Thought Id post a couple of pics of my buisness partners Range Rover flexin. His rangie runs all the stock suspension control arms (no three link etc) with longer shocks, springs and the front radius arm bushes that I was going on about before (the soft rubber ones with the extra holes in them)

I think that anyone who is wanting more flex out of a disco or rangie and is thinking about 3 links/hinged arms etc should work with the stock suspension untill you get at least this amount of flex before going for more. I feel this is a lot of flex for a daily driver disco or rangie (it does a bit better than 1000 on a 20 degree) This rig is daily driver and does over 60000km or 100000miles eash year and drives very straight on the hway and doesent chew out radius arm bushes either.

Heres the pics.

Sam

Other angle.

Sam

Sam,

Very impressive! Which shocks does he run?

Rich

Very Cool.

I like seeing stuff like that. Are those 215/85's?


johnny

I am suprised that the OME kits do not perform that well. It seems that a RR owner with a little bit of time and knowledge can make kits that out perform a lot of the companies. Great pictures. Thanks for sharing!

Way

i like the blue thing in the background on the 2nd pic

I too would like to know what shocks and springs he is running. I get about the same travel at the rear - but no where near that much at the front... The drilled bushes sound a bit on the dodgy side - I am already pushing my luck with the WOF man as it is...

Its a great promo for going natural...

dick

OME is designed for something other than flex.

Its designed to carry extra weight and to a lesser extent absorb bumps and impacts w/o bottoming out.

I get close to that in the front but with a little less stuff (due to spring hieght)

Ron

Sam,

What is that HUGE antenna for on the top of the bull bar? Also, assuming he has fuel injection, how is he routing the air intake for the snorkel to that side? I'm always used to it being on the opposite side (your passenger side) of the windshield pillar. Just curious

Ali:confused:

So where do I get those bushings at? can you make some by drilling stock ones?

The shocks are stock replacement Toyota 80 series they have 10.5in travel (when its crossed up like this is would use about 10in travel) The front shock towers have been extended about 2inches and the rears have been lifted about an inch (they are as high as they can go without cutting the floor) he also has 1in bumpstop spacers in the rear. Also has a 1/2in body lift.

The springs are longer than stock but are still fairly soft and I couldnt tell you what they are cause we got so many old springs from people laying around and these are the ones that work. This rig is heavy it weighs over 6000lb just driving around in its daily driver trim.

The tyres are BF MT 245/74 on 16in rims in the photo and has now just put on the same size tyre in a Goodyear MT/R. This size tyre only just fits under the guards without any trimmine although the guard lip has been bent up. The tyres measure almost 31in.

For the engine we put in a Izusu 4BD1 (3.9l 4 cyl) and turboed it as well (this was after the the origional stock factory VM diesel crapped itseft) the isuzu then killed the LT77 gearbox so now its got an R380 which is doing better. Its got Macnamara 24 spline axles in the back and stock RR 24 spline in the front. Got a Detroit Tru Trac in the rear, open Macnamara 4 pinion cantre in the front and our ETC.

The snorkle is on the RHS cause thats where the stock air cleaner is. The arial is an big arse UHF thats hooked up to a mobile phone cause the panel beaters broke the origional mobile high gain arial.

I will try to get some of the front radius arm bushes and post some pics cause this is really the major component in the suspension. They work really well and really free up the front end and dont bind until you get to about 10in shock travel. The best thing about them is they dont flog out from hard wheeling. When the fronbt articulates the bushes dont bind up and tear the rubber and squeeze the rubber out the sides. The holes in the rubber allow the crush tube to move vertically untill the crush tube binds on the steel outer shell without doing any damage to the rubber whatsoever. So this rig has been running then for about 30000miles and lots of hard wheeling and still drives straight on the hway. On the road the only difference you notice if more body roll from the reduced front end stiffness (just like a three link) although you still get the factory antisdive with this setup (unlike the three link).

These are only prototype busher at the moment and were made by drilling holes in stock rubber bushes. At the moment the guy is making up molds to form the holes in the bushes. We will then play around with different rubber stiffnesses cause the way the bushes work it looks like we can go to a much stiffer compound without loosing travel. But I think these bushes will really be a good thing.

I promise I will post pics nex week of the bushes.

Sam

Sam thanks for going into detail on that. I have almost the same set up in on mine 10.5 inch travel shocks, but my compressed length is shorter than the 80 shocks I believe. Rancho 9014's. I don't get anywhere near that flex though, since I have OME's. I come close with the truck loaded for camping, and the two dogs thrown in. I need some softer/longer springs! (see picture)

That vehicle looks like it is set up quite well. I would be interested in the actual spring length that he is using as well as rate, but I understand that you may not be able to find out.

johnny

cool. hey sam, could you grab some pics of the motor in it too? ive always loved those 3.9L turbo isuzus. how much do they cost second hand over there? you can NOT find them used here for less than about $4000US.

great description, thanks!

Took some more pictures for comparison. Heres one so that you can see how much lift its got. To run bigger tyres you would have to have more lift cause this thing stuffs its tyres to the inner wheel wells.

Sam

Heres one with a wheel up on a rock and you can see how much stuff this thing gets. He does run fairly soft springs (around 210lb/in I would guess but I will work it out tomorrow) but the reason it gets so much flex in the front is because of the front radius arm bushes as these totally free up the front end untill you get to about 10in of shock travel which is a lot for a rig like this.

Sam

This next pic is the cool one - its of one of the front radius arm bushes when the rig was up on the rock. Check out the amount on missalingment (sp?) on the outer bush shell and the centre crush tube. The amount of movement these bushes allow lets the front flex and the best thing about them is the bushes dont tear and rip themselves apart from this type of abuse. These bushes have done a lot of miles on and off road and are still intact and the rig still drives as straight as when they were first instaled. You carnt quite see the hole in the rubber (you almost can) but in some other shots I took you sort of could but they were blurry so I will retake them and post them also. But anyway amount this bush is flexin is impressive!!

Sam

Heres a pic of the motor for 9 volt its a isuzu 4BD1 (non turbo) that we stuck a turbo on. We ended up fabricating the belhousing from scratch to adapt the this motor to the R380 gearbox. It took a bit of doing (to get everything lined up and to mount the fork and slave cylinder etc) but did the job nicely.

The turbo is really small. It get on boost at less than 1000rpm and revs to about 2300rpm (it does rev higher but if you are having a drag race from the lights this is when you change gear). We worked out the power and torque figures of the motor (by timing acceleration and deceleration through the rev range which does work out supprisingly accurate) and we think the engine has got 80kw and about 450 nm of torque (which is about 110hp and 325ftlb). This motor has got grunt!! (but not much power)

Anyway heres a pic. The motor is a fairly snug fit.

Sam

Nice job on the engine conversion! fits in there a treat.

how is the refinement of it? (ie, how much rattle and vibration from the thing?)

Jamie

So, on the front bushes, no clunking in the wet? That is a great idea with the flex at the bushings. I'll owe you a pint if you get the spring rates. I am thinking about having a set made so that I can get my flex back, yet keep my load carying ability. I think that I am always going to be stiff in the rear, because of the camping loads.

Thanks a ton for going to the trouble of the pictures... The rock up one really makes me see what I am lacking on front stuff.

johnny

So is it more than one hole drilled in the bushing? The pic looks like it is at the back of the bushing. What size hole is drilled? Is the travel limited by the shock or does it start to bind up?

Originally posted by Jamie Austin
Nice job on the engine conversion! fits in there a treat.

how is the refinement of it? (ie, how much rattle and vibration from the thing?)

Jamie

The refinement is fairly good although hard to give a measure of. Of all the rigs around here that run the Isuzu 4BD1 this would have to be the smoothest and quietest. The reason for this is that we played around with the injection timing till the thing went quiet - it doesent sit there and rattle like a tractor (but lots of others do). I have seen a few 300tdi that rattle worse and few 300tdi that are quieter so I would say it is in the ball park of a 300tdi which I feel is very good.

I would say that it as refined or better than a lot of 300tdi rovers but not as refined as a really smooth 300tdi (if this makes sence)

And if you want to compare it to a V8 then its not even close. :D

Sam

Originally posted by ciocc77
So, on the front bushes, no clunking in the wet? That is a great idea with the flex at the bushings. I'll owe you a pint if you get the spring rates. I am thinking about having a set made so that I can get my flex back, yet keep my load carying ability. I think that I am always going to be stiff in the rear, because of the camping loads.

Thanks a ton for going to the trouble of the pictures... The rock up one really makes me see what I am lacking on front stuff.

johnny

No it doesen clunk - if any rover clunks in the front end then for sure your radius arm bush bolts are loose and you should do them up cause it will wear out the bolts and flog out the holes.

Ill work out the spring rates for you but I think that your lack of front flex is probably due to your radius arm bushes. Even if you got stiff springs you should still get reasonable flex except most of it will be droop as opposed to stuff. If your shocks are to short then you wont get the droop either.

What sort of radius arm bushes you running??

To check to see if the radius arm bushes are the problem remove the front radius bush bolt on the RHS and then put the left front wheel up on a rock and see if you get more flex. By removing the bolt will let the axle rotate on that side (like a hinged arm) and release any bush bind. So then you can check the flex without the radius arm bush bind to see whats working and whats not.

Sam

Originally posted by lew
So is it more than one hole drilled in the bushing? The pic looks like it is at the back of the bushing. What size hole is drilled? Is the travel limited by the shock or does it start to bind up?

The holes are at the top and bottom - the angle ofthe photo is confusing.

The sixe of the hole would be about 1/2 inch, the hole pretty well takes out the rubber from the outer shell to the crush tube so thast when the bush flexes the centre crush tube can move all the way to the outer shell with no rubber getting in the way. And the hole also allows the stretching side to stretch without tearing the rubber. This is why the bushes last cause they dont self destruct.

With the 10.5in travel shocks the bushes bind first. I guess they bind at about 10in travel.

I will get some pics of the bush this week.

Sam

Originally posted by Strange Rover


What sort of radius arm bushes you running??

Sam

Sam,

I run stockers. I tried urethane, and they were too firm. I like rubber for the flex quality.

I can't wait to see the pictures of the bushing.

Sam, I've been considering drilling my bushes since you first told me about it several weeks ago. Just haven't gotten the nerve up yet. After seeing those pics of your friend's Rangie, I'll probably drill them this week.

One question; you stated that there are holes drilled top and bottom, but in that close-up pic, I can't see any evidnce of a lower hole. Also, do you have to heat-swage or seal the hole after it has been drilled?

One last thing. Another point of hesistation for me has been the thought of taking my radius arms loose. Is it a real bitch to get them back in once removed? This is my daily driver and I can't afford to miss work with a rig that's not driveable 'cause the radius arm wouldn't line up.:eek:

Sorry for the interrogation, but I want all my ducks in a row before I attempt this. Bye the way, it's on an '00 DSII if that matters. I really appreciate all of your advice. Lockers should be here this week, so now I'm trying to concentrate on more flex.:)

Hey Sam - thanks for the information here! It even caught BodgeRover's attention :p (hey Bodge!)

what do you think these drilled bushes would perform like with a hinged radius arm??

also - are you the guy behind Haultech technologies???


Kevin Shaw (one of your aussie mates) had sent me this link awhile back, and I'll be if the grey rangie doesn't look to be the same rig??

http://www.haultech.com/Haultech%20Images.html

cheers w/ :beer: :beer:

isaac

Originally posted by Greg Davis
Sam, I've been considering drilling my bushes since you first told me about it several weeks ago. Just haven't gotten the nerve up yet. After seeing those pics of your friend's Rangie, I'll probably drill them this week.

One question; you stated that there are holes drilled top and bottom, but in that close-up pic, I can't see any evidnce of a lower hole. Also, do you have to heat-swage or seal the hole after it has been drilled?

One last thing. Another point of hesistation for me has been the thought of taking my radius arms loose. Is it a real bitch to get them back in once removed? This is my daily driver and I can't afford to miss work with a rig that's not driveable 'cause the radius arm wouldn't line up.:eek:

Sorry for the interrogation, but I want all my ducks in a row before I attempt this. Bye the way, it's on an '00 DSII if that matters. I really appreciate all of your advice. Lockers should be here this week, so now I'm trying to concentrate on more flex.:)

Yep the holes are sort off top and bottom. If you had the radius arm mounted on the axle and drew a circle around the axle which passes through the crush tubes then the extra holes would lie on the circle above and below the crushtube.

Yep heat swag the hole to seal it would be a good idea.

The arms can be a bit of a PITA to fit back in. Having someone else to swing off a crow bar is a good idea.

I was going to get an arm and drill the holes and take some pics this week but Ive been too busy. Should be able to do them next week.

Sam

Originally posted by SeaRover
Hey Sam - thanks for the information here! It even caught BodgeRover's attention :p (hey Bodge!)

what do you think these drilled bushes would perform like with a hinged radius arm??

also - are you the guy behind Haultech technologies???


Kevin Shaw (one of your aussie mates) had sent me this link awhile back, and I'll be if the grey rangie doesn't look to be the same rig??

http://www.haultech.com/Haultech%20Images.html

cheers w/ :beer: :beer:

isaac

You dont need the drilled bushes with a hinged arm cause the hinge takes all the bind out of the bushes. If fact if you are going to run a hinged arm you probably want the stiffest bushes you can find (poly) cause the axle is only located by the bushes on one arm so the stiffer the better. Alxo make the rig handle better on road with the pin in.

Haultech - thats us. Those pics were taken about 2 years ago. Yes the silver RR is the same car and in actual fact the white one is the same rig that Im driving now (the series 2 hybrid). In my rig the only bits left are the chassis, motor, gearbox, steering wheel and brake and clutch pedals, steering box and suspension controll arms. Its come a long way.

Sam

Thanks Sam, that cleared alot up. I'm installing lockers in the next few weeks so I may just make a day of it and go ahead and drill the bushes. I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks again.