Dial indicators and other diff building tools...what/where to buy?

[Arya Ebrahimi]

Looking to acquire some tools for building diffs. I'm going to be building a 9" diff for my uncle, and will undoubtedly have some future diff work for myself as well. I've done some diff work in the past, but always with other people's tools.

I'd like to buy a dial indicator with magnetic base, a few clamshells for pulling bearings, and maybe a 3-jaw puller.

Do you guys have any suggestions on brands, models, or any other specifics I should look for?

Anywhere in particular to buy these? Ebay? Tool truck?

My uncle's paying as compensation for the work, and I believe in buying quality tools the first time, but I don't want to take advantage at the same time.

Also I need a quality torque wrench as mine is a $20 Advance Auto special, but I will search on that as I know there have been other threads.

Oh, one more thing, do you guys see a problem using an in-lbs deflection style torque wrench(i.e. not the click kind) for measuring pinion preload?

Thanks,

Ary

[mikeCJ-7]

There are quite a few online retailers for diff tools. Complete offroad, and Randy's Ring and pinion are a few that come to mind.

As for the bearing preload using a click style wrench would be wrong. You will not be able to measure the preload appropriatley. Just use the deflection style and make a few turns and you can tell exactly where the preload is.

As for the jaw pullers, I have set up quite a few diffs and I have never bought them. I just run my stuff down to the local shop and they pull the old ones off for me for little or no money. I then use set up bearings to finish the job.

[Arya Ebrahimi]

There are quite a few online retailers for diff tools. Complete offroad, and Randy's Ring and pinion are a few that come to mind.

I knew about the tools Randy sells, but there are no prices or pics on the website, so I didn't know what to think of them. I will check out complete offroad.

As for the bearing preload using a click style wrench would be wrong. You will not be able to measure the preload appropriatley. Just use the deflection style and make a few turns and you can tell exactly where the preload is.

Right, I was asking about using the deflection type, not the click kind. The type where there's a small rod and a gauge at the handle end.

This kind:
http://s7.sears.com/is/image/Sears/00944978000

As for the jaw pullers, I have set up quite a few diffs and I have never bought them. I just run my stuff down to the local shop and they pull the old ones off for me for little or no money. I then use set up bearings to finish the job.

My shop is about 20 miles from the closest "local shop," so I'd like to have everything I need on hand.

Thanks for the input.

Ary

[Azzy2000]

I have the randys clamshell bearing puller setup , and it is great if you plan to do gear setups often. It is not cheap , but it is well built and will last forever if you take care of it. You can use a 2 jaw puller to pull carrier bearings , but they dont always work that great and you have a better chance of screwing up the carrier bearing with them.

For pulling pinion bearings I use a large bearing splitter on a press. I use the largest one that MAC sells and it fits in the press nicely.

You need a deflecting beam torque wrench for measuring pinion bearing preload , not a click type. Mine is small , 1/4" drive. Got it from Randys also IIRC.

I also beleive in buying quality tools , because I know they will last as long as I take care of them.. My dial calipers are Starret , and cost about 130.00 new. Most of my other micrometers and gauges and bases are 40 yr old hand me downs from my grandfather. Mitutoyo is another quality manufacturer.

You can get all these tools in an import version for cheap... real cheap. Like 16 dollars for dial calipers. Who knows how long theyll last or how accurate they are though. I wouldnt expect them to last too long under regular use.

Hope this helps.

[loveshackle]

Believe you can get the dial indicator from powerhouse tools. They've got nice stuff.

As for pulling & installing bearings, I would pony up and get a press & a good bearing splitter. I have the OTC 1 ton & smaller bearing splitter & it's great. Most good quality tool places have 'em. Also have seen 'em on eBay. As for a press, I just picked up a 25 ton unit at King Tools for under $400. Love it! Have used it to do everything on a HP D44 & 9" this week & it's great. Also make some dies so I can use it as a brake for brackets up to 3/16" (maybe more). Great investment!

[Arya Ebrahimi]

I have a press(20ton HF) and I guess I'm using the wrong term. What you guys are calling a bearing splitter is what I always called clamshell.

Ary

[BumpyDodge]

The only tool on your wish-list that's a bit tricky to find is that in/lb beam torque wrench. 20-30 in/lbs is literally a "one finger" torque. As already mentioned, you want the beam type.

All of the ring and pinion vendors seem to sell the same one - it's either made by K-D or S-K (Pretty sure it's K-D, but can't remember - it's been discussed before on this board).

For a nice beam type (new,not eBay) at a nice price I would order a Park Tools TW-1 (0-60 in/lb). They run about $30-35. Park is the "snap-on" of bicycle tools - they make decent stuff. Bicycle mechanics use in/lbs far more frequently than auto mechanics, so they need a decent tool. I bought some Park wrenches for my mountain bike and I'm very happy with them. If you really want killer accuracy in the teensy-torque range, and you have $1100 to blow on a tool you'll probably only use a couple of times - get a Snap-On electrotork. Armstrong makes a dial-type in the bitty in/lb range that I have used, but even that will cost you $150.

The only automotive use I could ever think of for an in/lb torque wrench besides pinion preload was torquing Ro(tten)chester carb top screws. The #1 killer of Quadrajets IMO is overtorquing - it warps the tops and they never seem to work right again. Manual says something like 15 in/lb. - Nobody ever follows it.

Freebie tool-
Cleanliness is paramount in setting up gears - one stray piece of grit in a shim stack will screw all your readings. A rubber truck mudflap makes a really nice work surface when you're clunking gears & carriers around on the bench/floor - and they're washable too. If you get the generic kind that has the "arrow shapes" molded in, they will catch oil drips and keep small parts from rolling off the bench too. Scrounge one up from somewhere if you can.

[Arya Ebrahimi]

BumpyDodge, thanks for the very helpful post!

The mudflap tip is a good one. I'm also going to be building a 3rd member holder similar to the one ZUK on this forum uses. Seems like a great way to hold a 3rd member easily and conveniently. I figure most of my gear work will be on 8"s and 9"s, so I can justify the trouble of making the holder.

Ary

[sha_ba_do_bang]

The only automotive use I could ever think of for an in/lb torque wrench besides pinion preload was torquing Ro(tten)chester carb top screws. The #1 killer of Quadrajets IMO is overtorquing - it warps the tops and they never seem to work right again. Manual says something like 15 in/lb. - Nobody ever follows it.


thats the only one you can thing of?
How about every transmission valve body bolt as well as some pump bolts. Timing cover bolts, water pumps, there are many other inch lb applications

I have also removed carrier bearings by cutting of the cage and then simply using an air hammer to drive the inner bearing race off. You have to have a certain degree of skill, but it is definatly the easiest and fastest way ImHO


Brendan

[SirMrManGuy]

For a nice beam type (new,not eBay) at a nice price I would order a Park Tools TW-1 (0-60 in/lb). They run about $30-35. Park is the "snap-on" of bicycle tools - they make decent stuff. Bicycle mechanics use in/lbs far more frequently than auto mechanics, so they need a decent tool. I bought some Park wrenches for my mountain bike and I'm very happy with them. If you really want killer accuracy in the teensy-torque range, and you have $1100 to blow on a tool you'll probably only use a couple of times - get a Snap-On electrotork. Armstrong makes a dial-type in the bitty in/lb range that I have used, but even that will cost you $150.

Only thing im gonna correct you on, park is the craftsman of bike tools, campagnolo is the snap on. :flipoff2: (former bike mechanic)

Arya Ebrahimi - look at McMasterCarr/MSC for calipers, dial indicators etc. Starrett and Mitutoyo are the big names. Make sure you get a plunger style indicator, lever style (test) indicators, arent great for gear setups.

[Arya Ebrahimi]

Here's a simple question for ya. How do you measure pinion preload with a 1/4" drive torque wrench? Use adapters to get up to the proper drive size to fit the appropriate socket?

Ary

[FFRubicon]

Here's a simple question for ya. How do you measure pinion preload with a 1/4" drive torque wrench? Use adapters to get up to the proper drive size to fit the appropriate socket?

Ary

Yea, that's what I've always done.

[solarpower]

I wold also get a cheaper plunge style indicator. the mag base is going to fall, and it will land on the indicator, I promise.

or you can spend 100 bucks on a noga mag base, and 200 more on a starret plunge indicator.....and still knock it off yourself.

I'd get these for what you are going to do:

indicator (http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMPXNO=2079644&PMT4NO=18298317)

if you do a little searching there you might even find a deal on a mag base w/indicator for less than getting them individually. Their flyers have them for less than 50 bucks IIRC.

[sha_ba_do_bang]

just look on ebay, i scored a snapon torquometer dial inch pound wrench, 3/8" drive from 0-50- ft lbs for like $60

That adapter thing is stupid, get a 3/8" one,

Brendan

[BumpyDodge]

thats the only one you can thing of?
How about every transmission valve body bolt as well as some pump bolts. Timing cover bolts, water pumps, there are many other inch lb applications

I have also removed carrier bearings by cutting of the cage and then simply using an air hammer to drive the inner bearing race off. You have to have a certain degree of skill, but it is definatly the easiest and fastest way ImHO


Brendan

Let me rephrase: "A Rochester carb to is the only other thing I would bother using a torque wrench on that is in the UNDER 60 in/lbs range. Happy? :flipoff2:

For timing covers, water pumps, auto tranny pans (anything with a ~6mm or 1/4" fastener going into sloppy spec. aluminum threads) I install with a short 3/8" rachet or speedhandle and use my precision calibrated wrist to "snug" tight. If you make a living doing the work, you haven't got the time to 3 step torque every little screw you install - you'll get fired, or go broke. Aircraft magnetos are an exception to this rule, but I haven't worked on an aircraft magneto in 15 years.

Arya Q # 2 - Yes, I use two adapters. You aren't torquing the nut with it - just measuring the force to turn the pinion.

MrManGuy - Campy makes tools too? I've seen how much their components cost - I probably don't want to know. (former aircraft mechanic & former Freightliner dealer mechanic, not former bicycle mechanic :flipoff2: )


Freebie tool #2
scrounge up some pressure treated 4"x4" or 6"x6" scraps/cut offs - they come in handy.

Cheapy tool you forgot-
Buy a ~3 lb deadblow. You don't absolutely need one, but it will make your life a lot easier. I picked mine up "quality pre-owned" from a flea market for $4 (it swings exactly the same as every one I've used off the tool truck).

[Davethorik]

Arya Ebrahimi - look at McMasterCarr/MSC for calipers, dial indicators etc. Starrett and Mitutoyo are the big names. Make sure you get a plunger style indicator, lever style (test) indicators, arent great for gear setups.

Yes, Starrett and Mitutoyo are good names...but pricy. If you aren't going to use them often, why drop a lot of dough? I bought a Fowler plunger indicator for $25 and its just as accurate as the ones that cost 7 times as much. I use it on an almost every day basis at work and its fine for what I do, I can't see how occasionally setting up a diff would be different.

If you really want brand name stuff though, you can find good deals on used (not on ebay). I got a Mitutoyo thou lever indicator and an Interrapid tenths lever indicator for $80, but they came with a free Kennedy tool box and a bunch of other misc. stuff. Check craigslist frequently.

[guidolyons]

I got my dial indicator/mag base, micrometers and calipers from HF. I don't set up gears enough to justify the higher $$, they worked just fine, I'm not building the space shuttle. One thing I did luck out on was finding a MAC tools dial indicator 3/8" IN/LB torque wrench at the pawn shop for $60. My first set of gears I did, I cut off the old bearings, but ended up making my own clamshell/bearing splitter, the HF one I had was too thick to get under the lip of the inner bearing race with out damaging the bearing. Next time around I'd make or buy a set of "set up bearings" I had to take mine off several times before I got the shims correct. I got lucky and didn't damage the new bearings pulling them on and off.

[Landslide]

We use OTC pullers ONLY...

Ten ton press works fine.

Top quality dial indicators and digital calipers fawk that cheap crap.

Dial indicator has an adjustable snake type arm to a visegrip clamp - no worries about bumping it off and onto the floor.

We also have a set of D44 & D60 setup bearings (honed out inside and outside bearing races) this saves the new bearings from R&R for measurements.

You will need something to hold your diff assy at work height and allow it to rotate.

[nissancrawler]

Just to fuel some fire, I work for an aircraft company, bought a few $12 torque wrenches from the cummins tool truck (not ONE word of english on the instructions) and sent them in to be calibrated. They all calibrated with no trouble, as did my el-cheapo micrometers i bought. All have been fine for 5 years now....

[SirMrManGuy]

MrManGuy - Campy makes tools too? I've seen how much their components cost - I probably don't want to know. (former aircraft mechanic & former Freightliner dealer mechanic, not former bicycle mechanic :flipoff2: )

Yeah they make tools, expensive as hell. All the high end custom frame builders use their taps and dies and cutting tools. For example, their bottom bracket taps cost $1000. They do make wrenches and stuff, but you dont see them too often, my old boss had a set of cone wrenches, allens, pullers and a few other things in a special wooden case that he said cost him like $1.5k in the early $80s.

As for Starrett and Mitutoyo, I seemed to remember that Arya Ebrahimi was an engineering student at VT (I'm an engineering student too, so I tend to remember who else on here is) so a good set of measuring tools in my oppinoion wouldnt be a bad thing to own.

[krb]

Name brand name measuring tools cost a lot more than the Chineese stuff.
Since I'm a machinist I prefer the quaility stuff over the Chineese tools.
So I would say that if you make a living using measuring tools buy quality.
If your just going to use them once in a while,the Chineese tools will work for a fraction of the cost.

[K2Orion]

I bought a cam degree kit from summit a few years ago when I was building a motor. It came with a degree wheel, dial indicator, mag base and the adjustable arm thingy to hold it, piston stop and checking springs. IIRC it was under a $100. I have used the indicator for other stuff more than the degree wheel. Might be a way to get what you need and and some other stuff for less.

[Arya Ebrahimi]

Thanks for all the awesome info guys. It turns out I may not need to buy these anyway, but at least now there will be a good consolidated thread for searching purposes :D

BTW, SirMrManGuy, I'm a Building Construction Student, not an Engineering student. Only precision instruments I use/need sit on tripods or clip onto my belt :D