I have been toying around the idea of doing a spring over with my 2.5" springs on my CJ5. I have come to the conlusion that I would probably not be a good idea to keep the narrow track axles with that much lift. I usually get my information on JU but the guys over there put talk much about axle swaps and such... I've tried a search on here but I still don't know what would be the best way to go. My whole goal of my jeep is to also keep it streetable since I am only 17 and its my only vehicle. It would also be nice to keep the cost of this project on the low(er) side:rolleyes:

So with that being said, which axles should I be looking for to swap in? I've read that I could find a waggy AMC20 that would already have 1-piece axles and would be about 58". What years do I need to look for? Also, what should I get for the front? Is there an axle out there that is about the same width as the waggy 20? The biggest tire I will probably run is about 35's so I don't need a godly axle:p(unless I can set it up for cheap:))

Any other tips would be of great help. Thanks.

P.S. Hope you don't rip on me too much:emb4:

What I did was:
I kept the D30 front and found a Scout D44 rear with the same gearing. The axle was $75 (needed brakes) but it will take the same rims as a Jeep CJ.

If you want to swap the front also, I would go with axles from a Full Size Jeep (Wagoneers, pre 83 Cherokees and J-Trucks). Look for the D44 front and rear. You will need new rims too.

Personally I went with Scout 44's front and rear... you'd have to outboard the spring hangers, but since you're going SOA, it's not that much more work. If you get the axles from the same scout you wouldn't have to worry about regearing right now.

Originally posted by 1978CJ5er
I have been toying around the idea of doing a spring over with my 2.5" springs on my CJ5

The biggest tire I will probably run is about 35's so I don't need a godly axle:p(unless I can set it up for cheap:))

P.S. Hope you don't rip on me too much

Well you searched first so you won't get it too bad :D :D

Others have answered your specific axle question. But you might want to rethink that SOA on 2.5" springs for 35" tires. I know you have them already, but you are going to be WAY up there on those springs. Going wider is smart, but I'd think about a flatter spring and trimming the body (if even necessary) to fit the 35s with the flat spring.

And just for good measure: Welcome Newbie! :flipoff2: :D

Personally I went with Scout 44's front and rear... you'd have to outboard the spring hangers, but since you're going SOA, it's not that much more work. If you get the axles from the same scout you wouldn't have to worry about regearing right now.

I went a waggy 44 rear, scout 44 front.

35s will fit with min trimming if non at all. I would go flat wrangler springs and get ride of the narrow springs that are on there

Personally if your on a budget then i wouldnt attempt a axle swap and soa. Todo it right you will basiclly need to rebuild the front end and rear end.

Steve

i have an old waggy rear end that i want to put under my jeep, and i want to get a amtching dana 44 front, how much wider is the front scout dana 44 than the stock Waggy dana 44 front :confused:

I am in the same situation as 78cj5er, being a student and all at 17 the only difference is i already have a 44 in the rear and when i go spring over with cj-7 springs since they are wider and a little longer i want to swap a 44 in up front since it is easier to do crossover steering. what is the difference in widths with stock cj axels and Scout axels or waggy axels. which would be better.

At one time or another, everyone has talked about slapping a couple Scout Dana 44 axles under their rig. With the 5 on 5-1/2" lugs, they're a natural for a CJ. Which year? What tread width? What ratios were offered that year? Here are some answers to those burning questions.

Jefe's year-by-year description of INTERNATIONAL SCOUT Axles
Starting with the appearance of Dana 44's
1967 Scout 800: rr axle, Dana 44 track: 55.1" ratios: 3.73/4.27/4.88
1968 Scout 800: rr axle, Dana 44 track: 53.875.1" ratios: 4.27/4.88
1969 Scout 800A: rr axle, Dana 44 track: 55.7" ratios: 3.31/3.73/4..27
1970 Scout 800A: rr axle, Dana 44 track: 55.7" ratios: 3.31/3.73/4..27
1971 ScoutII 800B: rr axle, Dana 44 track: 57.1" ratios: 3.31/3.73/4.27
1972 ScoutII 800C: rr axle, Dana 44 track: 57.1" ratios: 3.31/3.73/4.27
1973 ScoutII 800C: rr axle, Dana 44 track: 57.1" ratios: 3.31/3.73/4.27
frnt axle, Dana 44 (option w/V8) track: 57.1: ratios: 3.31/3.73/4.27
1974 ScoutII 800C: rr axle, Dana 44 track: 57.1" ratios: 3.31/3.73/4.27
frnt axle, Dana 44 (option/V8/Disc) track: 57.1" ratios: 3.31/3.73/4.27
1975 ScoutII 800C: rr axle, Dana 44 track: 57.1" ratios: 4.09/opt: 3.07/3.54
frnt axle, Dana 44 stock w/ disc track: 57.1"
1976 ScoutII 800C: rr axle, Dana 44 track: 57.1" ratios: 4.09/opt: 3.07/3.54
frnt axle, Dana 44 stock w/ disc track: 57.1"
1977 ScoutII 800C: rr axle, Dana 44 track: 57.1" ratios: 4.09/opt: 3.07/3.54
frnt axle, Dana 44 stock w/ disc track: 57.1"

1978 ScoutII 800C: rr axle, Dana 44 track: 57.1" ratios: 3.54 V8w3 and wide 4 spd. manual trans. 3.07w/ 4 spd close and auto trans. 4.09 w/diesel wide. : 3.73w/diesel close ratio 4spd. Opt: 3.54/3.73/4.09
frnt axle, Dana 44 stock w/ disc track: 57.1"

1979 ScoutII 800C: rr axle, Dana 44 track: 57.1" ratios: 3.54 V8w3 and wide 4 spd. manual trans. 3.07w/ 4 spd close and auto trans. 4.09 w/diesel wide. : 3.73w/diesel close ratio 4spd. Opt: 3.54/3.73/4.09
frnt axle, Dana 44 stock w/ disc track: 57.1"

1980 ScoutII 800C; rr axle, Dana 44 track: 57.62" ratios: V8: 2.73 or 3.31. opt. w/V8: 3.54. Towingpkg: 345-V8/3.73. Diesel: 3.73, 3.54opt.
frnt axle, Dana 44 stock w/ disc track: 58.5"

All front Dana 44's were of the open Cardigan design. All rear Dana 44 axles were semi floating in design. Notice the 1967 through 1970 axles the width was very close to the wide track Jeep CJ axles of the 1981-86 eara All axles listed are of the 5 on 5.5" lug pattern.

<SNIP>

Subject: D44- FSJ Wag. axle ID
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 07:08:30 -0500
From: Dave Jacobs <DJacobs@Northland-Elec.com>
Subject: RE: JPOR: FSJ identification ?'s

Stay away from the one with the vacuum canister. It's for the vacuum
disconnect system. I was looking for spare Wagoneer shafts for my Wrangler
w/D44 setup and took one of these apart. The long shaft is ok, same as
others, but the short side has this real thick axle shaft. So they have some
goofy differential stuck in there. The '70's and early 80's models don't
have the track bar on front axle. The mid 80's do and have the AMC HD 20 in
the rear. For years during the '70s and '80s you could ID the year of the
vehicle by looking at the rear tail light and see a date on it. Not sure if
AMC did this. Wag's didn't change much!

<SNIP>

Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 06:30:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Paul W." <a4xnut@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: JPOR: FSJ identification ?'s

The SJ vacuum disconnect was only available in 81-85 models with a Selec-Trac
(NP228 or NP229) t-case. All the others (ALL 63-80 & 86-92 as well as 81-85's
with Command-Trac or Quadra-Trac) have non-disco front ends.

Paul

Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:20:08 -0500 (CDT)
From: Obi-Wan <bvh@inetnebr.com>
Subject: Re: JPOR: FSJ identification ?'s

The AMC 20 rear was used '80-'86. The D44 front was used on all FSJ's.
A 61" axle width would make it a Wagoneer or narrow-track Cherokee.
Most Cherokees and all Wagoneers used full-time t-cases & therefor
had no locking hubs. The best way to identify the year is to grab the
VIN number and go look at http://home.off-road.com/~ifsja/tech/figures/

> Does anyone know what the backspacing is on these factory aluminum
> rims?

Not off the top of my head. They most likely varied year-to-year,
and my '77 Wag's wheel aren't stock anyway.

> Will the front shafts work in my homebuilt high pinion 44?

If you've made the tubes the right length, yes. 30 spline, 297 joints.

The Grand Wag was made '84-91. The name change was made when the XJ
was introduced in '84 and took over the Wagoneer & Cherokee monikers.
The AMC 20 was used through mid-'86, after which they switched to a D44
rear. As Paul said, run far away from the vacuum disco front axle.
All GW's had the vacuum-actuated 2/4WD switch under the dash. They
also all have low range levers -- they're located on the side of the
tranny hump, almost under the driver's seat. They'd be hard to see
just by looking through the window. As before, the VIN number is the
best way to identify the exact year.

-- Obi-Wan
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff [mailto:jayers@win.bright.net]
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2000 5:51 PM
To: JPOR; xjdigest
Subject: JPOR: FSJ identification ?'s

I stopped by a real small salvage yard and found a Wagoneer
today, but I
do have some questions on it. The guy had no idea what year
it was. It
had a Model 20 rear and a model 44 front. It had no
lockouts and
measured approximately 61" center of tire to center of tire
with stock
12 spoke aluminum wheels. Can anybody identify the year of
this thing?
Does anyone know what the backspacing is on these factory
aluminum
rims? Will the front shafts work in my homebuilt high
pinion 44? Also,
on the way home I ran into two other Wagoneers that looked
real similar
to the one in the yard. The first one had a model 20 rear
and a 44
front. The front diff cover had a fitting for a vacuum
canister with at
least three lines going to it. I don't recall the junk yard
unit having
this fitting. The cab had a vacuum switch to engage 4wd and
no low
range lever. The second one I saw had D44's front and rear
and no
vacuum thing on the front cover. It did have the cab switch
and no low
range though. Neither of the two seen on the street had
lockouts. I
believe they were both labeled "Grand Wagoneer". Anybody
want to fill
me in on the years and stats for these rigs? Thanks for the
inf. Jeff

<SNIP>

Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 10:54:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Paul W." <a4xnut@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: JPOR: FSJ identification ?'s

Obi-Wan <bvh@inetnebr.com> wrote:
> Most Cherokees and all Wagoneers used full-time t-cases & therefor
> had no locking hubs. The best way to identify the year is to grab the
> VIN number and go look at http://home.off-road.com/~ifsja/tech/figures/

I beg to differ with that statement. The NP208 Command-Trac was standard
equipment in both SJ Cherokees and Wagoneers in 80-82 models at least. NP229
Selec-Trac became the standard issue t-case in 83 model Wagoneers. However,
since the vast majority of Wagoneers sold were loaded, _most_ will have the
Quadra-Trac... but not all. Six cylinder SJ's have the highest likelyhood of
sporting a NP208, since these are also the most likely to be base models
(exception - certain model years the 258 or the 360 didn't meet CA emissions
requirements, so CA destined rigs are most suspect to "break" this theory ;)

> > Will the front shafts work in my homebuilt high pinion 44?
>
> If you've made the tubes the right length, yes. 30 spline, 297 joints.

Many (all?) the disconnect versions of the SJ D44 have 260 joints... another
reason to steer clear of this axle.

Paul

<SNIP>

Jeep Axle
Tread Widths
compiled by Jefe, 12-26- 98. These are factory specs measured from center on stock wheel/tire to center of stock wheel/tire. With the usual off set of wheels, 2-4", each side, the actual WMS to WMS will be wider. These numbers are for comparison.

'41 to 45 Jeep MB: 48.25"
'46 up CJ-2A, CJ-3A : 48.25"
'49-65 Jeep Utility Wagon: 57"
'49 Willys Jeepster 2WD 57"
'52 up CJ-3B: 48.44"
'52 M-38A 49.19" (Military width)
'54-71 CJ-5 48.44" (so called early-
'55-75 CJ-6 48.44" narrow axle)
'47-65 Pickup (the classic) frnt-56" rr-63.5"
'63-69 J-200, J-2000 65.5"
'63-69 J-300, J-3800 65.75"
'70- 72, Gladiator J-2000 frnt-63.5" rr-63.81"
'70- 72, Gladiator J-4000 frnt-63.8" rr-64.38"
'73 J-2500 frnt-63.5" rr-63.8"
'73 all other J trucks frnt-63.9" rr-64.4"
'74-75 J-10 frnt-62.9" rr-63.8"
'76-87 J-10 frnt-63.3" rr-63.8"
'74-75 J-20 frnt-62.9" rr-64.4"
with disc brakes: frnt-63.0" rr-64.4"
'76-84 J-20 frnt-64.9" rr-65.9"
'63-72 Wagoneer 57"
'73 Wagoneer frnt-57.3" rr-57.5"
'74-75 Wagoneer frnt-59" rr-57.5"
'74-75 Cherokee (full size) frnt-58.8' rr-57.5"
'76-91 Wagoneer, '80+ Cher frnt-59.4" rr-57.8"
'76-79 Cherokee (full size) frnt-59.2" rr-57.8"
'76-78 Cherokee S frnt-59.5" rr-58.5"
'76-80 Cherokee Chief 2 dr. frnt-65.4" rr-62.3"
'81-83 Cherokee Chief 2 dr. frnt-65.3" rr-62.3"
'67-71 Jeepster C-101 50"
'72-73 Commando C-104 frnt-51.5" rr-50"
'72-83 CJ-5, frnt-51.5" rr-50" (so called-
'76-81CJ-7(some '81CJ8's) frnt-51.5" rr-50" narrow axle)
'82-86 CJ-7 frnt-55.8" rr-55" (so called-
'81-85 Scrambler, CJ-8 frnt-55.8" rr-55" wide axle )
'84-87, 93 up Cherokee XJ 58"
'88-92 Cherokee XJ 57"
'86-92 Comanche, 57"
'87 up Wrangler, YJ 58"
'93 up Grand Cherokee, ZJ 58"

Did anybody actually read all of that? Talk about information overload!

Yep, like a good newbie, I searched and read it all.

BUMP for the good info, thanks jefe.

a buddy of mine had dana44's front and rear great little rig for on and off-road use.

If you want to run a axle that requires the front spring mounts to be remounted outside the frame, I would recomend a Jeep Wagoneer dana 44 NOT a Scout 44. The scout 44's have 0 caster which means your jeep will wander aimlessly on the road. Another option (the one I would take) is cut down a chevy 44 to fit your stock spring perches and be about 62" wide. This would allow you to run junkyard axle shafts so spares are easy to find and cheap. Also this keeps the springs in stock location and allows full lock to lock steering without rubbing as much on the springs with big tires. Any setup will require welding so they are all fairly labor intensive

Hey, NE-Rocktoy:

Which axle, the Waggy or the Chevy would be best for a SUA on a CJ? And when you say junkyard spare axles for that chevy dana 44, what do you do about the long side you cut down? Use long side axles from a Waggy or other donor that isn't as wide?

Tmartin a Waggie axle is already set up for SUA.

For the Chevy question you cut 4" out of the long side. Then use any '80-91 Wagoneer long side axle shaft which is exactly 4" shorter than a stock Chevy long side shaft. Pre-80 Waggies are a different lenght, so it has to be a drivers drop version. Works best with SOA though since the pads are already set up for it.

Who dug up this old thread anyhow??

Originally posted by CSP

Who dug up this old thread anyhow??

I did. You all keep telling us newbies to fawkin search stuff, so I did. You called jefe's info overload, but it had some good stuff, so I bumped it up for all us newbies searching for this info.

:)

Damn, I remember posting this back in my uninformed days. I ended up using a D44 out of a waggy for the front and a D44 in the rear (not sure what it came out of, has ford bearings). But all is good and it kicks ass so I am happy :D

ok ok .sorry for digging up an old thread but atleast i searched first.....I have a 8 lug 44 front out of a dodge(about an 80 model i think).....well what I wondering is will the usually chop of 4" off the logside and use a waggy shaft work like the chevy..or is the dodge not as compatible?...thanks