We've been busy around here, and have had a chassis now since April. We've gotten new processes in place, and are now on top of the entire works. So what better to do than build a new rig?!

We're starting with our old 85 EFI truck, Im sure many of you recall. It has sat, been scavenged, started rebuilt etc over the last 3 years.

From previous life

As it sat, ride height with 40's.

Its last trip out, was bit rough. I blew a 4.88 pinion head in half, and was reminded that spring clamps are a good thing.

This was a 6 leaf pack. The bottom one was broken clean off. Hooked over a rock, and had to back up.

A few other tricks were done here. A little bit of tubbing....

FYI, the sheetmetal is up for grabs, PM if youre interested.

Just one of the reason the stock mounting of tcase crossmembers is not on our favorites list.

This was a standard cab/short bed truck. It was replaced with an extra bed with 9" cut from the front, and 11" from the rear. We moved the gas tank up, had to hammer the top of the tank to do it. However the "horsecollar" xmember barely cleared with the 2" body lift, so this was the solution. The 2 peice crossmember was cut from another frame, fully seam welded together, then notched and plated, and welded in place.

Before the cab was installed, the rockers were sut when it was tubbed. The back side was cut out, and the outside panel (normally visible at ~45 degrees). The outside was folded into what was left of the inner ~1/2" and welded back together. This truck was built to be low, and this allowed the sliders to be moved up a few inches, gaining needed clearance at the doors.

The 40's didnt like where the battery lived, so one tire got jealous and tried to move in!

After we yanked the body, bumpers, wiring, etc, we started mocking up one our our laser cut, IFS Box Mount Kits.

Youll notice on the 2nd pic, the sleeve butts to the outer plate, making it very strong.

This hideous cluster I am not dealing with. Its going straight to OffroadSolutions.com I think those guys know yota wiring better than the guys who built it! So off it goes for a stripped down, simple plug-n-play setup.

Nice rig. Looking forward to more updates(pics).:beer:

After we yanked the body, bumpers, wiring, etc, we started mocking up one our our laser cut, IFS Box Mount Kits.

I have a box mount kit from Marlin Crawler that looks similar, except it isn't cut diagonally at the ends. One thing I noticed is that the shape of the plate on the MC setup places the mounting holes at the factory positions when pushed all the way forward to the body mount. Is this also true of your box mount kit?

I have a box mount kit from Marlin Crawler that looks similar, except it isn't cut diagonally at the ends. One thing I noticed is that the shape of the plate on the MC setup places the mounting holes at the factory positions when pushed all the way forward to the body mount. Is this also true of your box mount kit?

I placed mine in the same place as Brian did and it's foward of the stock postion. I had to drill new holes. Brian's kit is beefy.

edit: It worked out perfect, my axle is 2.5"-3" foward of stock.

Looking good, keep us updated.

I have a box mount kit from Marlin Crawler that looks similar, except it isn't cut diagonally at the ends. One thing I noticed is that the shape of the plate on the MC setup places the mounting holes at the factory positions when pushed all the way forward to the body mount. Is this also true of your box mount kit?

Stomper nailed it. Ours is designed from an 85 runner (wife's old rig) with an IFS box mounted as far forward, and as high up as possible, without cutting the radiator support out. Of course folks have used it as a base, and cut the front for moving the box more forward even.

The angle cuts are for preventing cracks. They face different directions on each end of the different sized plates. This keeps loads spread out, not concentrated for, you guessed it, no cracks.

Gotta love the red '85 xtra cabs!


I have one myself.. (http://www.lordsofevolution.com/haggar/images/wheeling/canada/06/haggar5.jpg)

Now I'm just waiting for my front axle from ya so I can go to Harlan....:grinpimp:

I liked the old body/bed style. What are you going to do with the new one body-wise? Is that #44 an F-toy SN?

And do the new processes mean your r10 crossmembers will be shipping soon? :D

http://home.4x4wire.com/erik/pics/bash00/brianellinger.jpg

I liked the old body/bed style. What are you going to do with the new one body-wise? Is that #44 an F-toy SN?

And do the new processes mean your r10 crossmembers will be shipping soon? :D

http://home.4x4wire.com/erik/pics/bash00/brianellinger.jpg

i think it is going to be f-toy #44 that he has had for a yaer or so:flipoff2:

edit; some how you hit your edit as i quoted you:flipoff2:
mike

wrong forum fawker ... you going to be in globe?

Is there a F Toy being built somewhere in this thread?

wrong forum fawker ... you going to be in globe?


Fawk yeah he is. We've got some work to do ;)

looks like a good starting base, cant wait to see an update. Btw thanks for the axle. this is Pat in california with the PASSENGER DROP TACOMA front.http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b225/nomayota/sasd4_6848.jpg Its in and i think you nailed the pinion angle on the headhttp://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b225/nomayota/highlakes3-3_7107.jpgThanks!!!!

Yes, its going Ftoy. We got a chassis at the 06 Jambo. Its been sitting since.

As for clocked xmembers, in stock, we've been making them for a bit over a year now I think.

Pics coming soon, we're trying to get my 6'2" too-tall-for-the-chassis in there.

Brian are you going to trail test it? looking good man.

later tj

Brian are you going to trail test it? looking good man.

later tj

Of course! And air test it too... :evil:

Of course! And air test it too... :evil:

Liar!!!!! Only TG tests things. :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

Liar!!!!! Only TG tests things. :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

Whats that line... "i reject reality and substitute my own" No we work in reality.

But we'll keep the tg junk where it belongs, in their threads, calling them on the lies.

As for clocked xmembers, in stock, we've been making them for a bit over a year now I think.

Well then hurry up and send me the one I ordered a few weeks ago! :flipoff2:

I miss spoke, we were out of bushings, youll ship today or tommorrow.

Holy hijacking batman!

Whats that line... "i reject reality and substitute my own" No we work in reality.

But we'll keep the tg junk where it belongs, in their threads, calling them on the lies.

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

Back on track, and hopefully ya'll will keep it there, TECH.

Got the frame stripped down to 1 front xmember, and the stock front hangers (for now)

Weighed the frame, hit 150# cut to 152"

Looks like the several years of wheeling started to take its toll.

Upsidedown frame, cracking at the front hanger, and the tow hook hole, driver's side.

Full frame with a tube tacked at the back to maintain width.

Toyota apparently missed the weld here, but we fixed and welded it up.

Here's an example of why we make this Steering Box Mount Kit.

Hole where a sleeve used to be!

We started filling holes in the frame. Rather than going after the whole frame we are filling as we go. That way if we want to use some of the holes, they arent already gone!

We started swing the drivetrian in first. Logic was 6" back, we've sinced move to the full 8" back, and 1" down.

We used on of our tcase xmembers to be a reference for level. You can see a ratchet strap as well. We pulled on the intake to the hoist, and using the xmember for level, made the drivetrain level side to side. There is a piece of angle sclamped to the frame rails for the drain of the tcase to sit on since this Ftoy is getting a flat belly.

With the drivetrain positioned, we built the motor mounts.

Staring with the stock block mount, we spun up a tube in the lathe for some spring bushings. Little more tube and flat later, WALLA! There are 3/16 scab plates on the inside of the frame running full height. We may gusset the top as well for handling engine weight on landings.

With the drivetrain positioned, we moved on to setting the chassis.

First we leveled the chassis, and frame. Then plumb bobbed the chassis, grille hoop, and frame.

For reference the chassis is ~1/2" above the frame rail.

The large round xmember was removed from through the frame for weight reasons, plus is was unnecassary. The hole was driving me nuts, so a little more lathe spinning, and a pair of .050 thick plugs were made. Tacked in, and sanded smooth, much better!

With the front and back of the chassis tacked in place, we went ahead and tossed som horizontal support legs. Here is the 1.5" tube is sitting high on the 1.75 Hendriz chassis. It it notched offset. The idea being the raock will ride on the rail parrt, and not hit weld or tube on the way by. Also, if we do skidplate, the plate will be even or recessed.

For an idea of radiator size, we mocked up what we already had.

Sitting on a plate we've got an 8k warn winch, and Taurus fan. The fan is blocked up with scrap to get it high enough that the winch line can feed out under the radiator, then under the grill hoop, but above the frame.

Its all a snug fit, but I think we can stuff it all in!

This is the plate the mess is sitting on. 10g stainless prototype skidplate.

Now the real fun begins!

Figure this:
3" thick padded seat
helmet on my noggin
3" from helmet to roof and closest tubes
chassis a little above the frame, but not much
ME, ~6'2"

So 10 lb in the 5 lb... Somethings gotta give!

The silver line is the cut going into the frame. The "ME" is my butt posistion in the seat. The "full back" is the inch left in seat rails. This is so taller folks can run it, and so I can run it wearing coveralls and anything in the closet for snow wheeling in zero degree weather! The angle, is simply the angle the seat slides at, and the angle of the bottom of the seat. And yes, we are planning to skid the outside of the seat!

Cool! Makes me want to build an F-Toy.

Keep up this level of detail and explaining the decisions--Thank You in advance!

Holy hot foot!

Thinking kevlar boots!

And here we have the comp legal garden... Thinking a little water, TLC, and some seeds. Walla, trail eats!

Looks good. Cant wait to see it finished.

Subscribed. :D

:smokin:

With the drivetrain positioned, we built the motor mounts.

Staring with the stock block mount, we spun up a tube in the lathe for some spring bushings. Little more tube and flat later, WALLA! There are 3/16 scab plates on the inside of the frame running full height. We may gusset the top as well for handling engine weight on landings.

I just started making motor mounts just like these. I thought I was doing something new and cool. This thing is looking good so far. I pick my chassis up this weekend and will start a buildup thread soon.:smokin:

looking good

Very nice.

Thanks for taking the time to post up the details, and the pics.

I'll pick up the cab and bed on my way up to South Dakota next month if you still have them Brian.

I'll pick up the cab and bed on my way up to South Dakota next month if you still have them Brian.

Doing another build?

That's what I'm wondering. Although, last I heard, Harry's got more vehicles than he knows what to do with. :D
Another project for his dad, perhaps?

Bed, and cab are awaiting your arrival! Fenders are still on the cab, hood's still there, and doors, I think those might be missing some guts by then!

Working on some pics, Ill update this build shortly.

Ahh, slow updates. We've got a bit more done, we just have to make sure we keep up in the shop with customer orders! Like this one, and the rear to go with it.

We couldnt resist anymore, we had to get the bling grill from Hendrix tacked in with the headlights!

We also got started on the belly support structure. All 'moly tubing for weight and strength. We need to put in front-to-back stringers, skid, etc. But this did help up determine the muffler was NOT going to fit under the driver's seat!

Here's the tcase mount we tacked in.

We used one of our Xmember Center Plates of course!
http://frontrangeoffroadfab.com/nfoscomm/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=35&osCsid=01757cfe221331a25088a1e3a9576d33
http://frontrangeoffroadfab.com/nfoscomm/catalog/images/My-camera-026_main.jpg?osCsid=05deec1840b94ba5294f7d499ef1e1 b7
Just a spring bushing, with a sleeve, and bolt running through the whole way. And naturally more 4130 tubing serving for the belly pan mount is whats supporting it.

Front hangers built. Needs some boxing, but good enough to roll around with weight.

needs dimples

Those are going to be some nice hangers! Can't wait to see them boxed in.

needs dimples

x2, but too late for that.

its never too late. cutting wheel, grinding, dimple, and some welding.

brian wont do it though cause hes gay

its never too late. cutting wheel, grinding, dimple, and some welding.

Ya know, you've got a point. Besides, I see a little pit at the end of that weld. Probably needs to be cut off anyway :flipoff2:

Holy hot foot!

Thinking kevlar boots!

I remember that! Makes you wonder where the hell everything will mount from thin air.

How close can the floor be to the exhaust? Mine looks the same right now!

We're not dimpling the hanger its 3/16, ever try to dimple that?!

More updates

Built the inboard rear spring hangers. These are set at factory front spring width.

And no we arent dimpling these either, more 3/16. Also, note the gussets welded flat to the frame.

On an interesting, bordering retentive note, with the holes in the front hanger, and these holes, we saved over 1.25 lbs on the vehicle!

Rear shackle hanger tube.

We bored holes into the frame (saved more weight!) for strength, and slipped this tube in. The shackles will hang from it.

On an interesting, bordering retentive note, with the holes in the front hanger, and these holes, we saved over 1.25 lbs on the vehicle!


But now you justify carrying one more beer:D

We're not dimpling the hanger its 3/16, ever try to dimple that?!

i thought you had to have a minimum of 3 dimples to be class legal?

Rear shackle hanger tube.

We bored holes into the frame (saved more weight!) for strength, and slipped this tube in. The shackles will hang from it.

Is there supposed to be a picture to go with that? :confused:

i thought you had to have a minimum of 3 dimples to be class legal?

We've still got a few other things to build. Only problem is, everything (like rear xmember) are going to take serious hits, so 10g dimple died is still going to get smashed up. Right now Im not sure what I can dimple on this thing.

BTW, anyone got a good source on AR plate in CO?

Maybe we'll have to run exhibition? :laughing: Then we can use the cutting brakes and disconnect too! :evil:

sounds like a question for the BOD.

the rig looks like its starting to take shape. i cant wait to see what you got instore. hopefully ill see ya sometime this year.

Pic for above post, the rear xmember.

As for the beer, I only drink in camp, and cant stand beer, Im more a marg kinda guy! :D

Just realized we haven't elaborated on goals, plans for this Ftoy.

So, here's the details:
-Flat belly, shooting for 20"
-Lowest CG as possible
-As light as reasonable.
-Very good departure angle
-High travel, planning 10" MINIMUM vertical, maxing shocks on articulation
-Very good acceleration, and high speed performance


Where we are at currently:
-I think we may be more at 21-22" belly
-Motor is down 1", chassis low, and seats into the frame (more on this)
-We are building hangers, chackles, etc from 3/16 plate. We could go thinner (10g) butt he life expectancy of those parts at that thickness was too short to be reasonable. Also, we've added lots of bracing to the chassis; X brace, double A pillar, and more coming. We could leave these out, but again I want this rig to last.
-The big killer on departure is the frame, beyond that is the shackle. Right now we are looking at shackle ending 3" before the back of the frame, and only 3" below it at flat spring circumstance. I would like better so different springs, shackle mt and shackle mt may be used later.
-Axle travel, if all works out, we are thinking 10" front and rear is easily attainable. Once we get axles mounted, flexed, and cycled, we'll see. Im thinking the shocks will need some angle to use all the travel.
-As for the performance, light weight is critical. We're looking at ~120lb wheel/tire combo, as well as loosing weight from rotating parts i.e. drilled rotors. We'll be running a decent 22RE wired with the help of ORS harness. And normal motor upgrades. We are cutting off building a high end motor, as I dont want to blow a high end long block from runnning upside down with no oil. Shane here used to work on airplanes, so we have been talking dry sump. We do have one plan that should be good for 50-75 hp.


For the low CG, we had lots of options and feedback. Almost everyone said raise the chassis. This is an easier solution, however it raises MUCH more than the 250# chassis. All support bracing gets raised (figure another 100#) I go up, Im a stick figure but figure on a co-pilot as well. Also going up, radiator (more room to the top of the hood), steering wheel, seats, dash, roof panel, etc. This we figured can add us to several hundred pounds, all 2" higher. The chassis to seat is a given distance based on the helmet clearance to cage work. Essentially no matter where the chassis is, Im in the same place relative to it. So visibility does not get better, it actually gets worse the higher the chassis is mounted. Overall, I think we're heading to ~68" total height.

more pics!!!

Nice... I have the same general ideas for my build. Light and low.:smokin:

You going flat belly at the bottom of the frame, or a dropped subframe? Looking at Garry's, there isn't much room for the t-case mount, exhaust and dropped seat.

Hurry up and figure it out so you can tell me what to do!:D


And tell that shit talkin employee of yours I said he sucks at welding:flipoff2:

I only drink in camp, and cant stand beer, Im more a marg kinda guy! :D

x2 You're not the only one! :D

-High travel, planning 10" MINIMUM vertical, maxing shocks on articulation
Can you elaborate? I'm not sure what you mean. 10" doesn't sound like much unless its measured at the bumpstop... :confused:
And by "good high speed performance" do you mean like desert style wheeling (between trails @ the Hammers :evil: )? How much up-travel are you going to have at the bumpstop? That is a tough one on a low rig.

x2 You're not the only one! :D


Can you elaborate? I'm not sure what you mean. 10" doesn't sound like much unless its measured at the bumpstop... :confused:
And by "good high speed performance" do you mean like desert style wheeling (between trails @ the Hammers :evil: )? How much up-travel are you going to have at the bumpstop? That is a tough one on a low rig.

At the stops, yes.

As for speed, I know Ill be chasing some loonies, that have been know to exceed 80 at JV. Shooting for 4" uptravel.

Brandon, as for all that, look for my post on tcase mount, youll see the seat. See the area between the case and the seat, that where the exhaust will be heading. From header, under seat, next to seat and tcase, and out somwhere from there.

I dropped the belly pan an 1 1/2" below the frame in my rig it sits at 23", with the cage 2" above the frame my cage is sitting at 74" on 38.5" SX's at 6psi.

So I think your numbers are fully attainable.

I dropped the belly pan an 1 1/2" below the frame in my rig it sits at 23", with the cage 2" above the frame my cage is sitting at 74" on 38.5" SX's at 6psi.

So I think your numbers are fully attainable.

Im looking at ~68 to the top. Lower chassis, smaller tires, sounds right on. Thanks for the numbers

Enough posting... more welding... or duct taping... or however you're sticking that thing together.

Jambo is two weeks

Im looking at ~68 to the top. Lower chassis, smaller tires, sounds right on. Thanks for the numbers

Glad they were of some use. :beer:


Are you holesawing the frame rails and slipping the 4130 into it? Are you going to mig weld the tubes to the frame? Any worries about the welds cracking?

Just asking because I use 4130 when making tools for blacksmithing and sometimes have issues with mild steel handles that were mig welded to the 4130 developing cracks in the welds after repeated usage. if I preheat the 4130 before welding its usually not an issue.

Glad they were of some use. :beer:


Are you holesawing the frame rails and slipping the 4130 into it? Are you going to mig weld the tubes to the frame? Any worries about the welds cracking?

Just asking because I use 4130 when making tools for blacksmithing and sometimes have issues with mild steel handles that were mig welded to the 4130 developing cracks in the welds after repeated usage. if I preheat the 4130 before welding its usually not an issue.

For the rear shackle mounting crossmember we holesawed, and slipped it in, mig welded. All the 1", and 1.25 tubes in this are 4130. The .75, and a couple stray pieces on 1.5, .120 are DOM. Suffice to say almost all the tubing added is moly. As for cracking, zero concern. Ive seen, and done enough damage to moly chassis' mig welded together, including crushed tubes, and flattened weld joints. Ive yet to see any cracking. Based on what you mentioned, Im guessing by the time the chassis sees enough stress in areas to get crackes, the tubes have been cut off and replaced anyway.

Bit more done.

As shown, X brace for the cassis, with shoulders bars in place. Along with recently added support for the tcase crossmember tube. 1.25, and 1" moly

Rear most crossmember in. 3/16 plate, with 3" holes, braced with 2" 14g, more speedy holes, and bottom with 3/4 tubing. There are now braces running from the center areas to the 1.75 tube. The 1.25 tube is to support the vertical load coming from the shackles, as the 1.75 tube has ~8" removed from the center to a fuel cell sump.

And of course, the cell, all tucked in. Id prefer it lower, but the sump limited us to this height.

And for Brandon. Exhaust routing. This is 2.25 ID tubing. Planning rigid mounted exhaust with a flex at the header. And yes, we'll be wrapping this!

Cool. Looks like what Garry had in mind also, with ceramic coating and heat wrap.

Not much time to have it ready to lead FOH:laughing: You heading out here for that?

Cool. Looks like what Garry had in mind also, with ceramic coating and heat wrap.

Not much time to have it ready to lead FOH:laughing: You heading out here for that?

The exhaust is run the way Garry described his thoughts to me. Works, but VERY tight. Also remember the seat is ~2" into the frame, and its flat belly.

FOH looks like a good break in run for it, dont you think?

You should have heard me call Scott about that. Went something like:
Me "So we're leading FOH eh?"
Scott "Apparently."
Me "When did they do the sign up, didnt see it"
"I dont know, I didnt sign up for it"
"Really?! We just stuck leading some trail neither of have run, or know where it is?"
"Yup!"
"Guess I better this Ftoy done then!"

Benders... :p

Any chance of a better pic of the new bracing for the t case mount?

building it light and low. i hear this everytime someone builds an ftoy. here's a suggestion for ya brian. have you ever sat in a ftoy with a flat bottom and then sat in a ftoy with the tcase 1.5" lower or 2", like a normal budbuillt? there is a BIG difference. you have way more leg room, more room for seats, more room for exhaust...just more room. its way more confortable, you even have room for fat man seats which anyone who has built a ftoy knows how hard it is to get fat man seats in there. also, your COG would be lower and i figure you would be all over that.

since your goal was 20", your frame will prolly end up being 22" this will put your tcase at 20". back to where you wanted it.

also, you can totatly get your fuel cell lower than that. i had mine right over the rear axle 2 inches below the frame rail.

also, i am the one who signed you up for FOH:flipoff2: so get it done!!!:laughing:

My fuel cell is real low too http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4964018&postcount=29

flush with the top of the frame. hasn't ever hit. But I don't do "BIG" jumps.

As for cell, figure the top of the rear diff will get even with the bottom of the frame. Also, we plan to add 2 more buckets later, between the frame rails (cosy fit)

As for the more room, yes and a more easy build. Im not after an easy build. I just have a thing for shooting for the "ideal " way (in my mind at least) Building withe the chassis higher would have made things a lot easier. Shane's been TIGing the floor structure around the clutch slave, and header this evening, for example. We'll see how it turns out/works, hopefully you'll see it in a week too!

Mocked up for ride height, with no spring settling, seeing ~22" behind the front shackles and ~20.5 at the rear spring hanger. Both dimensions too the bottom of the straight section of frame rail.

Getting wheels together. Locks arent ready yet, so we'll go no locks for the immediate future. Wheels were a little tight on the hub:laughing: :eek: , so some more lathe work. 37" sticky TRXUS tires, mounted came in ~96 lbs.

Any chance of a better pic of the new bracing for the t case mount?

How's this?

Good god man!!!

Are ya dumping those seats for something lighter???? Alum race-shell/pad combo for example???? Figure those weigh in at 30-40# each (dry) :laughing:

Good god man!!!

Are ya dumping those seats for something lighter???? Alum race-shell/pad combo for example???? Figure those weigh in at 30-40# each (dry) :laughing:

Ill weigh 'em for ya. Im guessing in the 20-25 lb neighborhood. But so far my back and butt have liked these the best.

Must be a genetic thing, cuz Scott has the only other comp rig with that kind of seat that I've ever seen:confused: I've always liked suspension seats with high bolstering...although you may have missed the full effect of that in Dave's fat man seats.

How's this?

Perfect! Thanks for doin the figuring for me :D . By the way nice build.

What's wrong with civic seats?

They are Prelude seats actually.

And for reasoning, testing of my skinny butt into several seats over the last year, (including several hard drops in Dave's) I found these to be the best fit, especially for lumbar. Brandon, youll notice at comps a stack of red rags in Dave's driver seat. Those I put in behind my lower back for lumba support in his rig. Riding nose wheelies out, and landing on the back end hurts. Barrel rolling the buggy down a hill doesnt, that does. Scotts, I have rolled in, yet. But bashing around enough in it has shown me these seem the most comfortable yet. I need to spend a bit of seat time in Becca's 3G, then we'll see.

And for weight, ~23 lbs.

Shackles, installed, we're actually starting to paint! And Im 2 dimples closer to the 3 you wanted Chris. There's 5 more in the battery tray! :laughing:

LOL I haven't pulled my seats out in a while, I think my #'s were a bit high....

More bling :smokin:

Naturally, best output existing for yota's, Longfield output. Got their hub gears too.

And I think I got enough slip at 24" :eek: I think we'll make 2 shafts from this.

And PRP 5 Point harness. After running JRT's buggy, running without padded shoulders is next to unbearable. These pads are stitched in place, and show minimal if any wear after 1 1/2 comp years, plus all the play time Dave can get in the rig.

We were shooting for the Jambo with this, but its not going to make it. So a quick discussion, and decided to take Shane's 86 SAS turbo truck. It had a couple issues to address.

1. stock birfs, no way. We'll be running 37" interco stickies, stock is not going to cut it.

Next up, a bit of love for the steering.

Off with the old, and in with the new.

Yes, the new one is 1.25 .250 wall 4130 moly. And one of you lucky buggers is going home from the Jambo with a tierod, and draglink set!

With the new shafts, we are trying some of Marlin's new seals.These should help with the knuckle leaking. When we build new housings, we put another seal inboard, next to the diff, and have eliminated leaky knuckles with it.

Back to the Ftoy, Offroad Solutions came through big time with the wiring. This is a harness to run the ENTIRE buggy. Remember the street legal idea? This harness has gauge hookups, high/low headlights, high/low fan, running lights, turn signals, fuel pump, 2 seats of rock lights, wiring for 100 amp alt., along with everything to run the EFI harness, 12V power plugs, and the diagnostic plugs. It looks a bit big in this pic, but is tucking into the rig nicely. They are planning to offer these harness in many different forms, So you get what you want, and not what you dont. Thanks guys!

Subscribed. :D

:smokin:

Ditto :smokin:

Brian, do you know what that harness would run for us normal guys?

It looks like it would take the majority, if not all, of the guess work out of wiring an Ftoy.

Ary

Brian, do you know what that harness would run for us normal guys?

It looks like it would take the majority, if not all, of the guess work out of wiring an Ftoy.

Ary
check the vendors section ... ORS talked about it

Brian, do you know what that harness would run for us normal guys?

It looks like it would take the majority, if not all, of the guess work out of wiring an Ftoy.

Ary

I got my harness from ORS! It made sticking a 22re with no chassis harness in an f-toy really simple. I don't remember for sure know but I think I had to terminate 4 wires. The rest was plug and play. First try and it started right up and ran perfect. The harness wasn't cheap, but it took all the guess work and aggravation out of it. The one I got cost me $450, some of the best money I spent on my rig. It's at the bottom of the page. http://www.offroadsolutions.com/products/engine_upgrades.htm

With the new shafts, we are trying some of Marlin's new seals.These should help with the knuckle leaking. When we build new housings, we put another seal inboard, next to the diff, and have eliminated leaky knuckles with it.

How much less oil do you end up putting into the diff with this set up? I would guess about a full quart or so, since the fluid only stays in the center section. I like this idea!:cool2:

Brian, do you know what that harness would run for us normal guys?

It looks like it would take the majority, if not all, of the guess work out of wiring an Ftoy.

Ary

I got my harness from ORS! It made sticking a 22re with no chassis harness in an f-toy really simple. I don't remember for sure know but I think I had to terminate 4 wires. The rest was plug and play. First try and it started right up and ran perfect. The harness wasn't cheap, but it took all the guess work and aggravation out of it. The one I got cost me $450, some of the best money I spent on my rig. It's at the bottom of the page. http://www.offroadsolutions.com/products/engine_upgrades.htm

We have been selling a 22R-E harness for years that this gentleman purchased. This harness covers the "body/dash" harness portion of the EFI circuit (40-50%). This harness does require you to connect to a battery, ground, ignition and start source. These are great for F-Toys and old trucks.

We tried something new w/ Brian's FToy, for now we'll call it the "monster" harness. We incorporated our EFI conversion harness into an entire vehicle harness. Not only does this harness run the EFI system but it also provides an entire electrical system including (and not limited to) ignition, start, accessory switches, headlamps, tail lights, radio, dome lights, rock lights, horn, turns, backup lamps, you name it... This also makes the install even simpler: mount the harness, bolt down the ground terminals, connect to the battery +. The only wiring the customer needs to do outside this harness is battery cables for the starter and winch.

We are planning to sell this as a "basic" harness and offer circuit upgrades as the customer wishes. Whatever the customer needs electrically, we can probably provide. We also plan to offer this harness for the 3RZ (2.7L) and the 5VZ (3.4L) engines.

We will be posting more info about our "monster" harness on our site in the next few days......

How much less oil do you end up putting into the diff with this set up? I would guess about a full quart or so, since the fluid only stays in the center section. I like this idea!:cool2:

Havent seen much less. Figure youre not filling the axle tubes, so only difference would be our housing shape, not the seal. The seals do hole the oil in the diff area on sidehills, so sidehilling all day, the diff isnt starving for oil.

We have been selling a 22R-E harness for years that this gentleman purchased. This harness covers the "body/dash" harness portion of the EFI circuit (40-50%). This harness does require you to connect to a battery, ground, ignition and start source. These are great for F-Toys and old trucks.

We tried something new w/ Brian's FToy, for now we'll call it the "monster" harness. We incorporated our EFI conversion harness into an entire vehicle harness. Not only does this harness run the EFI system but it also provides an entire electrical system including (and not limited to) ignition, start, accessory switches, headlamps, tail lights, radio, dome lights, rock lights, horn, turns, backup lamps, you name it... This also makes the install even simpler: mount the harness, bolt down the ground terminals, connect to the battery +. The only wiring the customer needs to do outside this harness is battery cables for the starter and winch.

We are planning to sell this as a "basic" harness and offer circuit upgrades as the customer wishes. Whatever the customer needs electrically, we can probably provide. We also plan to offer this harness for the 3RZ (2.7L) and the 5VZ (3.4L) engines.

We will be posting more info about our "monster" harness on our site in the next few days......

Arya, All the guess work, this thing is insane! From talking to folks about what we got, I think ORS would do well to offer a simple plug-n-play, enigine only harness and offer upgrades from there. All the way up to our, "super pimp" harness. Its sweet, Mike added lots of wire to the AFM so I can mount that wherever (we're still looking for the best place) A couple looped conectors and the fuel pump wiring was done, just awesome to deal with. WAAAY beter than trying to coble in the factory mess (see pg 1)

So as you all know, we didnt get the ftoy done for the Benders Jambo/Cleanup. So we pimped out Shane's truck in a couple hours to survive the hammers (see above posts) Well he broke in the new tires for us, along with the new bling wheels.

Though he decided it would be fun to break a few more things once we got there. Both of these diffs have been run hard for several years. One blew friday, and one saturday!

We'd thought enough to bring along one of the diffs for the ftoy as a spare (detroit 5.29) That one jumped in the front on friday. Then saturday came, and Marlin came to the rescue with a tap to fix the messed up drain plug threads. And a spare 5.29 spooled diff as a loaner! BTW, who thinks to bring 18m tap on the trail?!

BTW, who thinks to bring 18m tap on the trail?!

um...it's marlin. need I say more?

And a spare 5.29 spooled diff as a loaner! BTW, who thinks to bring 18m tap on the trail?!


who thinks to not weld up their drain plug:flipoff2:

who thinks to not weld up their drain plug:flipoff2:

He hasnt bothered working on the stock tinfoil housings. He's building new Diamonds for it.

What the?! :spam:

So we cut down the tranny shifter 3 or 4 inches. Then needed shorter tcase levers. Naturally we're using our Twin-Stick. On the left is standard production unit, same length as a stock tcase shifter, on the right, is our Ftoy version, at 3" shorter!

And in the buggy, now everything is at a comfortable height.

Exhaust is all rigid mounted to the chassis. Im not sure if we'll be happy with that or not, so time will tell. For movement in the drivetrain a flex coupling was used. We welded it direct to the header, and then a band clamp to the rest of the exhaust. The pic makes it look bad, its not running with a bad bend in the coupling.

And in the buggy, now everything is at a comfortable height.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=303132&stc=1&d=1178669363

Why two sticks on the reduction box?

If you look carefully youll see the side of a detent plug in aluminum tubing sticking out of the adapter. We machined our adapter to take 2 shift rails, as well as the detent. The shifter was (in our red truck) setup to trip off the 4wd indicator plug. This grounded the circuit for the ARB solenoid. This time around, we're going to use the extra shifter for another purpose, more on that when the time comes.

And whats up with the kink in the forward case (red ones) switching the location of the shifters?

Just wanted to switch which lever worked each shift rail.

Nice - I see you by shifting the "dummy" lever you can activate a electrical switch to say disconnect the rear driveline via an air operated cylinder or other stuff like that, right.....

Close... right now we're thinking no air cylinder, do a mechanical linkage for the disco, and a light indicating engaged or not. :)

The new front Diamond housing is getting close to finished. Here's one of our newer options in place. Mocked up with a busted 5.29.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=303339&stc=1&d=1178766416
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=303340&stc=1&d=1178766416

The thread:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=579410

A thought for folks building/planning an ftoy build. Do a 10 degree adapter from inchworm or marlin. Follow the logic:

Most everyone does a flat belly, so the BOTTOM of the tcase remains a constant relative to the frame. Because of moving the drivetrain rearward, the rear drive shaft can become an issue. (I think ours is OK with a CV in it, but it will be close, and may need a center limit.) Now with a clocked adapter, the tcase doesnt go up, it goes DOWN. This lowers the center of gravity a bit, as well as dropping the rear output flange by ~1" relative to the frame. These are both good things.

Only down sides, are possbly a little more work to fit the passenger seat. And needing to bend (or order) the tcase shifters slightly to go more vertical, and less pointed towards the driver.

We'll run what we've got now, but later I imagine we'll be swapping that out.

How difficult was it to machine the crawler adapter like you did? Could it be done reasonably well with regular garage tools? (drill press, etc)

How difficult was it to machine the crawler adapter like you did? Could it be done reasonably well with regular garage tools? (drill press, etc)

Lots of fun, and no. Here's a closeup of the detent. Its in an aluminum tube, youll notice the flange on the adapter was countersunk for the detent plug, and the tube. You also have to bore for the ball/spring. As well as bore /locate the right side shift rail guide through the adapter, and find a way to keep the right side rail from rotating.

Well Sh!#. I guess I won't steal that idea then. :laughing: Too much thinking makes my head hurt!

Any updates?

The new front Diamond housing is getting close to finished. Here's one of our newer options in place. Mocked up with a busted 5.29.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=303339&stc=1&d=1178766416
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=303340&stc=1&d=1178766416

The thread:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=579410


Damn, I wish I would have ordered mine with that option. How big is the hole exactly? What does the plug look like. Will you sell them seperatly?

Damn, I wish I would have ordered mine with that option. How big is the hole exactly? What does the plug look like. Will you sell them seperatly?
psst ... http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6788659&postcount=28

psst ... http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6788659&postcount=28

This link takes me to a single post. Where's the thread?

This link takes me to a single post. Where's the thread?

youd think someone with the name "the innovator" would be able to navigate the interweb

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6788659

Packaged the winch, radiator, and fan all in. Still need to mount the AFM, we keep changing our minds on where that will go. Its tight, but everything fits!

Playing with the dash layout. Gotta love cardboard and pens for finding flaws!

This looked great on paper. Unfortunately one gauge is blocked from view, the plate would be a bit closer to my leg than Id like, and visibility is blocked though the passenger foot well!

Back to drawing board!

When I was downloading off the camera, came across this pic. Snapped this before sending it off to Longfield, then Interco for sponsoring Team Slowspeed (Dave Cole, and myself) for the 06 season. I thought some of you would like to see this.

More mockups. Just getting tighter and smaller. The latest (non-filled in) is what we are looking at. Visibility will be minor, if any loss. Everything gets real cramped. The gauges will be touching each other on the back, and obviously the switches are all real tight. We're going to take another look at this in a day or 2 before we do anything. Im just not wanting all the switches that tight for comp.

what about like other FToys, they have the line lock and ARB switches on the tranny shifter, seems very comfortable and easy to reach in a hurry.

what about like other FToys, they have the line lock and ARB switches on the tranny shifter, seems very comfortable and easy to reach in a hurry.

We thought about that, and mounting to the tranny shifter/tcase shifter base area as well. Easy to reach, but not easy to see. Same thought for the linelock, and ARB switches on the shifter. I dont want to try and remember they are on or off. I want a visual (light on the switch) to indicate on/off. Also, having all the switches in one place should limit confusion. "where's that switch?"

Where we ended up.
mmm, liquid filled :smokin:
The naked spot is for a tach.
Fuses are mounted to the top, behind the gauges, and covered by a top panel. Relays, computer are mounted underneath, behind where the switches will live.

Gauges are mechanical. Electrical would have worked as well, and ORS even put the leads in our harness! I decided to go mechanical just because. Only thing I dont like about mechanical is the cute plastic tube for the oil pressure. Though Ive never had a problem with it.

i like to replace the plastic tube with soft copper tube that you can pick up at most autoparts stores.

If you look carefully youll see the side of a detent plug in aluminum tubing sticking out of the adapter. We machined our adapter to take 2 shift rails, as well as the detent. The shifter was (in our red truck) setup to trip off the 4wd indicator plug. This grounded the circuit for the ARB solenoid. This time around, we're going to use the extra shifter for another purpose, more on that when the time comes.

You can also do this if you have a forward shift transmission. I don't know what work it'll take to make it useable but the whole and switch are already there. Just need to make the shift rail work.

Where we ended up.
mmm, liquid filled :smokin:
The naked spot is for a tach.
Fuses are mounted to the top, behind the gauges, and covered by a top panel. Relays, computer are mounted underneath, behind where the switches will live.

306940

Cool. Hmmm. Kinda reminds me of:

306941

:grinpimp:

You can also do this if you have a forward shift transmission. I don't know what work it'll take to make it useable but the whole and switch are already there. Just need to make the shift rail work.

All the parts: shift rail hole, detent, etc are all in the adapter/crawl box. You'd be looking at the exact same thing.

306940

Cool. Hmmm. Kinda reminds me of:

306941

:grinpimp:


:laughing:

You should have seen one other version, looked like ET meets Punisher! :barf:

Top view
We wanted a little different hood than most. Flaring the hood tubes up and outwards worked perfectly. We can pull the motor with intake and exhaust on. Yet it still is providing good protection and looks clean. There is a fairly large flat area, that we are trying to think of a way to "dress up".

the guage panel is kick ass. Nice work!

Is that twin stick on both transfer case's?

Top view
We wanted a little different hood than most. Flaring the hood tubes up and outwards worked perfectly. We can pull the motor with intake and exhaust on. Yet it still is providing good protection and looks clean. There is a fairly large flat area, that we are trying to think of a way to "dress up".

Looks SICK!!!:smokin:

edit:Put the Diamond axle logo on it.

Roll the diamond axle logo into it with a bead roller. :smokin: :smokin:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=306967&stc=1&d=1180488869

What does it look like in profile?

How about a 4th Gen 4Runner hood scoop in the middle of the lower portion?

Were you trying to make a "diamond"-shaped gauge pod, or did it just work out best that way for space?

307139 in a fleshy color?

Roll the diamond axle logo into it with a bead roller. :smokin: :smokin:

Heck yeah!:smokin:

2Manyprojects, that would look great embossed with an English wheel!!

307139 in a fleshy color?

I think you should change your name to 2muchfreetime. :D

That is pretty good. Funny part is the wife showed it to me laughing about it! :laughing:

Heck yeah!:smokin:

2Manyprojects, that would look great embossed with an English wheel!!

Now that would look pretty sweet!

As for a hood scoop, no go. It would cut down on visibility. A scoop would be cool looking.

Or something similar to these, but in Front Range style of course:

http://www.datinmanjay.com/sitebuilder/images/skullsmall-493x369.jpg

Or:

http://www.datinmanjay.com/sitebuilder/images/100_0129-474x352.jpg

Or:

http://www.datinmanjay.com/images/cobalt27doorpanel.jpg

:grinpimp:

307139 in a fleshy color?

and then paint a bra on the roof to cover the "boobs" inside:laughing:
formula female?

formula female?


It would sure match his driving style ;)

It would sure match his driving style ;)

WOW :eek:

I knew there was a reason for wanting crosshairs on the hood. You're a big target my friend. :p

WOW :eek:

I knew there was a reason for wanting crosshairs on the hood. You're a big target my friend. :p

As long as I'm in your crosshairs... I'm safe. It's standing 3 feet off line that gets a little scary:flipoff2:

Side view of the hood

I like simple things... AFM mount

Yes this is a larger AFM, I put ~20k on the truck setup with this, little more power, and no lean out problem.

Looking good Brian. Are you going to make it to Donner (in the F-Toy)?

Looking good Brian. Are you going to make it to Donner (in the F-Toy)?

Current plan, Ftoy to be there. Shane will drive it, Im driving Pro Mod with Dave, and we are figuring out a spotter for Shane.

Shot of winch support tube and crank pulley. We were playing with how far back to get the winch. Then remembered one simple thing. There has to be enough room to get a belt through there to get on the crank pulley! So the tube landed ~3/4" from the crank. :p

A-pillar strengthening done. We added 1 x.083 moly in here. After dropping JRT's buggy several times 8-10 feet onto the a-pillar to roof point, I wanted to make sure this roof would stay right where I want it!

Front axle assembly:
First up, new inner axle shafts seals. These are standard on all our toy front Diamond axle builds. Gear oil in the knuckles gone forever!

Looks good Brian!

Is there any way to add an inner seal to "1st gen" diamonds without them?

Next up is knuckles going on. Ideally you want to center and preload the knuckles with toyta's SST as Steveh describes in the FAQ. If you dont have this tool. You will get VERY close with stock knuckles with one thick factory shim on the bottom. Then 2 thick aftermarket shims on the top. This will get you close if not dead on if your balls are good.

And of course in go the best, Longfields!

Here's where the the birf is relative to the knuckle, when the inner shaft hits than inner seal puck. Simply get the tip of the shaft up, its guided through the seal, and into the spline in the 3rd.

Once the preload on the knuckle bearings is set, the wipers go on. We like to use button head stainless bolts here.

Out to the locking hubs, of course, new o-rings in the hubs.

The knuckle and hub studs are replaced with our ARP fasteners to ensure they stay together. Also, ftoy rules require stock PU/4runner knuckles.
http://frontrangeoffroadfab.com/nfoscomm/catalog/images/knuckle-studs001_main.jpg?osCsid=74c034aea6e7daf983f3693c1 29c3bec

http://frontrangeoffroadfab.com/nfoscomm/catalog/images/axle-rope-057_main.jpg?osCsid=74c034aea6e7daf983f3693c129c3b ec

Looks good Brian!

Is there any way to add an inner seal to "1st gen" diamonds without them?

We can/you can. Give a call to the shop, and Ill explain what the whole deal is. :)

Brian, looks to be coming along nicely! Hopefully I will be able to start mine soon.

BTW, did you get my PM?

Got your PM. Updates shortly.

Current plan, Ftoy to be there. Shane will drive it, Im driving Pro Mod with Dave, and we are figuring out a spotter for Shane.

i suck at spotting and driving RV's(ask dave), but if you guys get in a pinch ill throw rocks if needed

Little test flex on the rig. Front springs are a little stiff, but rear are working nicely. Right now we've got an IFS rear end in until we figure the right width. Looks to me that we're pretty darn close!

Front driveline time!

We're running a 2 piece driveshaft to keep the shaft up inside the belly as much as possible. When the tube is cut off a 84/85 CV, you find a machined bore inside.

We're using 2.25, .250 wall tubing, so we can drive on the shafts all day long!

Simply turn a press fit diameter into the tubing, and press it into the CV.

Heres the slip we got, well 13" of it anyway. Cut off the original toy slip, and again a machined bore. We turned the spline to press into it.

Phased and checked to make sure its all straight, and welded up!

With being a 2 piece, we needed a center support, pillow block. The drivetrain will still move a bit front to rear, so we wanted a slip in this bearing for the driveshaft to move. You can see the step in the shaft, and the step on the Tcase flange. It allows ~.250" front to back.

While fitting everything we found the planned location for the pillow block and Cv was too far forward. To the tone of running into the slave cylinder and bellhousing! So out cam a little floor structure, and this is where it lives now.

Hmm, I like that setup with the 2.25" tube for the driveshaft. I might have to fire up the south bend next time, instead of welding 2-1/2" pipe to the outside of the yoke.

Hmm, I like that setup with the 2.25" tube for the driveshaft. I might have to fire up the south bend next time, instead of welding 2-1/2" pipe to the outside of the yoke.

The 2.25 works well for hybrid shafts, or just building in general. Most yokes can be purchased with a press into 1.75 diameter. So its a handy size. I also like the smaller diameter for packaging, and the thick wall makes up for the smaller diameter in dent strength.

BTT!!!!!!! :grinpimp:

this thing going to be at donner?

this thing going to be at donner?

Yes and you are getting redrafted back into service:flipoff2:

Where did you find the male/ female splined parts? Tractor stuff or online?

Yes and you are getting redrafted back into service:flipoff2:

Donner to break it in, gotta go finish!

Hit a local trail on Sunday, suspension is working well. We just shy of 22 belly height, and 68-69 at roof height with tires at 8 psi. Only issue is the tires all hit the perimeter bar of the chassis on articulation. From right height the front has 4.5-5" compression.

Pics coming soon!

Pics coming soon!


Not soon enough for me!!! :laughing: :laughing:

Donner to break it in, gotta go finish!


I can't wait to see it running this weekend! I'll be up there judging:grinpimp:

a 2nd place finish at donner for brian ellinger and dave cole. heres a few shots from sunday, i forgot to grab the camera on saturday.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/mobil1syn/werock-donner-07/IMG_1168.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/mobil1syn/werock-donner-07/IMG_1076.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/mobil1syn/werock-donner-07/IMG_1072.jpg

looking good,
got any more pictures of the steering setup?

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/mobil1syn/werock-donner-07/IMG_1168.jpg


wow, looks like it sits low! I like it.
Congradulations

This one is by far my favorite out of all the ones I saw at donner.:flipoff2:

Interesting steering. I just reread the whole post and only saw mention of the tie rod material. Stock arms? I'd like to see/ hear more about that.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/mobil1syn/werock-donner-07/IMG_1168.jpg

Interesting steering. I just reread the whole post and only saw mention of the tie rod material. Stock arms? I'd like to see/ hear more about that.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/mobil1syn/werock-donner-07/IMG_1168.jpg

Stock arms, Hydro Assist behind the Chromo Tie Rod and below the springs. Little Shorty drag link attached mid way across the tie rod.

The car was flawless. Side hilled like no other Ftoy I've seen. And the steering is insane (for a Toy)

d

That's what I thought. Here's the newb question. What is the advantage? Obviously a little weight. No contact on droop? I was thinking maybe to allow for less lift, but, I believe it's the pitman arm/TRE that generally causes interference first.

I like the low stance. Interesting steering for sure, but I imagine it free's up room for clearance with the said low set up. 2nd place! Woohoo! Good job!

That's what I thought. Here's the newb question. What is the advantage? Obviously a little weight. No contact on droop? I was thinking maybe to allow for less lift, but, I believe it's the pitman arm/TRE that generally causes interference first.

Picture worth 1000 words.

Numbers come up:
~22" at the belly,
~68 at the roof, and
4.5-5" compression on the front axle.
~7" compression on the rear.

Interesting enough, on this buggy bumpstops are useless on articulation, the tires simply hit the horizontal chassis tubes. On straight compression is where they would come into play.

What springs did you end up using? They look about as flat as I want the rears Im using to be. :smokin:

Nice rig:smokin: Congrats on 2nd place

Congrats on the 2nd place finish Brian!!

Any more details/pics on the ubolt eliminator front spring mount?

Congrats on the 2nd place finish Brian!!

Any more details/pics on the ubolt eliminator front spring mount?

Thank you.

Perch, no ubolts was required for what we wanted to do. Axle is offset on the spring pin, rather than redrilling or custom springs.

What springs did you end up using? They look about as flat as I want the rears Im using to be. :smokin:

All 4 started as YJ springs.

A technical note. We were torn on material for the belly skid. Im still looking for something better, but so far, Im happy we went with 3/16 vs. 1/8. The pic doesnt show well, but there is ~1/4" deep dent in that nice scrape.

That thing came out nice Brian. :smokin:

A technical note. We were torn on material for the belly skid. Im still looking for something better, but so far, Im happy we went with 3/16 vs. 1/8. The pic doesnt show well, but there is ~1/4" deep dent in that nice scrape.

look into nylatron (sp?) From my sources harder and more slippery (self lubricating) than UHMW.

Nick

Where did you find the male/ female splined parts? Tractor stuff or online?

It is an Agricultural application. They came from stockton Driveline. I cant find their number right now, Ill post up when I come across it.

Very nice looking rig. I can see in the pictures that using the type of steering that you did gives you the ability to give the rig a lower stance. Do you have any concerns that you could hit the rocks tweaking the alignment?

Very nice looking rig. I can see in the pictures that using the type of steering that you did gives you the ability to give the rig a lower stance. Do you have any concerns that you could hit the rocks tweaking the alignment?

:evil: Yes and no. I have many more concerns of destroying the 2" assist ram on there than the tierod itself. We may build a skid/guard for the ram to prevent this. Right now were using the tierod as a guard for the ram!

The steering itself didnt allow such much for a lower rig, as it did an increase in compression travel. We ran nearly identical suspension in our old 85 truck, and with some high steer arms we used to make. The arms were flat, but we still had ~2" compression travel before the links hit the frame/oil pan. Dropping the tierod under the axle, and building the pitman to hug the frame, simply allowed the bumps to go up.

Now with the travel, high speed hitting watermelon rocks, and big holes is MUCH more fun and tolerable. Landing with those low pro stops really stinks. The front is going to have to get some air bumps in there!

Had I been thinking along crawling use only, I would have done the steering different. Just dealt with less compression and run high steer with the ram higher and better guarded. Loosing 2-3" of up travel wouldnt really affect articulation any amount.

I had a sneeking suspicion that is was more than lowering...

So this is a good multipurpose steering that is just not only for the rocks, but also for the high speed romps across the desert. Very innovative.

This is sick:grinpimp::smokin:
Shane

Congrats on the 2nd place finish.
The rig looked awesome! Very inovative, while staying within the rules.
Lets see a pic of that pitman arm:D

I like the short springs in rear, for departure angle,
but doesnt having the leaf springs so short on the shakle side make for very BAD high speed handling?

Brandon and I set up #20 simialar, and it bucked and kicked up the back end pretty hard in the whoops.










Sean

A technical note. We were torn on material for the belly skid. Im still looking for something better, but so far, Im happy we went with 3/16 vs. 1/8. The pic doesnt show well, but there is ~1/4" deep dent in that nice scrape.

Just cover that in 3/16" uhmw and call it good:D A little dent here and there isn't gonna hurt anything, right? You should have enough bracing to keep it from completely folding.

I've got my money on this rig for the 2008 Championship, nice job guyshttp://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

Brian, that thing is sick! Really! Sick!

How about we just skip you building a new chassis for me, and I'll load that ugly thing on my trailer and bring it home to Montana.

Keep me posted on the FToy order. I hope you don't mind if I crawl all over your FToy for ideas. There's a $40k Jeep I'm trying to outdo. :evil: See p.38 of this month's 4Wheel Drive & Sport Utility rag.

Cool build.

So this is a good multipurpose steering that is just not only for the rocks, but also for the high speed romps across the desert. Very innovative.

Yes and no. It works very well for the suspension travel. However with a short draglink it gets bumpsteer. With the 2" assist, I really dont get the wheel beating me up though. Like anything its a compromise of trying to get what you want. Beleive me, I was really eyeing orbitals while fitting this in there.

Congrats on the 2nd place finish.
The rig looked awesome! Very inovative, while staying within the rules.
Lets see a pic of that pitman arm:D

I like the short springs in rear, for departure angle,
but doesnt having the leaf springs so short on the shakle side make for very BAD high speed handling?

Brandon and I set up #20 simialar, and it bucked and kicked up the back end pretty hard in the whoops.










Sean

Its not bucking, though it is light back there. getting the back end to come around in turns is pretty easy, especially with the ARB locked. Comparably, not a whole lot easier than our rear spooled tacoma was. As for whoops, dont know, we really dont have any here. More holes, water bars, and watermelon rocks. The spring is only 45" end to end, the axle axle is a little offset to the rear ~1". With the springs as soft as they are, and the fairly soft shocks it seems to be doing ok. Its another trade off thing. We'll get the shock remounted back there, when we put in the rear Diamond, and see where we end up!

Just cover that in 3/16" uhmw and call it good:D A little dent here and there isn't gonna hurt anything, right? You should have enough bracing to keep it from completely folding.

I've got my money on this rig for the 2008 Championship, nice job guyshttp://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

:D

The floor is a welded in grid of 1.25 and 1.0 moly tubing. So far, doing fine. The dent is in between bracing. Im not concerned, so much as Id like to find something lighter and tougher, like AR plate.

UPDATE:

Things to be changed/finished:
We mocked the rear with an IFS rear end to determine the width we wanted/needed, now we know what we're building the rear Diamond too. When that gets in, we'll be redoing all the rear shocks mounts, ubolts, etc. Possibly eliminating the rear u-bolts, similar to the front.

And the big reason why a lot is still not painted... dialing in... the front shock mounts need moved. Right now if we land hard, but not completely square, the front shocks can bottom before the tire hits the chassis, or the bumpstop hits. So the front mounts are going up ~1".

And to make the rig more fun, well be tweaking this motor for whats left before building a new one, trying out some larger TB's, cam, and maybe bigger injectors. This one is one we had. Its not a healthy motor (low compression) So its what we wanted to start with. Tweak this on, blow it up, then a new motor, and fine tune from there. Oil pressure, lean out concerns, etc.

Due to the compression we are running, the A/C mount was REALLY in the way. After hacking the idler pulley, and then some, we needed a way to tension the A/C. Since we've kept too many parts off old trucks, out came a power steering idler pulley. Off the engine hook went, and on thi went. Lines up perfect! The tensioner will come in handy when we get the York mounted as well.

An FToy with A/C? :shaking:



:laughing:


Did you leave the factory A/C compressor there for now until you fry it, then go York for OBA? Did you get the chassis drilled for use as an air tank?

RE engine stripped of emissions and anything not affecting run ability. Notice the brakes are still power assist and the fuel pressure vacuum is still hooked up. We still need to rip out the wiring in the engine harness itself no longer being used.

Very entertaining build up thread Brian... went through all 10 pages tonight for first time.

Glad to see you compete up in Donner. Are you planning on doing double duty at the Nationals? I think that you can if you back pay???

Get those changes done and dial her in - time to compete Baby!

Craig

An FToy with A/C? :shaking:



:laughing:


Did you leave the factory A/C compressor there for now until you fry it, then go York for OBA? Did you get the chassis drilled for use as an air tank?

Yeah A/C, Air Compressor!

I am considering a heater in a few months...

The factory compressor was easier to get in the day before leaving for donner. The york will go in soonish. I want the switch panel done right first, and other cleanup/paint etc done first.

The chassis is not drilled for a tank, that scares me. Plus if it does get a crack, problem with the air system. Right now, since all its running is the ARB, there is no tank. I may carry a tank to be able to run airtools, but right now Im not planning on mounting one.

Very entertaining build up thread Brian... went through all 10 pages tonight for first time.

Glad to see you compete up in Donner. Are you planning on doing double duty at the Nationals? I think that you can if you back pay???

Get those changes done and dial her in - time to compete Baby!

Craig

As of right now, Donner was my last running in pro mod. Ran the whole season thru 3rd national, and 1st worlds. I needed to take a step down from that, just too much time commitment, so dropped to 1/2 season this year (globe, donner, worlds in AU) Things change, and I have opted to let Dave run worlds, and now he just needs a spotter. :)

We can run nationals if we back pay event fees, yes. At this time I am not planning to run nationals though. We are planning on the full season next year.

I want the switch panel done right first, and other cleanup/paint etc done first.



You have to get that win button wired up right. You must have had some wires crossed in Donner:flipoff2:

With those breather hoses hooked to the intake, I think you will be repeating the on course hydrolock/spark plug pull/oil geiser/ smoke sceen you guys did on the pro mod course at donner.

With those breather hoses hooked to the intake, I think you will be repeating the on course hydrolock/spark plug pull/oil geiser/ smoke sceen you guys did on the pro mod course at donner.
thats a team slowspeed signature move.

That's definatley getting changed on Dave's motor. I hate that crap. Sean's F-toy has been on it's side or upside down 10 or 15 times without ever hydrolocking or even blowing white smoke. It drove around almost completely upside down for 2 1/2 minutes without ever smoking:smokin:

I havent tried eliminateing those, I didnt want to change too much, have run ability issues, and have too many things to chase. If I can cap of the vent line, I cant see how we could eliminate the PCV? That would be great.

So far only at Donner, and only dave's rig have we done the oil geyser. It seems the extraction crew was light this year, so the buggy was upsidedown for 20 minues minimum this and last year.

Smokes great, no mosquitos!

i have vented all of mine to a catch can. and have no issues. on joeys 3.4 we did the same thing. it sat on its lid for a good 20 mins or more and didn't smoke or lock up no issues starting it up at all.

As soon as you are floped 3/4 on the pass side, you are draining your motor oil into your intake. Its pretty clear looking at the pic. I dont believe your intake system requires a steady diet of 10/40w. I also call BS on the idea of enough oil getting past the rings to hydro lock a decent running engine.

Pluging the intake will probaby help your engine run better. Elinimating the hot oilly air being drawn in, and just getting freah cool air.
As far as venting the valvetrain/ crankcase, there is many ways to do it, like venting your gas tank.

The way I did was, I T-ed the two hoses together at the valve cover and ran the hose in a big circle (around radiator) all 4 side on engine and up to a Jazz catch can/breather.

I was gonna add a petcock at the lowest point to drain acumaleted oil, but it never got to be a problem.

As soon as you are floped 3/4 on the pass side, you are draining your motor oil into your intake. Its pretty clear looking at the pic. I dont believe your intake system requires a steady diet of 10/40w. I also call BS on the idea of enough oil getting past the rings to hydro lock a decent running engine.

Pluging the intake will probaby help your engine run better. Elinimating the hot oilly air being drawn in, and just getting freah cool air.
As far as venting the valvetrain/ crankcase, there is many ways to do it, like venting your gas tank.

The way I did was, I T-ed the two hoses together at the valve cover and ran the hose in a big circle (around radiator) all 4 side on engine and up to a Jazz catch can/breather.

I was gonna add a petcock at the lowest point to drain acumaleted oil, but it never got to be a problem.

I would tend to agree on the rings, this motor I think could have an issue, as Ive got decent carbon buildup on the oil fill cap, and we're figuring with unknown miles, and a light wrist pin knocking (for ~15k miles) its a pretty beat motor. :D So Ill cap of the intake and valve cover vent next time I run, and see if it affects anything.

Im also thinking with the baffle, gaurd, whatever inside the valve cover that it will take a bit to get oil into the intake. The buggy doesnt fall over until 70-80 degrees. Ill get pics next time out, if I can remember the camera. :shaking: Driving at that point for several minutes, I still get zero smoking, or anything odd.

More things to play with!

You definately don't want to cap the valve cover side. The crank case builds pressure, and it has to be released. Like Sean said, loop it around the block, then call up 800-230-3030 and order another of your 62-1360's to cap it off:D

I got lazy on mine and tried to put an inline rollover valve directly over the breathers. There was enough pressure to push the ball up and hold it closed while idling, so it vented elsewhere. Popped up the dipstick and blew the valve cover seals.

Running the vent lines to the intake is more of a smog thing than run ability. And the PCV valve supposedly helps stop or calm a backfire. But I think my motor backfires more with it than without...

So what about the thought of some inline fuel filters in these hoses? Would slow the oil (hopefully) while still allowing adequate breathing. I think I would rather deal with oil in the intake than a hose run around to a filter that will leak at some point.

And its a 62-1330, geez!

So what about the thought of some inline fuel filters in these hoses? Would slow the oil (hopefully) while still allowing adequate breathing. I think I would rather deal with oil in the intake than a hose run around to a filter that will leak at some point.

And its a 62-1330, geez!

Fuel filters arent gonna do anything. Tims rig was set up like that. Oil all over the place, and an on course fire when the oil got on exaust manifold. His rig wasnt set up for as much rolling, driving on its side and roof that hes does. It probably would of been fine for a normal competitor.

My rig never leaked a drop of engine oil. Oil wont run up hill.

You can do all kinds of things that will "kind of" work for awhile,
or you can set it up so you never leak oil out of the rig or into the intake.
The same goes for ps,trans,& fuel.

Fluid running allover the place isn't inherent with offroading and rolling, its from a vehicle that isint prepared , or has something broken.