No, not at all a done deal, but most definitely a SERIOUS idea that my promoter & I are discussing for 2004. And I honestly think it's doable. No, I'm not crazy either :D

Here's the format:

5 "Fast Track" Classes
**Pro Modified (blowers & paddles)
**Modified (cuts, injection, & tube frames)
**Pro Stock (10% stretch, cuts, NOS allowed)
**Super Stock (full body, stock suspension, 1 carb)
**Street Stock (gas, 15" vacuum, limits on engine swaps, mufflers)

4 "Pit" Classes
**Altered (tractor tires)
**Outlaw Stock (full body, stock wheelbase, any suspension)
**Hot Street (38.0" or smaller tires, mufflers, gas)
**Real Street (35.0" or smaller tires, VERY limited engine swaps, 19" vacuum for V8's & V10's)

For those unfamiliar with the terms, "Fast Track" is "drag" style racing, while "Pit" refers to 2-3 feet of mud.

All classes except for Street Stock & Real Street would be $200 entry fee paying the top TWENTY places (20th place being $200 or MORE in the top 7 classes). Street Stock & Real Street would be $75 entry paying the top 10.

$5,000 to win Pro Mod
$3,500 to win Mod
$3,000 to win Pro Stock
$2,500 to win Altered, Outlaw Stock, & Super Stock
$2,000 to win Hot Street
$750 to win Street Stock & Real Street

This would be a 4-day event.
Thursday would consist of qualifications for the "Pit" classes.
Friday is qualifications for the "Fast Track" classes except Pro Mod.
Saturday morning would be Pro Mod qualifications.
Saturday night, the top 20 from each "Pit" class run in the finals followed by a monster truck exhibition.
Sunday afternoon, the top 20 from each "Fast Track" class run in the finals, again followed by a monster truck exhibition.


Double entry in all classes would be allowed, however only one entry per machine may make the finals. In other words, if you have 3 drivers for your machine, or you just want to drive 3 times, you may enter the machine 3 times (or as many times as you want) in the class. But, if 2 of your times end up in the top 20, only one will count & the #21 machine will be moved up into the finals.

Vehicles may enter multiple classes (if legal), and a single vehicle WILL be allowed in more than one class final if they're fast enough. For example, it wouldn't surprise me for a Super Stock to sneak into the top 20 of Pro Stock.

More than likely, this race will take place somewhere in the Midwest. Seems that most of the potential for gathering racers is East of the Rockies, but we don't want to go so far East that it makes travel difficult for the KS/NE/TX folks. So, plan on MO, IL, IN, OH, KY, TN as possibilities.

A lot of you mud guys are blessed with enough local opportunities for racing that you've never really HAD to travel. But, should this event take place, it'd be the biggest thing EVER in mud racing. A $15,000 prize purse is a "big" event. I'm talking about multiplying that by ten. This would be your chance to see the very best, to run with the very best, even to prove that YOU are one of the very best. Assuming enough notice (at least a year), who'd be interested in taking part?

TEX

Would y'all consider 4 wheelers also? I have a bike that has taken 44 Bogger'd trucks down. It's basically a sub-500 lb. locked 4wd bulldozer with 28" tires with 2.5" tread:evil:

WHAT KIND OF BIKE YA GOT Z71INPROGRESS

Sorry, no ATV's, dune buggy's, or 2wd's*

*2wd allowed only in the tractor tire class & with minimum tire diameter stipulation.

There ARE groups that run ATV's in the mud, I'm just not one of 'em :)

TEX

My truck will be done for sure by then!! :D Maybe even have a new tow rig. Count me in for sure!!

you know me Tex I'll be there.

Your classes and "rules" sound like they are on the right track, But I cannot see having 100+ street trucks show up, pay 75$ to run the pit on thursday, then have only 20 run for the purse on say saturday. Another problem I see is keeping that many trucks on site. (again street trucks) most places I've been, after you've passed tech, you dont get to leave (and potentially change your setup) Not trying to pick apart your idea, Just been to too many shows that DRUG on too long;)

Originally posted by weps
Your classes and "rules" sound like they are on the right track, But I cannot see having 100+ street trucks show up, pay 75$ to run the pit on thursday, then have only 20 run for the purse on say saturday.

How come?


Another problem I see is keeping that many trucks on site. (again street trucks) most places I've been, after you've passed tech, you dont get to leave (and potentially change your setup)

We'd have to double-check the finalists before they run just to make sure nobody is gettin' cute. Parking is a definite issue. It'll have to be held somewhere BIG. We're lookin' :)


Not trying to pick apart your idea, Just been to too many shows that DRUG on too long;)

That's why we talked about doing the qualifications & then the finals on another day. Otherwise, we'd be looking at 2 VERY long days & the crowd would certainly get bored. Figured the crowd COULD come watch the qualifying IF they want. But, the real "race" is Saturday & Sunday - probably no more than 4 hours each day once we pare it down to 20 per class :)

Thanks for the input, keep it up!

TEX

This sounds like it would be a lot of fun. I could only imagine the machines that would show up. I would consider trailering from the great white north. Keep us posted.

When we hold events it is hard to get enough spectators out for 2 days of events. We arrange it for saturday afternoon and sunday morning and afternoon. We get alot of people who camp out and stay for the 2 days.

Depends on where the purse is coming from I guess. If it is thru the spectators , then events have to be tailored to their wants.

My 4wd club just spent the last 2 days trying to get stuck in the mud for fun. I think the goal was the opposite but we had more fun getting stuck , then getting thru it all.

Robert VanLane

PS but "Build it and they will come" works too.

Originally posted by Rvl

Depends on where the purse is coming from I guess. If it is thru the spectators , then events have to be tailored to their wants.



Yup, definitely counting on the spectators to cover much of the cost. And we'd definitely want to tailor this to their needs. We'll also be expeloring TV coverage for the finals. Someone like ESPN2 could make 8 or more 1/2 hour segments out of just the finals & there would only be GOOD trucks in the finals, so it wouldn't be such an editing nightmare.

We'd be looking for a facility with seating for at least 8,000 I imagine. Preferably in a mid-large city (at LEAST 50,000 residents). For one thing, that gives us more of a fan base. Plus, larger towns have amenities that come in handy for multi-day events (like lots of hotel rooms and probably some sort of a night-life).

My 4wd club just spent the last 2 days trying to get stuck in the mud for fun. I think the goal was the opposite but we had more fun getting stuck , then getting thru it all.

Yup, nobody wants to see EVERYONE get through :)



PS but "Build it and they will come" works too.

That's the hope. That's why I'm glad to see comments from folks like White Knight who'd be willing to come a LONG way. That is encouraging to me from a truck-count perspective.

Now, what to call the event....hmmm....... :)

TEX

With that kind of bait, you can be sure to expect any and everyone to show up. The problem is going to lie in mantaining control of the situation, enough room for staging, parking, and most of all, how long do you predict this event to last? A small event lasts 3-6 hours. I also assume you will use 3X elimination, best of three? Should we bring tents?

Hey TEX - off topic here, but our club held our first mud bog competition last night...

Lots of mistakes, and lts to learn - but early estimates are that we had 2000-2500 spectators :eek::eek::eek: (we only had stands for 600) and we finished the unlimited class at 3am with a nitrous truck and the only full pit run of the night :D:D:D

We had 9 classes set up - we did not had competitotrs for all of them though. largest class was 19 trucks (V8 & 38"+ tires)

And just think - there was NO PAYOUT for our event - trophies only ;)

We learned parking and grounds layout are VERY important :eek:

Email me @
DRM (drm1@charter.net) as I would like to get your input on some things... Overall the event went REALLY well for our first go... well enough that we would be silly not to start doing these every year ;)

Maybe with 4 pits the time would be faster to get everyone thru. We did one race with only one pit and we finished at about 1am.
Would look pretty impressive to see 4 trucks racing down the course.

Checkout stadiums , it is alot easier for crowd control. We always have people hopping fences .

On another point be careful.
2 weeks ago we had a death of a race official. It wasn`t during my race but the next one that a truck went off and hit a official.
So the whole area has been closed off by the police and owner. Now it is being decided who will pay : the driver or the organizer(our club) or the property owner.



Robert VanLane

Originally posted by twistedmetal
With that kind of bait, you can be sure to expect any and everyone to show up. The problem is going to lie in mantaining control of the situation, enough room for staging, parking, and most of all, how long do you predict this event to last? A small event lasts 3-6 hours. I also assume you will use 3X elimination, best of three? Should we bring tents?

Yeah, we definitely need LOADS of space. Time-wise, we would figure on ALL day Thursday & Friday. Finals on Sat & Sun would be 3-4 hours each. Eliminations are great, but too many trucks I'd guess for that kind of format. The "Fast Track" classes would run twice in the finals - best time counts. The "Pit" classes would likely have just one pass in the finals. And yeah, we'd probably want to do this somewhere with camping allowed.

TEX

PS, you guys still do any racing at Yankton? My neighbor bought a "Modified" car from a guy up that way a couple years back. Had been in storage since '93 with an injected 434". Was black with seafoam green accents, but it's all burgundy now.

Originally posted by Rvl
Maybe with 4 pits the time would be faster to get everyone thru. We did one race with only one pit and we finished at about 1am.
Would look pretty impressive to see 4 trucks racing down the course.

Yeah it would. Logistically, it might be a nightmare though :D

Checkout stadiums , it is alot easier for crowd control. We always have people hopping fences .

Oh, that's all I use already. Well, kind of mini-stadiums & infields of circle tracks. This event would require something along the lines of a state fairgrounds.

On another point be careful.
2 weeks ago we had a death of a race official. It wasn`t during my race but the next one that a truck went off and hit a official.
So the whole area has been closed off by the police and owner. Now it is being decided who will pay : the driver or the organizer(our club) or the property owner.

Robert VanLane

That's terrible :( I damn near got hit by a Modified rail when I was red-flagging at an event back in about '95 or so. Not good. We use timing lights for the shallow stuff now so we don't have to put anyone out on the track when the fast guys run. And when we run the "Pit", we keep all the officials as far back as possible. Still, anything can happen, and we carry lots of insurance :(

TEX

Originally posted by DRM
Hey TEX - off topic here, but our club held our first mud bog competition last night...

Lots of mistakes, and lts to learn - but early estimates are that we had 2000-2500 spectators :eek::eek::eek: (we only had stands for 600) and we finished the unlimited class at 3am with a nitrous truck and the only full pit run of the night :D:D:D

Been to many events that went until the WEEE hours. Makes for a long day :D

We had 9 classes set up - we did not had competitotrs for all of them though. largest class was 19 trucks (V8 & 38"+ tires)

We've had as many as 60 in a class locally. One event last year in the KC area had 106 trucks in the 33.1-38.5" class :eek: 19-year-old girl won the class & didn't even realize that there was any $$ involved. $1,050 for her :)

And just think - there was NO PAYOUT for our event - trophies only ;)

BOOOO! :D

We learned parking and grounds layout are VERY important :eek:

Email me @
DRM (drm1@charter.net) as I would like to get your input on some things... Overall the event went REALLY well for our first go... well enough that we would be silly not to start doing these every year ;)

Yup, layout is very important. I'm doing an invite-only race in my hometown in October. Some folks are griping that I should let ANYONE in. Well, part of the reason it's invite-only is that there is realistically only room for about 90 trucks in parking. We've had as many as 121 show up there for small-time races & would probably have nearly 200 for a GUMBO event. Plus, for my events, we get folks with enclosed trailers & they take up a lot of space. One guy just told me today that his rig is 78' long :eek:

I'll send ya an e-mail :)

TEX

Do you guys still do any racing at Yankton...?

Nope. The people hosting it were actually a motocross club. They don't really know anything about 4x4s. Kept changing rules in the middle of a run. They killed it.
Ironically, I have just been pondering the idea of trying it again, this time, with my club handling it. But I am not interested in the side by side racing through 8 inches of brown water. I want a bog! I'm thinking a relatively short track that starts dry and goes to 6 foot deep. That outta slow 'em down!

Originally posted by twistedmetal
But I am not interested in the side by side racing through 8 inches of brown water. I want a bog!

That's what we did this past weekend - a REAL bog. As I said - it took till the last of the unlimited class trucks to do a full run...

4' deep at it's deepest... thick and nasty.

Originally posted by twistedmetal


Nope. The people hosting it were actually a motocross club. They don't really know anything about 4x4s. Kept changing rules in the middle of a run. They killed it.

Yup, that's a shame. Gotta be fair & consistent.


Ironically, I have just been pondering the idea of trying it again, this time, with my club handling it. But I am not interested in the side by side racing through 8 inches of brown water. I want a bog! I'm thinking a relatively short track that starts dry and goes to 6 foot deep. That outta slow 'em down!

LOL, yeah I really prefer "Pits" to "Fast Tracks" myself. Only problem is you really can't safely put the Modifieds & Pro Mods in a deep "Pit" anymore. They're just too fast & they'd be way out of control.

And 6' is really too deep also. Nobody wants to see EVERYONE go through, but you want to see SOMEONE go through :) Unfortunately, we've had to cut our "Pits" down to about 2-3 feet deep just because of the # of trucks that show up. We end up timing (rather than measuring) all of the upper classes. But, when you get 100+ trucks & everyone enters 2-3 classes, it can make for a LONG day if you have to pull EVERYONE out the way they went in. With about 50 trucks, you should be able to run a 6-hour race even if NOBODY makes a full pass :)

TEX

BTT

Any other thoughts on this one? What about suggestions for facilities? Springfield, IL & Sedailia, MO are looking like potential possibilities right now.

TEX

TEX - from talking with some of the competitors from our event, I know payout is a MAJOR factor in how far they will travel to an event.

With that kind of purse - I can guarantee as long as it is centrally located, you will see a LOT of AL, TN, GA, and KY boys come that way to try for some green :cool2:

I will be more than hapy to help get the word out all over the SE with flyers when the time comes too ;)

Thanks for the offer to spread the word. When the time comes, I will DEFINITELY take you up on that :) The SE is a definite hotbed for mud racing, so I don't want to get too far from that. Ditto the Midwest. They actually turn trucks away at some KC area events just to be able to get the races done in a single day.

You're right about the purse. And I'm finding that it isn't just the big $$ signs on the winner's check that draw 'em in, it's how many places you pay. Knowing that they'll get a couple hundred just for cracking the top TWENTY should help me really draw 'em in. We had some GA/FL/AL folks race at the NMRO event in Springfield, MO a couple weeks back for a MUCH lower purse, but still paying the top 10 per class, instead of 3 or 4.

Too bad they paved the infield at that facility. All the dirt has to be hauled in now & so that facility is definitely OFF the list of places we could run. Supposed to be a nice facility in Clarksville, TN from what I hear. That'd be a nice location there, right on the highway. Will have to see what more I can find out about that.

TEX

I'd be interested depending on where I'm at in my life by then..... Can I get some more info on the "Hot Street" when you get a chance, no rush, since I'm just kicking around the idea of going....

My Willys is full bodied, suspension lift, 383TPI, and 37" boggers, stock wheelbase...

is that still hot street or do I have to run in outlaw mod?

any links to the different classes would be cool, and I'll do the research, I might be interested in a couple other classes as well :)

Thanks TEX,

PSD


:usa:

Originally posted by Yellowsub1962
Can I get some more info on the "Hot Street" when you get a chance, no rush, since I'm just kicking around the idea of going....

My Willys is full bodied, suspension lift, 383TPI, and 37" boggers, stock wheelbase...

is that still hot street or do I have to run in outlaw mod?

Sounds like Hot Street to me. As long as you still have lights, a windshield, & mufflers. Stock Style TPI's are fine, no "bird catchers" though LOL. Main thing some of the guys who normally run rocks would have to watch is the tires. Any deliberate grooving automatically bumps you up to classes with cut-up trucks on Nitrous. Ditto for 4-links & such. Engine swaps & lifts are no biggy.

any links to the different classes would be cool, and I'll do the research, I might be interested in a couple other classes as well :)

Thanks TEX,

PSD

:usa:

All the classes are on my website at www.gumbo4x4.com Subtle changes may be coming for 2003 or 2004, but nothing drastic. These would be the same classes I'd use for this proposed event, minus the female-only classes. Most of these are pretty stable. Hot Street, for example, remains unchanged from 1999, so I wouldn't expect much difference in it anytime soon.

TEX

Originally posted by TEX


Sounds like Hot Street to me. As long as you still have lights, a windshield, & mufflers. Stock Style TPI's are fine, no "bird catchers" though LOL. Main thing some of the guys who normally run rocks would have to watch is the tires. Any deliberate grooving automatically bumps you up to classes with cut-up trucks on Nitrous. Ditto for 4-links & such. Engine swaps & lifts are no biggy.




no bird catcher, no supercharger, no NOS, just a chip and 92 octane, and some very minor porting to get the air volume for the stroker... just some "rock made" knicks and grooves (more like slices ;)) in the tires -- so it sounds like I'm in for Hot Street


I was going to check your site, but had to run this morning, so I posted for info before looking ....Thanks


:usa:

Yeah, those "rock-made" grooves are pretty common LOL.

TEX