hi all,I recently Purchased a 78 W150(full time 4wd),it has a 318/727, NP203 3.55 gears...

I want to make this a beast,not a mud machine as this will be my daily driver,25% of my driving will be heavy towing,70% will be just driving(to and from work,cruising etc),the other 5% will be off roading,since this is a daily driver mileage is a concern,I would like 12+MPG on cheap gas...

I am new to the 4x4 scene,but not to mopars,here is what I was thinking....

360,9:1 compression,MP 260/268 or crane 204/214 cam,dual plane intake,700CFM holley,headers,duals,4.30 or 4.56 gears,3-4"suspension,2"body lift,35"tires...


what do you think,will this do what I need it to??
what do you guys suggest,I have never done a 4x4 project before...

I think you need more than one vehicle - because you are asking too much from that truck.


Heavy towing? With a 318?
A good daily driver AND tow rig AND off roader?

I don't think it can be done reasonably with what you are starting with,... I just don't see it happening :confused:

I don't think you read my post completely,I CURRENTLY have a 318,I want to switch to a 360...and YES you CAN do heavy towing with a 318,my dad has a 72 1 ton van,it is all STOCK with a 318 2bbl,4.10s and 35" tires,it pulls like a beast,and gets 13MPG,my truck pulls exceptionaly well,and gets 12mpg,I see no reason I cant do better with a 360 4bbl...

besides,it is not a SERIOUS off roader only occasional,if i wanted a serious off roader,it would get alot more engine,lift and tire...

I see the 360 now :p


Not sure what you are asking then.... add a 360, off-the-shelf lift kit, re-gear, a rear Detroit locker, some 35's, and use it. Not sure on the mpg though....

Originally posted by freak007
I don't think you read my post completely,

Looks like you and DRM_ are gonna get along great:D :flipoff2:

Looks like you and DRM_ are gonna get along great

ehh...we'll get along just fine,as long as he opens his eyes BEFORE he opens his mouth:p (j/k)...


I figured with a 4bbl,I could get better mileage to offset the bigger engine

I also planed on some basic porting of the heads,and adding some 2.02/1.60 valves

I also planed a locker in the rear for sure,possibly in the front..

I guess what i really wanted to know is:

is the 204/214 cam right for what i want??or is there something better?

will my dana 44 handle the 35" tire?

is 4.56 too much gear for 35" tire and a power band that ends at 4000RPM??

is there any reason I shouldn't use a locker in both front AND back?(I am looking at a powertrax locker)

how good are powertrax?what is the best in terms of affordability,durability,and effectiveness??


I don't know what to do!!I need help!!

Here is something that may help with gear vs. tire @ rpm questions.
http://www.4lo.com/geartable.html
No clue about MOPAR cams...
I'm no engine guru, but you might want to rethink the ported large valve heads though. What you want is low RPM torque for towing, MPG, and off-road ability. Ported, large valve heads make HP at higher rpms but kill off low rpm torque. Same with large diameter headers.

in my experiance the 360 mopar responds well to the 2.02 valve,according to DD2000 it will help all around power,when I said basic porting i meant Pocket ported and port matched...


as for the gears,according to that table 4.30-4.56/35 will work well for what I want...

I know for mileage/towing I need power from 1200-4500,what power band will work best for off road??

any other advice??

Originally posted by freak007
I know for mileage/towing I need power from 1200-4500,what power band will work best for off road??

any other advice??

for the offroading the guys around here do it needs to be real good from about 300-800 rpm, then it can be pretty flat up until the revlimmitter, where it needs to come on again for those axle snapping situations where you are hung up on a rock and decide to give it a bunch of juice just to watch the blue smoke come off the tires.

Seriously though, I am not sure how much relevant info you will find on here for that, most guys around here who post an engine question other than "what tranny and t cases can I mate to this motor to get a 400:1 crawl ratio" get pretty well flamed up.

The 4 bbl will help you with towing, and depending on size and adjustment can either help or hurt you for mileage.

A mean ass camshaft will help in situations where the throttle is open, and hurt in situations where it's not.

For offroad you want to stay away from anything that is gonna get real lumpy at idle, or want to lean out, as your truck will tend to be parked at idle a lot, and you don't want to be fouling plugs and overheating all the damn time.

In my experience getting better than 12 mpg out of any gas v8 and 35's is gonna be damn near impossible. Add lack of EFI on there and you can probly give it up completely. My dd is an unlifted 97 dodge 4x4 with the stock 32" or so tall P-metric tires on 17" wheels, and stock 360/auto. I get 12mpg in town, 14 on the hwy, and 6-7 towing my ranger around.

good luck, especially with the flames for asking engine questions..

Oh yeah, find the search button too!

There is PLENTY of info on here about exactly how well your D44 will hold up to 35's and a conservative driving style (you ought to be fine)

Foley

"In my experience getting better than 12 mpg out of any gas v8 and 35's is gonna be damn near impossible. Add lack of EFI on there and you can probly give it up completely. My dd is an unlifted 97 dodge 4x4 with the stock 32" or so tall P-metric tires on 17" wheels, and stock 360/auto. I get 12mpg in town, 14 on the hwy, and 6-7 towing my ranger around. "

I don't know for sure why the new trucks don't get better mileage than they do but I get that good in my truck. It has a Cad 472 performer 750 carb 4.10's and 37" GY MT's. The speedo has been corrected to the point that it indicates 76mph when you are actually going 75 as timed with a stopwatch. Close enough for me. Anyway I get 12.5 driving my truck around the different jobsites. 70% city 30% highway 55-60 mph tops. On the freeway without big winds at 75 to 80 it gets 12 mpg. Towing a skidsteer at 60 or so it gets 9.5. Big headwinds drop the mileage a lot, as bad or worse than towing. These all are verified numbers too since I have to keep a mileage log for taxes. Anyway I think you can do decent without a new efi truck but probably not any better. Also my experience has been that a fullsize heavy truck gets about the same mileage with a bigblock as with a small block engine. My last truck had 35's 3.73 gears and a 350 and in the same type of driving it got slightly worse mileage cause you were always on the throttle hard to keep it going. Anyway hope this helped some!

I think the mileage killer on new rigs is weight, lots of glass, etc compared to an older truck, and not really any parts are built much lighter (unless its an avalanche, then it cuts weight with plastic body panels).

Originally posted by freak007


ehh...we'll get along just fine,as long as he opens his eyes BEFORE he opens his mouth:p


Pfffffttttt :eek: thats to funny :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: hay this is DRM your talking about don't hold your breth

Foley you are probably correct on the weight issue people demand more and more creature feature in trucks as well as cars. I haven't had mine on a set of scales but the shipping weight of my truck from the factory was 3890 pounds according to my spec book. I bet every reg cab half ton weighs a bit more than that today. Later

for the offroading the guys around here do it needs to be real good from about 300-800 rpm, then it can be pretty flat up until the revlimmitter, where it needs to come on again for those axle snapping situations where you are hung up on a rock and decide to give it a bunch of juice just to watch the blue smoke come off the tires.


hee hee,not to make anyone mad,but I have yet to see an engine that idles at 300 rpms:P,so I will assume you mean power from off idle...,the 204 cam I am thinking of has a power band from 1000-4500,and idles at smooth at 750,so it should be good right??


you think my FULLTIME dana 44 will take 35" tires as a daily driver??I don't mind replaceing ball joints,as long as i get 25-30K miles out of them,I am more worried about axle bearins,U joints and other fun stuff...


my next question-should I switch from my automatic(gear ratios 2.46,1.46,1) to a 4 speed(apx ratios 6,2.71,1.6,1) I have the pedal assembly,I would need the trans/bell housing and clutch linkage though...

I'm with you on the 300 rpm idle. :D

I ran 35s with a part time D44 on a DD 75 K5 Blazer and a mildly built up 454 for 2 years with no problems. Just take it easy on the gas pedal when off road. As for full time, don't know exactly how it will hold up to the additional wear. My guess is it won't be that much different than smaller tires, but I don't know...

Cams RPM range sounds pretty good, IIRC that's about the same as the cam in my 454 and it worked very well.

I'm partial to Automatics, it should be just fine in there. Only reason to change is if you simply prefer a stick. The torque converter makes up for the lack of low gear (for the most part), just make sure you have a good cooler on there. Many people feel that the torque converter effectively doubles the gear ratio giving you the equivalent of a 5:1 low when slipping the converter. Also, you don’t want a high stall converter. Generates too much heat and tends to be really jumpy off road.

Low stall converter with the best low(est) rpm torque you can manage will give you the best tow capability, improved gas mileage, and better off road performance for low speed off road runs. Obviously mud and sand have different needs.

Originally posted by freak007



hee hee,not to make anyone mad,but I have yet to see an engine that idles at 300 rpms:P,so I will assume you mean power from off idle...,the 204 cam I am thinking of has a power band from 1000-4500,and idles at smooth at 750,so it should be good right??


not making me mad, but I am not talkign about idling. if you are crawling, you will find yourself in situations where you have the motor lugged down that low on rpm, and it needs to run, not buck, sputter, and die.

I made a pretty big mistake buidling a motor for my trail rig. I dumped a boatload of $$ into a cam, head work, increased compression, high flow fuel injection parts (maf, injectors, tb, etc) and it doesn't work worth a shit offroad. I am now interested in getting rid of it and just getting a normal V6 or V8 to drop in it.

Ahh, now I understand the low rpm thing. But your talking manual tranny, autos won't do that.

ok,I also see the low rpm thing,but as Baddog said,it won't happen with an automatic...


so all in all you guys agree that this setup is what I want/need??
or does anyone have something else to add?

I think I will swithc to the dana 60 anyway,how much work is involved in changeing...

ok,after some thinking,I have decided that since most of my driving will be for milage,with a little bit needing power,I will go with 4.10 gears,since desktop dyno says I will have 410+ lbs of torque at 2000 rpms,I think the motor will make up the grunt I need...


as for the engine,I found another cam that might work,I need help chosing...
the first is a Crane 204/216,112*lobe seperation,-14
overlap
the second is a COMP 203/219,110* lobe seperation-9 overlap

which do you think will make better power??


I want to be able to run on 87-89 octane,with NO doubt,I dont want to here 9:1 SHOULD be ok,put it together and find i still nee 93 octane,the Crane cam has 112* lobe seperation,and -14 overlap,the COMP has 110*lobe seperation,and -9 overlap I don't think they will bleed off much compression...how much compression do you think can I run(experiance would be nice here)

still nothing??no more advise??