cylinder size and helmet recommendations

[wheelchairman]

OK just bought a millermatic 135 110v w/o bottle or helmet. I will just be usin it for hobby work on the jeep and buddies rigs but what size bottle should I get? I will use quite a bit of gas gettin good with the welder but after that it may or may not get used tons.


Also whats a good cheap mask. I know those two words dont go together but good came before cheap as I value my eyes:laughing: I don't wanna buy a POS but at the same time i'm on a high school budget


WWPBBD:flipoff2:

[jmhinescj]

I'd say get the biggest bottle that you local welding supply place will let you buy...I use an 80#

as far as helmets...since your on a budget just get you a decent big window helmet...I started off with a Fibre Metel brand, worked well and then when I got out of school I bought the best miller helmet that there was. To me the auto dark helmet is nice but not as neccesary for mig welding

[Stephenw]

A 40 lb bottle will give a you decent amount of welding time. I wouldn't go any smaller. I have a Hobart auto shade helmet that works well and wasn't too expensive.

[Wicked_S10]

I will use quite a bit of gas gettin good with the welder but after that it may or may not get used tons.

What is this supposed to mean? If you are running gas shielded wire, you HAVE to run shielding gas. If you are running standard flux core, than you cannot run shielding gas. Using a higher gas flow rate dose not make better welds, and can in fact cause porosity if the flow is to high. If you are going to buy a bottle, but the biggest one your welding supplier sells, probably a 70 cf bottle. The bigger your bottle, the cheaper the gas fills are. If you are going to lease a bottle, lease the largest size that you can move and accommodate easily. I use 325 CF bottles. They last for about 1 44 lb spool of wire, Or approximately 22 hours of non stop welding.

If you can't afford a good auto dark, buy a fixed shade hood and buy a gold shade for it, they are much much easier to see through.

Later,
Jason

[wheelchairman]

What is this supposed to mean? If you are running gas shielded wire, you HAVE to run shielding gas. If you are running standard flux core, than you cannot run shielding gas. Using a higher gas flow rate dose not make better welds, and can in fact cause porosity if the flow is to high.

If you can't afford a good auto dark, buy a fixed shade hood and buy a gold shade for it, they are much much easier to see through.

Later,
Jason


What I meant to say was that after I spend a long time learnin o weld good with it then it might sit in the garage for a month w/o use until a project comes along that I need it for. I guess it just came out wrong


about how much was the auto masked that yall are buyin? I dont have a problem with saving up to buy a good mask but if its not neccessary then I'd rather just put that cash towards my 4x4 build fund:D

[oldjeep]

I've had a Hobart Hood for 3 years or so, been real happy with it. $150 from Northern.
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200322925_200322925

[jymmiek]

I use a HF auto darkening mask and I am completly satisfied with it. I think it was about $50 plus an extended warranty for about $10.

[devinsixtyseven]

When I first started learning MIG I used a 20$ cheapo helmet...it worked fine, now it's the backup/observer helmet.

I found a Lincoln auto darkening helmet, the really nice ones, for about 130-150 for the basic (no graphics) models. If you think you'll really be putting time in to learning and using it regularly, get the good helmet from the start, you won't regret it, and the first time you use it (especially if you've used a regular lid) you'll wonder how you got by without autodark. Don't cheap out on auto darkening lids...if it goes foul and you get flashed, you're gonna have a bad day. Easy to check operation--turn on the shop light and turn toward it, or just turn in the general direction of the sun...you'll see it switch. Camera flashes and lightning do it too :cool2:.

If you already have a CO2 tank for tires and whatnot, and your welder can run on straight CO2 (it probably can), you can get a regulator for your CO2 bottle for about 25-50 bucks depending on where you buy. I needed a regulator, hose, and adapter, IIRC it ran about 55-60 bucks for everything. This was easier for me than spending for another bottle...wait til you know what you're doing, then get a dedicated bottle of mix. If it turns out you suck or you hate it or you just plain don't use it, you're not trying to offload a bottle in addition to a welder...same goes for the lid if this is your first time welding. Buy cheap, if you enjoy running the glue gun then make some investments.

If you're inside (no wind, no fan) you can turn the gas down low...12cfh or so...outside, or if you have a fan running, more like 20cfh...no need to waste gas.

[wheelchairman]

As of right now the projects I know I will be doin is rock sliders for me and a set for a buddy and my grandpa has 3 old jeeps I can restore if I want to restore one/build it up so I will need to do floorboards and random other jobs on any of those jeeps. Prob do a engine/tranny/tcase swap and build a flat skid with all new crossmembers and this welder with a double pass will do 1/4 inch.

I feel like I need to get a good reliable helmet so I'm back and forth on it. A hobart auto daark is 77 on ebay however the miller helmet I really like is 144 with free shipping on ebay. so I could buy 2 helmets instead of 1 miller. Is the extra price really extra quality. I want to keep my 20/20 vision :D

[oldjeep]

Which Miller and Which Hobart are you talking about. They both sell a couple different autodark helmets, some of them under both brands. Easiest thing to do is compare the specs

[devinsixtyseven]

This welder with a double pass will do 1/4 inch. Mine says that too, but you have to make absolutely sure you have excellent access to the root, and you'll still be wondering if you're getting good penetration. Try a few practice welds on 1/4", you'll find it's only realistic if you're experienced as well as meticulous--if you're learning that usually means lucky and meticulous. Personally I wouldn't trust a single weld of mine on 1/4" at 110V, maybe not ever. More weld doesn't mean better if it's not penetrating. The difference on my box from 110 to 220 is substantial. You should be able to do 3/16 at the top end, 1/4" maybe with a lot of prep and practice. Take a look at the Miller forum and ask around, they'll give you an honest appraisal of the machine's ability to do 1/4", assuming a knowledgable operator.I feel like I need to get a good reliable helmet so I'm back and forth on it. A hobart auto daark is 77 on ebay however the miller helmet I really like is 144 with free shipping on ebay. so I could buy 2 helmets instead of 1 miller. Is the extra price really extra quality. I want to keep my 20/20 vision :Dusually the extra price is worth it. compare the response times...get the quickest response time you can find, and solar powered (always on) if possible...easy to test, you'll never forget to turn it on, and it recharges while you weld. obtw check the shade number...compare to the hottest arc you'll be using on your machine.

[Al Kaholick]

OK just bought a millermatic 135 110v w/o bottle or helmet. I will just be usin it for hobby work on the jeep and buddies rigs but what size bottle should I get? I will use quite a bit of gas gettin good with the welder but after that it may or may not get used tons.


Also whats a good cheap mask. I know those two words dont go together but good came before cheap as I value my eyes:laughing: I don't wanna buy a POS but at the same time i'm on a high school budget


WWPBBD:flipoff2:

biggest bottle that you are willing to pay for, gas is cheaper when you have a bigger bottle. A standard Jackson hood is about $40 and is a good hood.

[wheelchairman]

Which Miller and Which Hobart are you talking about. They both sell a couple different autodark helmets, some of them under both brands. Easiest thing to do is compare the specs

the miller at the best price so far http://store.cyberweld.com/miweheprohos.html

here is the hobart http://cgi.ebay.com/Hobart-Auto-Darkening-Solar-Welding-Helmet-Mask-770280_W0QQitemZ230112736877QQihZ013QQcategoryZ920 90QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Velocity2]

Learn how to weld with a regular big window hood first. Then after you get the feel of flipping the lid down then move on.

Learn the basics first, not the easy way! This will make starting your arc just that much easier (and you more confident) with a autodarkening hood.

Heck, for MIG I still prefer my jackson big window helmet. Light, tough and comfortable. best of all it only cost 30 bucks at local welding shop.

[rketr]

If you are running standard flux core, than you cannot run shielding gas.

Actually, you can run flux and gas at the same time. Supposed to give a little more penetration...

As to which you should get... start with a 40 or 80 tank. If its just for hobby it'll likely last you quite a while. I wouldn't really use the MIG side to practice...just use flux core for that...then use the MIG side when you are ready for a good, permanent, non-playing around weld.

As to the helmet... when I started, I picked up a cheapo non-auto darkening helmet and immediately regretted it. Since I really didn't know what I was doing at the beginning (was my first class), I couldn't see anything until the arc started. Went out and picked up an auto helmet the next day. Made a world of difference...

[Wicked_S10]

Actually, you can run flux and gas at the same time. Supposed to give a little more penetration...

Actually, you are quite incorrect. Standard flux core wire is not intended to be gas shielded.

You are talking about something you evidently know nothing about, which is dual shield wire. It is engineered as a flux core, gas shielded wire. Different shielding gas specs for different types of dual shield (i.e. some are designed for straight CO2, and some for C25). Dual shield wire is engineered for high deposition, high penetration applications, and even the small dual shield available, which is .035 IMS, needs a minimum of 130A, 22vdc. Well beyond the capabilities of a MM135.

This is exactly the reason that I specified standard flux core wire in my original post. Dual shield does indeed exist, but it is a different animal than flux core wire.

Later,
Jason

[wheelchairman]

awesome discussion we have going on much better than the response i thought i was gonna get


I dont wanna buy things twice. On my budget especially makes it nonsense. Looks to me like the bests specs on a hood that I can afford would be that miller auto dark with the eagle. (might as well pay extra 15 bucks for the paint) SOOOOO I think im gonna save up for that.


on the subject of welding wire..... wont .30 wire burn hotter for a deeper penetration than standard .35. Also what brands of wire do yall like? I have been told 75% argon/25% co2 is the mix i want.

[rketr]

You are talking about something you evidently know nothing about, which is dual shield wire. It is engineered as a flux core, gas shielded wire. Different shielding gas specs for different types of dual shield (i.e. some are designed for straight CO2, and some for C25). Dual shield wire is engineered for high deposition, high penetration applications, and even the small dual shield available, which is .035 IMS, needs a minimum of 130A, 22vdc. Well beyond the capabilities of a MM135.

This is exactly the reason that I specified standard flux core wire in my original post. Dual shield does indeed exist, but it is a different animal than flux core wire.

Maybe I should have expounded it a bit. I was indeed referring to FCAW-GS (gas supplemented flux core). Your first post said you could not do it at all...

[eschoendorff]

I use a HF auto darkening mask and I am completly satisfied with it. I think it was about $50 plus an extended warranty for about $10.

Same here.

[PhantomEB]

2 years ago when I brought my 175, I leased the biggest bottle they had which was 6 feet tall, freakin hated that thing as I am only a hobby welder, then this year, had a leakage problem but didnt care, I hated that bottle so much as it was so top heavy with the little suitcase welder. This time when I took it back, I rented the bottle thats pretty close to the height of my welder cart. Now its so much nicer.

[Wicked_S10]

on the subject of welding wire..... wont .30 wire burn hotter for a deeper penetration than standard .35. Also what brands of wire do yall like? I have been told 75% argon/25% co2 is the mix i want.

No, the larger the wire selected, the hotter it is going to burn, with in the limits of the machine of course. The basics behind this are that: a mig welder is a constant voltage power supply. You have no direct control of current (amperage). The power supply will increase or decrease current to complete the circuit and maintain the set voltage of XX VDC. This is wire speed control acts somewhat as a current control device. As the wire speed increases, it requires more current to melt the wire and still maintain your XX VDC set voltage. Same holds true for wire diameter, the larger in diameter the wire is, the higher the current it requires the machine to produce to melt said wire and maintain a constant voltage.

As for gas mix's. The argon/Co2 mix used most for steel, is known at most suppliers as either C25 or Gold Gas. The actual percentages of argon/Co2 vary according to supplier, I have seen anywhere from 15-35% Co2 in the mix. The more Co2 in the mix, the greater your penetration is going to be, but the increased penetration comes at the cost of more spatter. You can use straight Co2 as mentioned above, and theoretically get the best performance from a small machine like the MM135, but it is going to come at the cost of a very messy workpiece.

Brands of wire are of very little consequence. There are differences in quality among manufacturers, however, for the average hobbyist, anything that didn't ship direct from huosuckbut, china should be fine.

[oldjeep]

the miller at the best price so far http://store.cyberweld.com/miweheprohos.html

here is the hobart http://cgi.ebay.com/Hobart-Auto-Darkening-Solar-Welding-Helmet-Mask-770280_W0QQitemZ230112736877QQihZ013QQcategoryZ920 90QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

OK, the Hobart Hood I have is more like the Miller you are looking at. Pretty much the same specs except it's 9-12 not 8-12.

I'd go with the Miller given those 2 choices

[Static-XJ]

I prefer fixed shade hoods. A jackson big window runs less than $30. Comes with a shade 10, which should be just fine for a 130 class machine. You can buy lighter or darker shades if you don't feel confortable with a 10 (somewhere in the $7 range, IIRC). You can get replacement lenses at any welding shop (couple bucks). I think you should start out with a fixed shade hood, then save up for an autodark if you want one, keeping the fixed shade as a backup in case the autodark fails.

For what it's worth, I'm a certified welder, work in a shop with about 60 or so other welders. Less than 10 have autodarks. Seen all the way from HF $50 cheapies up to Jackson Next-Gens and Speedglass.

Bottom line is get what you're confortable with. I've never felt the need for an autodark, so I stick with fixed shade hoods.

[jasonmt]

on the subject of welding wire..... wont .30 wire burn hotter for a deeper penetration than standard .35. Also what brands of wire do yall like? I have been told 75% argon/25% co2 is the mix i want.

No, the larger the wire selected, the hotter it is going to burn, with in the limits of the machine of course. The basics behind this are that: a mig welder is a constant voltage power supply. You have no direct control of current (amperage). The power supply will increase or decrease current to complete the circuit and maintain the set voltage of XX VDC. This is wire speed control acts somewhat as a current control device. As the wire speed increases, it requires more current to melt the wire and still maintain your XX VDC set voltage. Same holds true for wire diameter, the larger in diameter the wire is, the higher the current it requires the machine to produce to melt said wire and maintain a constant voltage.



With the same filler at the same power settings 0.030" is going to have a higher current density than 0.035".

The smaller filler will have a higher current density and thus penetration when ran at the same power levels. This comes with two caveats though:

1) The machine used must be able to feed the smaller wire at a higher speed so a Lincoln SP175 that maxes out at 400ipm is not going to be able to feed 0.023" hardwire at more than ~125amps. A Miller 175 that can feed up to 700ipm would be a better choice as it has the wire feed speed to run 0.023" wire to ~200amps which is more amps than the machine is capable of putting out.

2) All wires have a voltage/amperage range that they run well in; 0.023" hardwire in short circuit transfer gets pretty unstable if you are trying to run it at 175amps. 0.030” hardwire with a C02/Ar shield gas mixture will run fine at 175amps and I only run either 0.023” or 0.030” in my own Miller 175.

3) A Miller 135 should not even have 0.035" hardwire ran in it, 0.023" is really all you need as it will run just fine at any power level a 135 is capable of.