My Trac rod (or tie rod, whatever it is called) is bent to hell. I am thinking about replacing it.

Any opinions on what to buy. I am thinking about these ones that DAP has (probably bearmach) with grease fittings for $160/set.

I have the rockware steering dampner relocation already, so I was thinking of going with rockware.

Tom

I vote for rockware. Of course, I'm prejudice.... I have 'em

rockstomper.com Cheaper and stronger by a HUGE margin. Scott is a member of the POR list.

Way

Way - I didn't see any mention of rover products. Do you have these? Do you know if they stock or make them for Disco's?

Tom

Yes. Tell them the length you want. They can make 1.25" diameter or what I have is 1.5" diameter. The larger consists of a 1/2" wall tube sleeved with a 1/4" tube. They are stong enoungh to be a jack point for a Suburban. They can do the Rover thread pitch if you want them to. I switched to 3/4" heim joints though. If you run a 3-link with a rover axle make sure you have clearance. My drag link (pitman arm to knuckle) is made of the same material.

Way

I have the rovertym ones and have not bent them. They have some pretty good scrape marks on them so they have been hit. If I was to do it again I would make my own, not to hard to do.

I've got a Rockware tie rod that has held up very well thus far.

I believe it was $90. Taken a few drops onto some rocks without a dent (can't say without a scratch though!)

No matter which way you go, just remember that when you strenthen anything, you change your point of weakest link.

In the tie-rod game, you make the rod stronger, and effectively make the tie-rod-end weaker (relatively speaking).

IMO, I'd rather have a tie-rod that bent (fixable) than a tie-rod-end that broke (not-so-easily-fixable).

We just sleeve ours with 1/4 inch DOM tubing and call it good. We use the greasable LR tie-rod-ends though which are a little nicer.

Later,

Michael

TOM:

If you talk to the rockstomper.com guys, let everyone on the CABDR list know what they say.

I'm due for a new trac rod and maybe some of the other guys are too.

keith
discosaurus
:usa:

Since there seems to be a bit of interest in these and the Rockstomper web page pictures are just o.k. I will attach a picture of mine. I suggest going extreme and modifying your Land Rover axle (just like John at Rovertym has done) to move the tie rod in front of the axle. I felt that I wanted a very large tie rod so that it would not bend. I have very little clearance at full turn in front of the diff cover. Seeing how diff covers are prone to damage, I figure that I wanted something that was strong enough for hydraulic steering and that it would not bend into the diff cover. My tie rod now protects the diff cover a bit. I choose to run 3/4" heims. I think John did this also, so he may chime in. I feel that my weak link is in the grade 8 bolts. Or possibly the heims depending on what angle I abuse the front end at. I have found that for the wheeling I do, I hit the tie rod way less with it in front versus the back. The last advantage of this (other than being able to run a huge tie rod-conflict may occur if run behind axle with this big size) it that you free up valuable space for suspension links. Note that Rockstomper can retaper pitman arms to accept a more standard end. They can also modify your knuckles if a local place can't.

Way

Is that a "John's truck only" mod or is that for sale? Know the price?

Tom

Here is my guess. He probably can't get the drivers side knuckle with the front drag link mount (sometimes referred to as a euro knuckle on this list) at a wholesale cost. So he probably couldn't price compete with other vendors. If you purchased and installed the kuckle, you could purchase his kit as long as you went with heim jouints. You cannot stack standard tie rod ends, so you would need to go with a heim. Hence what he did was go with 3/4" heims. Drilling out the knuckles is fairly easy, but without proper equipment, I reccommend paying a machinist to do it and take your kuckles off and bring it to there store for machining. The cost of his bars should not alter by ordering them with a different thread pitch, but you may need to call and see what thread sizes he is able to do with his equipment. John, unlike a lot of other rover vendors goes out of his way to help out people that want to do untipical modifications. Often times at a loss in profit! Can't beat that for service.

Way

I know RT does the best when it comes to service. However, on my vehicle money and time budget, that type of setup is probably more work than I am looking for. I like the DAP ones since they come with grease fittings and are simple replacements at a good price. I can deal with the fact that they aren't powdercoated as $3 worth of Kyrlon can do me just fine. Plus, it seems that my Rockware relocation kit will work with it.

What I haven't heard is anyone's experience with them, so I may be the first if I go that route. I'll post what I find.

If I were to buy the kit that RT currently sells, would I still be able to use my Rockware relocation kit? Could I just buy some different ends with grease fittings? I'd like to buy from RT, but going with a new relocation kit and the added cost of grease fittings puts it up well over $300 vs. $160 for DAP for both rods, front and rear.

Tom

So has anyone tried the DAP ones yet?????

I destroyed mine last night, and DAP is only 10 min away.

My next purchase is the DAP rods and ends. Ordering them in 2 weeks. Maybe I should wait until you guinea pig them for me ??Rust on the shiny finish is all I hear bad about them. Can't beat the price with a stick. I'll just keep my old ones for spares. The new joints along with new pan hards should hopefully tighten up the steering a good bit too. I guess it's time to relocate the steering damper to the front.

Those got put on over the weekend as well. Just painted them with some decent paint and popped them on. A lot more beefy than the stock ones and they are put together well.

No trail-tests as of yet, but the install went smoothly and they seem to be a quality product.

Tom

Ok, I guess the credit card is getting a bit of use tonight.

I can source the knuckle at a wholesale price. I havent offered this front tie rod unit as a kit for several reasons. I want to give my set up some time to see any negatives, which I havent seen any yet. Also I need to redo the pan hard rod assembly as it will hit the tie rod at the pan hard rod frame side mount on trucks with less than 4/5" lift under full stuffing, so that needs to be addressed before a "kit" is offered. Mainy, the few people that may want this will do it themselves more than likely so demand is marginal. I can offer the track and drag link with any thread combo, so I am thinking any one who may want a kit or parts to augment the set up will just call me and we can work out what they need. I can source the knuckle and sell for $250 if any one may want one. They are only availiable here(US) in the disco knuckle but can fit other trucks with some part swapping.
Adam is right in the fact the tie rod up front suffers fewer hits as it is in the spotters eye and easier to spot around hang points..I really like that aspect. Also it sure does open up room behind the axle to get creative....lol. If the 3/4" GR8 bolt is the weak point....then the unit is quite strong. I dont think the strenght has been compromised and overall is proberly stronger than stock.

First off, I have the Rockware front cross tube and like it OK (what's not to like about something you put on and forget about?). I was in a bind and only needed the one, otherwise, I would have either made my own or gotten a set from John (Glad you're feeling better by the way).

I have an associate who swears by the DAP rods.

Now, onto the hardware that Adam is using. If the supposed weakest link is the 3/4" GR8 bolt holding the heim joint to the steering knuckle, perhaps this is yet another place where we should intentionally engineer this to be the weakest link and use a nice soft malleable bolt like a grade five so that instead of snapping, it would stretch gently, indicating impending failure before catastrophic instantaneous failure.

Paul

OR.........carry a spare grade 8 bolt. I am assuming that the bolt would break on the trail on not on the highway though.

But let's get real here (check out the specs of a 3/4-16 grade 8)


Tensile strength: 55950 lbf
Yield strength: 48490 lbf
Shear strength in body: 39760 lbf
Shear strength at thread: 33570 lbf
Suggested tightening torque: 410 lbf.ft OR 560 NM

Pretty impressive specs to me. I feel plenty safe. Your weak link moves to the sector shaft in the Rover power steering box if you go as beefy as me though. Also, assuming that there is no substantial impact to the tie rod and or heim joint assemlby. Note that full hysro people are using the same 3/4" rod ends.

Way

Adam:
You're right, looks like quite a bit of overkill, or perhaps, just ROBUST engineering!

The guy I worked for who taught me the whole grade eight versus grade five (with a very vulgar explanation!) was a nut about bolt grades. Hard lesson to unlearn.

Paul

A VERY VERY common misconseption about grade 5s is that they will bend and not shear. Sometimes true under low stress, but I would like to throw out that a grade eight is stronger in EVERY department over a grade five.

Way

I just wanted to throw in my 2 cents....Way, you mentioned in this post a few months ago:eek: ..that you could use a Rockstomper tierod on a Suburban for a jack point...I would have to say that it is incorrect..RockStomper had a pic of a Yota...not a 'Burb...and, I know someone with a YJ on full width axles that bent theirs..the 1.5" one. While, it is only slightly bent...it's not the "End all" of Tierods...best solution IMO is to still move them out of the way so you don't hit them...

OK, game on!

http://www.rockstomper.com/images/products/steering/rockrods/rockrod6.jpg

O.k. maybe a was a little facetious for lack of better words. You are right that the vehicle was not a suburban. I remembered wrong. However the point that I haven't ever seen a stronger tie rod (especially for the money, or for that matter dealt with a better company) it is a hell of a deal and wanted to let others know about this small company.

I do not use my 1.5" rod for a jack point, but would not be hesitant to if in an off-road situation where I was forced to. I am very suprised to see that the Jeep one was able to bend the rod! That is hard to do, but nothing is impossible. I really think that it is the end all of tie rods (as long as we aren't talking about jumping a vehicle and landing on rocks, or competition crazy stuff that gets beat up every day of the year...anything would and does fail on those rigs!). But that is my opinion.

best solution IMO is to still move them out of the way so you don't hit them...

Couldn't agree with you more on that. Especially on a rover!

Way

Originally posted by Scout Dude
best solution IMO is to still move them out of the way so you don't hit them...

OK, game on!

That's what's cool about the Rockware ones. The rear is "offset" upwards along the tube to prevent being kissed. The front doesn't have any special bend, just thick.

j

The one problem that is worht throwing out is that if you EVER plan on a three link, the rockware one is out.

Way