainly because of gravity. The molten puddle tends to drip a little before it cools enough to solidify. When you're welding from above, the drip just stays in place, and when you're welding sideways it just drips into where you are about to weld or over where you just welded. But when you weld overhead, it drips down to the floor and away from the weld area, thus making it difficult. I avoide overhead at almost any cost. Most pro welders will do the same.

J. J.

The biggest thing I have learned from welding with a 110 welder is that you need to push the weld. I had a racecar builder show me this. Also, practice, practice, practice.

Erin

Welding overhead isn't fun but it can be done. I'm a pipefitter so I have to weld overhead, where I can't see, standing on my head...etc etc. You just have to work the puddle a little more than usual and whip it back and forth and to let it cool a tiny bit(hard to explain). The key is practice practice practice. I weld mostly stick so I can't offer you Mig guys much advice

When using MIG overhead, reduce your wire speed some. Also, always push the puddle, and try to keep the angle of the nozzle at about 35*. I guess you could say that you are trying to keep pushing the puddle up with the force of the arc, if that makes any sense.

Whenever welding out of position remember to wear earplugs. It only takes one bit of slag to land in your ear canal where ya can hear it sizzeling to make ya appreciate this lil tip.:flipoff2:

Who needs to weld thats what Duct tape if for...:flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

haha no real constructive advice to add. I can weld enough to mind my own buisness, but not to dish out shit loads of advice....

i do however prefer stick, i just do go figure, i am better with stick than with mig.

As for self taughters (like me) just get some scrap and PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE then when you are done PRACTICE some more.

Oh yeah and dont grab what you been welding on for 15 minutes right after it 'cools' down... and dont let a puddle of weld run off(vertical) and fall onto your shoe... it will burn through and it does hurt, alot.

One thing I remember my welding teacher saying was "No slag No drag" as in push the puddle when you use a mig and drag the arc when using stick/arc.;)

If you want to run a nice bead, one of the things to consider is keeping the weld area clean. Clean it up good before you start, and then keep it clean with a slag hammer/wire brush as you go along.

I like to keep a spray bottle full of water next to me to cool metal immediately after welding.

110 Migs can do most jobs on a Jeep if you prep it well, and bevel the pieces when necessary. These will exercise your patience however if you respect the duty-cycle.

I like to keep a spray bottle full of water next to me to cool metal immediately after welding.

That's a good way to warp the metal man:rolleyes: The best thing to do is let it cool slowly.

What size MIG is needed to weld on 1/4" stuff, or a frame? Would a Hobart 135 do the job if I prepped it right?

Originally posted by Meyer
What size MIG is needed to weld on 1/4" stuff, or a frame? Would a Hobart 135 do the job if I prepped it right?

Yes.

J. J.

Originally posted by desertCJ


That's a good way to warp the metal man:rolleyes: The best thing to do is let it cool slowly.

spraying water on a weld is considered a form of quenching. quenching is used when your looking for a sharp edge, such as with a knife blade. the hardened metal will hold it shape better, but thus becomes more brittle. when welding on your jeep, it would be best to temper the metal and let it cool down by itself. you will still have plenty of strength, but just the added bonus of flexibility (somewhat).



-russel

In so far as prep goes, here's my little ritual.

I keep a bottle of MEK laying around along with a 100 grit flap wheel. I usually clean the base metal up well with the wheel, and then wipe it down with MEK to be sure that there are no contaminants in the area.

In so far as welding goes, my best advice would be to take a class at your local community college. The best way to learn is practice and to get some variety in the processes. Pays to have expert instruction as well. The money spent is an excellent investment when you consider the returns. Not to mention, many of them allow you free rein of the metal in the area. I already built a cart for my HH175 and bottle, a front winch bumper, skid plates, and lots more for absolutely nothing.

Also, try to learn SMAW (stick) first. This process will really teach you about control of the electrode and weld puddle and will give you a strong base for MIG and TIG if you go that route.

Originally posted by olivesman


spraying water on a weld is considered a form of quenching. quenching is used when your looking for a sharp edge, such as with a knife blade. the hardened metal will hold it shape better, but thus becomes more brittle. when welding on your jeep, it would be best to temper the metal and let it cool down by itself. you will still have plenty of strength, but just the added bonus of flexibility (somewhat).



-russel

Duly noted - thanks!:beer:

Welding 101
Here are a few things I have learned from 15yrs of welding on Jeeps and other things.
1)Any welder less than 150amps is for exhaust and body repair.
2)Using a welder that is set colder than what is required to do it properly is easyer to make a pretty bead but if you are not going to weld it properly then use bolts. You show me a piece of 1/4 steel welded with a 110v welder and I will show you a glorifed tach weld. For those of you who weld stuff that thick with a 150amp welder or less it is more a testament to your enginerring than to your welder. I know this comes accross as me bing a D!ck but I have owned a Lincolin 155 and loved it and now have a Miller Vintage and now see the difference between melting wire into the shape of a puddle on a piece of steel and fusing 2 pieces of steel together. I just want to steer clear people from buying 2 welders if they can help it or at least know that a 100 amp welder is a dangerous because you are going to weld something that is important and it just might fail when you least want it.
3)Vertical welding--oh no! Its easy. Start at the top and work your way down with the gun pointed up say 30* or so and that will hold the puddle up. Now this is not the code way to do it but you will get very good results from this. Start at the top and weld your way down.
4)Overhead welding. Tip switch to Co2 if you are going to do a fair amount of it because it freezes the puddle faster. Co2 works very well for viertical welding also. Now if you are using the satandard C25 (75/25) Argon/Co2 then your bad overhead welds have more to do with you being out of position than the weld. What I mean is if you were comfortable then you would weld better but since you are all twisted up most of the time the weld shows it. Other tips would be push the weld slightly so that you are blowing the weld into the metal. Also bump up the gas flow from 15cfm to 17 or 18.
5)Gas flow setting is 15cfm. This is what you need to set the flow at when the trigger is pressed, ie. flow during welding. If you are outside then you should bum it up a little but not much or you get arch-blow and just waist gas.
6)Do a test piece to check your settings. You realy only need to do this once because you will then know what your welder is capable of.
7)2 pieces of metal that form a V require more heat to wled than than they do butted together. So a welder set for 1/4 and you are welding 1/4 in a V configuration is set to low to do it right. You need to bump it up to get proper penitration.
8)Put the ground clamp as close to wher you are welding as you can. There will be a small amount of arching between the clamp and what id being welded so remember that if the surface is important.
9) Clean out the splatter!!! It doesn't take very much splatter in the tip to start effecting the gas flow and that effects the weld.
10)Anyone who tells you that you can weld chromoly with a mig tell them they are an Idiot. I can elaborate on this if needbe but just remember Don't do it.

Originally posted by 66CJdean
10)Anyone who tells you that you can weld chromoly with a mig tell them they are an Idiot. I can elaborate on this if needbe but just remember Don't do it.

Why?

Originally posted by withamc


Why?

Actually, that's a good question - what to use to weld chromoly to the tube adapters from Avalanche or someone. TIG, I assume?

Also, what's double sheer welding? (From AE)

:beer: for a great TOTW!

Bryan

What's the best way to weld on axle tubes? IE, spring pads, shock mounts, etc. Is 110 enough? Or is using stick, what number would work best?

Yes you have to Tig it or gas weld it. You should weld it in a room that is about 80* with no breeze and then annealed. Welding 4130 with a mig welder is like putting small bias ply tires on a Viper. Sure it works but you just removed the performance of it.
A mig welded joint will be very brittle so you loose all the strength of the tubing you paid big money for. Now welding on a tube adaptor is not a big deal because it slides inside the tubing and the weld only holds it in. Add two plug welds to it just for safety but that is a good idea on any tube adaptor.

Originally posted by wsuxjer
What's the best way to weld on axle tubes? IE, spring pads, shock mounts, etc. Is 110 enough? Or is using stick, what number would work best?

Stick for sure. Buy some 7018 and use it for most anything.

I worked in a Fab/machine shop where we had 200+ amp MIGs and a 135 Miller 110V. As I recall we never did any muffler work nor body work. It was because of this that I went out and bought the same welder for my Jeep. Although I don't like the low duty cycle (20%) since I haven't ran it lower than 7 on Heat dial.

One tip I picked up that helps when setting wire speed, if the bead is tall, you are either too cold or too fast.

My whole Jeep is built with 7018AC rod. Amperage varied from 80 to 250. I used Forney high nickel rods whenever welding to the center sections of the diffs, which was avoided whenever possible. Oddly enough the high nickel rods shoot red sparks when ground, just like the parent metal does. All the vertical beads were laid down, with a near-flat electrode angle and slight whip depending on what was being welded.
I believe "double shear" refers to how I built the link bars and drag link. DOM tubing with inserts welded in, but also holes drilled through the tubing and plug welded.
I'm no expert, but this is what's worked for me. And it's held together great going in and out of the shop. :D

OK, so what rods & supplies to take on the trail if you have an onboard welder or plan on welding with batteries in the event of breakage? Spare steel? Little baby torch kits? (:eek:)


I was thinking a few 7018 rods, helmet, gloves, maybe some 1"x1" angle iron & flat stock, brush & slag hammer.

Bryan

I would not reccomend ARC welding on a JEEP axle, look at how thin it is. If you have a Ford RC d60 up front GO FOR IT.

Axles tubes are CRAP and can warp easily, Make sure you keep the axle cool where your bearing are, if you dont have the time to take the beraings out.

Also Cast metal requires a different wire. For mig use a high nickle content wire, Nickle is flexable and will not crack. Cracking is becuase your two metals case and mild steel have different coefficients of expansion so then will move independently throught the heatina nd colling process causing your weld to crack.

What do you ARC welders use on CAST?



4)Overhead welding. Tip switch to Co2 if you are going to do a fair amount of it because it freezes the puddle faster. Co2 works very well for viertical welding also. Now if you are using the satandard C25 (75/25) Argon/Co2 then your bad overhead welds have more to do with you being out of position than the weld. What I mean is if you were comfortable then you would weld better but since you are all twisted up most of the time the weld shows it. Other tips would be push the weld slightly so that you are blowing the weld into the metal. Also bump up the gas flow from 15cfm to 17 or 18.

How do you measure 15cfm? cfm=(cubic Feet per min)?
I set my C25 gass to 15psi on the regulator, with .03 wire, for 1/8 to 1/4in welding.


Pushing the weld? I let my hand lead from 45-30° not the tip lead is that correct for MIG welding?
I do use the described technique for over head welding, which is the same hand leads the weld.

GREAT TOPIC!!
sorry I ripped someones pic off another post....
http://www.geocities.com/electricashman/electricashman/mods/tube_thickness.gif

My gauge is rated in CFM and if yours isnt then you should replace it with one that is. I couldn't tell you the ratio of CFM to PSI so sorry no help.
On pushing the weld the gun needs to be pointed the direction you are going not dragging behind. You can get acceptable weld like that but once you practice pushing you will see it welds better, looks better, and penitrates better. The only time I drag is on vertical welds to keep the puddle up. With an arc welder you drag because the flux is to protect the weld where the gas is to purge the area before the weld. Hope that helps

If you are welding vertical with stick, then I would use an E6011 rod. The welds aren't going to look as pretty as an E7018 rod, but the puddle solidifies quicker making for less drip. I took a welding class the past two years in high school and the smallest welder that we had was a millermatic 235 amp mig welder. The other ones that we had were 300+, stick, mig, and tig. after learning to weld with production welders, I agree that 110v welders are only for exhaust and body work. I have a crasftman 100 amp mig welder, and just recently bought a hobart stickmate 235, and I would rather use the stick welder than the small mig anyday.

Regarding using an onboard welder, if you weld with it on your own rig always connect the electrode holder to the positive or you'll short out the whole creation in there. And for god's sake don't hold the ground clamp in your mouth while you reposition under there with a live electrode flailing around in your hand! :)

One tooth Jimmy, out...

Well, I've welded going on 19 years now. 11 years professionally.
Seriously, that doesn't mean anything. Neither does a paper saying you're "certified"
One thing I've found is that everyone has their own technique for getting it done but, it all goes back to the basics: puddle control and penetration. Good hand/eye coordination.
For stick I use Eutectic&Castolin rods. To me they are superior to Lincoln.
For MIG, I like the 75/25 mix shielding gas (75%CO2-25%argon)
For MIG overhead I turn the wire speed up very slightly and the heat down slightly. (As compared to welding flat on the same thickness material) I also turn up the gas pressure some and I trigger the weld in. I'll hold and watch for the "keyhole" to form, travel until the puddle wants to fall out, release the trigger to "freeze" the weld and go again. What I'm left with is a weld that has 100% penetration and looks as if it was done flat.
Novice you say? BS you say? Go right ahead, I've had them pass X-ray.
I also break the rules by welding vertical downhill. I turn the heat up and the wire speed down and run slow continuous.
Appearance is about 80 percent of a welds strength.
For welding sheet metal I stitch weld and wipe it down with a damp rag.
Welding 4130 with a MIG, Dean, I like your analogy, like putting small bias plies on a Viper it kills its performance.
I agree completely, you can pre heat, post heat piss around all day, nothing beats TIG.

Originally posted by 66CJdean
My gauge is rated in CFM and if yours isnt then you should replace it with one that is. I couldn't tell you the ratio of CFM to PSI so sorry no help.
On pushing the weld the gun needs to be pointed the direction you are going not dragging behind. You can get acceptable weld like that but once you practice pushing you will see it welds better, looks better, and penitrates better. The only time I drag is on vertical welds to keep the puddle up. With an arc welder you drag because the flux is to protect the weld where the gas is to purge the area before the weld. Hope that helps

Ill give it a try on friday! thanks!


Dude why does this little jeep icon have a Passenger side drop?
GM JEEP
:jeep:

Does any one use there oxy torch for welding?

I have one sitting around with no gass, but would like to give it a try, any pointers? I have it sitting around to use as a cutting torch but havent bought a cutting tip yet.

I always find prep to be almost the most important part of the weld. Do a good job on prep and it makes the weld so much easier.

I think unless you are a welding god you pretty much only use O/A for cutting, I don't like welding with o/a.

Tig is the best if you can do it right, if you can't weld yet and have access to a class maybe take a tig class, after that mig will seem like childs play.

The lincoln arc welding book rules!
Practice practice practice. I haven't welded in a while and I'm losin it, damn college taking up all my time.
-Nate

Originally posted by ashmanjeepXJ
Does any one use there oxy torch for welding?

I have one sitting around with no gass, but would like to give it a try, any pointers? I have it sitting around to use as a cutting torch but havent bought a cutting tip yet.

I can tell you what I was taught.
Light the torch and adjust the flame to neutral to very slightly carburizing.
With your writing hand take the torch and hold it using your thumb, index and middle finger. palm up or down wichever is more comfortable.
Start with a flat plate say about 1/8" thick and holding tip at about a 45 degree angle start a puddle off the edge of the plate. Once you have a puddle started begin making a small circular motion and move the puddle across the plate.
Practice doing this without adding welding rod until you can keep a straight and uniformed width "bead" across the center of the plate.
When you feel you're ready, try it with rod. Bring the rod in from the opposite direction (other hand :D ) at a 45 degree angle and "dip" the rod into the puddle. Don't forget that circular motion with the torch.
You'll be doing yourself a favor if you learn this basic first.
Later on, torch welding joints will be alot easier and less aggrivating.
I hope I helped.

Originally posted by ashmanjeepXJ


What do you ARC welders use on CAST?

A powder alloy delivery system :D
I've used nickel rods (pre and post heat)

OK, I need a difinitive answer here: To MIG weld to a cast dif housing, do I need to do anythign special? I know that with stick welding I need special rod and pre heating, but is any of this necessary to MIG weld to it?

J. J.

NO......nothing special is required to MIG weld on pumkins and knuckles. In theory you are suppose to use high nickel content wire, just use a premium wire and go for it. The stuff I did with a MIG worked better than what I did with nickle rod with an arc welder. I have had no problems yet and I have been driving it and wheeling it for about a month now.:D

I have done a fair amount of welding on diffs and all I do is preheat it enough to get the moisture to come out of it in the area that I am going to weld and then weld it. It would be best to use a 80 or 90 wire but I have just stuck with the ER70-6S. You can skip the preheat but make sure you over build what you are going to do because the zone at the heat effected area will get hydrogen embrittlement so it won't be nearly as strong as one that was done right.

Originally posted by doctor_G


I can tell you what I was taught.
Light the torch and adjust the flame to neutral to very slightly carburizing.
With your writing hand take the torch and hold it using your thumb, index and middle finger. palm up or down wichever is more comfortable.
Start with a flat plate say about 1/8" thick and holding tip at about a 45 degree angle start a puddle off the edge of the plate. Once you have a puddle started begin making a small circular motion and move the puddle across the plate.
Practice doing this without adding welding rod until you can keep a straight and uniformed width "bead" across the center of the plate.
When you feel you're ready, try it with rod. Bring the rod in from the opposite direction (other hand :D ) at a 45 degree angle and "dip" the rod into the puddle. Don't forget that circular motion with the torch.
You'll be doing yourself a favor if you learn this basic first.
Later on, torch welding joints will be alot easier and less aggrivating.
I hope I helped.

THANKS,

My friend gave me some pointers on the flame, adjust the gass till the two flames are super-imposed.

I know oxy causes more metal strength dammage, it over heats surrounding areas. Mig or Tig helps isolate the heat to the desired region, this increases the weld strength by not over heating large areas.

So what would you really want to oxy weld?
Applications, Im gonna fill the tanks just play around with it cause its fun but I currently dont see many uses for it over my Hobart 135 MIG or Lincoln 225 ARC.

Its completely portable and CHEEP, so its great for on-trail fixes,and I have used mine for bending some brackets at 90°. But would it be better to just cut it and weld it @90° using my mig or arc? Which is stronger bending or welding assuming my given welders (hobart 135, lincoln 225)and assuming I know how to use them.

Any opinions?

1/4in thick 90° bracket bends vs cut and weld brackets (no added reienforcements just a butt connection).

:question:

I bought a Miller Thunderbolt 225 stick to do most of my frame work... very sweet. Now, I need to get a MIG for my rollcage... I'll be using 1.75 x 0.120 wall tubing. Do you guys think a Millermatic 135 will work or should I go with a higher 175 model. I like the portability of the 135. Thanx

-Josh

Since the roll cage just might save your life I say get the 175. Welding 1/8 single pass is no problem with that. Sice so much of the welding will be in corners on a roll cage you will need some extra heat to get the proper penitration on those areas.

I feel that if the welder is set right you will burn through if you stay in the same place to long.

Ashmanjeepxj, it's been close to 17 years since I welded with oxy/acet. Funny how it was all coming back to me as I was posting. :D
The only things I use the torches for anymore are for borium surfacing, heating/bending, cutting and the occasional brazing.
I use MIG to weld everything (it spoiled me rotten about 15 years ago) It's the ARC welder that collects dust. :eek:
The brackets you spoke of, well, you can do them either way.
I would say it would depend on your welding ability, If you're confident, weld them. (a finished weld should be as strong as the parent metal when done correctly)
Since you have tanks and perhaps a good vise, might be easier to just bend them.

Originally posted by 66CJdean
Welding 4130 with a mig welder is like putting small bias ply tires on a Viper. Sure it works but you just removed the performance of it.
A mig welded joint will be very brittle so you loose all the strength of the tubing you paid big money for.

So this means what for the Chromoly spring pads I MIG welded on my 44?

Originally posted by 66CJdean


I feel that if the welder is set right you will burn through if you stay in the same place to long.

Similar to what my Grandpa taught me.

I don't do much arch, but where do you use AC, DC+, DC-? I suppose it sez in the manual, but any info would be good. My brother just bought a ARC that I want to get better at....mostly being able to pick the right amps quicker than trial and error I do right now.

What selection of rod should I have around the garage?

I am looking for a good all purpose power source, I would like to do Aluminium with a Spool gun, MIG (without a spool gun), TIG, and Stick. Am I just dreaming of a multipurpose machine?

Thanks

Originally posted by LAME

What selection of rod should I have around the garage?

If your partial to Lincoln, maybe some 6010 or 6011's (good for metals that aren't very clean)
Some 7018's! (good all purpose for strength)
Maybe some 6012 or 6013's (sheet metal and small jobs)
You'll probably find that you need to get 7018's more often. :D

I have Eutectic+Castolin rods 6666, 6601's (all purpose)
and XHD-2230 (welding dissimilars)
I really liked using Eutectic rods if I was laying under something welding overhead, no spatter!

Like I said earlier, the arc stuff mostly collects dust. I use MIG for about everything.

my .02. leave the crown on the weld, ie dont grind it off to make it smooth. half of your strength is on the outside of the welded joint. Also, my old lincoln 110 woultn't touch an axletube in "mig" mode. So, I got a millermatic 250-that dog WELDS!!

Originally posted by ashmanjeepXJ



why does this little jeep icon have a Passenger side drop?
GM JEEP
:jeep:

70's FSJ with a Q-trac T-case

I have a problem of melting or blowing holes in the metal i am welding. I own a hobart 180 220v mig and when I increase wire it blows holes in the metal.
when i turn it down I get a tall bead and it looks like poor penetration. I know the metal I am welding is addequite for the welder 2x4 3/16 box steel
and I still blow holes. what am I doing wrong?

Might want to remind some folks thinking about stick welding to keep 7018 rods DRY. I quickly lose my enthusiasm for them once they get any moisture. Before you use them, pop them into the oven at around 250-300 for a while. For this reason and its preference for very clean metals, it's not the best rod for an onboard stick setup... the aforementioned 6011 is a better choice for a quick fix. If you need to reweld once you get back to a garage, then use the 7018. If you want to, find a way to power a grinder (air or 120V) and make a sealed metal electrode box that will mount above the exhaust manifold for keeping the rods dry on the trail, and then bring your 7018's along.

May as well pimp my $64 onboard welder (http://www.novajeepers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=7954&highlight=weldernator) here, as well.

Ive got a 110v setup with flux core, what can I practice on? Don't plan to use it for anything on the jeep, and eventually plan to take a class and purchase a 220v Mig. Just would like to practice some in the mean time, and maybe tack in some roll bar additions. Ill let a "pro" finish the welds.

Ive got a 110v setup with flux core, what can I practice on?
Scrap.
Flux-cored wire runs a little differently than gas-shielded, but you'll get a feel for it.
Get a hold of some scrap metal, cut it and set it up in various configurations (butt, corner, lap, "T", etc.); weld it up, and XS cut through your welds to check your penetration.

Scrap.
Flux-cored wire runs a little differently than gas-shielded, but you'll get a feel for it.
Get a hold of some scrap metal, cut it and set it up in various configurations (butt, corner, lap, "T", etc.); weld it up, and XS cut through your welds to check your penetration.


Any suggestions on thinkness? Heat settings? Line speeds? Polarity?

Whenever I try and weld anything I just end up with a lot of spatter and Id hardly call the end product a bead of any kind.

Linclon Electric used to have some tables in their machine manuals, online, that would give you feed and heat range for different wire sizes and base metal thickness.

I have a problem of melting or blowing holes in the metal i am welding. I own a hobart 180 220v mig and when I increase wire it blows holes in the metal.
when i turn it down I get a tall bead and it looks like poor penetration. I know the metal I am welding is addequite for the welder 2x4 3/16 box steel
and I still blow holes. what am I doing wrong?

You have the heat and feed too high and/or you are moving too slow. What size wire are you using? For 3/16" I would set my 175 to a 4/20 or3/40~50. What are you set at? I used to think I made decent welds. Now I look back at them and laugh. Once you learn to control the gun and puddle you can see what adjustments need to be made to the machine. The key is practice. Once you think you are good....practice some more. Then try to weld out of position. This gives you a whole new respect for guys who do this for a living.

For welding overhead I do weave. This allows one side to cool slightly while the puddle is on the opposite side. I also weld vertical downhill. Prep is extremelly important. I either use my flap disks in my 4.5" grinder or scotchbright pads on my air grinder.

This is a freebee for those that don't want to buy a welding manual. Armys' welding manual. Download and install on CD.
Here's the link:http://www.adtdl.army.mil/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/tc/9-237/toc.htm ...

Newb say "linky no worky"

Once you learn to control the gun and puddle you can see what adjustments need to be made to the machine.
This is key. A lotta guys think running a MIG is like using a glue gun... just squirt it on... but it doesn't work that way. You have to watch and manipulate the puddle.. It's something you eventually get attuned to, but you have to learn a real feel for what's going on in that puddle.
A good welding instructor won't let you near a MIG until you've mastered gas and stick welding. It's for good reason. You've gotta get good at manipulating the puddle to lay down anything that even resembles a decent bead with gas, and the same holds true with stick welding. It's all too easy to lay something down with a MIG gun that looks pretty good, but won't hold worth shiat.
I learned welding a lotta years ago, from a crusty old guy that had done it all. He wouldn't even let you pick up a pice of rod until you could run a perfect bead with just a torch and the pieces of metal to be joined. There's no better way to learn. Fit-up has to be perfect, and the puddle has to be controlled precisely, or it'll be a mess in a hurry!

Yes you have to Tig it or gas weld it. You should weld it in a room that is about 80* with no breeze and then annealed. Welding 4130 with a mig welder is like putting small bias ply tires on a Viper. Sure it works but you just removed the performance of it.
A mig welded joint will be very brittle so you loose all the strength of the tubing you paid big money for. Now welding on a tube adaptor is not a big deal because it slides inside the tubing and the weld only holds it in. Add two plug welds to it just for safety but that is a good idea on any tube adaptor.

Are you saying welding on threaded tube adaptors should or should not be done with a MIG?

Yes, you can weld tube adapters with a mig.

And for the people just starting.. If you value your lungs, DO NOT use brake clean to clean the parts before welding.... Trust me..

I bought a Miller Thunderbolt 225 stick to do most of my frame work... very sweet. Now, I need to get a MIG for my rollcage... I'll be using 1.75 x 0.120 wall tubing. Do you guys think a Millermatic 135 will work or should I go with a higher 175 model. I like the portability of the 135. Thanx

-Josh

Same size, only different is 110 vs 220 plug in. I have both in my garage right now. If the 110 plug is what you were reffering to by "portability", then I'll shut up now. Except that the 175 doesn't seem to be rated any thicker metal than my 135. It just does the same thing with more eaze.

For what it's worth, my noob ass used strictly a Millermatic 135 110V MIG with .035 flux wire to weld my entire Jeep. It has held up great so far, 4 rough days in Moab and a nice pounding at a local Colorado trail, not to mention rallying through the fields and up the hills near my shop.
I should say that EVERY SINGLE bracket on the thing has been gusseted and reinfocred as much as possible to add strength. I keep the heat all the way up, keep the wire speed slow, and move the bead as slow as I have to for that particular thickness. I even double bead certain things I feel might need it.
I am no professional, just a slef taught idiot that has had a good bit of practice. At first sign of a cracked weld I am prepared to go back and redo anything with a bigger welder if I can find one. I check them often to be safe, but I have full confidence in all of it (and I mean the WHOLE Jeep was done this way)... for now.
If I had the money for a bigger welder or a placeto plug in a 220V source, I would have. But this is how I had to do it, and so far so good. If something goes wrong, well, live and learn.

This is a freebee for those that don't want to buy a welding manual. Armys' welding manual. Download and install on CD.
Here's the link:http://www.adtdl.army.mil/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/tc/9-237/toc.htm
This came up on a previous post, Tell me why I can't do this (welding)
Have fun, and good topic. Andy

Thanks for the free manual, but the link doesn't work. Can you fix it please, I'm very interested in checking it out.

you CAN weld 1/4" with under 150 amps, just has to be flux and not MIG. flux burns hotter than MIG, i can't weld 1/4" for SH*T (unless i really bevel it) with my 135amp lincoln mig. I have the tank, but use it for thinner stuff where cosmetics matter.

For everything else i use flux .035 wire, and it penetrates 1/4 very damn well. If you don't believe me i'd love to cut some 1/4 up and snap some pics after i weld it up. 1/4" is very doable with 110 volt at 135amps with flux cored wire.

I am looking for a good all purpose power source, I would like to do Aluminium with a Spool gun, MIG (without a spool gun), TIG, and Stick. Am I just dreaming of a multipurpose machine?

Thanks

They sure do. check out millerwelds.com under multiprocess. They get expensive though.

as for welding cast, i had to on my D44 swap. Just headed it up to around 350 i think it was (only marker i had) and hit it with with some ER70 and 75/25 shielded. Then cooled it down slowly. Turned out pretty nice and after Tellico confident it'll hold just fine.

I agree welding 4130 should be done with a TIG. I'm on Auburn's mini baja team and previous to the 04 car all the welding was done with a millermatic 175 on 4130 by some fairly inexperianced welders. all on 1.125x.058. Did hold up fine. but our 04 and new 05 car have all been done by a Miller synchrowave 180 SD. Which is a very nice machine even though its not inverterbased. We do do some aluminum but not much. all our tubing is 1.25x.049 for the frame. I've been tig welding for 2years and was tought by a welder at work of at least 20yrs.

This is my steering link done with the same 180 SD.

http://www.auburn.edu/~schmicj/images/Picture%20088.jpg

I agree that a 200amp welder SHOULD be used on most parts jeep related mainly for the abuse and fatigue the parts see. Our house has a 220v stick welder, which i learned on. Then a Hobart 135 flux cored (never really liked it) and when the drive motor burned up I talked dad into a Millermatic 210. VERY nice machine. Have used one previous to that so tahts why i recommended it. It'll probably end up doin my rollcage this summer hopefully.

And as always when learning. practice!


Now something REALLY cool is friction stir welding :smokin:

I use a Hobart 180 and it does anything and everything I need it to do. Unless I'm welding 1/4" I usually don't even turn it up to max :)

The little amount of TIG I've done really makes me want a TIG welder though, but alas I am now in a POS apartment and have lost my garage for the time being :flipoff:

good stuff here helped this weekend alot.

70's FSJ with a Q-trac T-case

And all CJ's??? :smokin:

I used a Lincoln SP 135 to weld my entire Jeep. Remember that MIG stands for Metal Inert Gas. Fluxcore is not mig. Mine will only weld to 10 ga. in mig mode. When I switch to fluxcore I can burn deep. When I welded my tube adapters to my links. I V'd them out and made three passes cleaning the slag after each pass. You can weld up to 5/16" with my little machine. You just gotta clean slag. I can't see why anyone buying a machine for the house can justify spending anymore unless you just got money to waste.

I learned to weld with gas and then went to stick in the early 80's. Thanks god for wirefeeders.

What kind of prep work do you need to do?
How do you lay a vertical bead?
How do you run an inverted bead?
Can you really build a rig with a 110V wire feed jobbie?

Grind off any paint, w/e you have to do to get to bare metal

Start at the bottom, do small increments of an inch or so at a time

Inverted, the same as the verticle

No, I hate MIGs. They're good for small shit and light metal, but the ARC welder at 90amps is where it's at! .120 wall, 75 amps.

Single shear is a single weld and attachment plate along the line of shear in a weldment. Double shear is two welds and two attachment plates along the line of shear in a weldment.

Example: your frame cracks and you cut a diamond shaped piece of plate and weld it on to the outside of the frame across the crack to repair it = single shear. Add another plate on the inside of the frame and weld it = double shear.

The advantage is that the strength of a double shear weld increases logarithmically over that of a single shear weld, which is to say double shear is not twice as strong, but many times as strong.

some welders you can reverse the neg to weld over head also thats if you got a nice welder

66CJdean said: "10)Anyone who tells you that you can weld chromoly with a mig tell them they are an Idiot. I can elaborate on this if needbe but just remember Don't do it."

Please elaborate. I've heard talk of this (only on PBB...dunno who started the rumor) but never facts.
Rubicon Express long arms and trac bars are chromoly and appear to be welded with mig and a sloppy job at that... I've never heard of a RE weld related failure. So what are we talking about here in strength loss...is mig welded chromoly still as strong as dom at the weld :confused: It seems like a lot of people have sucessfully welded chromoly with a mig including myself.

I just read about 20 web pages that mention welding chromoly. The preferred method is clearly TIG. Many racing sanctions disallow the use of mig welded chromoly frames. No where did I find facts stating that MIG welding chromoly wasn't safe or strong...just claims that TIG is more consistent with the heat yielding a stronger weld. I found numerous companies that manufacture go-kart frames, aircraft, bicycles and tons of automotive component companies using MIG to weld chromoly. So in sumation... TIG if you have it but MIG works fine....just focus on good penetration at the start of the weld when the material is still cold.

Clean Clean Clean you metal before welding. No matter what you are welding with, cleaning it will only improve you weld. Chemicals such as grease and oil will contaminate your weld, as will rust or any other dirt.

I can tell you what I was taught.
Light the torch and adjust the flame to neutral to very slightly carburizing.
With your writing hand take the torch and hold it using your thumb, index and middle finger. palm up or down wichever is more comfortable.
Start with a flat plate say about 1/8" thick and holding tip at about a 45 degree angle start a puddle off the edge of the plate. Once you have a puddle started begin making a small circular motion and move the puddle across the plate.
Practice doing this without adding welding rod until you can keep a straight and uniformed width "bead" across the center of the plate.
When you feel you're ready, try it with rod. Bring the rod in from the opposite direction (other hand :D ) at a 45 degree angle and "dip" the rod into the puddle. Don't forget that circular motion with the torch.
You'll be doing yourself a favor if you learn this basic first.
Later on, torch welding joints will be alot easier and less aggrivating.
I hope I helped.

Most of this will also apply to TIG welding (puddle control) TIG and torch welding are a lot alike. heat, fuse base metal, add fill rod

I run a heating (Brazing) torch for a living and was amazed at how similar it was to TIG

You can also weld (braze) copper, brass and steel all to each other with a torch ...not an every day need but it has its uses.

Multi process machines are high$$$ but I want one really bad!
I am looking at the miller XMT 304 at Cyberweld.com for a whopping $4276.00..... it is lot of money but it is a top of the line welder...and it will weld anything I would ever need to weld...lol

I have a problem of melting or blowing holes in the metal i am welding. I own a hobart 180 220v mig and when I increase wire it blows holes in the metal.
when i turn it down I get a tall bead and it looks like poor penetration. I know the metal I am welding is addequite for the welder 2x4 3/16 box steel
and I still blow holes. what am I doing wrong?

at least if you are blowing holes you are getting enough penetration and your welds will hold better than the guys welding a cage with a 110 glue gun... grind then reweld...

look on your welder for a guideline (starting point settings) for wire speed and heat, usualy inside the case where the wire spool is. adjust wire speed and travel speed until the bead looks right and you are getting full penetration.

practice on scrap and do distructive testing to see if what looks good breaks easily....the Idea is to fuse the 2 parts together by heating the parent materials (melting them together) it's not a glue gun so if you aren't somewhat close to blowing a hole it is probably too cold....

Whenever welding out of position remember to wear earplugs. It only takes one bit of slag to land in your ear canal where ya can hear it sizzeling to make ya appreciate this lil tip.:flipoff2:
correct i learnt the hard way
preforated ear drum

you CAN weld 1/4" with under 150 amps, just has to be flux and not MIG. flux burns hotter than MIG, i can't weld 1/4" for SH*T (unless i really bevel it) with my 135amp lincoln mig. I have the tank, but use it for thinner stuff where cosmetics matter.

For everything else i use flux .035 wire, and it penetrates 1/4 very damn well. If you don't believe me i'd love to cut some 1/4 up and snap some pics after i weld it up. 1/4" is very doable with 110 volt at 135amps with flux cored wire.
Not doubting at all, but I would like to se some pics. Also would like to see some pics of what 110 machines can do, and what 220 mig machines can do. some pics of penitration on both machines would be great.

Not doubting at all, but I would like to se some pics. Also would like to see some pics of what 110 machines can do, and what 220 mig machines can do. some pics of penitration on both machines would be great.

I guess by there being no responces, there isnt too much difference between a 140 and a 175 machine. I have a 220 welder and a 110 welder, I also understand the diference between the two but I just feel that most of you are underestamating a 135 or 140 machine!!!!

66CJdean said: "10)Anyone who tells you that you can weld chromoly with a mig tell them they are an Idiot. I can elaborate on this if needbe but just remember Don't do it."

Please elaborate. I've heard talk of this (only on PBB...dunno who started the rumor) but never facts.
Rubicon Express long arms and trac bars are chromoly and appear to be welded with mig and a sloppy job at that... I've never heard of a RE weld related failure. So what are we talking about here in strength loss...is mig welded chromoly still as strong as dom at the weld :confused: It seems like a lot of people have sucessfully welded chromoly with a mig including myself.
i have been involed in the metal trade for over 30 years
boiler maker 1class welder by trade
to call people a idiot for welding crom molly with a mig is not quite correct
it can be welded with a mig but it has to be a pulse mig:)
you are correct in saying a tig is the way to go this give the weld its purest form
the operator has the most control no cold lap at start by use of just arc at start to pre heat and form weld pool
the abilty to post heat and fill crater at end of weld

The Army Welding Manual is available here (http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/PDFs/US%20Army%20Welding%20Manual.pdf). I know this is an old thread, but it could still help someone. I have a skill level 1 & 2 training book, it can be used like a checklist when doing welds (for the noob)(1MB).

i have the hobart handler 135 works great even on 1/4 steel

so far ive made rockers and a rear swing out bumper.....

i did learn on a stick welder which i think has made me improve alot with the mig but with flux cord 1/4 is no problem and 3/16 with mig is no problem

Broken link! :(

Welding Cro-Mo is done with a MIG just fine, you need to use the right consumables. There are methods based on MIG that are a little more current than most of the average guys know about. I'll post some info tonight, got to go let the wife break her stuff today.:D

What do you ARC welders use on CAST?


Depends if its Cast IRON (ie; engine blocks/cylinder heads/exhaust manifolds)
or
Cast STEEL (ie; axle housings/center sections/factory cast control arms)

Cast iron is a bitch to weld & I would not recommend it for a novice
for welding cast iron use anything from silcon-bronze,stainless 316,99%nickel rod

Cast steel can be done with your standard rod, 6010,6011,7018 ect...

I have been welding with a 115 Volt Blue Pointe 120 Mig for a number of years. While far from the ideal welder. I have welded many sets of spring perches axle tabs etc... All with good results. With that said I am maniacle about weld prep & grounding, bevel surfaces when ever possible and stack beads per some wleding book I have.

However am thinking about upgrading. Here are my questions:
1. Would a 230 Volt 185 amp Lincoln mig (roughly $700) be noticably better and allow you to fill area's wear the two surfaces do not butt up together perfectly?

2. Should I really just by a Lincoln 230 Volt 185 Amp Stick welder for ($265). Would this set up be better at upside down welding or offer any real advantages over a higher amperage better mig? (I sure like the price)

3. What makes a $1200 plus Millermatic so much better than say a Hobart 185 Mig at $600? Is it all about duty cycle?

Great Topic!!

I am looking for a good all purpose power source, I would like to do Aluminium with a Spool gun, MIG (without a spool gun), TIG, and Stick. Am I just dreaming of a multipurpose machine?

Thanks

Lincoln 350mp
pulse on pulse mig is A MAZE ING

correct i learnt the hard way
preforated ear drum

Like wise.. I got it TWICE! Once with slag and the second time I was turning K-Monel in a Lathe with no-coolant and our LP Air Compressor was f*cked up... Needless to say, a hot-ass chip went straight into the inner ear... I heard the sizzle (Like pig fat in a pan)... Tried digging it out and pushed it further and I had white burn marks on the finger tip, it Didn't hurt in the ear until the next day... Now I cover up like a little school girl.... Nothing smells like Human Flesh burning but Human flesh.

Like wise.. I got it TWICE! Once with slag and the second time I was turning K-Monel in a Lathe with no-coolant and our LP Air Compressor was f*cked up... Needless to say, a hot-ass chip went straight into the inner ear... I heard the sizzle (Like pig fat in a pan)... Tried digging it out and pushed it further and I had white burn marks on the finger tip, it Didn't hurt in the ear until the next day... Now I cover up like a little school girl.... Nothing smells like Human Flesh burning but Human flesh.
OK I've been warned!!...I've heard the sizzle many times but have been lucky not to have any damage!...
I will heed your warning........

My company just got me a Miller synchrowave 250 TIG. and I have a couple of Jobs lined up for welding 316 stainless piping.I have some TIG experience and my own 300 amp tig for jeep uses and a fair amount of talent, but would like some input from experienced TIG operators (if there are any on board)...I have no-body to learn from(once again)..any in-put would be appreciated and others could benefit from this great topic.

BossBuilt get into a local college and take some welding courses. Proper welding can't be instructed over the internet. Take a course and you will be surprised at what you will learn. I started out as a "self instructed" welder many years ago and I thought I was a good welder. I took a class to learn how to TIG and boy did I get a wake up call. There was so many things I didn't know and bad habits I didn't know I had etc. I have since taken many courses in many different methods, and I can now say that I am a far better welder then I ever thought I was before.
What did you want to ask about TIG?

for overhead welding, use reverse polarity(stick/TIG)
and to know the setup you need go to millers website and find the calculator on there

BossBuilt get into a local college and take some welding courses. Proper welding can't be instructed over the internet. Take a course and you will be surprised at what you will learn. I started out as a "self instructed" welder many years ago and I thought I was a good welder. I took a class to learn how to TIG and boy did I get a wake up call. There was so many things I didn't know and bad habits I didn't know I had etc. I have since taken many courses in many different methods, and I can now say that I am a far better welder then I ever thought I was before.
What did you want to ask about TIG?
I wasn't looking to be schooled over the internet.... College :laughing: ...I'm 42 with A.D.D. and didn't like school when I was young and I'm sure I still won't.
Just looking for experienced incites in the TIG method....anything really...back-up gas application methods,improvised chill rings or ways that are quicker and cheaper to get the same affect,travel speeds,methods for welding out of position on fixed pipe...just hoping to spark some conversation on TIG welding since it's rarely brought up.

Welding boards are a great source for all type of tips, hints, processes, etc etc.

Welding boards are a great source for all type of tips, hints, processes, etc etc.Have one you could recommend?

The Army Welding Manual is available here (http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/PDFs/US%20Army%20Welding%20Manual.pdf). I know this is an old thread, but it could still help someone. I have a skill level 1 & 2 training book, it can be used like a checklist when doing welds (for the noob)(1MB).
WOW that's a huge file with a lot of great info. ....If you print it stock up on the Ink.Thanks for the link.
-Kerry

Here you go



http://www.hobartwelders.com/mboard/

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/index.php

http://www.weldingweb.com/[/QUOTE]

Here you go



http://www.hobartwelders.com/mboard/

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/index.php

http://www.weldingweb.com/
Thanks, I'll check them out.

not sure if i should post in such an old thread but might as well consolidate the information.

if someone was to run a smaller mig/flux welder at near max capacity how much faster would it kill the welder as opposed to running at say 50 percent capacity?

not sure if i should post in such an old thread but might as well consolidate the information.

if someone was to run a smaller mig/flux welder at near max capacity how much faster would it kill the welder as opposed to running at say 50 percent capacity?

Search Duty Cycle. unless you actually mean how many hours a machine can run at full output before it completely fails and is no longer usable compared to how many hours a machine will run at half the output. If that's the case it really depends on how you maintain the machine in each situation. If you understand and follow the Duty Cycle it will last alot longer than if you were to not pay attention and keep over heating the machine.

A small machine like your referring to will have about a 20% duty cycle. Meaning you can only safely run that machine at full output for 2 minutes out of 10. Now I may be wrong here... but, if your running your machine with 20% duty cycle at half the output, you should be able to run it for 4 minutes out of 10.
Now if its a machine with a 100% duty cycle weld all you want just make sure your letting your gun cool down so you don't burn it up.

unless you actually mean how many hours a machine can run at full output before it completely fails and is no longer usable compared to how many hours a machine will run at half the output. If that's the case it really depends on how you maintain the machine in each situation.

how its built plays a larger role in longevity of a machine, like if its made with copper winds it obviously last longer than aluminum but will have a lot more weight to it

Sometimes when i'm arc welding inserts in 2" x .250 wall links and more often when the thread size is closer to the tube ID, I have trouble with the threads warping. Atleast thats what i think happens. I know i can lower the heat but are there any other tricks i should try? I've tried welding with old wornout rodends in them but then you cant hardly get them out. Yes, Stick is all I have. 7018 is my favorite rod , maybe 7014 on steel thinner than .120 wall. On really thick stuff i start with 6010 root pass and go over with 7018s.

just chase the threads... it happens

how its built plays a larger role in longevity of a machine, like if its made with copper winds it obviously last longer than aluminum but will have a lot more weight to it

Very true.

i am by far not a pro...but i have continuously stuck 1/4 inch ogether with my promig140 running .035 flux core.
i just clean the livin hell out of everything, and sometimess i gouge with a grinder to bevel in certain areas.
i will be starting a cage here soon, and i will be using this thing as i go along....:grinpimp:cheers, brian

When welding with gas and your welds suddenly turn shitty & you can't figure out what's wrong, check that you're still getting good gas flow out of the nozzle.

I got really pissed off one day when my normally shitty welds turned even shittier than usual and figured I had run out of gas. Nope, the bottle was 3/4 full. I checked everything I could think of & couldn't figure it out & chalked it up to just being the shitty welder I am.

I finally turned the wire feeder off & after positioning the nozzle near my ear, I pulled the trigger to see if I could hear gas flowing out of the nozzle. Nope. The friggin' hose had pulled free of where it was supposed to be clamped into its holder inside the cabinet & gas was making it out into the cabinet & not into the hose. The o-ring on the fitting was sitting a good 1/2" out of the clamp.

Tighten that clamp again boys, don't let it pull free like it did on me. :homer:

Does anybody stick weld their cages? All I ever read about on here really is MIG or TIG welded cages and other stuff.

you can stick weld your cage and it will be strong if you are a good stick welder. it is just dificult because tubing is usually around 1/8 and it is easy to burn through with a stick welder

also the stick throw lots of spark and will tend to catch other things on fire plus there is alot of cleanup of slag and whatnot

Yea, I know that the slag cleanup sucks. I'm a pretty decent stick welder. I was just curious about it. Because I don't own a MIG. I'm a good TIG welder too, just...can't afford a TIG :laughing:

My buddy stick welds everything.He was a pipliner for a while though.So he has the experience.

My best friends dad is a journeyman. I'm not exactly sure what he welds, but I know he uses a stick welder. And ironically, my dad had the same exact Lincoln stick welder as my friends dad, so he has helped me out a LOT on my welding. I remember watching him weld up his own frame for his CJ-7 when I was 15, I was VERY intrigued by it at that age...

Any chance someone could post the Army welding link again I can't seem to get it to work.
Thanks

Whenever welding out of position remember to wear earplugs. It only takes one bit of slag to land in your ear canal where ya can hear it sizzeling to make ya appreciate this lil tip.:flipoff2:

oh God yes... I've been here... you feel like your brain is frying!

Any chance someone could post the Army welding link again I can't seem to get it to work.
Thanks

you can get it off Bill's page still I think he moved the hosted site since this thread was started in 02.