So we are playing with a 1996 Ford F-150 4WD. It is designed to spend most of its life in the desert playing with suspension components. It is not (as of yet) a hardcore prerunner, but it will see some whoops, jumping and general tomfoolery.

It may be time to get gears as the truck is incredibly slow currently. How strong is the 8.8 that is in it? I am more worried about bending than I am it failing due to horsepower. Will I be able to utilize this axle for a year or two, or do I need to find a 9" before I spend any energy upgrading the 8.8 on this thing? Thoughts?

They have been succesfully run for many years in Stock Full - add a truss and 9" housing ends(Drew/Goat1 or Currie Ent.); spool or Detroit Locker (Reider Racing :D ); Good gears (Precision Gear :D ); and Uber Cool Custom axles (Alloy USA :D ) and you're good to go!!






And I might know a guy who knows a guy who met a stripper who's old roomate used to race and met a guy that could help you with all that.:smokin:

And I might know a guy who knows a guy who met a stripper who's old roomate used to race and met a guy that could help you with all that.:smokin:


Is his name Ron :confused: :flipoff2:

They have been succesfully run for many years in Stock Full - add a truss and 9" housing ends(Drew/Goat1 or Currie Ent.); spool or Detroit Locker (Reider Racing :D ); Good gears (Precision Gear :D ); and Uber Cool Custom axles (Alloy USA :D ) and you're good to go!!


Thanks for the assist. I wanted to be sure that with a truss the housing was worth investing in the Reider Racing/Precision Gear/Alloy USA :smokin: parts before I looked for them. No sense in investing energy and resources into the housing if it was going to be substandard when completed.

I will discuss with Drew B this weekend at the Hammers.

And I might know a guy who knows a guy who met a stripper who's old roomate used to race and met a guy that could help you with all that

Sounds like a guy I knew that once told me I needed an axle sponsor. Also a guy that could use a tecate.

So we are playing with a 1996 Ford F-150 4WD. It is designed to spend most of its life in the desert playing with suspension components. It is not (as of yet) a hardcore prerunner, but it will see some whoops, jumping and general tomfoolery.

It may be time to get gears as the truck is incredibly slow currently. How strong is the 8.8 that is in it? I am more worried about bending than I am it failing due to horsepower. Will I be able to utilize this axle for a year or two, or do I need to find a 9" before I spend any energy upgrading the 8.8 on this thing? Thoughts?


I bet we could turn that beauty into one of these:cool2:

Of course a different shock co. hood decal :D

I like it. The color even works for me.

We will be putting seats, harnesses and a cage in it shortly. I still think it would need more than that to get where yours was.

Question,

What is the reason for changing the housing ends? I notice that parts are available for these in 28, 31 and 33 spline. I am assuming the truck uses 31 spline stock. It the different end to fit the larger shaft or is the factory 8.8 bearing crappy?

Question,

What is the reason for changing the housing ends? I notice that parts are available for these in 28, 31 and 33 spline. I am assuming the truck uses 31 spline stock. It the different end to fit the larger shaft or is the factory 8.8 bearing crappy?

While we do make our NEW Grande 88 Kit - 31 spline Chromo shafts for the 8.8 which are super strong - for your intended purpose and likely remote testing locations - the switch to 9" ends facilitate a 9" axle and bearing - not only better load capacity, but an axle you could find, make, scrounge from most any wrecking yard in the US and Mexico in an emergency. It also makes brake upgrades real simple.

I doubt you will ever break one - but with your driving history you may bend one :flipoff2:

JK

Also a guy that could use a tecate.
So right you are...I'm probably heading to Primm for the desert race this weekend - or maybe I'll just suprise you guys in JV bumming a Tecate:cool2:

Question,

What is the reason for changing the housing ends? I notice that parts are available for these in 28, 31 and 33 spline. I am assuming the truck uses 31 spline stock. It the different end to fit the larger shaft or is the factory 8.8 bearing crappy?

It's because the 8.8 is a c-clip axle. Reason there are so many c-clip eliminator kits--aka big bearing 9" housing ends--is because nhra rules don't allow cars running faster than 10.99 to have c-clip rearends. As you know, break a c clip axle--lose your tire. Plus, there are more choices for everything 9".

IMO....i would not waste any money in the 8.8

find a 9" and put your money in that. if you are going to be building the 8.8, why not just go 9"?

While we do make our NEW Grande 88 Kit - 31 spline Chromo shafts for the 8.8 which are super strong - for your intended purpose and likely remote testing locations - the switch to 9" ends facilitate a 9" axle and bearing - not only better load capacity, but an axle you could find, make, scrounge from most any wrecking yard in the US and Mexico in an emergency. It also makes brake upgrades real simple.

I doubt you will ever break one - but with your driving history you may bend one :flipoff2:

JK


It should be noted that the 88 kit will only work in Explorer axle housings, Ranger 8.8's are 28 spline and have a narrower housing. Full sized 8.8's well, obviously have a wider housing but you could cut it down fit the Grande 88 kit.

IMO....i would not waste any money in the 8.8

find a 9" and put your money in that. if you are going to be building the 8.8, why not just go 9"?

My thoughts, may be presuming...are he wanted to keep it legal for stock full if the build goes that way. Otherwise, I agree build the 9 (if the budget allows).

It should be noted that the 88 kit will only work in Explorer axle housings, Ranger 8.8's are 28 spline and have a narrower housing. Full sized 8.8's well, obviously have a wider housing but you could cut it down fit the Grande 88 kit.




We do make a semi-top secret full size version of the Grande 88 Kit for the F-150's...limited quantities:cool2:

Ooooh la la...I may know a few people interested in this:D

I'd be interested in the Grande 88 kit for the 150. :D I talked to "another company" about there Super88 and they said they had no plans to make a full width 88 kit :(

I forgot to give it to TuRD, but I've got a couple stock 9" third members you can have, if you decide to go 9"... I've got a feeling you will.

Oh and to answer the 8.8 question.

I spun the tubes in the center section and broke the yoke. And I didnt even go too big!

I found a new reason to build a 4x4 pre-runner. 50% more chance of being able to drive it home!

ps. Thanks for the help Jeff!

Pss. DILLIGAF!

Yes, so our 8.8 is dead. We are looking to replace it with a 9".

Frank, I've got a junkyard by me with an easy dozen 9"s in it for under a hundred bucks.Let me know.

The break, the resulting drivelike break, and the fix.

Well it is here and on the rack. Both tubes are twisted, the drivers side is coming out and the thing is rather v shaped.

I am doing some on-line investigating, and the F-150 had a 9" from 78-86. Is any of these years more or less desireable? I have read that there is early and late big bearing. Does this matter?

I know a little about 10 and 12 bolts, a little more about 60's and a bit about 44's. 9" are all new to me.

I have heard that the trucks always have the nodular center, true/not true?

ARe there any external indicators of shaft and bearing size or does it have to be torn apart to see?

I know a little about 10 and 12 bolts, a little more about 60's and a bit about 44's. 9" are all new to me.....


Don't lie! You were just here a couple of weekends ago. You know all about 9"!:flipoff2: (I couldn't help it, it was there!)

Your friends Jessie and Ian did a show all about different rearends this weekend. If only you would have seen that, you would know everything!

BTW, any pics of the speed bump TuRD hit to break that thing? And tell us the truth was it just driver error?! :flipoff2:

any pics of the speed bump TuRD hit to break that thing?

Yes

i heard he was trying to brakestand in front of the highschool when it happened...

We have located a bunch of 9" housings for Bronco's and F-150's. It appears that the F-150 from 80-86 will be our best bet. The Bronco also had the 9" in the 80's but it is/was somehow different. I am trying to figure out how it is different and if it is better/worse than the F-150 9"

Our 1996 8.8 FWIW is ~65" wide wms.

i heard he was trying to brakestand in front of the highschool when it happened...
I thought we agreed that was a secret :flipoff2:

Oh my bad, I thought the 3 freshmen you picked up afterwards were supposed to be the secret part...

whoops...

A little tech for those that still want it.

There are three different wheel bearings for a 9". Small, Large sealed and Large roller. The large roller bearing is the most desireable. The large sealed bearing was used in vehicles with a 3300lb gawr. The large roller was used in vehicles with a 3600 or 3700lb gawr. Large bearing should be 31 spline.

Small bearings can be identified by the backing plate bolts. They are 3/8" dia bolts with 9/16" heads. Large bearing axles have 7/16" bolts with 11/16" heads.

Nodular iron centers are most likely found F-150's with big block engines.

Also the F-150 almost always came with the large roller bearing. Bronco rearends are the ones that are not always consistant and may or may not be desireable.

Shafts are the same from 80 to 86 for the F-150.

Thanks to Goat1 and Racing Ron for the assistance. (Let me know if I truely fawked something up as I am doing this from memory)

Couple corrections there beat, 1st the shafts may be the same spline but they are not the same length from 74-86, i pulled about a half dozen shafts out trying to find the proper length that i needed, odd as it is, and there can be the odd 28spl 3rd in a truck as well, as that is what i needed for my truck in order to run the gears and trac unit from a merc car i obtained. A nodular centersection is easily identified by 2 vertical ribs in the third member (unless you are talking about the nodular iron that the cases are made out of, but the actual nodular 3rd's were more likely found in cars in the late 60's and seventies, and they were rarely found in trucks). the 2 different large bearing rears, one type was found in the 80's (the sealed unit, and they usually leak more than the bearing that uses a seperate seal) and the other in 70's, also the bearing type also determined if the axle was machined for a seal to run on it, and there is a difference, i can get pictures in about 2wks (next time i head back to farm), if someone so desires.

Couple corrections there beat, 1st the shafts may be the same spline but they are not the same length from 74-86, i pulled about a half dozen shafts out trying to find the proper length that i needed, odd as it is, and there can be the odd 28spl 3rd in a truck as well, as that is what i needed for my truck in order to run the gears and trac unit from a merc car i obtained. A nodular centersection is easily identified by 2 vertical ribs in the third member (unless you are talking about the nodular iron that the cases are made out of, but the actual nodular 3rd's were more likely found in cars in the late 60's and seventies, and they were rarely found in trucks). the 2 different large bearing rears, one type was found in the 80's (the sealed unit, and they usually leak more than the bearing that uses a seperate seal) and the other in 70's, also the bearing type also determined if the axle was machined for a seal to run on it, and there is a difference, i can get pictures in about 2wks (next time i head back to farm), if someone so desires.


Thank you. I wasn't real sure about the shafts and neither was the guy I spoke to.

Goat1 had a reference which said that the nodular iron centers were not particularly common in trucks, unless they were big block. (Is that more clear?) It did list a bunch of passenger cars to look at, but I forgot what they were.

A few 9" reference threads:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=473495

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38459

You've got about the same chances of finding a yenko camaro in a barn as you do of finding a nodular 3rd in a jy--especially for less than you can buy an aftermkt version for. The size tires you're running, the 3rd will never be a problem.

Oh my bad, I thought the 3 freshmen you picked up afterwards were supposed to be the secret part...

whoops...

Are you talking about the three freshmen BOYS that TuRD took on a "field trip"? :flipoff2:

Just kidding TuRD. We all know you wouldn't cheat on your Mormon Man! :D

Back on topic now: Beat, thanks for all that info. You're making a JY 9" look a bit more interesting. I still think it will be had to beat that certain D60. Let me know how you do on budget though, if you can.
Thanks!

:laughing: :flipoff2:

Yeah i have only ever heard of one nodular center section being found under a truck and i think that it had a windsor in it, but none theless you'll have better luck finding on underneath a car than a truck, and it would be easier to buy one new as they aren't a whole lot of money, and the shafts and bearings, well you really don't know what you have tilll you pull one apart

Well, I have come up with another issue with the nine inch swap. The vehicle speed sensor which controls the trans, speedo and abs is located on the rear end housing. There are some posts on RDC about adapting the original sensor to the new axle. Has anyone here done this and if so how did you do it?


Pull the diff cover on the 8.8 and locate the tone ring. It is located next to the ring gear.

Locate the magnetic sensor that is almost but not quite touching that tone ring.

All that is needed to retain the system when converting to a 9" system are those two components... or if you are creative JUST the magnetic sensor.

You can attach that sensor to almost any rotating object that turns when the rear wheels turn... easiest being the driveshaft, axleshaft, or ring gear/diff. The computer can sense speed by monitoring how quickly the teeth on that tone ring pass the sensor. All the magnet does is turn on and off really fast as those teeth pass it. If you are worried you'll F up your new housing you could mount a similar setup on the driveshaft. You can calculate the number of teeth needed for the new tone ring by first determining how many RPMS the current tone ring is turning at a given speed... and then after figuring out how many RPMs the driveshaft spins at that same speed, the diameter and teeth needed for the new tone ring. This ain't tough stuff to figure out and it still pisses me off that Currie doesn't get on the ball with this. I went through the same thing with them a few years ago... and considering how easy it would be to offer a "retrofit kit" it's a dumb move on their part not offering one.

I used to have pictures of an 8.8 tone ring installed in a 9" 3rd member. They were hosted on RDC and I think Klaus deleted them as time wore on. The tone ring was attached near the ring gear, a hole was cut and a bung was welded into the 3rd member, and everything worked like the factory intended it to.

Things to remember... The nice thing about locating the sensor in the 3rd member is the protection it provides. Anything magnetic in the dirt will end up attached to the magnet. In most cases it's not enough to hamper the "signal" but if you don't somehow shield it the poor thing might get torn off should you decide to go off course.


Thoughts? btw I have no issues removing the abs.

Check out post 42 and 45 for a tone ring relocator. Moves it to the t-case.

http://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73349&page=3

Gps.

E4OD requires the speed sensor to shift correctly. If it had a c4, c6 or manual valve body gps would be fine.

The tranny relocation kit for the VSS looks pretty cool. Like the RDC guy said though, just make sure you protect it. BTW, I have a transfer case out of an '86 Bronco if you want it. It has been completely rebuilt and never run......I also make it so that you can reclock the whole thing if you want to run it flat for more clearance. Remind me this weekend when you come up and I'll grab it for you.

Oh and DON'T let TuRD behind the wheel of this thing when it's done!! LOL

The tranny relocation kit for the VSS looks pretty cool. Like the RDC guy said though, just make sure you protect it.

Oh and DON'T let TuRD behind the wheel of this thing when it's done!! LOL

I really like the idea of that vss relocation kit. I would like to see a pic of it installed. I don't really know how much protection it needs. Dezert ride, not a rockcrawler. As long as it doesn't get rock flak or mud every where it should be ok.

I am actually kind of bummed as I wanted to take the f-150 for the long drive north. I have only put about 15 miles on it since we rebuilt the front end.

TRD (Wrecker, Braker) has been banished from the f-250 until he redeems himself.

A little more info on this. TRD called California Pre Fun today for information on the vss relocation kit.

It is $300 (no complaints regarding that) but it only works on the Bronco 1356 originally equipped with a yoke on the rear of the t-case. The slip yoke can be adapted but in rough terrain it may lose signal and the trans will shift extremely violently.

A little more info on this. TRD called California Pre Fun today for information on the vss relocation kit.

It is $300 (no complaints regarding that) but it only works on the Bronco 1356 originally equipped with a yoke on the rear of the t-case. The slip yoke can be adapted but in rough terrain it may lose signal and the trans will shift extremely violently.

Beat,

You don't want to have the VSS take a shiat on you - trust me - rented motorhome towing the Alloy Jeep and bikes at 65 when it downshifts to first...tank slappers on the freeway! VSS went out!

Let's build you a tough 8.8 to get you testing shocks - and we can work on a nine with some time. Whaddya think?

http://www.breaautoelectric.com/products/products1.html

????

Just found this one on another site.

Looks like it is on a slip yoke.

I'll call them tomorrow

Let's build you a tough 8.8 to get you testing shocks - and we can work on a nine with some time. Whaddya think?

Been thinking about that all day. I am thinking it will likely get me up and running quickly.

Currently the boys are testing in my Grand Cherokee. It didn't rattle when they started :rolleyes:

TRD do not crash my car tomorrow!!!!!

http://www.breaautoelectric.com/products/products1.html

????

Just found this one on another site.

Looks like it is on a slip yoke.

I'll call them tomorrow

Interesting. It is similar to the LeDuc kit. As he described though I wonder how well it will work on a rapidly cycling suspension. Either way get the info upon your return from Barstow. Hopefully it doesn't rain.:flipoff2:

Get some good pics.

weather channel.com says 10% chance of rain. So that mean who freakin knows what is going to happen.

Your jeep already rattels. The front driveline vibrates, the driver seat is loose, the rear axle howels and did I mention it rattles.

Good thing we have an f250 and a phili-can to tow it home.

I told you to take the damn trailer.:shaking:

That Jeep was mint before you left work today...Low miles, owned by a little old lady that only drove it to church on Sunday...no rattles, vibrations or dirt inside.

All that talking and nothing broke :flipoff2:

Guess Grand Cherokees are more durable than F-150's :flipoff2:

After talking about it and debating too much, we are going to build the strongest 8.8 we can. I will attempt in my spare time to build a 9" center with the vss adapted to it. Similar to these pics from rdc.

290589

290590

290591

Beat,

I just found an actual pic of the excitor ring on a carrier in my archive, Doesn't seem too difficult to modify a 9" carrier to accept the excitor ring and the hall effect sensor in the housing?

Foley

http://www.foleydevelopments.com/files/TroysTJ/welds3.jpg

we just relocated the tone ring for the vss on our prerunner to the driveshaft. ford ranger with a40d with 9". shifts perfect

Check this out...Home made tone ring for the back of the t-case. :cool2: Not mine though....

http://www.explorerforum.com/data/3500/ebrake_tonering_01.jpg

http://www.explorerforum.com/data/3500/ebrake_tonering_02.jpg


A shot of the tone ring welded to the BW-1354 output flange. The ring was made from an old Dana 44 carrier bearing race.

http://www.explorerforum.com/data/3500/ebrake_tonering_03.jpg


...and yes it works.. :D

Progress time:

Well we are tossing in an 8.8 with the same ratio as the old one as we need to spend some time in the dezert testing later this week. We did decide to beef it up a bit, including TRD's first attempt at a tig weave. The truss is my first attempt and TRD's second and it is a little taller than originally planned. I am hoping it is TRD Proof.

292844

292845

292846

292847

292848

I am not sure what we are doing on the bottom. Part of me wants to truss it end to end, but if we change the housing ends that could be a pain in the butt. We did order shafts, carrier and gears for the 8.8 today. We are using Alloy USA shafts, Precision gears and a Detroit all from Reider Racing. We will be changing the front gears when we regear the rear, but I think we will keep the front open.

Here is how it looked (except for a few welds) at the end of the day. Tomorrow we will decide what to do on the bottom.

292849

btw, the ugly guy in the red shirt is neither of us. Larry our plant manager saw us having fun and decided to crash the party.

292850

:flipoff2:

Breaking this one is going to be tough but I have faith in Frank. :flipoff2:

Between the Alloy Axles and Mastercraft seats this truck is ready for some serious testing. :flipoff2:

I think it is your turn Frank. :laughing:

I am hoping to load the trailer Thursday afternoon. :evil:

Are you guys welding beads with your sunglasses? Hahaha I hope you are at least using the safety squint! Make sure you guys run continuous beads or it will just fall apart as soon as it hits the pavement. My .02 is to not run the bottom trussed so the first time you guys go out and run it, you can come back and put a 9" in it because you bent the housing beyond recognition.

:D :laughing: :D

Are you guys welding beads with your sunglasses? Hahaha I hope you are at least using the safety squint!

:D :laughing: :D

Hey man, they are just tac's...:flipoff2:

Well, so long as it isn't tack, tack, tack..... .
Let's start a pool on how long that rear end will last in that beautiful red truck!
What are you guys doing for suspension?
If you build a 9" housing to the hilt, at least if you have gear problems you can run 10" R&P's from Currie as they will fit in your housing.

Well the supension is currently a bolt on Rancho kit. (it was a trailmaster and the truck was cracking the crossmember everywhere) I have not really driven it too much with the kit on it. The rear end blew up just before we had a chance to do anything with it. We would really like extended 4WD beams, deavers and glass for the truck, but that isn't in this years budget.

We will be doing some front end gusseting, and I think the next weak point will be radius arm bushings. TTB is all new to me so I am really willing to try a bit of everything.

The next big project will be an in cab cage. (I think open top vehicles are easier) we need to do some component testing (like a month ago) then we will have time to do a little more with the truck. That and we are going to add a vss to a 9" center section. "The backup plan" Realistically we need the truck to hold together for the next month or so, then we should have some time.

Ask TRD how it works, he has more seat time than I.

What thickness on the truss? 1/8"?

TRD looks fuzzy as usuall.:p

Kevo

I developed this new welding technique. Its called Tig Tacking... :flipoff2:

I wear a helmet, sweatshirt and gloves while welding. And usually while tacking. I happened to walk into that picture. I like my eye sight!

I think the rear end will last a while. We ended up way overkill on the truss.

It really needs a cage with seat mounts and harnesses. Hopefully that isnt too far away.

TRD didn't want to go with lightweight material. He was afraid he would break it again and the jokes would never stop :flipoff2:

It is .188 sides and top. Really it is because thats what the scrap we got from our neighbors was.

I'd be a little scared about the ring and pinion and bending the housing with that big of truck and going through the whoops with power and jumping it. Tell me when you guys are taking it out for testing, I'm hoping to have my pile running soon and don't wanna miss the carnage!
:D

It really needs a cage with seat mounts and harnesses. Hopefully that isnt too far away.

I think it would do just fine with a driver that knows the limits and the purpose of the vehicle! :flipoff2:

Looks good for a couple for beginners though! You're going to give Sandy a run for his money!:D

I'd be a little scared about the ring and pinion and bending the housing with that big of truck and going through the whoops with power and jumping it. Tell me when you guys are taking it out for testing, I'm hoping to have my pile running soon and don't wanna miss the carnage!
:D

I don't think that it will bend where it is trussed. Outside the truss probably, at some point. This truck isn't intended to be the fastest thing in the dezert, it just needs to be safe and reliable. I would bet that the truck doesn't make 300hp. Here is an old torque curve, from a truck with the same parts on it as ours.

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/manifolds/ds/images/93.gif

With 70k+ and 35's it sure doesn't feel like a rocket ship.

We tend (or TRD, cause he has gone without me the last few times) to head out early morning on weekdays. There tend to be less witnesses that way. :rolleyes:

Nice CPGoats sweatshirt! I recognized the sweatshirt before the jackass wearing it.:flipoff2:

You guys will find a way to break it, and it will provide way cooler pictures than the last one. Post up when you guys send that thing sticky bush diving through the desert.

Ian-

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/manifolds/ds/images/93.gif
What the heck is up with the units on that graph:confused: I hope those are Newton*Furlongs or something...:flipoff2:

Truss needs more triangulation...but other then that looks cool.

What the heck is up with the units on that graph:confused: I hope those are Newton*Furlongs or something...:flipoff2:


I think they are lb-ft of torque x10. (or divided by 10) How the hell do I know? I think marketing/advertising did it.

I think they are lb-ft of torque x10. (or divided by 10) How the hell do I know? I think marketing/advertising did it.
sure, just blame marketing. :flipoff2:

Triangulation of truss will begin shortly :D

Well, if peak torque is 35 ft. lbs. at 350 RPM and it starts rapidly dropping off from there I guess you guys won't have a problem! hahahahaha What's it got a go-kart engine? And I thought my 4.0 liter was lame.
:D

We had to de-tune the engine to a level where Frank couldnt break it :flipoff2:

Frank couldnt break it :flipoff2:

Bring it out to Pismo on Sunday, Rob, Kyle and I are gonna be suspension testing.

Are you done with your suspension?

Did the springs show up?

Bring it out to Pismo on Sunday, Rob, Kyle and I are gonna be suspension testing.

Ummm, How about no? Wrecker (Breaker, Raker?) will not be taking the truck out of my sight until we do what we need to.

If he takes the truck to SLO again, he might pull out of that same 7-11 parking lot and we will be hunting for a 9".:mad3:



























:flipoff2:

I think the rear end will last a while.


Just untill Frank gets behind the wheel.:laughing:



We had to de-tune the engine to a level where Frank couldnt break it :rolleyes:


The only thing you could do is put a 5hp Briggs with rockwells. Other wise Frank WILL break it.
It is never "if Frank can break it" it is "when Frank DOES break it". :flipoff2:

I forgot to give it to TuRD, but I've got a couple stock 9" third members you can have, if you decide to go 9"... I've got a feeling you will.
you can send one of them 9" chunks my way, ill even pay shipping......

looks like a fun build. bent/extended beams with some coilovers and some deavers and bypass's will be nice. had a buddy with a 96 caged front to rear with 6" extended beams with coilovers, 64" leafs with some smooth SAWs in back, 21" travel all the way around. that truck was a ton of fun in the dirt, good luck with your build

Speaking of 9" 3rds. Jeff, if you still have a spare can you bring it down next weekend?

Thanks!

ps. Truck is almost back together

So, post some pics of the build!

Well, it is finally back together.

Anybody want to trade deavers for some airbumps or coilovers? :p

A few have asked about pics of the whole truck. Here are a few.

New gears, lockers and axles are on the board for next week.

Then cage, bumpers and spare tire carrier.

Hey Frank,

Watch out for those 7-11 parking lots. I'd hate to see the truck broken so quickly after getting it fixed :flipoff2:

Looks like it is time for a 3/4 link with coilovers and bypasses for the rear.
:D

Hell, I was thinking Deavers instead of the crappy stock springs that are in it. I just have spare bumps and shocks to trade...:grinpimp: (Plumbing?)

Actually today was the first chance I have had to drive it since we redid the suspension from the original traildisaster lift kit. It is stiff. It doesn't move at all around town (It was valved for bottoming resistance) I hit large amplitude single cycle events almost as fast as I want and it takes it. It is a bit harsh on square edge small amplitude events. I am thinking it may go out friday to Barstow, as long as we can fit it in to the schedule.

I need to buy a damn video camera.

bit harsh on square edge small amplitude events.

for those that dont speak engineer. This means: it rode like shit when i hit curbs strait on. haha. probably not funny im just bored.

Frank
when you say that you valved it for bottoming resistance what specifcly does that mean? I am assuming that you do not have a position sensitive shock. Does this refer to the overall stifness of the valving, or due to the velocity profile of the valve stack? ie it has a long slope so that it gets extremely stiff at high velocities. if this doesnt make sense i will try and reword it, im no shock expert.

Ian-

Frank
when you say that you valved it for bottoming resistance what specifcly does that mean? I am assuming that you do not have a position sensitive shock. Does this refer to the overall stifness of the valving, or due to the velocity profile of the valve stack? ie it has a long slope so that it gets extremely stiff at high velocities. if this doesnt make sense i will try and reword it, im no shock expert.

Ian-

Ian,

You basically have it. Lots of compression. Stiff at high velocities. So that when it gets launched it doen't bottom. It doesn't take anything less than a full throttle big kill attack well.

The compression curves are slightly progressive. We originally had a huge add a leaf in the rear and when we transitioned to it, all hell broke loose. I was actually trying to keep the truck from hitting it (hard and fast) We have a much more moderate add a leaf in it now, which isn't as bad.

But in all fairness to the truck I am making the valving changes in Barstow with the shocks at temp. That is a much different valve code than I would come up with driving on the 405 to and from the office.

So are you ready for spring break yet? :beer:

Almost ready, one more final then its time for some brew. Although i wish i was beating the crap out of a truck in the desert, but i think it will be time for me to put in some hours with the grinder.

I am begining to get it. It seems there is a lot of voodoo engineering behind valving. Not that it isnt scientific, but it is just trial and error. Although it would be nice if companies (like fox) produced a dyno chart for each one of there rated valvings. I know this would not mean much because every vehical and driver is different but at least you could see where in the curve the greatest change is, to know which end of the spectrum is change rather than just thinking of it as stiffer.

So you say with the stiff compression that you are running, it rides like crap on anything but the nasty. What about gentle rollers, like a wallowing freeway? Shouldnt that be such a small velocity that it is hardly affected no matter what the valving?

I did not mean to hijack your thread, but this isnt too far off topic. Actually it has nothing to do with 8.8 rear ends, so its pretty far off.

Ian-

So you say with the stiff compression that you are running, it rides like crap on anything but the nasty. What about gentle rollers, like a wallowing freeway? Shouldnt that be such a small velocity that it is hardly affected no matter what the valving?



Because we are running low bleed in the shocks it is tight there also. I could add more bleed and reduce the low speed damping, but then the disc would have to catch up later to get me the high speed damping I am after.

Valving is not black magic or voodoo. It will only be as good as the person that tunes the vehicle though. If you have a bad feel for what your truck is doing, get help. Practice, practice, practice. Dyno's make the process much more efficient.

(btw, there are few "shock experts" out there. most days I say I am just knowledgeable. trying to understand is what matters)

hijack off.

Well, it is finally back together.

Anybody want to trade deavers for some airbumps or coilovers? :p

Damn! That is a nice rearend you got there! You must work out! :D


Hey when you guys are done with that truck I'll take it!! BTW, are you bringing it up here to cage it or are you going to do it down there? In all sincerity the rear end did come out pretty darn nice!

Where's the video of testing? We are heading out Friday to prerun some of the course (with the sandcar) they are doing this weekend. Bring out the truck. I wanna see that pig fly!
:D :laughing: :D

Actually they took the truck out today. (stupid work kept me at the office) Believe it or not, it survived TRD's driving apparently without any damage. We do need to work on the cage as the stock seatbelts are highly ineffective with the 3g's. Harnesses are rapidly becoming a must.

I was hoping to go to Barstow on sat for the race, but it looks like I will still be in TJ EJS prep mode.

Oh and there is a clean stock truck identical to this one for sale around the corner from my house if anyone is interested. Same color and all.

The Rancho kit worked surprisingly well. The rear still needs some work. But it didnt matter with the 3g's. They held you in no matter what the truck was doing.

Frank actually broke something (Transmission Mount????) on tuesday.

I managed to test the shit out of some shocks without finishing what Frank started :flipoff2:

Cage is very necessary!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Rancho kit worked surprisingly well. The rear still needs some work. But it didnt matter with the 3g's. They held you in no matter what the truck was doing.



Were you and Jesus in the same truck? Maybe he couldn't touch the floor?


:flipoff2:

He was complaining. Said he kept hitting the roof. That has to be like 3ft above him.

The Rancho kit worked surprisingly well. The rear still needs some work. But it didnt matter with the 3g's. They held you in no matter what the truck was doing.


Yeah, I think we need real springs in the rear. The add a leaf is too far from the rest of the pack.

Yeah, I think we need real springs in the rear. The add a leaf is too far from the rest of the pack.

I think you'd be surprised how well stock springs work. I know this guy that used to work for this company and he spent a few months testing all kinds of springs. I know most after market springs claim to be progressive, but most are actually digressive in rate. Just an FYI. With that being said, I still haven't ridden in a truck that rode as nice as my '02 F-150 with a set of Deavers in the rear. :smokin:

The Rancho add a leaf is negatively effecting our ride (I am thinking) but it keeps the rear level (I HATE SoCal trucks with low rears and lifted fronts, Bro)

The Rancho add a leaf is negatively effecting our ride (I am thinking) but it keeps the rear level (I HATE SoCal trucks with low rears and lifted fronts, Bro)

I agree that an ass low truck (when it's really low) looks funny. I was just throwing out the fact that most after market springs claim to be progressive (and they aren't) and that the stock springs have a great design if the height works for you. I didn't know if the little bit of info may or may not help your testing. Have fun at EJS, by the way. Don't scratch the new bumpers or cage!!!!!! :flipoff2:

Keep building.. Im diggin that truck guys!
Scott

A little tech for those that still want it.

There are three different wheel bearings for a 9". Small, Large sealed and Large roller. The large roller bearing is the most desireable. The large sealed bearing was used in vehicles with a 3300lb gawr. The large roller was used in vehicles with a 3600 or 3700lb gawr. Large bearing should be 31 spline.

Small bearings can be identified by the backing plate bolts. They are 3/8" dia bolts with 9/16" heads. Large bearing axles have 7/16" bolts with 11/16" heads.

Nodular iron centers are most likely found F-150's with big block engines.

Also the F-150 almost always came with the large roller bearing. Bronco rearends are the ones that are not always consistant and may or may not be desireable.

Shafts are the same from 80 to 86 for the F-150.

Thanks to Goat1 and Racing Ron for the assistance. (Let me know if I truely fawked something up as I am doing this from memory)


there is such thing as a big bearing/small bolt 9". mine is out of an '86 bronco. it has the big roller bearing and 3/8" bolts.

Thanks for the input 300sniper.

Well we dropped the truck off today. By next week we will have a detroit, 4.56 precision gears and alloy usa axles. I soooo need to get to the dezert with this.

The axles, gears and locker are :smokin:

But now it is bumper time.

pm Beat95yj if you want more pics :flipoff2:

The paintjob on that truss and axle housing is absolutly stunning. The install also looks clean as hell.

The bumper bends look perfect but the welds are OK I guess.

Much props to the guy(s) that did the work!

PM TRD for all your custom bumper needs.

Mr. Sauce

I think you need to look in the "Are you a Bro" thread, you will find it much easier to up your post count there. And if your lucky a date with TRD. :flipoff2:



Ian-

Mr. Sauce

I think you need to look in the "Are you a Bro" thread, you will find it much easier to up your post count there. And if your lucky a date with TRD. :flipoff2:



Ian-

That fucking jew makes the chicks pay for him on his dates. No thanks! :flipoff2:

Updated pics. The rear bumper and front lightbar turned out damn nice.

Truck looks good, it just needs center caps in the wheels to finish it off:flipoff2:

Lost em. :flipoff2:

btw, I found a pic of the truck as it was when we started with it. The only thing you can't see here is the hideous front bumper/winch mount. :barf:

Frank,

That truck is cool. Looks like it could be some fun once you guys dial in the rear springs.

Is that yours or the jobs?

Scott

Updated pics. The rear bumper and front lightbar turned out damn nice.

Why didn't you goons take the transfer tape off the windshield banner? http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/fighting/fighting0029.gif


Enough of the outside shots, let's see some pictures of the cage.

Frank,

That truck is cool. Looks like it could be some fun once you guys dial in the rear springs.

Is that yours or the jobs?

Scott


The Job. We got it for testing. Originally they wanted us to use our 03 F-250, but it is too nice a truck to beat on. Also we have a dedicated test truck this way. No need to worry about it needing to tow a trailer to an event, or otherwise being double booked.

The Job. We got it for testing. Originally they wanted us to use our 03 F-250, but it is too nice a truck to beat on. Also we have a dedicated test truck this way. No need to worry about it needing to tow a trailer to an event, or otherwise being double booked.

Nice...

Too bad you couldn't have taken that to Baja:D

Unfortunately the man that makes those decisions went on vacation before I decided to go, or it is likely we would have taken it. Next time fo sho!:grinpimp:


Also the truck was being prepped for the 4Wheel Parts Ontario show this weekend. Lots of cleaning would have been required.

Also the truck was being prepped for the 4Wheel Parts Ontario show this weekend. Lots of cleaning would have been required.

I am still digging Baja silt out of my ears:D:D

That fucking jew makes the chicks pay for him on his dates.



...only if they're a snagletooth!

...only if they're a snagletooth!

:laughing: :flipoff2: http://www.polygoats.com/images/smiles/banana.gif

pm Beat95yj if you want more pics :flipoff2: :ogre:

Another thread concerning 9" swaps and vss

http://www.desertrides.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3130

Maybe do it up 909 prerunner style?
Nice job otherwise

Yeah, we are going to cut it, we need to get a decent body saw as they seem to cut nicer than a cutoff wheel which is what we have now.

I must have missed it, but what is the tire/wheels/lift combination? That stance is perfect! :smokin:

Yeah, we are going to cut it, we need to get a decent body saw as they seem to cut nicer than a cutoff wheel which is what we have now.

I've got a better idea. Why don't you just give the truck away to some punk kid that wants to play a stupid prank? :flipoff2:

I must have missed it, but what is the tire/wheels/lift combination? That stance is perfect! :smokin:

Mickey Thompson 17x9" Classic 2's with 4.5" backspacing and Mickey Thompson Baja ATZ tires 315/70-17 (35" tall approximately)

Lift is a 4" Rancho kit with Rancho extended radius arms.

I've got a better idea. Why don't you just give the truck away to some punk kid that wants to play a stupid prank? :flipoff2:

Or I could let you drive it :flipoff2: After all you are a punk kid...

Well, it was time for more mods.

The rear springs on the truck were horrible, so we put in a set of 2 1/2 ProComp lift springs. As an added bonus we were able to get rid of the lift blocks. Hopefully a lot of the wrap issues will be gone.

Unfortunately we could not leave well enough alone and we also decided to make some other mods.

Uh-Oh what happened to that sweet truss? :eek:

Actually we decided to cycle the suspension with the new springs to ensure that we knew exactly where the bumpstops needed to be.

And...since we were playing with bumps, we had 2 choices. We could make them the same way they are on our SuperDuty (Really tall spacers for the stockers) or we could put some airbumps on it. As it turns out 2.5 stroke bumpstops fit under the bed with the spring dead flat. Here are some pics.

TRD and 909Rob (interns get the best names) did some nice work.

314595

314596

314597

If needed, I'll get some better pics on Monday as I will be away from the truck until then.

So, why the procomp springs? I take it they are lift springs so my first thought would be that they are stiffer than stock as the leaves look pretty thick, maybe they are softer than the Rancho though? Who's bumps are you using and what is the striker made from? Have you tried it out on curbs, or should I say large amplitude single cycle events, yet? hahahaha

The ProComps were within our operating budget. I really wanted to get a set of Deaver F64 springs (which look to be discontinued on their site?) with extended shackles, but these were within our operating budget. I promise that we will in fact test them hard, and good, bad or ugly we will report back. We may still build some shackles for the truck as it seems that the shackles may be the droop limiter.

I am not too concerned about the spring rate yet as the oe stuff was too soft until the add a leaf kicked in. Also we were running a huge amount of compression for bottoming resistance. Hopefully we will be better off now.

I could tell you about the bumps...but then I'd have to kill you.:flipoff2: They currently have an aluminum striker. We may switch to delrin depending on how this holds up, and the noise level.

Oh and it is still on the rack. TRD gets to drive it tomorrow as I am off.

So far there appears to be a lot of up travel from ride height before the striker will hit. I dont predict noise being an issue.

Maybe I will cruise it over to the 7-11 tomorrow for testing :flipoff2:

909 rob...nice....dgaf...

Some pics from recent dezert trips.

The ProComp springs were much better than the oe's with the Rancho aal. As suspected we can definately drop compression and add some rebound in the rear. Revalve to follow. The truck has about 7 1/2" of uptravel in the rear and 3" of droop which makes it look a bit funny running down the trail. Rear tires are coming off the ground more than I would really like. More droop would be special.

The airbumps are cool though.

Took the truck to Barstow this weekend. Had a great time. The truck took a beating like I never imagined it could. It straight took everything we threw at it.

We put a few small cracks in the frame where we had repaired prior damage. Time to make it stronger. Also we killed an axle seal and some brake pads. Other than that, no issues and it drove to and from the dez.

I really need to figure out how to get a set of Deavers and shackles on this beast. After running the Deavers on my F100, it must be done.

Pics to follow, I didn't shoot them this time as I was driving.

Here are my favorite pics from this trip to Barstow.

Gordon ain't got nuttin' on u.
:D

Gordon ain't got nuttin' on u.
:D

:grinpimp:

Oh and for those checking on the 8.8 we did have an outer axle seal fail. The axle has around 3k miles on it since it received its gears and locker.

We pulled both shafts and the cover. The Alloy USA shafts, Precision Gears and Detroit look fine. No metal in the fluid either. (It was a touch dark though.

Inspecting fluids is always best done in the dark. I follow this bit religiously and I've never noticed a problem.
:laughing:

ghaaaad i keep coming back to this thread, that truck is beautiful!!!

Keep us updated on that 8.8...

How are the Pro Comp springs holding their lift? I have blown thru many Pro Comp springs on my Toyota. With only 5 inch compression I have lost 2.5" of lift
within 2 hours of unloading the truck at Pismo lol! With continued more conservative use (rock crawling mostly) the springs will sag to a lower than stock spring height!

Jason :)

So far no issues with the springs. The airbumps are set so that the springs do not go negative however.

They aren't as compliant and don't offer as much travel as a Deaver or National, but then again they were much less expensive also.

How about an update?

Nothing new to report. I have been busy with other projects. This thing is just trucking along. No issues lately.

Found an old video from August and thought I'd post it. Crappy quality as it is from a camera, also it is after I backed off the throttle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkOJUhj_b5E

Where are the pictures of you wrecking the truck?

Or at least post-wrecked pics?

Truck is currently apart on the rack. We haven't even washed it since TDS. Once the front suspension is back on we will wash it and shoot new photo's then some video.

There is a photo of the truck at TDS in the new 4Wheel & Offroad. Here is a video from that trip also.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qL7kiNVN9nY

There is a photo of the truck at TDS in the new 4Wheel & Offroad. Here is a video from that trip also.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qL7kiNVN9nY

Frank,

seems like a lot of work to go all nascar on us...

I thought I'd see video of some air maybe????

Eric says let him drive....

There is some video of it flying, unfortunately the camera that it is on is broken...:shaking:

According to witnesses I was doing my Drew B impersonation.

Been following this thread also. Mainly for the 8.8.

Question,
When you added the gears/locker/shafts why not a set of Mark Williams main caps ?

You mentioned trussing the lower portion of the case. Perhaps a LPW thick girdled cover would be a thought ?

Both the MW caps (with studs instead of bolts) and the LPW cover will add a lot of strength (stiffness) to the housing. In addition reducing ring/pinion deflection. Which is often the main reason for shedding teeth.

Just wondering........

Honestly, breaking ring and pinions is low on my list of fears for this thing. I am more concerned with the housing itself. The 8.8 ring gear seems to be pretty stout. Every complaint I have heard concerns the tube to third member joint and the c-clips. The only other thing I really considered doing was putting 9" housing ends on it to eliminate the c-clips.

If I start breaking ring and pinions then I will think about the caps, studs and diff with preload bolts.

Racing Ron might have more input on strength of the center section as he is one of the people that helped me with this plan. Also he knows much more about differentials and axles than I.

Next step is to cast my own big bearing center with a tone ring hole for a 9" :rolleyes: just kidding, probably...

Honestly, breaking ring and pinions is low on my list of fears for this thing. I am more concerned with the housing itself. The 8.8 ring gear seems to be pretty stout. Every complaint I have heard concerns the tube to third member joint and the c-clips. The only other thing I really considered doing was putting 9" housing ends on it to eliminate the c-clips.

If I start breaking ring and pinions then I will think about the caps, studs and diff with preload bolts.

Racing Ron might have more input on strength of the center section as he is one of the people that helped me with this plan. Also he knows much more about differentials and axles than I.

Next step is to cast my own big bearing center with a tone ring hole for a 9" :rolleyes: just kidding, probably...


You can tell what direction I have gone. :D
Did do the 9 inch ends and got rid of the clips. All good stuff.

IMHO the 8.8 with a few mods is well worth looking into over the typical D60 swap. While I am not about to say that the 8.8 is as strong. But when you factor the weight differences and ground clearance advantage of the 8.8. It bears a bit more credit then most give it.

With the spring and shock valving you are doing. I am sure you understand what I mean by weight advantage.

Be curious what Racing Ron has to say.

Casting your own `eh ? Sounds like a EZ Wider commerical:flipoff2::D

Update:

This Ford was used to Chase for 1473 at the MDR California 200 this weekend. It worked well and took more abuse than a truck this stock should. Took it around the rockpile main loop a few times before the race, went to the rock pile down the access road a few times during the race and helped me get lost as all hell looking for Pit A. Talk about scenic detours.

The casulty was the stock rear spare tire carrier, it fell off during the night and was dragged across the desert some distance. A bed mounted tire carrier is in the works. Perhaps a low profile chase rack? Still thinking on that.

FWIW if you think you can mount a 540c with 2 sided adhesive and hit whoops, you'd be wrong.:shaking:

Sorry no pics this time. Truck did look cool going up main, or so I heard...

But, what every happened to this thing? It has to be my fav F-150 of all time!

It is still at Edelbrock, however I no longer work. It had the motor freshend last I heard.