That's right. Officially cut up the F-toy. Not going to be competing, so I decided it was time to step it up. The goal of this build is going to be a kickass trail buggy. Here's the list of upgrades that you will be seeing in this build up:

-Dana 60 front axle DRW (until I get SRW hubs), 4.88's, welded, Parts Mike arms, stock shafts for now, rebuilt, Ruff Stuff diff cover
-14 bolt FF rear axle, disk brake conversion, 4.88's, welded, milled down ring gear, severly shaved pumpkin, Ruff Stuff diff cover
-PSC full Hydro. 2.5" double ended ram kit with all the fixin's:smokin:
-Hummer Rims
-42" Irok's
-1990 Chevy 4.3L converted to run on my Got Propane kit.
-T350 tranny, Art-Carr shifter, using Downey adapter to Marlin dual ultimate cases.
-Marlin Brackets, Ruff Stuff brackets for all the axle hanging.

I've been collecting for awhile and have everything but the tires. Even though I have everything, it's going to take awhile to build. Have a new addition to the family arriving in the next couple of weeks. Stay tuned for pics. to come shortly.

Cool, you know why I'm gonna like this build up:cool2:

How far into the ring gear are you going on the 14b? If you take off more than just the 1 bottom bolt (I took off 3) I have a slick solution to keep your cover from peeling back.

Sweet!:smokin:
I'm doin the same except 350 TBI, 700R, & in a 4seater

Cool, you know why I'm gonna like this build up:cool2:

How far into the ring gear are you going on the 14b? If you take off more than just the 1 bottom bolt (I took off 3) I have a slick solution to keep your cover from peeling back.

Planning on taking off a 1/4" off the ring gear to start and then I'll go from there. Spill the beans with the cover solution.:D Right now I'm taking a Ruff Stuff 3/8" thick cover kit and cutting it down and adding plate. Going to weld 1/2" to the bottom and then drill and tap it so that new bolts can go across the bottom.

Spill the beans with the cover solution.:D


Weld it on:flipoff2:




I think with only taking 1/4" off the ring gear, you will probably only be losing the bottom bolt. If that's the case, a 3/8" thick diff ring/cover will probably hold it shut just fine.

I took ~9/16" off the ring gear, and just barely got the bottom 3 bolt holes shaved off. Have around .030-.060" clearance between the ring gear and the new plate. Probably a little tighter than it should have been, but it doesn't see the street and no problems so far...

See if you can tell what going on. If it's too hard to see, I'll explain it later.

Started off by tearing off the front end and selling it off. Took off the steering and hydro assist and sold that off. Next I will cut off the front spring hanger and weld on a new one. Going to push it forward another inch or so. Going to go ahead and build an outboarded rear shackle hanger in the back of the front spring. Decided not to go through the frame farther back.

Tore the 60 apart and rebuilt it. A big thanks to Parts Mike for all his help. He has incredible customer service and knowledge. Not to mention fast shipping. Here are some of the pics. of the rebuild.:D

Here are Parts Mike's arms. They eliminate the spring at the top off the knuckle. Another cool part of his kit is the fact that it comes with ARP studs for the knuckles.:smokin:

Since this axle was sourced from a 1978 Dodge dually, it has external style hubs. Instead of the Chevy style internal hubs. Couldn't find any aftermarket lockouts for this application. So I had Parts Mike find me these factory replacements. Going to go with SRW hubs with chromo inners, outers and lockouts in the future, but this will work for now.

After looking at all the different options for diff guards, I finally decided on Ruff Stuff Specialties covers. They are 3/8" thick:smokin:. Very well made, all one piece bent together. I opted for the weld together kit. Super cheap compared to everyone else. Here are their 60 cover and 14 bolt cover that will get cut up to fit the shaved housing. Also ordered were their 14 bolt disc brake brackets and 14 bolt simple swap kit. Super beefy and cheap.:smokin:

Finally got the six-O finished up. Rebuilt thanks to Parts Mike.:smokin: Ended up using Spicer joints for now, until more money comes trickling in. Also using the stock shafts for now, I think that they will be strong enough to get the 42's around for awhile. Hopefully:rolleyes:

Fyrdude,

Were are you going to position your 4.3? I am doing a 4 seat f-toy and can't decide were to put the engine. I thought about 6 inches back but I was wondering what other might be doing.

John

What a pain in the arse it was cleaning up this axle. Spent weeks soaking in the parts washer and it still took a ton of elbow grease and lets not forget the wire wheel attachement on the grinder. The gears in the front end are factory 4.88's:smokin: Going to just weld the front for now. Future plans are for an ARB. The 14-bolt will be getting 4.88's, the thick ones that fit the smaller 4.10 carrier. Will also be welding this up until I can get some ARB's

Here is my favorite part of the buildup thus far. I get a partial wood everytime I go in the garage and look at it. Here is the full hydro kit from PSC. They are incredible people over there. Very awsome customer service, very helpful in customizing a kit especially for you. This is everything I will need, minus the fluid. Very well thought out kit and very high quality. Very fast shipping too. Like 3 days fast.:smokin:

They even resplined the short column for a Toyota shaft.:smokin: I can't wait to see this thing on there. Unfortunately I ordered the bracket kit for a Toyota. I wasn't thinking about the 4.3 at that time. I will have to come up with a bracket for the Chevy engine or exchange the TC pump for a P-pump with PSC. We shall see.

:D Fyrdude,

Were are you going to position your 4.3? I am doing a 4 seat f-toy and can't decide were to put the engine. I thought about 6 inches back but I was wondering what other might be doing.

John

The engine was originally placed aprrox. 6" back I think. Whatever the max that the rules state you can move you engine back is what I did. I am just goint to move the engine forward to accomodat the 4.3 and t350. Luckily, I also have 8274 winch which is the size of a boat anchor. Going to remove this and make even more room for the engine and radiator. Stay tuned for pics to come.

Next up will be to hang the front axle. Will update the pics. hopefully tom. or the next day.

I've even thought about keeping the DRW front and getting spacers for the rear 14 bolt so they sit close to the same width. Man will that be wide.

Anyone have any ideas for mounts for the double ended ram? Keep in mind that it has leaf springs. Thought about copying BTF's mount. Minus the $500 plus.

Something kinda like this.

Minus the part that mounts to the cover.

Looks to me like a perma-cover:D

Yeah I thought it might be too hard to see. The welds you see on the cover are where it was cut to match the shave on the bottom, and angle up close to the ring gear. But there is another plate that is welded to the bottom of the diff that extends out and wraps behind the diff cover (about half way to that weld) so there is no bottom edge of the cover for rocks to grab and peel at. And there is another inner plate on the diff that acts as the cover flange and extra beef under the ring gear.

Im4yotas, have you had to cut that thing off to service it at all?

It unbolts and slides out, the cover isn't welded to the diff at all.

Can kinda see the piece that sticks out past the cover from the bottom of the diff.

If you don't mind, I think I might borrow that idea.:D Definately going to do that on the rear.

Spent the morning creating this little gadget. I know I should have bought the machined one from High Angle. But I couldn't resist the urge to let out the "Yankee Ingenuity" in me. Took off the stock 60 flange and cut it down to it's lowest point right before it flares out to the were the straps connect. Next I took a Toyota flange and cut off the part that goes over the pinion. So I would basically just have a flat flange. Then I "milled" out the inside of the Toyota flange. When I say mill I mean torch. Then I centered it using the T.L.A.B. method, "That Looks About Right" method. Then welded her together. Be sure that you can still get a socket in afterwards. Then I went ahead and double drilled it, what the hell.:smokin: Flame away.:flipoff2:

Next order of business was to weld together the 60 cover. Lined it up as best I could, using the bolts as guides. Then tacked it together. Then welded her up. After I was done, I put it up against the axle and I think it might have warped a little:shaking: If I can't get it down, I'm gonna be pissed. Also going to have to use some allen screws to lock it down.

Here are the rims I picked up. A BIG thanks to FamilyBeast here on the board for hooking a brother up.:smokin: :smokin:

After I get the axles hung I will jump onto cleaning up the 4.3 and get it ready to go in. Until then it offers a great area to run into and leave bruises:D

cool. :beer:

I think about linking my rig all the time

Next order of business was to weld together the 60 cover. Lined it up as best I could, using the bolts as guides. Then tacked it together. Then welded her up. After I was done, I put it up against the axle and I think it might have warped a little:shaking: If I can't get it down, I'm gonna be pissed. Also going to have to use some allen screws to lock it down.

Take it to a machine shop that has one of those giant wet belt sanders that is used to destroy the mating surface of perfectly good cylinder heads and have them sand it flat again.

I actually thought about having a shop do that. Will take it down this week.

Lookin good Jess. :smokin:

But F the 42's and just go for the 49's. Or even better, the 54" Boggers, :eek: that would be the chit.

Wish that would work. If only the t-case could handle it. More pics. to come this weak.

The build has been going slowly with a baby on the way. Here's the progress so far. Got the axle finished minus the new SRW hubs that should be here in a week. Made the front spring hanger and tacked into place. The way it sits it moved the fron axle forward approx. 2".

This area will be plated for strength and looks.

Rear hanger was fun to figure out since I moves the axle forward. Made a bracket that ended up being moved back to achieve a 70 degree angle. The bracket got cut up and moved farther back than this pic.

Here it is with the axle under it finally.:smokin: :D

I also have to rotate the pinion up a few degrees, so going to need to get some shims.
Next up is to get the PSC full hydro. kit on. Will update this weekend. Hopefully I will get to the 14 bolt.:D

So the going has been slow. Extremely slow. We just had a little baby girl. :D It has been one hell of an awsome experience. :D
Now I'm trying to get back in the garage to get this project kick started again.
After checking out everyones double ended ram mounts I came up with my own version. This is just the mounting plate. There will be down tubes to the axle. Then I will add a plate across the front with go-fast holes to protect the ram.

The ram sits level and now I'm just trying to decide if this is the correct way to mount this thing. I was trying to keep the ram arms in line with the steering arms when it is at full lock to one side. I was following the diagram that Howe had on his website. Anyone else have any input / diagram / instructions for setting up double ended ram steering? They don't exactly send instructions with the stuff. If I didn't find this diagram or talk to Stickboy about it I would have mounted it so that it would sit inline while perfectly centered, which would have been wrong.

The opposite side droops down at full turn and is also arched back slightly.

are you going to leave the body work on? that is way cool. have you thought about skinning it all the way back with the runner body?

This is what I was trying to follow while mounting the ram. I wonder how they will sit when the ram is centered. Check out this link. It's in the Howe FAQ section.http://www.howeperformance.com/pdfs/dbl-end%20ram%20mtg.pdf

A big thanks to Willflow for selling me this awsome t350 with an adapter to the toy t-case.:smokin: :smokin:

Also bought Dodge SRW front hubs (external style) from 420Willys here on the board to narrow up the front end. Don't have the $$ to get the Chevy SRW internal style hubs with 35 sline cromo. stubs, CTM's, and cromo inners. So this will get me around for awhile. I hope.:shaking:

are you going to leave the body work on? that is way cool. have you thought about skinning it all the way back with the runner body?

I am going to leave the body work on. Going to be putting the doors back on and then do a little trimming so I can ge in easier. Also going to try to find an old bed to cut up and possibly have some bedsides on the back.

Steering angles look good, same as what I did on mine. I have seen a few people that did it wrong, and they don't seem to have issues.

-Wayne

Thanks Rotozuk. Going to weld it at that angle.

So I've been wondering if going with 42's may not be such a great idea. I'm now thinking that 39's might be better. I was told that the stock 60 shafts would not hold up to the torture of 42's. I already bought some standard Dodge SRW front hubs that are external style flanges. What I have to buy are the Chevy SRW front hubs, so that way I can get the 35 spline chromo's in there. I was told that 30 spline chromo outers (external Dodge) are no match to the 35 spline (internal style Chevy) chromo outers. What to do?

Also forgot to mention that I think the output shaft of the Toy T-case will want to explode under the strain. What do you guys think?

The only guy's I see making toy stuff live on 42's stick to super slow crawling. As soon as there is any wheel speed involved :nuke:

I carry a spare output, on longer trips. I've been told by some they hold up fine and others break them every time they go out. :shaking:
:)
Also, had an idea. How strong are 30 spline chromo outer d60 shafts compared to 35 spine stuff?

The Toy t-case will be an issue that will always be a concern in the back of your mind.

What gearing you planning on running in the axles? The lower the gearing in the axles, the more load you will take off the t-case. Randy's old rig chewed through t-cases pretty well, and the new owner, Nolen has not found a solution other then getting rid of the Toy t-case. Its a good read:
http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=566354

-Wayne

4.88's in the pumpkins. I was also told that runnning the auto tranny would take up some of the shock loads that are put on the t-case. Don't know if this is true or not. Will check out that link. Thanks.

4.88's in the pumpkins. I was also told that runnning the auto tranny would take up some of the shock loads that are put on the t-case. Don't know if this is true or not. Will check out that link. Thanks.

I would think it would also, but if you are hammer down on a big obstacle, I don't think it will matter. Can always upgrade later..

I only run 37" tires and 5:29's and am a bit worried about busting the rear t-case at some point. So far no issues, then again I'm still within the range of reliability on it. I think you are going beyond that range.

Glad to hear the trans made it ok. Congrats on the new baby. I had another girl on the 10th myself. Rig is lookig good keep up the good work. I stretched my frame about 8 inches and shoved my 5.7 TBI through the firewall. This will put my crank pulley dirrectly above my front axle for better weight distibution and better climbing ability.

Willflow,
Congrats on the new addition!!!:D Awsome to hear! Would love to check out the build, do you have a thread going with the new upgrades? Love to see some pics. Post 'em up. Thanks again and look forward to putting that thing in soon.

I would think it would also, but if you are hammer down on a big obstacle, I don't think it will matter. Can always upgrade later..

I only run 37" tires and 5:29's and am a bit worried about busting the rear t-case at some point. So far no issues, then again I'm still within the range of reliability on it. I think you are going beyond that range.

I may end up ditching the toy cases at some point but for now I will just hammer what I've got. Also going to get one of the chromo outputs and see if that buys me any time.

my roomate is runnin 42s and stock shafts on a toyota ex cab...hes got 240 horses at his right foot and his front 60 doesnt break shafts much.... he snapped an outer but his inners with hold...probably cause hes got welderbilt knuckles....the knuckles take some stress away as well and eliminate the play you get with the stock knuckle bushing..... im diggin the build...keep us posted

Thanks for the info. I'm going to be running the stock shafts for awhile. Might end up getting the chromo 30 spliners just to get by for a little while.

Here is part of my build. I haven't made much progress lately with the new baby but I will get moving again soon.

http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=560440

love your spring hangers going to copy them for my dana 60 swap.
but dear god that pinion flange as ghetto fab as you can get, might as well put a receiver tube drive shaft in the rear. I am a machinist and can tell you quite certainly that you cannot mig weld a pinion yoke and expect it to last. get a fullsize truck drive shaft from the scrap yard, and cut and weld it to your toyota drive shaft. Or best of all make some shims out of tube and press them over your toyota u joint caps and secure in the 60 yoke with stock straps.

love your spring hangers going to copy them for my dana 60 swap.
but dear god that pinion flange as ghetto fab as you can get, might as well put a receiver tube drive shaft in the rear. I am a machinist and can tell you quite certainly that you cannot mig weld a pinion yoke and expect it to last. get a fullsize truck drive shaft from the scrap yard, and cut and weld it to your toyota drive shaft. Or best of all make some shims out of tube and press them over your toyota u joint caps and secure in the 60 yoke with stock straps.

I totally agree with you there. Already ordering a machined unit from Jesse at High Angle Driveline. Thought I could cheap out on this but I was totally wrong.:shaking: I actually think it might make it for awhile but don't want to trust it in the long run. You'll see the new one shortly.

Thanks for the info. I'm going to be running the stock shafts for awhile. Might end up getting the chromo 30 spliners just to get by for a little while.

I ran the stock 30spl. for a long time only breaking one and twisting another. I went to the cromo's when I got 42's and didnt have a single problem in a year of wheeling the hell out of it. My superwinch hubs should break before the shafts do

was running a toyota case and the output lasted me 2 years. When It finally broke was in farmington being a dumbass and pretty much trying to break something

I ran the stock 30spl. for a long time only breaking one and twisting another. I went to the cromo's when I got 42's and didnt have a single problem in a year of wheeling the hell out of it. My superwinch hubs should break before the shafts do

was running a toyota case and the output lasted me 2 years. When It finally broke was in farmington being a dumbass and pretty much trying to break something

That's the info. I was looking for. :smokin: Someone who's done it. Gonna have to run the 30's for awhile on the 42's and just drive a little nicer.:D Also going the cryoed output at some point. Thanks.

I ran the stock 30spl. for a long time only breaking one and twisting another. I went to the cromo's when I got 42's and didnt have a single problem in a year of wheeling the hell out of it. My superwinch hubs should break before the shafts do

was running a toyota case and the output lasted me 2 years. When It finally broke was in farmington being a dumbass and pretty much trying to break something

Wanted to know if those were cromo 30's or cromo 35's?

No real progress. However, I did score a set of IROK 42's from MudKitten here on the board. A big thanks to Leah.:smokin: They look huge compared to my old 37's.:D

I just noticed a new problem. With the leaf springs, 42's, and Hummer rims, they look like they are going to hit the spring with SRW hubs. Anyone ever encounter this? I have the DRW hubs on there now and it looks like that I might have to keep them on. Unless I change rims.:shaking: Anyone have any input?

I have pretty much the same thing, but I had to run 2" spacers for the wheels to clear the steering arm.

I have pretty much the same thing, but I had to run 2" spacers for the wheels to clear the steering arm.

That was with the Hummer H2 wheels? I was told by Parts Mike that his steering arms would clear H2 rims. I doubt that now that I'm looking at it with DRW hubs on there and not even SRW hubs. If you had to run a 2" spacer with H2 rims then I think that I might be ok with the DRW hubs. Did you have any problems with hitting your front leaf springs? Also, what size tire are you running? Thanks for your help. :D

My bad, I thought you were talkin about H1's. That's what I have with SRW's and 42's. They clear the springs, but I'm not sure by how much.

On your drive flanges, you can get them broached for 35 spline. I had a set done from a guy down south and it cost about $80. Cheaper than buying a set of aftermarket drive flanges.

On your drive flanges, you can get them broached for 35 spline. I had a set done from a guy down south and it cost about $80. Cheaper than buying a set of aftermarket drive flanges.

Thanks for the cool tip.:smokin: Definately going to try and find someone who can do that around here. I have possibly found a deal on some Chevy hub assemblies. Will send you a PM and get that guys info. if this deal falls through. Thanks again.

That looks sick. Was your 14 bolt a drw? If it was and you are keeping the drw hubs, then front spacers are needed. Thats what I am going to do. I am going to run like 1.5 to 2 inch spacers in the front. Hopefully that way the rims and tires will clear. Great build!!!!!

Thanks,
The front is a DRW Dodge. The rear is a Chevy 14 bolt SRW. I was planning on just getting spacers for the rear SRW. Haven't measured yet though.

Anyone know if the 14 bolt DRW spindles are the same as the SRW spindles? Will they swap out? Or should I just go and get some spacers?

I believe they are the same spindle, the housing iwidth is the only difference. Might check the Chevy forum just to verify.

I beleive the spindle is the same however there are several different hubs that should all work on any axle. All the info is in the tech section for the 14 bolt bible.

Thanks guys. Will head down to the yard and see what I can scrounge up. How's it going Will? Still waiting to get that tranny in. It's amazing how long it takes to do things with a newborn. Was able to get a few more things done today. Will post up pics. tom. Will check out the 14 bolt Bible and see what I can come up with. Have to measure the front and get the WMS.

I believe they are the same spindle, the housing iwidth is the only difference. Might check the Chevy forum just to verify.

I should have checked there first, instead I checked the ColoradoK5 forum and didn't find anything.:shaking:

Here are some pics. of the slow progress. Got all the steering in, just need to finalize it.

More pics. What do you think about my shackle angle? 70 degress?

Backside with gusset.

More gussets will be added to the backside.
Also, almost finished rebuilding the 14B and will have pics. of that buildup soon hopefully.
Anyone know what the proper shackle angle should be? Can't remember off the top of my head

Shackle angle looks perfect. They should be 90 degrees to the spring, and that appears to be what you have.

Shackle angle looks perfect. They should be 90 degrees to the spring, and that appears to be what you have.

Sweet! I'll leave it right were it's at, unless the 42's are hitting the chassis. I'll add bump stops before I move everything forward again.:shaking:

Finally got my ATOR drive flanges and 35 spline cromo's. Will post pics. of these drive flanges. They are beef:mr-t:
14 bolt is almost rebuilt. Decided not to shave the 14, just gonna run it for awhile and see how it does.

My next question is about the engine. I have 2 options in front of me. I have a 1990 4.3 v6 or a 1988 TBI Chevy V8. Both would be pane injected, what would you do? Lets here it. Anyone running a 8 in the F-toy? I know Im4Yotas is.
Input?

Falk it! V8 Baby.:smokin:

Falk it! V8 Baby.:smokin:

Whats up Brandon?:D Hope all is well.
Might just be the way I go. Might sell the Vortec then, we'll see.

I know a guy who knows a guy whose cousin's neighbor has a V8 in an F-Toy and said it was cool:D
It's way more than I can use in most crawling with the doubler. But it makes it nice for launching/bumps, just kinda jumps up backdoor:smokin: Always wish I had another 100 ponies when we're in the high speed stuff, though - and another 20 gallons of 'pane. I get horrible milage when my foot is in it, but good trail milage.

I was looking forward to seeing how you did the shave...but sometimes you just gotta go wheelin!

I know a guy who knows a guy whose cousin's neighbor has a V8 in an F-Toy and said it was cool:D
It's way more than I can use in most crawling with the doubler. But it makes it nice for launching/bumps, just kinda jumps up backdoor:smokin: Always wish I had another 100 ponies when we're in the high speed stuff, though - and another 20 gallons of 'pane. I get horrible milage when my foot is in it, but good trail milage.

I was looking forward to seeing how you did the shave...but sometimes you just gotta go wheelin!

I may be leaning towards the 8:mr-t: I always wish I had more power. I know that if I put the v6 in, I'll wish it were the 8.:shaking: Might as well just drop in the 8.
Unfortunately, I have no time with the kid to build. I get a couple of hours in a week, if that. Shaving the 14B will just eat up more time. I do plan on shaving it in the near future. Like you said, I just want to get it together and hit the trail when I get a chance. Hopefully it won't drag to much with the 42's. We will see. Gonna be a nice build when I get to it. ]
BTW, how do you do on (2) 8 gallon propane tanks?
How many days on the con can I get out of 2 pane tanks? Now I can go almost 3 days on one tank.

I actually have the bigger 44# tanks. 1 usually lasts a long day at the Hammers with a few trails and a night run. I usually use 1/8 of a tank in a 15 minute race to the trail head, then 1/8 on a 4 hour trail, and another 1/8 back to camp. I'm sure it would only use half that if it wasn't WOT all the way to and from, but I've only been conservative when it starts sputtering at the end of the trail, and slowly cruise back to camp:D

the 44#, is that a 10 gal. tank?

I belive a 44# is around a 12gal tank

His tanks hold about 10 gal ea. if they are the tanks I put in there. That 4 spd has a horrible gap between 2nd and 3rd. That was my complaint with it and it has to be a fair amount worse with 4.56's. I burned 10 gal in 20 miles on my last trip with it :grinpimp: coming back I think I used maye 3 gal.

There is about a 150 lb difference in the two motors but probably only a twenty or thirty hp difference. If you are looking to spend money on the engine in the future I would put in the six and save yourself room and weight. IN the end you could build that six over three hundred hp with no real problems

I was thinking the V6 and the V8 might be about the same output. Not sure with them being that old. My 4.3 from my 95 is 190 HP I think. Some are as high as 210. I'm probably a bit off on those numbers, best to do your own research! Pay attention to the torque figures too.

-Wayne

The 6 is from a 1990 Blazer. Will do the research and see what I come up with. If that 8 weighs in at approx. 150 lbs. heavier, I may go with the 6 if their output is about the same. Thanks for the input and advice, maybe the 6 is the way to go. Will post up what I find between the two engines.

output on that particular 6 is about 180 or 190 hp, I believe.

Sorry, looks like oyu are at 190 with that year 4.3 and about 200 even with the TBI v-8.
Heres a good link for a 300 hp 4.3
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/113_0208_chevy_43l_262ci_v6_engine_build/

Also, about a month ago Hot Rod magazine did a very short story on getting 350hp (I think) out of one of these

Do you plan on building whichever motor you choose, now or possibly later on? I skimmed through the article, and it looks like it costs around $3000 to make a reliable 300 horses with the 4.3. How much would it cost to make 300 with the TBI 350? Or how much power could you make reliably with that same $3000?

Hey Jeremy, how much $$ did you put into the 350?

I got a buddy deal on that motor. 11.5:1 compression 4 bolt main .030 over, flat tops. 2.02 heads ported/decked, cam $1200. On 'pane should be making a solid 350 hp, with a different intake and mixer, the numbers would push 400.

Do the v8

Really!:smokin: What intake and mixer? She's been feeling a little sluggish ever since the 4.56's and 42's:D

An edelbrock performer for 6k and under, the mixers get expensive. I think you have to go to dual 425's or move away from the impco's to the stuff that pyro is running. I think those mixers flow around 850 cfm. For the same cost, you could regear and gain some power back. No more 3rd gear power slides on asphalt huh?

Thanks for the article and posting up the numbers. After doing a little rough measurements, I think the 6 is going to fit into the current buildup better than the 8. The 8 also needs to be rebuilt before install, the 6 I have can be installed without a rebuild. Will rebuild it later when funds are a little better.

Also on the pane mixers. You think I can get away with a model J mixer and 200 carb on a 4.3? Also, can I use the TBI intake or do I need a carb intake to put the pane on? I've heard of both. Also have to find an older distributer, not TBI. What years of distributers will fit on a 1990 4.3?
Thanks for your help.

I would run the model E and 425 mixer. Don't sell yourself short as I think you'll be kicking yourself for not doing the V8. If you decide you like the 6 you can hop it up during the rebuild and not run short on fuel. You might be able to find or fab an adapter for the TB manifold, but again I would switch it to a carb manifold since most of the pane mixers I've come across are setup up with a square or spread bore pattern and I wouldn't want to constrict things further.

I don't know how anyone who's heard Im4yota's rig wound out wouldn't want a V8 in their Ftoy (except comp guys)

I would run the model E and 425 mixer. Don't sell yourself short as I think you'll be kicking yourself for not doing the V8. If you decide you like the 6 you can hop it up during the rebuild and not run short on fuel. You might be able to find or fab an adapter for the TB manifold, but again I would switch it to a carb manifold since most of the pane mixers I've come across are setup up with a square or spread bore pattern and I wouldn't want to constrict things further.

I don't know how anyone who's heard Im4yota's rig wound out wouldn't want a V8 in their Ftoy (except comp guys)

Your killin me Wilson. :D Your putting bad thoughts into my head. Now you have me dreamin' about 8's. If I ended up going the 8 route, I would have to wait until winter to do it as I would have to do much re-fabbin'. Barely have time now to finish the axle swap. Gotta get it back on it's feet for some summer wheelin'. Definately going to have to think more about this. It sure would be great to have all that power under my right foot.:smokin:

Will also look around for the E mixer and 425 carb. I think I can get that manifold from a junker carbed 4.3. It should bolt up I think. Also have to find that distributer.

Also forgot to mention that I got my ATOR drive flanges and Yukon cromo outers in. Anyone running the Yukons ever have trouble getting them through the steering knuckle? After I got the shafts together, went to slide them in and they wouldn't fit by a gnats butt hair. Ended up having to take a paddle wheel to the outsides to make it fit. Anyone experience this?

Also forgot to mention that I got my ATOR drive flanges and Yukon cromo outers in. Anyone running the Yukons ever have trouble getting them through the steering knuckle? After I got the shafts together, went to slide them in and they wouldn't fit by a gnats butt hair. Ended up having to take a paddle wheel to the outsides to make it fit. Anyone experience this?

Haven't run the yukons myself but any set I've seen, they've been "massaged" around the ears to fit in. In the 50 degree turning thread they mention this too with their Yukons.

Thanks for the response.:D I was beginning to think I got the wrong ones again. Hope the innners I get won't be too bad.

Making slow progress. Still working on the rear 14 bolt whenever the kid and wife give me a minute. And I do mean a minute.
Anyone know what studs you used on your 14 bolt disc brake conversion. I have 14 bolt drum brakes and pushed the studs out. The thickness of the 10 bolt front disc is about the same thickness as the 14 bolt drum. Did you guys use the same studs or did you have to use something else? Also, was any drilling required on the discs to get the studs to fit properly? Thanks for your help.:D
At this rate it might be done next year.:shaking:

I re-used the 14 bolt studs when I did my disc brakes. I used the 3/4 ton dana 44 front roters.

Making slow progress. Still working on the rear 14 bolt whenever the kid and wife give me a minute. And I do mean a minute.
Anyone know what studs you used on your 14 bolt disc brake conversion. I have 14 bolt drum brakes and pushed the studs out. The thickness of the 10 bolt front disc is about the same thickness as the 14 bolt drum. Did you guys use the same studs or did you have to use something else? Also, was any drilling required on the discs to get the studs to fit properly? Thanks for your help.:D
At this rate it might be done next year.:shaking:

I know how you feel about not having enough time. I can bearly get a minute on my F Four.

Here's a link to my club website. One of the guys in my club just went through this. The information on the wheel studs should be towards the end of the post.

http://www.unhero.com/ninja/index.php?q=uggc%3A%2F%2Fjjj.gurfbpnyovtqnjtf.pbz% 2Fio%2Ffubjguernq.cuc%3Fg%3D303

Good luck,
Richard

Link doesn't work for some reason

I remember seeing info. on this in the 14 bolt Bible under disc brake conversion. This link no longer exists. Anyone know how to get that info.

Finally able to post pics. of the ATOR drive flanges. They are 4140 chromo I believe. Definately well built.

Looking good :smokin:

I screwed up the link. Here's a better one.

http://www.thesocalbigdawgs.com/vb/showthread.php?t=303

Post numbers 6 and 9 have info on the studs.

external hubs still make me cringe, nice bling though

external hubs still make me cringe, nice bling though

I thought the same thing. After talking to a few people who run them, I wasn't too worried. Some guys on the east coast let me know they were running 60's with 500hp and 44's and weren't breaking them. That made me feel a little better. According to ATOR the hundreds they had sold, none had come back. Maybe I will be the first.:D

Are you upgrading the studs?

Sourcing ARP bolts and going to be machining the faces for cone washers hopefully.

That should do the trick

Currently have a thread in General regarding the cone washers, hopefully figure that all out soon. Will update.

Is that thing ready to wheel yet?

Eli

Yeah http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e191/SCHooch1/Smiles/261.gif

Its not like you have anything else going on right now. :shaking:





































:flipoff2:

Trust me when I say I'm trying my best to get this thing done soon. I'm dying to wheel and hopefully things will slow down with the baby and I can get back to wrenching.:D

:shaking: Well, I was going to start going into how I have a almost 11 month old daughter as well as a wife who is about 7 months pregnant and how they have already been out on the trail three times..........

But instead, I am going to suggest another work party like we did when you built up that thing the first time. You supply the list of things that need to get done, the beer, the BBQ-ables, a list of what tools are needed if any to complete the list of things to do and we (SC4WDC and friends) can all come over and knock it out. What cha think? :smokin:

You definately have a tougher situation than I, that is for sure.:D
A work party is definately a good idea and will keep that in mind. I think I am going to resort to late night wrench-fests in hopes that I can get it whittled away. If I don't make significant progress in the next few weeks, a work party may be in order. I keep getting parts from the brown Santa and they just end up laying around the garage.

Status report request.

Is that thing ready to wheel yet?

Haven't been posting up the progress. Sorry:shaking: Barely have time to work on it, let alone take and post pics. Got the front end almost buttoned up with gussets. Welded up the rear 14 bolt carrier. Got the ring gear on and setup the pinion carrier assembly. Now just have to setup the pattern and backlash. Then reassemble, set pinion angle and finally weld on disk brake assemblies. After that just have to get the brake lines on front and rear. I hope to get a bunch done next week. Maybe have it rolling.:D I'll post up some pics. of the progress ASAP. If I don't get anything done next week then I think I may have to put together another work party.

Alright, I've made some progress and will be posting up the pics. today at some point. Had a question regarding front springs. Right now I have AP 5" fronts. With the front rear hangers being underneath the frame it now sits way too high. This also turns my pinion angle down. I've thought about shims to correct this and then had another idea. What about junkyard waggy springs in the front? This would lower my overall lift and also possibly bring my pinion angle back up a few degrees. Any thoughts?

How about a longer frame tube and offset shackles? Check out 300Sniper's build in the Toy Pickup and 4Runner buildups thread.

Alright, I've made some progress and will be posting up the pics. today at some point. Had a question regarding front springs. Right now I have AP 5" fronts. With the front rear hangers being underneath the frame it now sits way too high. This also turns my pinion angle down. I've thought about shims to correct this and then had another idea. What about junkyard waggy springs in the front? This would lower my overall lift and also possibly bring my pinion angle back up a few degrees. Any thoughts?Sky has what you need.
http://www.sky-manufacturing.com/images/suzuki/fullwidthconversiontoy.jpg
Sky Manufacturing's New Toyota Full width Axle Conversion. Fits Chevy or custom axles with 31.5 spring pin spacing.

They'll sell you the individual parts from the kit..

How about a longer frame tube and offset shackles? Check out 300Sniper's build in the Toy Pickup and 4Runner buildups thread.

I already have the dropped front hanger that is lower and forward of stock. I think it sits about the same as 300Sniper's. However, the rear shackle on the front spring is mounted offset under the frame which gives it too much lift and changes the pinion angle. 300sniper's uses the through the frame kit. I cannot use this because the offset is wrong. Sky's kit is for a Chevy which is 31.5" spring pin to pin. The Dodge axle is 31" Sky said this would not work so well. Which is why I went under the frame.

Here's what I have now.

I wonder if I got Sky's kit and just used spacers to move the shackles over. Or I could use a different size tube that goes throught the frame.
What do you think?

You would only need to build an inside (offset) shackle plate that is 1/4" shallower, and use a tube 1/4" shorter. So...build a different inner plate, or cut the outside of the tube down 1/4", and use 1/4" of spacers inside the framerail/tube at the dogleg plate.

Sky kit: (31.5-28.5)/2 = 1.5" dogleg inner plate, 1.5" longer (than stock)outer tube

Need: (31.0-28.5)/2 = 1.25" dogleg inner plate, 1.25" longer outer tube

So, cut off 1/4" off the outside and add 1/4" on the inside. I'm loosing my mind.

Sorry. Exactly opposite that. You're really, really close:

if you were to switch the words 'cut' and 'add', you would be exactly there. If your pads are 1/2" narrower than the Chevy the fullwidth SAS kit was designed for, then this moves each side in one quarter, for a total one half inch.

Alright, I've gotcha ya now. My brain is not working right now.:shaking: I think I'm gonna tear into this next and redo that. Hopefully that will fix my problem.
The only thing I see as being difficult would be placing the tube in the frame. It was hard enough getting the shackle angle I have now. Trying to get the shackle parallel to the spring. I'm probably going to turn the frame into swiss cheese trying to get the angle right. Also, how high would you want to go. I would imagine the higher up the frame you went the more shackle movement you would get with a longer shackle. Anyone with some advise on were to drill that hole?

57" Explorer springs should get you under the frame (so you can run through it) and still fit in your hanger. The downside is that it will move your axle back a bit. Shims on a D60 suck, them damn perches are tall already.

When I ran the 57" F-150 springs on my toy, the shackle hanger ended up directly under the frame, since it caught the frame as it flares out. The explorer spring is identical except in 2.5" width, instead of 3"

I use the following formula for setting my shackle angle: Spring length (center to center, along the leaf) - shackle length (eye to eye) + 1/2" = center of fixed spring mount to center of shackle tube (straight line). I would drill the hole towards the bottom of the frame, drilling it higher will force you to use a taller shackle angle to keep the rear of the spring from contacting the frame.

FYRDUDE, I'm no pro at all this...the math just makes sense to me.

If you already have your motor in (you do now, don't you?) and all your trail weight on the front end, and you like your shackle angle with the setup you currently have, you could mark your frame with a square to show where the spring eye is at rest. If you change all your shackle geometry, you still know where the spring eye is going to be at rest--even before you reload all the weight on the new suspension.. and you could install new shackles/shackle tube accordingly.

If you respring, all bets are off--you'd need to re-figure your shackle geometry, although Wilson's formula sounds like it would give you a great start.

Drilling the tube higher would force you to use a taller (stiffer) shackle angle or you could use a taller shackle that would swing a smaller, flatter angle upon compression and it would be less likely to contact the frame--a shorter shackle will swing upward more on compression; a taller shackle will swing backward more with the same length of spring extension (due to compression).

You could just notch the frame so only the end of the tube intersected the frame rail then gusset similar to how you have it now. That would keep you from having to run a big convoluted shackle with spacers. The only advantage I see with using the jacked up shackle and spacers is it would appear that you'd be able to go back to Toy axle spacing in the future if you wanted.


If you are happy with your shackle angle now then find the position of the tube now in relation to the spring eye when the spring is relaxed then you can transfer that dimension to the frame to locate the new tubes by swinging the spring up to where you want it related to the frame rail. Does that make sence? You can also notch the frame behind the shackle to give more room for the spring on full stuff and not have to use as long of a shackle.

57" Explorer springs should get you under the frame (so you can run through it) and still fit in your hanger. The downside is that it will move your axle back a bit. Shims on a D60 suck, them damn perches are tall already.

When I ran the 57" F-150 springs on my toy, the shackle hanger ended up directly under the frame, since it caught the frame as it flares out. The explorer spring is identical except in 2.5" width, instead of 3"

I use the following formula for setting my shackle angle: Spring length (center to center, along the leaf) - shackle length (eye to eye) + 1/2" = center of fixed spring mount to center of shackle tube (straight line). I would drill the hole towards the bottom of the frame, drilling it higher will force you to use a taller shackle angle to keep the rear of the spring from contacting the frame.


Thanks Wilson. The springs you are referring to are the front F150 springs, correct? Just want to make sure. And if I remember correctly, it was any year. Could you post up pics. of your shackle setup? Mounting the shackle mount under the frame would definately be easier. Thanks.

FYRDUDE, I'm no pro at all this...the math just makes sense to me.

If you already have your motor in (you do now, don't you?) and all your trail weight on the front end, and you like your shackle angle with the setup you currently have, you could mark your frame with a square to show where the spring eye is at rest. If you change all your shackle geometry, you still know where the spring eye is going to be at rest--even before you reload all the weight on the new suspension.. and you could install new shackles/shackle tube accordingly.

If you respring, all bets are off--you'd need to re-figure your shackle geometry, although Wilson's formula sounds like it would give you a great start.

Drilling the tube higher would force you to use a taller (stiffer) shackle angle or you could use a taller shackle that would swing a smaller, flatter angle upon compression and it would be less likely to contact the frame--a shorter shackle will swing upward more on compression; a taller shackle will swing backward more with the same length of spring extension (due to compression).


MT-
Thanks. I was outside looking at it and came up with the same idea. I agree with you and will use that to get in the ballpark. I also realized the error in my idea about going higher with the shackle. I was basing my idea off the desert truck shackle setups they have in the rear. Also, I haven't gotten my engine/tranny setup in yet. Probably not until winter.

You could just notch the frame so only the end of the tube intersected the frame rail then gusset similar to how you have it now. That would keep you from having to run a big convoluted shackle with spacers. The only advantage I see with using the jacked up shackle and spacers is it would appear that you'd be able to go back to Toy axle spacing in the future if you wanted.


If you are happy with your shackle angle now then find the position of the tube now in relation to the spring eye when the spring is relaxed then you can transfer that dimension to the frame to locate the new tubes by swinging the spring up to where you want it related to the frame rail. Does that make sence? You can also notch the frame behind the shackle to give more room for the spring on full stuff and not have to use as long of a shackle.

Definately another good idea. I'm now weighing my options with how to tackle this. I think I'm gonna take a beer outside and stare at it a little longer. Thanks for the help.

Hope these help
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=101847&stc=1&d=1073530433
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=101849&stc=1&d=1073530672
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=102023&stc=1&d=1073613407
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=29447&stc=1&d=1029896733

Awsome!!!:smokin:
Going to try and find some Explorer springs since they are 2.5" wide and will fit inside my current mounts. Also going to move the front crossmember forward just like your first pic. Then possibly redrill the spring pack to move the axle forward even more.

ride height with cut to hell fenders, 37's, a 1" BL and 2" AAL
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=40147&stc=1&d=1037857846

I have a good friend of mine on his way right now to PNP to grab me some Explorer springs.:smokin: Thanks Steve!! Also, it's half price day at PNP this weekend.:smokin:

I wonder if I got Sky's kit and just used spacers to move the shackles over. Or I could use a different size tube that goes throught the frame.
What do you think?

Still trying to figure out your hanger situation? Here is a little more updated pic of my dodge D60 with the hangers through the frame.

http://tamor.us/members-rigs/albums/Build-up/100_0406.sized.jpg

Good luck with the ford springs. I have the 57" long 2.5" wide F150 springs in the back of my 4runner, and they look like they're gonna work pretty well. It will be interesting to see how well they work on the front of a lightweight buggy

Thanks Lost It for the pics. I'm now going with the Explorer springs up front and will be putting the shackle hanger under the frame and see how that works. I realized while holding the springs up in there position that I will not have much up travel with the springs, mostly down travel. Looks like you have the same thing going on.
Also, I could also being making it a hybrid pack using some of my AP springs. I'll be posting up at the end of the weekend the progress.

putting the shackle hanger under the spring

What do you mean by that :confused:

Shackle under the frame. Edit.:laughing:

I thought I was trippin. :smokin:

For all you running the 60 fronts. Right now I have stock inners, Spicer joints, and 35 spline chromo outers. Running spool with 42's. Think it would survive the Hammers? Or do I need to upgrade the inners and joints? Just trying to decide where to put the coin. Thanks for your input.

Thanks Lost It for the pics. I'm now going with the Explorer springs up front and will be putting the shackle hanger under the frame and see how that works. I realized while holding the springs up in there position that I will not have much up travel with the springs, mostly down travel. Looks like you have the same thing going on.
Also, I could also being making it a hybrid pack using some of my AP springs. I'll be posting up at the end of the weekend the progress.

Yes, mostly down travel

From what I've seen, although I'm new to 60's...The joints themselves are not the problem until heavy use with alloy inners and outers. Your setup sounds like a solid budget build. The inners will likely break first. I've got alloy inners and outers with spicer joints. It survived a week of hell at the hammers with an LT1 and 38 MTZ's. They were built with the spicer joints because of the miles we put on in the snow wheeling season. Ladd didn't think CTM's would take it without very frequent greasing.

Wilson-thanks for the responses. I see that I will definately being putting my new bumpstops to work for sure. I think I might have only 6" of up travel, we'll see. Also, thanks for the heads up on the shafts. I think I might order up a set of inners before I head out.
First things first, finish project.:laughing: Easier said than done.

I ran dual lockers and 42's in my Suburban (in my sig pic). I didn't break and axle until I tried running Outer limits. I broke the inner and outer u-joint ears and the u-joint itself. I was in a bad spot where one tire was undercut, two didn't have any traction and the last tire caught traction. I was actually running stock inner shafts with 35 spline outers and Dana u-joints. My D60 lasted for years moving my 7000lb+ Sub over the Hammers. Most of my club is fullsize Chevys with D60s. It's rare that we break and axle. What is your buggy going to weigh? I think you'll be fine.

Probably around 3k, maybe a little more. Still have to weigh it once its rolling.
Thanks for the info. I think I may invest in some inners for now, just for piece of mind.

Thanks Lost It for the pics. I'm now going with the Explorer springs up front and will be putting the shackle hanger under the frame and see how that works. I realized while holding the springs up in there position that I will not have much up travel with the springs, mostly down travel. Looks like you have the same thing going on.
Also, I could also being making it a hybrid pack using some of my AP springs. I'll be posting up at the end of the weekend the progress.

that picture is kind of misleading. The spring pack is nearly flat, yet I think I'll have between 4-6 inches of uptravel. That is more than I need. On my old buggy the springs were an inch from the bumpstop and I had only about 3 inches of uptravel. In the end it worked pretty well, and now I prefer to run it that way.


As for axle shafts, I did alot of research, and in the end went with stock inners, spicer 806x joints, alloy usa 35 spline stub shafts, and solid axle drive flanges. It seems that the stock 35 spline stuff can take a real beating, and as long as you're running full C-clips on the U-joints, you should be fine. We had a very heavy scout in our club running 40's and a 460 on stock 35 spline stuff, and he has yet to have a problem (though I think he may have finally upgraded to alloy stuff when he went to 44's).

BTW, are you still planning on running the DRW D60 with H2's combo?

Still planning on running DRW 60 with H2 rims.:D

Still planning on running DRW 60 with H2 rims.:D

then the title of the build is definitely fitting. That combo looks wide on my 4runner, so I can only imagine what its going to be like on a buggy

So I got the Explorer springs and now don't think they are going to work. In order to get the center pin in the location it needs to be, I will need to move my front hanger forward approx. 4" and I still want if forward another inch. It looks as though the spring hangers are going to be hitting rocks before my tires do. With the current springs I have an almost 90 degree approach. I would be loosing this.:shaking: The other trouble I have is the framework of the f-toy. My tires will contact the tubing and not firewall especially at full turn/stuffed. What to do know? I'm also contemplating going back to PNP and getting stock waggy springs. Any input on the stock waggy's?

Nothing is going to be as short as your current front springs, except a toy 48" pack. Same reason I ditched my F150's on my Ftoy. I modded a RS44004 pack and had good luck. When Im4yotas bought it, he swapped in a 48" toy rear pack when he went to 42's. I think you're stuck with a funky shackle setup.....link it and forget about it :evil:

I believe your correct. I think I have a set of stock rears that I may try up front. The other option I was thinking about was taking a few leaves out of my AP front 5" packs. This may lower it a bit but don't know if this will compromise strength. Especially running the ton springs, thought they might destroy the 3 or 4 leaves left.

Definately wish I had the $$ to link it right now. Have to wait a little bit for that one.:shaking:

sounds like you should mix and match the stock rears with the all pro pack. Use the top couple of leafs from the stock pack in order to move the center pin forward a little more.

I think that may be the way I am leaning. Unfortunately I cut off the stock shackle hanger tubing that sticks out.:shaking::mad3:
Anyone else see some f150 or explorer springs up front?

Never mind!!! :mad3:
I still have the problem of the springs being wider than stock. Which still leaves me with the back hanger problem.:shaking:
So you might be seeing some crazy ass hangers to get the Explorer springs under there. Fawk!

you cut the "stock" style in the frame tubing flush with the frame? How big is the ID of that tube? Could you slide a smaller piece of tubing into it to be the new "wider" hanger, or is the ID simply to small to do that and still have some sort of bushing?

If not, simply cut those hangers out of the frame. Then get a set of these bushings http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=EXP%2D69261&N=700+115&autoview=sku , and some 1.5" ID tubing. You can either run just the new tubes, or plate the frame which I think is the best method.

In order to take the guess work out of how to setup the tubes, this is what I did. My front hanger is exactly 36" wide at its widest point. The actual part the spring hangs from is 1/4" thick steel, and the shoulder of the bushing is 1/4" wide. Therefore I subtracted a 1/2" per side from the width of the hanger for a total width of 35", which is where I set the outside ends of my shackle tubes. For the inside ends, I simply left the tube long when mocking it up, then cut it off at a length that guaranteed no interference with the frame when the shackle swiveled. For the spacer on the shackle, I hung the springs and measured how long of a spacer I would need to keep things parallel.

Maybe split the difference? Re-drill the Exploder springs 2-3" forward and make a milder front hanger?

Maybe split the difference? Re-drill the Exploder springs 2-3" forward and make a milder front hanger?

I had thought about that and I found a ton of posts saying they would fail at the old hole. Don't know if that is true or not, but I've seen posts were guys like Camo said they fail. Anyone have experience with this?

Also had the idea of making custom spring relocation plates that would move the axle forward about 2". But that might be a bit much.

you cut the "stock" style in the frame tubing flush with the frame? How big is the ID of that tube? Could you slide a smaller piece of tubing into it to be the new "wider" hanger, or is the ID simply to small to do that and still have some sort of bushing?

If not, simply cut those hangers out of the frame. Then get a set of these bushings http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=EXP%2D69261&N=700+115&autoview=sku , and some 1.5" ID tubing. You can either run just the new tubes, or plate the frame which I think is the best method.

In order to take the guess work out of how to setup the tubes, this is what I did. My front hanger is exactly 36" wide at its widest point. The actual part the spring hangs from is 1/4" thick steel, and the shoulder of the bushing is 1/4" wide. Therefore I subtracted a 1/2" per side from the width of the hanger for a total width of 35", which is where I set the outside ends of my shackle tubes. For the inside ends, I simply left the tube long when mocking it up, then cut it off at a length that guaranteed no interference with the frame when the shackle swiveled. For the spacer on the shackle, I hung the springs and measured how long of a spacer I would need to keep things parallel.


Great idea. However, my out-boarded spring problem would still exist. I called Sky's Mfg. and talked to them about my problem. He said that the Chevy springs are 31.5" wide and the Dodge are 32.5". Not what I said earlier. He said that making offset shackles to accomodate this would put enormous strain on the bushings causing quick failure. He said the Chevy would be about as wide as you would want to go. He also said there is not enough of a market for the Dodge stuff. Bummer.

I had thought about that and I found a ton of posts saying they would fail at the old hole. Don't know if that is true or not, but I've seen posts were guys like Camo said they fail. Anyone have experience with this?

Also had the idea of making custom spring relocation plates that would move the axle forward about 2". But that might be a bit much.

It seems likley, but I would think keeping the original hole under the pressure of the spring plate may reduce the likelihood.

Great idea. However, my out-boarded spring problem would still exist. I called Sky's Mfg. and talked to them about my problem. He said that the Chevy springs are 31.5" wide and the Dodge are 32.5". Not what I said earlier. He said that making offset shackles to accomodate this would put enormous strain on the bushings causing quick failure. He said the Chevy would be about as wide as you would want to go. He also said there is not enough of a market for the Dodge stuff. Bummer.

I guess I'm kinda confused on why its such a big problem. An inch more puts "enormous" strain on the bushings? I guess I just don't see it as being all that much more. Plus bushings are cheap. If they go bad, replace them. With that link I provided you get four sets, so keep two as spares if need be. If nothing else it gets you back wheeling again. Then if they do wear out to fast for you, link it when you have more time or money

how about this. You're already talking about getting alloy inner shafts. Why not cut down the axle so that the spring perches match the stock toyota hanger width, and get a custom long side inner axle shaft made. I mean with the H2 wheels and DRW hubs you're going to be really wide for a buggy. This would help narrow things up a bit and you wouldn't have the problem with the outboarded hangers

Lostit-not a big deal, just Sky thought it put to much strain on the bushings with the bent shackles.
The other idea I was looking at was exactly what you did. Big spacers, and long bolts through the straight shackles.
Looks like I will be using hyrbrid stock rears with AP springs. And just put the tubes through the frame.
Did you just use the stock shackle location or did you move them back?

my shackle hanger is actually pushed forward. If I remember correctly its up against the seam of the body mount, which I think would put it about an inch forward of stock. I did that in order to better match my front hanger which was 2 inches forward of stock.

As for the shackles, I think the straight style with a spacer and longer bolts will work pretty well. Mine kinda look like shit because I was in a hurry to finish them, but I still plan on going back and cleaning them up some

Did you just come up with your own tubing and square it up, or did you use Sky's kit?
Nice buildup by the way!!

I'm with lostit, lop 3.5" off the longside and bolt it in. Done deal

I'm with lostit, lop 3.5" off the longside and bolt it in. Done deal

I agree completely! Unfortunately, I'm trying to get this thing pounded out in the next couple of weeks and really only have a few days to work on it before I head to the Hammers and just need to get 'er going. Eventually I will be cutting down the axles and link'n it. Trust me, that's what I've wanted to do since I got the axle.

It seems likley, but I would think keeping the original hole under the pressure of the spring plate may reduce the likelihood.

Brian Ellinger used some YJ leaves on his FToy, and has the original holes under the spring plate, IIRC. Said it may be slightly weaker than having a bolt in the hole, but waaay stronger than having the hole outside the spring plate.

I guess I'm kinda confused on why its such a big problem. An inch more puts "enormous" strain on the bushings? I guess I just don't see it as being all that much more. Plus bushings are cheap. If they go bad, replace them. With that link I provided you get four sets, so keep two as spares if need be. If nothing else it gets you back wheeling again. Then if they do wear out to fast for you, link it when you have more time or money

I'm with LostIt.

you cut the "stock" style in the frame tubing flush with the frame? How big is the ID of that tube? Could you slide a smaller piece of tubing into it to be the new "wider" hanger, or is the ID simply to small to do that and still have some sort of bushing?


Are CJ bushings the same diameter as YJ bushings? They're only $9.

I'm pretty sure one of them is the same diameter as Toy bushings. I just measured a frame sitting outside, and Toy tubes are ~1 3/16" dia.

If not, simply cut those hangers out of the frame. Then get a set of these bushings http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=EXP%2D69261&N=700+115&autoview=sku , and some 1.5" ID tubing. You can either run just the new tubes, or plate the frame which I think is the best method.

I'm still confused how there's "lots of pressure on the bushings"....and in my mind, the loads would be the same, whether you've got a bent shackle or a spacer welded to a straight shackle. I did mine a lot like yours....except I didn't plan ahead real well, so I have a combination of the two. My biggest problem with bushing wear is that I over-tightened the shackle bolts.

http://tamor.us/members-rigs/albums/Build-up/100_0052.sized.jpg
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=226139&stc=1&d=1138165195


Are CJ bushings the same diameter as YJ bushings? They're only $9.

I'm pretty sure one of them is the same diameter as Toy bushings. I just measured a frame sitting outside, and Toy tubes are ~1 3/16" dia.

OK. According to Procomp's website:
http://www.explorerprocomp.com/PDFs/07cat/132.pdf

Toy eye = 1.17" dia. (spring 31211L, 31212R)
CJ shackle eye = 1.5" dia (spring 51212, 51222)
CJ frame end eye = 1" dia
YJ all eyes = 1.5" dia (spring 51313, 51323)

I'm guessing the ones you posted:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=EXP%2D69261&N=700+115&autoview=sku
are too big in diameter if ProComp uses a 1.5" spring eye for their aftermarket springs. (but it would fit a Chevy spring, and possibly a Ferd spring great)

Here's a stock replacement CJ bushing kit:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=ENS%2D2%2D2103G&N=700+400008+302291+115&autoview=sku
Energy Suspension lists the same p/n for the ens-2-2103 (rear) and ens-2-2102 (front) for both CJ's and Toys:
http://www.energysuspension.com/pages/toyt1.html

Both of these Summit P/N's are for shackle @ frame, shackle @ spring eye, and also replace the pressed-in spring eye bushing.

Here's an even better bonus option for Toy bushing replacement (and spares):
This ENS-2-2102R listing for CJ's:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=ENS%2D2%2D2102R&N=700+400008+302291+115&autoview=sku

and this ENS-8-2103R listing for Toys:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=ENS%2D8%2D2103R&N=700+400008+302291+115&autoview=sku

both have a dozen red bushings each...so would replace your shackle side bushings all the way around with a pair to spare.

Yeah, I'm sorta bored, but I needed to replace mine, too.

MT-:eek:
Thanks for the info. Some of that should be in FAQ. Lots of good info. Know I have a lot of ideas, measurements, combinations, etc in my head. Now I need to get in the garage and make this shiat happen.:D

I think what sky may have been getting to, is that the way it's done with a chevy axle was already borderline on leverage, but popular enough to warrant a kit, the dodge on the other hand is even wider, more leverage and not popular enough to make a kit for.

Aside from the custom inner, it's only 1-2 hrs work, tops! If you were closer, I'd do it for you. You'll spend more time messing with funky shackles, spacers, holes that don't line up, etc than it would take to grind down the weld and cut it down.

Did you just come up with your own tubing and square it up, or did you use Sky's kit?
Nice buildup by the way!!

nope, built everything myself. Like I said, the bushings I listed above fit in any piece of tubing or pipe with a 1.5" ID. I figured out where I wanted the shackles to go, cut some holes in the frame with a torch, then made some plates with the correct sized hole for the OD" of the tubing I used, and mocked it all up. Once I had it lined up and squared the way I wanted it, I welded it all up.

For the springs bushings I just used the poly bushings meant for them.

For the in frame hanger I used the bushing kit I listed above. With it you get 4 sets 1.5" OD (3/4" ID) bushings, and 4 metal sleeves (two 9/16" and two 1/2" ID). They fit nicely into 1.75x.120 or 2x.250 tubing. Just make sure to use DOM if you can as the seam in the HREW can slowly cut into the bushing from what I've seen. In my case I used 1.75 DOM becuase thats what I had, but its better to use the heavier wall stuff. Another possible option is 1.5" sch 80. It has the correct ID and is over .2 wall. Now remember that since the hangers are wider than normal that you cannot use the sleeves with the bushings since they will be to narrow. I just ran a 3/4 inch bolt and no sleeve, and was careful not to overtighten it. Or just find some 3/4" tubing with an ID to fit the size bolt you want to use and cut it to whatever size you need.

Gotcha--that's great advice, LostIt. 1.5ID tubing is a lot more common than 1.1875 tubing.

I wonder if 1/2" EMT would be stiff enough for a sleeve?

Also, if you're really worried about squaring things up, you can always pull your tranny and t-cases (might not work on a Ftoy with the engine so far back), and just run a single length of tube through both sides of the frame. Just make sure its length matches how wide apart you want the outside of the frame hangers to be. Then center it up, weld it in, and cut out the excess tube in between the frame rails. This will gaurentee you're shackle mounts are in line with each other and the correct overall width

Gotcha--that's great advice, LostIt. 1.5ID tubing is a lot more common than 1.1875 tubing.

I wonder if 1/2" EMT would be stiff enough for a sleeve?

I'm not familiar with that material so I don't know. I also don't know how stiff the tube really has to be since most of the it is supported by the frame. A little gusseting on the inch or so of tubing that does stick out wouldn't hurt though. The biggest reason to run heavier wall tube is to keep it from cutting into the shoulder of the bushing.

Also, if you're really worried about squaring things up, you can always pull your tranny and t-cases (might not work on a Ftoy with the engine so far back), and just run a single length of tube through both sides of the frame. Just make sure its length matches how wide apart you want the outside of the frame hangers to be. Then center it up, weld it in, and cut out the excess tube in between the frame rails. This will gaurentee you're shackle mounts are in line with each other and the correct overall width

If you measure your perch centers (32.5" for Dodge) plus your spring width (2.5" for Toy/Exploder---one half spring width on each side, or 1.25" x 2 = 2.5"), you should be exactly 35.0" outside-outside of tubes...just like LostIt explained farther up....just showing the math in case Fyrdude wants to change something.

Alrighty then!! Updates. I got permission from the 5 month old to get some work done. Got the rear 14 bolt built. Welded the spiders and made a "orb" of traction. Set up the 4.88's and got everything rebuilt. Tacked in the spring pads and then installed the disc brake conversion. Still have to finish running the lines. Here are the pics.

Pinion is pointed at the sky. Downside of having a flat belly.

After all the craziness this is what I came up with on the front end. Rears up front with no hybrid pack. Kept the shackle under the frame with the Marlin shackles. This actually keeps the rig level. Will have to move the shackle hangers back a little to achieve a proper angle. Also, I have very little up travel and mucho down. Had to rotate the hydro. ram to miss the radiator and crankshaft. The pinion was further rotated up using 8 degree shims. I used the flip method to correct the u-bolt plate. I will also be needing to install those bumpstops that have been floating around the garage. Then I still need to redo the shock towers.

Shackle angle is a little on the steep side. 50 degrees, I will relocate the mount back a little.:D

Disc brake conversion.:smokin:

Shim flip trick to keep the studs from sheering. Hope this works.:shaking:

Have to find a way to remove the stock bushing and get new bushings that will fit the bigger bolt. This is the stock size compared to the Marlin bolt. Anyone know where to get these bushings.

Also trying to figure out this. Need to get super long sping pins that will extend longer on the bottom. Anyone? Also hope these don't move around too much. Had to tack weld the shims in because the pins were too short.:shaking:
Any info on were to get these pins?

You will need more spring rate than those stock rears will give you!

Trust me! I just pulled those same packs out of the front of my rig. I could tap the brakes and compress the front to the bumpstops(about 2" of travel). Also when backing up downhill they unloaded a good 6-7". They flexed like mad, but were WAY too soft. I threw in some TG 3" springs I had laying around for the time being until I have time to play with the springs some more.

Sorry to rain on your parade :(

Ary

This is the place I get my bushings.
http://www.bajaconcepts.com/bajaracingproducts/index.cfm?go=tabs.cfm

You'll have to call them to match the right bushing to that bolt.

For the longer spring pin I'd go to Lowes and get a allen head bolt from their bins. Just make sure it's grade 8.

I bet you're just itching to take your FToy out.

You will need more spring rate than those stock rears will give you!

Trust me! I just pulled those same packs out of the front of my rig. I could tap the brakes and compress the front to the bumpstops(about 2" of travel). Also when backing up downhill they unloaded a good 6-7". They flexed like mad, but were WAY too soft. I threw in some TG 3" springs I had laying around for the time being until I have time to play with the springs some more.

Sorry to rain on your parade :(

Ary

Thanks for the heads up. Those springs kept me up last night thinking. I would have to agree with you. I'm going to be adding a couple springs from the bottom of my AP 5" pack to stiffen it up. When I stand on the front it drops down very easily.

This is the place I get my bushings.
http://www.bajaconcepts.com/bajaracingproducts/index.cfm?go=tabs.cfm

You'll have to call them to match the right bushing to that bolt.

For the longer spring pin I'd go to Lowes and get a allen head bolt from their bins. Just make sure it's grade 8.

I bet you're just itching to take your FToy out.

Thanks for the link. As for the allen bolt, I think that will be too short. The current pin sticks out approx. 1/2". I couldn't find anything longer than that at the hardware store. Someone has to carry a pin specifically for this.
Yes, I am "Jones'n" to hit the trail.:D

I dunno how they are out there, but the NAPA near me can get just about anything I need when nobody else can. Sometimes they have to order it, but it usually only takes a day. You might stop by there and ask them. If not, ask around for a local spring shop. The will undoubtedly have what you need.

Edit: Or see if you have a fastenal in your area. They will surely be able to set you up with a longer allen head bolt, although you may have to buy 25 of them :p

Ary

Thanks for the help.:D I'm calling a spring place today. Also, I currently have the rears up front. This is my problem.
The front bushing on the stock spring won't come out and I've heard of this before. Set it up on the press and the fawker just stuck out the other end like a cone.:shaking: The other problem is that the stock bolt hole is way small and won't fit the current bolt that I use for my AP springs and hanger.
I thought I could torch/burn out the rubber. Any other suggestions?
Also, I realized that the spare bushings I have that are for AP/Marlin springs are smaller than the stock hole. Anyone know what bushing I need to get that would fit right in there? Please help me so I can get this stuff ordered so I can get out and wheel.

Take your sawzall and run it along the leaf spring between the main part of the spring and the eye(basically through the gap where the eye wraps around and almost touches back to itself).

This will slice through the sleeve that is the outershell of the bushing. Once you have sliced it, take a screwdriver or chisel and beat it down in between the eye and the sleeve to compress it inwards. After I did that mine just fell out with a few light taps. The new bushings from Marlin won't fit unless you remove the sleeves anyway, so they have to come out regardless.

Good luck!

Oh, and don't be afraid of the PB blaster, it will help loosen the sleeve from the spring eye.

Ordered the Marlin bushings that fit there. Great idea with the sawsall. Going to be doing that tomorrow. As for the shims, I royally screwed up. I drilled the holes in the shims the same size as the pin, not the bolt that goes through.:shaking::mad3: Now I cannot attach the shim to the springs. They are floating. Probably going to need to buy new shims.:mad3:

Actually, instead of buying new shims. I'm going to just weld the shims to the axle with a few small welds. That should do the trick.:D

Also, what do you guys think about that shackle angle. I know how it should sit using the math and trying to keep it perpendicular to the spring. However, since the spring is pretty much flat. Under compression it's basically going negative and the shackle will actually come forward a little. As it flexes it should have a ton movement forward. But at this angle the springs will probably be very soft.

The shackle angle is cherry, considering you don't have a lot of uptravel to work with. If it was more vertical, it would work the springs harder, actually. The springs will be too soft. I cut up another couple of stock toy packs to end up with a 7 leaf pack on mine (no overload). BUPSTOPS for sure!!!!!!!! Bushings can be gotten from TG and probably Marlin to fit the larger greasable bolt. I've had to torch out the stock bushings before. NAPA carries some spring pins. I'm running the Rubicon Express pins in mine.

Thanks Wilson.
I ordered up the bushings from Marlin. They said they have a lot of people calling them for those exact bushings. Should be here Mon. I think I will be adding some springs from the AP 5" springs to tighten up the pack. May even use the bottom springs from the Explorer rear springs. Already have the bumpstops and just have to firure out the measurements.
I'm probably going to pull the back pin and drop the spring to the frame and them have someone stand on the front to get my bumpstop measurement and shock measurement. Hopefully should be done with this axle swap this week.:smokin:

Here is another trick for getting the steel sleeve bushing out of the spring. Drive a screwdriver into the slot where the spring wraps back around on itself. This will spread the eye open some. Then take a large socket that matches the diameter of the sleeve (a 1" craftsmen socket was perfect in my case) and drive the sleeve and bushing out. It should take less than 5-10 minutes to do both springs. One word of caution is to watch for the screwdriver. The force of the spring clamping down can cause it to shoot out at a pretty decent speed.

Thanks for the info. I think I may try that before I go to the sawsall. :smokin:

Here's an idea for an uber-bling front shackle hanger:
http://shutter15.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/13/006/2B/BF/1D/12/mqUAApALkc8Dq4tH6WTXxK+AT6RRsSCh0300.jpg

From mrtwstr's Blanco Basura build: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7293385&postcount=12

Obviously it's a front link mount...but would look insanely cool as a shackle tube.

I got to see that thing in my front yard. Fawkin' awsome!!! Toby is the shiznit!:smokin: He turns out some quality work. It would take me forever to copy that stuff. But would definately look cool. Who knows, maybe if I get bored this summer I may try something like that. Next year I want to get my buggy down to Toby and have him link it up.

Ok hydro guru's! Need your help. I have a PSC full hydro setup. Following Howe's bleeding instructions for full hydro systems. Poured fluid into the resevoir and it doesn't go anywhere. What the hell? Cracked the hoses at the bottom and gave it a few turns on the engine. Nothing. Fluid goes nowhere. What the hell? Am I missing something. Resevoir is already mounted above the pump and then unbolted it and held it even higher. Nothing. Checked to make sure all my lines are going to the right places and they are. Any secrets, short of throwing it across the garage?:shaking:

Don't know what the problem is, but sounds like maybe vapor lock. Can you push the cylinder back and forth(maybe by manually turning the wheels) to draw some fluid down into the ram? Maybe that will break the air lock and get you going? Just an idea.

I'll give anything a shot. Thanks for the tip. I think I'm gonna close up the garage now because I'm about to pass out from exhaustion from working on this thing.:shaking:

Are the wheels jacked up? Initial bleed is supposed to be done on jack stands, then drop it down and cycle it under load to bleed the remaining air out. If you're already on stands, try cycling the cylinder manually like Arya suggested.

QUOTE] I think I'm gonna close up the garage now because I'm about to pass out from exhaustion from working on this thing.[/QUOTE]

Your kill'n me. Would you please post some pics. All I can do is web wheel right now and I need some entertainment. :grinpimp::p

Thanks FM <><

Chuck, hope your doing well. I'll try to post up pics. of the progress. Almost have it done. Been up every night till 1 am trying to get it ready for this next weekend. Tons of pics. to post of progress, just need the time.:D
I'll give you a call later.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e191/SCHooch1/SC4WDC%20Rubicon%2007/100_2521.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e191/SCHooch1/SC4WDC%20Rubicon%2007/100_2502.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e191/SCHooch1/SC4WDC%20Rubicon%2007/100_2495.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e191/SCHooch1/SC4WDC%20Rubicon%2007/100_2466.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e191/SCHooch1/SC4WDC%20Rubicon%2007/100_2461.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e191/SCHooch1/SC4WDC%20Rubicon%2007/100_2444.jpg

:flipoff2:


http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e191/SCHooch1/SC4WDC%20Rubicon%2007/100_2569.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e191/SCHooch1/SC4WDC%20Rubicon%2007/100_2568.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e191/SCHooch1/SC4WDC%20Rubicon%2007/100_2567.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e191/SCHooch1/SC4WDC%20Rubicon%2007/100_2566.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e191/SCHooch1/SC4WDC%20Rubicon%2007/100_2564.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e191/SCHooch1/SC4WDC%20Rubicon%2007/100_2562.jpg

Bust the caliper? Soft line?

Do you think you lost the ubolt first or the welded shim?

NICE! That makes me wish I would have just put my FFour chassis right on my 1 ton Sub. Where were the pics taken at?

Thank you for the pics. SCHOOCH!! Had a great time, wish we could have had more time to wheel. Less time fixing. I also need to add the videos.

Bust the caliper? Soft line?

Do you think you lost the ubolt first or the welded shim?

No caliper destruction. Seals blew apart.
Definately lost the welded shim. Don't recommend welding the shims. The whole different metal thing happens. The welds just tear the metal out of the casting of the 60.

NICE! That makes me wish I would have just put my FFour chassis right on my 1 ton Sub. Where were the pics taken at?

Pics. are from Rubicon

Will be posting up the build pics. later but got it all done and on the trail for its maiden voyage. Stayed up too many long nights until 3 am. trying to get it ready for this past weekend. Ran into a few problems on the run. First, I don't reccomend welding to the centersection. Lost a welded on shim that way. Second, don't suck your shoulder harness into your driveline, it will ruin your seat. Third, install all seals correctly or they will leak.
Had to clearance a bunch of metal off the Yukon ears to get more steering out of the front end.

Seriously though, everything worked awsome. 42's are the shiat!! Love the front springs and flex. Very stable rig. Love the full width upgrade, I would reccomend it to anyone. Some minor details to straighten out.
The steering has a Hayden 401 cooler in front of the radiator and works great for a little while. After the fluid heats up though I begin to lose steering. Need to upgrade to a fan cooled unit.
I will also be redoing the shims and bolting them directly to the spring, as you should. No more welding.
Need to add bumpstops to the back springs, they hit the chassis hard.
Need to destroke the ram about 1/2" per side so I don't use the stops as the end of the steering.
Also need to get some Staun beadlocks
Also replace hub seals.

I also added a Chevy 1 ton master cylinder into the brakes that works pretty killer when your brakes aren't covered in oil. Will post up tech on a cool bracket that was super easy to build.

A couple of vids. of Soup Bowl and Soup Kitchen.

Soup Kitchen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1X6_VuFhjU

Soup Bowl http://youtube.com/watch?v=qeMVl3iuT4M

Thanks to SCHOOCH for these. Awsome vid.

Next up will be the 4.3 and auto tranny upgrade.
Also, rear seats will be added.

Next up will be the 4.3 and auto tranny upgrade.
Also, rear seats will be added.

Do I finally get my own seat? :D

Really good to see pictures of Double Wide on the trail. You did an awsome job.

A couple of vids. of Soup Bowl and Soup Kitchen.

Soup Kitchen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1X6_VuFhjU

Soup Bowl http://youtube.com/watch?v=qeMVl3iuT4M

Thanks to SCHOOCH for these. Awsome vid.

Yeah--awesome vids! Looks like your rig works great!!

Do I finally get my own seat? :D

Really good to see pictures of Double Wide on the trail. You did an awsome job.

You betcha ya.:D And thanks for all your help.:smokin:
Couldn't have gotten this thing done without your help. Wish I would have taken pics. of you "machining" out the front wheels. Thanks again for all the help.

Yeah--awesome vids! Looks like your rig works great!!

Thanks! I'm keeping an eye on your build now. Can't wait to see the first F-toy in Montana out on the trail.:smokin:

Looks great man. How does that trans feel? I am still trying to get mine running. Keep up the good work.

Looks great man. How does that trans feel? I am still trying to get mine running. Keep up the good work.

Still haven't had a chance to get that engine/tranny combo in yet. That's this winters project. Will start that hopefully this month. Stay tuned for the pics. Hopefully that tranny works. What stall torque converter are you going to run. If I remember right you were running the stock stall converter with that tranny.