This is the first build I have done by myself and I wanted to get some feedback from all of you guys on Pirate…if there are any pictures you want to see and I haven't shown, just let me know.

After last summer I decided to tackle one of the projects I always wanted to do, stretching a Jeep and designing a suspension for it. I had been researching this for a few years and decided I wanted to take on the project this year. I started back in October with the first part of the project which was.

Fix Hydraulic Steering Issues (AGR out PSC in)

The Suspension is going to be a front & rear custom 4-link, double triangulated in the rear and radius in the front. I originally wanted to triangulate the front but it was taking way too long and I really wanted to get back to wheeling my Jeep. The long arms will be made out of Schedule 80, 2.5” Square 0.35 wall for the lowers and Schedule 80, 2.0” Square 0.35 Wall for the uppers.

Here is how she stands now...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Mabell%20July-2006/DSC00397.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Coy%20Hill%20Oct-2006/Coy_Hill_Oct_057.jpg

Time to get rid of that huge tank & skid
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Coy%20Hill%20Oct-2006/Coy_Hill_Oct_082.jpg

First up...fixing the steering issues.

I was having some serious issues with the AGR system I put in last year. To sum up, after wheeling for a few hours I would lose all my steering unless I throttled our completely. Basically the pump and pulley weren't matched to produce as much fluid force as the system requires. After many hours of arguing with AGR, their solution was put Synthetic Oil in it and you’ll be fine. On a separate day they said that their systems aren’t matched for everyone’s end use and even though I was within the guidelines of system I should modify the pump and pulley further to make it work. This is not what I expected from a company like AGR.

So I gave Kelvin at PSC a call and got a new pump, pulley, and reservoir.

Here is the new Pump and Pulley
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/PSC%20Full%20Hydro/PSC_011.jpg

Old Vs. New Pump…This New Pump is much beefier and can produce enough flow to push anything including double ended rams.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/PSC%20Full%20Hydro/PSC_010.jpg

New Reservoir
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/PSC%20Full%20Hydro/PSC_003.jpg

Everything Stripped out
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/PSC%20Full%20Hydro/PSC_013.jpg

Since the new pump and pulley is out-boarded more than the original setup, the windshield washer bottle and engine coolant overflow have to be moved. I also needed to get a 20lb radiator cap since the overflow bottle was removed.

I’ve tested it since install and it works so much better than the AGR system ever did

Love the clearance without the gas tank :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/Photo_01.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/Photo_02.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/Photo_03.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/Photo_04.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/Winter_stretch_4link_001.jpg

Blown Hub

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/Winter_stretch_4link_008.jpg

Shock tweeked a bit

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/Winter_stretch_4link_023.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/Winter_stretch_4link_013.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/Winter_stretch_4link_012.jpg

Some more pics...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/IMG_0054.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/IMG_0055.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/IMG_0056.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/IMG_0060.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/IMG_0061.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/IMG_0063.jpg

Here is the Frame cut away

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/IMG_0115.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/IMG_0116.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/IMG_0117.jpg

The new frame is going be sleeved into the old frame at an angle. It will then bend towards the center of the tub at a 45 degree angle approx to the bumper where it will be a straight piece for about a foot before bending to the other side.

New Clutch Installed

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/IMG_0121.jpg

And Drivetrain back in...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/IMG_0128.jpg

Just need to fit the shift linkages for the doubler on the T-case.

Cut some solid stock to help with the disconectable crossmember we are building...this is going to be interesting :dunno:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/IMG_0122.jpg

Which will slide in the original lower link bracket here

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/IMG_0124.jpg

And then connect to a 1 3/4 tube that will attach to this crossmember from BTF

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/IMG_0126.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/IMG_0127.jpg

Some more cutting...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/IMG_0132.jpg

Fuel Cell and Storage test fitted

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/IMG_0133.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/IMG_0134.jpg

Now onto the Long Arms...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/IMG_0119.jpg

Cutting some square stock

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/IMG_0120.jpg

The rear arms which still need to be cut down once I figure out the exact length

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/IMG_0129.jpg


The front Arms

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/IMG_0131.jpg

With the tabs TIG'd on for the Radius Arms

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/IMG_0135.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/IMG_0136.jpg

All thats left on the arms is to put the JJ's in which I coulden't do yet since I broke the tips needed for the lathe to machine the jam nuts :banghead:

Also finished up making the switch panel...now time to wire it :laugh:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/IMG_0112.jpg

My initial calculations for the rear supsension

the Lower arms will be 42" long and the uppers will be 38" long.

This will produce the following...

Anti-Squat = 81.442%

RC Slope = -0.031in / in ("-" = roll understeer; "+" = roll oversteer)

RC Height = 27.212in

RC Angle = -1.782degrees ("-" = roll understeer; "+" = roll oversteer)

Instant Center X-Axis = 185.12in

Instant Center Y-Axis = 0in

Instant Center Z-Axis = 36.981in

Roll Over Angles

56.3 degrees Left
57.6 degrees Right
60.5 degrees Forward
66.5 degrees Rearward

So far everything looks good :)

Put a coat of Black Herculiner down

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/IMG_0141.jpg

And found a home for my switch panel

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/IMG_0143.jpg

Now onto the new Frame Half back...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/Frame%20Half%20Back/IMG_0150.jpg

As you can see here, we cut the top section and bent it over the new square stock to get a better welding area

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/Frame%20Half%20Back/IMG_0151.jpg

Getting it all in place

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/Frame%20Half%20Back/IMG_0156.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/Frame%20Half%20Back/IMG_0157.jpg

Time for Welding

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/Frame%20Half%20Back/IMG_0159.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/Frame%20Half%20Back/IMG_0165.jpg

Finish Welded Product

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/Frame%20Half%20Back/IMG_0169.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/Frame%20Half%20Back/IMG_0170.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/Frame%20Half%20Back/IMG_0172.jpg

From here, you can really see the shape of the new rear frame :cool:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/Frame%20Half%20Back/IMG_0176.jpg

Speaking of the suspesnsion...

Here is one of the rear arms before welding the tube adapter in.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/Stretched%20Long%20Arms/IMG_0167.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/Stretched%20Long%20Arms/IMG_0167.jpg

Here is a quick picture update

Fuel Filters and Pump w/ AN fittings ready to be plumbed in
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/IMG_0222.jpg

Cage Tie In
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/IMG_0229.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/IMG_0230.jpg

Sitting at Ride Height, Coilover FULLY extended


Crossmember Completed
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/IMG_0235.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/IMG_0236.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/IMG_0238.jpg

Driver’s Side Rear Suspension…getting measurements. Each link will be mounted 24” from the center of the Diff and both are angled with 3/8 of a pitch towards the T-case.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/IMG_0239.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/IMG_0240.jpg

Here is the Wheelbase :cool:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/IMG_0245.jpg

Ok Home Stretch... :D

Coilovers "mocked" in

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/IMG_0310.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/IMG_0311.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/IMG_0312.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/IMG_0315.jpg

Part of cage removed to mount spare tire

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/IMG_0313.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/IMG_0317.jpg

Cage re-structured and Spare Mounted

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/IMG_0319.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/IMG_0322.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/IMG_0318.jpg
Cut an old Dana 20 axle shaft in half to be the mounting piece for the wheel...at least it finally has a use :laugh:

Here is a good view of the double triangulated rear

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/IMG_0301.jpg

Coilovers fully mounted and partially compressed...once the fuel cell and tool box are loaded the Jeep sits just about level. The slightly higher back will settle some in the future but it is within 1" now. I think I am going to ratchet strap it to help break in the coils faster…once broken in the Jeep will sit at the same as it did with 5.5” coils.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/IMG_0323.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/IMG_0328.jpg

Full Hydro Steering



I mounted the Orbital Valve under the dash and it locks up close to the sheetmetal to give plenty of room for the pedals, stay out of the way of the dash, allow adjustability for the steering wheel, and protect the ocupant in the case of a line burst.



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/PSC%20Full%20Hydro/Winter_stretch_4link_034.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/PSC%20Full%20Hydro/Winter_stretch_4link_036.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/PSC%20Full%20Hydro/Winter_stretch_4link_037.jpg



Here is the Ram mounted on the plate with the tie rods locked to the right.



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/PSC%20Full%20Hydro/Winter_stretch_4link_045.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/PSC%20Full%20Hydro/Winter_stretch_4link_043.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/PSC%20Full%20Hydro/Winter_stretch_4link_044.jpg

Finnaly redid my exhaust out of some 304 Stainless I had



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/Winter_stretch_4link_046.jpg



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/Winter_stretch_4link_054.jpg



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/Winter_stretch_4link_056.jpg



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/Winter_stretch_4link_057.jpg

Since I can't use my soft top due to the massive spare on the roof, I was originally toying around with making Lexan Inserts and fastening them down with Dzus clips so they could be easily removable. But I got impatient and didn't want to weld all the tabs onto the cage right now so I scrapped the Lexan roof idea due to time and I bent some diamond plate for the roof and tailgate...I love bending metal, its so theraputic



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/Winter_stretch_4link_058.jpg



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/Winter_stretch_4link_062.jpg



Also made the cradle for the Fuel Cell out of diamond plate



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/Winter_stretch_4link_065.jpg



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/Winter_stretch_4link_066.jpg

Misc shots...



Twin Shifters

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/Winter_stretch_4link_067.jpg



Rear tow point

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/Winter_stretch_4link_064.jpg



Interior...for now

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/Winter_stretch_4link_068.jpg



Tailgate Disco

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/Winter_stretch_4link_063.jpg

And the Finished Product...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/Winter_stretch_4link_060.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/Winter_stretch_4link_061.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/Winter_stretch_4link_062.jpg

So everything is working great and I am going to do some light wheeling this week to test everyting out before I go out to Big Dog's in a few weeks. It took almost 6 months but I think it came out pretty good for my first build.

Awesome job I think after the rear end settles out it will be perfect.

Awesome job I think after the rear end settles out it will be perfect.

Thanks Man :)

I hope so, I had to adjust the front coilovers to compensate and the lower springs are really compressed so I think I need to put some stiffer springs in the front. I think right now they are 250/200 and the rear is 300/300 without all my tools and spare parts yet.

yea, all those tools and parts combined with the fuel cell and big ass box probably weigh as much as the motor winch etc.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/Winter_stretch_4link_001.jpg

Blown Hub

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/Winter_stretch_4link_008.jpg

Shock tweeked a bit

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/Winter_stretch_4link_023.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/Winter_stretch_4link_013.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/Winter_stretch_4link_012.jpg

that tub looks a bit tweaked!

I dont think it matters if the tub is tweeked im sure it sees very little if any street use

that tub looks a bit tweaked!

One too many rolls I guess :flipoff2: :)

Does having the spare up so high make it feel tippy at all? That seems like a lot of way to have up that high.

how much did the square tube run you? and what size is it?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/Winter_stretch_4link_001.jpg



How does it feel when you role your rig with the harnesses set up like that. I may be wrong but I was under the impression that the shoulder parts of the harness should be mounted around shoulder level. I say this b/c apparently if you role it with them mounted low like that it compresses you spine more so than having it shoulder level.

Like I said, I could be wrong, I'm wondering more than anything.

Does having the spare up so high make it feel tippy at all? That seems like a lot of way to have up that high.


x2, thats got to raise your COG by about a foot. And that dash crossbar would annoy the hell out of me being that high.

What kind of bushings did you use on your lowers since you are using 2.5" square tubing?

You build that cage or was it a kit?? Any more pics of your shock hoops??? Or rear tub cuts for the coilovers??

Thanks,

how did you tie the A pillars of the cage into the frame? also how did you mount the seats to the cage? Are you concerned with the 3/16" A pillars bending or folding? reason i ask is b/c there was a post a few weeks ago where someone mentioned it.

great build!

whats going on with those steering arms? looks scary.
also curious why you chose to mount your coilovers with all that plate?

other than those two questions and saying it needs to be a bit lower, looks great.

looks great did you move the front end at all

I've got a tall Jeep.... now you have a tall Jeep too! Something's probably going to have to give... either shorten her up a bit, or bring that 180# chunk of balast lower!!!

Nice project! :beer:

cool project! Looks greta overall, just wondering the same thing, kinda high and teh spare up there seem will make the rig pretty tipsy. Keep us posted on how it works.

Gui

Looks good, a bit tall but I am sure your still working out all the bugs etc. I liked the look of the factory tailgate better myself but I understand setting it up like a CJ. Nice build overall...post up some wheelin pictures when you can.

Nice work. (And Daves welds. can't hide his stainless exhaust work.)


Jeff

Sick build. You earned to be in the Hardcore thread. Keep it up:smokin:

time for some bigger tires

... well maybe not on those axles

Awesome Build! now get some wheeling shots of it :D

And oh yeah, shouldn't the thumbs be facing out on the tire carrier?

wtf is schedule 80?

wtf is schedule 80?


Heavy wall poop pipe ~.250+ wall thickness

Nice build:smokin:

Nice work. (And Daves welds. can't hide his stainless exhaust work.)


Jeff

Yeah Dave does TIG welds great and his exhausts always come out so clean...always good to have a friend that can weld like that. He has made 2 exahausts for my wranglers and one for my wifes willy's. They always come out beautiful

looks great did you move the front end at all

I went forward maybe 3" with it.

whats going on with those steering arms? looks scary.
also curious why you chose to mount your coilovers with all that plate?

other than those two questions and saying it needs to be a bit lower, looks great.

What looks scary about the steering arms? They are completly straight when fully locked.

The reason the rear coilovers are mounted on the plate is because I thought it would be cool to be able to adjust the mount at any time by sliding the bracket either up or down. I am sure it will stay just about where it is but I hadn't seen anyone do an adjustable one before.

The whole Jeep should sit 1-2" lower once the rear settles.

... well maybe not on those axles

I'm fine with the 39.5's for now...any bigger and I will have to add some 60 outers to the front axle...

Hey man do you still have your stock hinges for your tailgate????? I used mine and modified them and it came out really clean... plus might be alittle stronger than what you used...not bashin just a sugg. Ill try to put up pics later. Anyways killer build:smokin: I like it...cant wait till mine is anywhere near that complete.

How do you like that storage unit?
Nic-

Nice work, do you have any pics of how the exhaust routes from underneath?
I am trying to route mine to the rear wheel well and I have a crossmember/double triang arms. What is the size of your exhaust?

Thanks

Guess I'm a noob but is that a 9 inch front hybrid axle? You said you have you'd have to add 60 outers so what is it if it's running outers with what im guessing to be 5 on 5.5 bolt patterns?

Nice project, drop the ass and the spare tire and it will be perfect.:smokin:

if you run out of projects on the jeep try building that lexan roof. It sounds like a cool idea.

thats a bad ass rig

I'm not worthy.

good work man,

i got a TJ that needs that kind of attention!!!

i like the spare tire, no body is carrying them anymore.

how much did the square tube run you? and what size is it?

I used 2.5" square and 2" square Schedule 80 and I got it for around $16/ft.

Your build looks nice but I'm a bit concerned about the mounting location of your shoulder belts. You need to add a cross bar behind your seats that is no more than 6-8" lower than your shoulders. Mounting shoulder belts to the floor (or that close to the floor) will severely compress your spinal cord and possibly kill or paralyze you in a hard impact. The maker of your harness should have the proper mounting specs available.

And the Finished Product...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/Winter_stretch_4link_062.jpg



I like it overall. What's up with the non-symetrical tailgate hinges? :eek: I'm pretty sure you'll hear alot about that.

...The whole Jeep should sit 1-2" lower once the rear settles.

If you lower the axle end coilover tabs you'll be able to drop the upper mounts alot.

Over all good build. One thing I noticed about the rear axle coil over tabs is that you don't have side to side bracing. They may bend in a high load situation, when your fully crossed up.

PaulC

Looks good. I have two suggestions though. First shorten the coil over tabs on the rear-it will lower it alot. Second, shouldn't the tabs on the axle be in the other direction so the shock won't break(bolt going front to back rather than side to side)? Just my 2 cents.

Good Build :beer:

I never got around to really answering any questions before (too much time on the trail) but I will now.

Does having the spare up so high make it feel tippy at all? That seems like a lot of way to have up that high.


Actually this is something I was concerned about but after this whole season and being in a lot of really off camber areas, I never once felt that it was really any more tippy than before. However when I build a new cage this winter, I will drop it as far as I can.

How does it feel when you role your rig with the harnesses set up like that. I may be wrong but I was under the impression that the shoulder parts of the harness should be mounted around shoulder level. I say this b/c apparently if you role it with them mounted low like that it compresses you spine more so than having it shoulder level.

Like I said, I could be wrong, I'm wondering more than anything.

Feels fine when I roll it over, keeps me right in place though I wouldent want to be in a collission with the harness like this :eek:

I am going to put in a proper harness bar when I build a new cage this year

how did you tie the A pillars of the cage into the frame? also how did you mount the seats to the cage? Are you concerned with the 3/16" A pillars bending or folding? reason i ask is b/c there was a post a few weeks ago where someone mentioned it.

great build!

The A pillars are just bolted through the floor right now and the seats still bolt to the floor. Both of these are getting changed this winter with the new cage. The PSC A pillars are not ideal but they are the ones without the spider cut into them which are prone to failure.

... well maybe not on those axles

This will be one of the topics of the continuation of this build :laughing:

I definetly am an expert at changing the stub shafts after this season :mad3:

How do you like that storage unit?
Nic-

Its nice...if you don't have to access it too often. Its a PIA to open the tailgate every time as it dosen't support its own weight so good.

Guess I'm a noob but is that a 9 inch front hybrid axle? You said you have you'd have to add 60 outers so what is it if it's running outers with what im guessing to be 5 on 5.5 bolt patterns?

It's a 944 using Scout D44 outers and a HP 3rd member. The 609 is coming :)

Back in April I also took her apart and re-painted her :D

Not going to go through ALL the pics but here is the finished product

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/IMG_0470.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/IMG_0472.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/IMG_0473.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/IMG_0475.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/IMG_0476.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/IMG_0480.jpg

Very nice build.Can you give me some info on the fuel system?Pick -ups,pumps,fittings,filters ,is it loud????Anything that I should aviod when I do somthing similar.Thanks.

Very nice build.Can you give me some info on the fuel system?Pick -ups,pumps,fittings,filters ,is it loud????Anything that I should aviod when I do somthing similar.Thanks.

I used a holley 100psi pump with an external regulator w/return feedback to limit it to 50 psi. I used a YJ fuel rail, summit filters (50 micron & 10 micron), and 8AN fittings and hose. It is pretty quiet for an external pump, just make sure you tighten all your fittings properly so that you don't suck any air.

If you need part numbers I can give you all of the ones I used.

Awesome Build! now get some wheeling shots of it :D


Here are some from the first trial trip to Rausch Creek

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Rausch%20Creek%20Memorial%20Day%202007/Rausch_Creek_Memorial_2007016.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Rausch%20Creek%20Memorial%20Day%202007/Rausch_Creek_Memorial_2007042.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Rausch%20Creek%20Memorial%20Day%202007/Rausch_Creek_Memorial_2007059.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Rausch%20Creek%20Memorial%20Day%202007/Rausch_Creek_Memorial_2007063.jpg

Poser on Jotters Way

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Rausch%20Creek%20Memorial%20Day%202007/Rausch_Creek_Memorial_2007134.jpg

And there was Carnage

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Rausch%20Creek%20Memorial%20Day%202007/Rausch_Creek_Memorial_2007126.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Rausch%20Creek%20Memorial%20Day%202007/Rausch_Creek_Memorial_2007127.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Rausch%20Creek%20Memorial%20Day%202007/Rausch_Creek_Memorial_2007138.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Rausch%20Creek%20Memorial%20Day%202007/Rausch_Creek_Memorial_2007140.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Rausch%20Creek%20Memorial%20Day%202007/Rausch_Creek_Memorial_2007142.jpg

I broke two swaybar links, a yoke strap, a driveshaft yoke, and a knuckle.

The knuckle was a freak accident as I came down of a steep ledge with my wheels locked and hit a rock. The knuckle snapped right where the hi-steer arm was welded. So I got really good at driving in reverse to get out of the park in some torrential rains :laughing:

Now all my driveshaft carnage was because I didn't have enough spread between my upper and lower links allowing the pinion to roll up.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Rausch%20Creek%20Memorial%20Day%202007/Rausch_Creek_Memorial_2007130.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Rausch%20Creek%20Memorial%20Day%202007/Rausch_Creek_Memorial_2007131.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Rausch%20Creek%20Memorial%20Day%202007/Rausch_Creek_Memorial_2007132.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Rausch%20Creek%20Memorial%20Day%202007/Rausch_Creek_Memorial_2007133.jpg

So I moved the lower arms from on top of the tube to the bottom.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/IMG_1189.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/IMG_1190.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/IMG_1191.jpg

huh... so, as I score it, the front end design failed, the rear end design failed and the frame looks like it wants to fail... could of been worse I guess, you could have scratched the paint job!

Whoa, holy no Axle verticle separation. No need really for the lowers to be up that high, axle tube is still there... (I like the links to use as a ramp to slide objects under the axle)...

Looks like you know what you need to upgrade now and improve, beef up, and change around. Good luck!

-Dave

That's not Jotter's way, looks almost like 6A but I can't tell for sure.

Any reason you stretched the rear 14" and left the front alone? Not ripping on you just looks a little disproportionate and wondered if there was a specific reason.

Now comes the fun part; fine tunning!

huh... so, as I score it, the front end design failed, the rear end design failed and the frame looks like it wants to fail... could of been worse I guess, you could have scratched the paint job!

Ok asshat back up your BS...

I built the front axle years ago when I was running 37's and it never failed until I went up to a 6:1 atlas and 39.5" IROK's and only when I truly beat it. That is a lot of stress on those axleshafts which it wasn't really originally built for. IMO the axle has served me well and I knew after this build that I was gonna have to beef it up so :flipoff2:

As far as the suspension design, this was the 1st 4-link I have built and I overlooked one thing which I fixed the next week and I haven't had a problem since...so again fawk you

As far as the frame goes, there is nothing that looks/is remotely close to failing so why don't you enlighten me.

As far as scratching the paint, I did the paint job myself and I've already put enough damage on that this season as well. I don't know how you wheel but I wheel as hard as I can all the time and for my first big build, I am extremly happy with how everything I fabbed up and designed has worked so far.

:flipoff2:

That's not Jotter's way, looks almost like 6A but I can't tell for sure.

Any reason you stretched the rear 14" and left the front alone? Not ripping on you just looks a little disproportionate and wondered if there was a specific reason.

Now comes the fun part; fine tunning!

Yeah your right...it is the trail over around Jotters Way and Stairstep, can't remember the name.

I didn't get all the stretch out of the rear, I took 3-5" in the front (can't really remember how much. The main reason I didn't take any more out of the front yet was because I wanted do a triangulated 4-link in the front and grab a few more inches from the front at that time and then adjust the rear to pull it in a little.

huh... so, as I score it, the front end design failed, the rear end design failed and the frame looks like it wants to fail... could of been worse I guess, you could have scratched the paint job!

Yeah it just slipped my mind in the process of trying to finish 1000 things and get the Jeep ready for the trail...but once we got on the trail, it became very apparent what I had forgotten. Oh well, as I said this is my first 4-link and I am happy how it came out and works and sometimes we have to learn from our mistakes.

In June I went up to NH for a week and wheeled some awesome trails...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Field%20Trip%202007/1660395427964.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Field%20Trip%202007/1660398877965.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Field%20Trip%202007/1660402237967.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Field%20Trip%202007/gallery91139.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Field%20Trip%202007/gallery91139.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Field%20Trip%202007/gallery108878.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Field%20Trip%202007/gallery142277.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Field%20Trip%202007/gallery170010.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Field%20Trip%202007/gallery172306.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Field%20Trip%202007/gallery189736.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Field%20Trip%202007/gallery228880.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Field%20Trip%202007/IMG_2775.jpg

No Carnage but I did put it on her side :laughing:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Field%20Trip%202007/IMG_2780.jpg

Ok asshat back up your BS...
....
I knew after this build that I was gonna have to beef it up so :flipoff2:
....
As far as the suspension design, this was the 1st 4-link I have built and I overlooked one thing which I fixed the next week


Asshat.... that's original.

And I think you have done this for me in your own words.

As for the frame, the cut, turn, butt-weld back without reinforcement looks a bit susceptible to me...

Other than everything breaking, I think you did a bang-up job.

Asshat.... that's original.

And I think you have done this for me in your own words.

As for the frame, the cut, turn, butt-weld back without reinforcement looks a bit susceptible to me...

Other than everything breaking, I think you did a bang-up job.

SO have you never broken shit wheeling while you were working things out in your design or do you just wheel your wallet...whatever I will take your critisism of the frame and discuss it more as there is no reason to go back and forth with BS.

The rear frame isn't supporting much weight, the coilovers are mounted to the cage. The frame is not just butt welded, look back to the way I cut the old frame and folded it over to get more surface area to provide a stronger supported weld. I copied most of this from BTF's design for the TJ half-back.

As far as everything breaking, obviousley you didn't read :shaking:

So big deal that the axle I built about 4 years ago when I has 33's and was going to 37's is now breaking with 39.5's. I built it from mostly junkyard parts and it has served me well. At that time I coulden't afford to build a 60 or stonger. Now I can and I have to...so what is the big deal. When I finished the stretch I didn't have the time/cash to build a new axle but I had a feeling I would have to in the winter. I wheel what I've got, have a blast, learn, and adjust along the way. We arn't all born suspension gurus or with Rockwells sticking out of our mouths. I put about 1000 hours in during this build last year and I have wheeled it every weekend this season. There are things that can be improved but can't we all say that about our rigs?

So unless your going to post something that can be helpful, don't fawkin post as it is a waste.

No Carnage but I did put it on her side :laughing:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Field%20Trip%202007/IMG_2780.jpg

maybe you wouldnt have flopped it if you dropped her down a foot or 2 :flipoff2:

I used a holley 100psi pump with an external regulator w/return feedback to limit it to 50 psi. I used a YJ fuel rail, summit filters (50 micron & 10 micron), and 8AN fittings and hose. It is pretty quiet for an external pump, just make sure you tighten all your fittings properly so that you don't suck any air.

If you need part numbers I can give you all of the ones I used.

PM in the morning.

Where in NH is that? Looks like a cool spot.

It's alright man, every body learns from their mistakes. Not everything is going to work right the first time. If you knew somebody that personally lived out west they would tell you that everybody out there lives off their credit cards. They can "afford" nice stuff for their jeeps. Build your jeep how you want to. After all it's your money.

maybe you wouldnt have flopped it if you dropped her down a foot or 2 :flipoff2:

Maybe So :D

It was one of those cases where it was getting dark out (with no headlights), and I was trying to get off the trail and back to camp so I misjudged a dropoff and then bounced over :laughing:

Where in NH is that? Looks like a cool spot.

It's out near Keene...really nice wheeling terrain :smokin:

Back on track…

Since April, I’ve hit the trail about 50 times and I’ve gone through about 8 stub shafts since then.

http://www.teambigevil.com/Coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/normal_Copy_of_misc__001.jpg

So I am at the point of having to upgrade to D60 outers and 35 spline shafts. At first I was going to just cut the knuckles off my current axle, weld new ones on and call it a day. However I have decided to fully build a new axle (609) so I can do it on my bench and then bolt it in. Also this allows me to not waste a lot of parts in my HP 944 axle I built…this way I can sell it to someone who is staying at 37’s or smaller.


I picked up a set of 1550 knuckles from Spidertrax as well as a 9” Housing ( 3/8” Wall) to base the new axle off of.

http://www.teambigevil.com/Coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/normal_Copy_of_misc__002.jpg

http://www.teambigevil.com/Coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/normal_Copy_of_misc__003.jpg

http://www.teambigevil.com/Coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/normal_Copy_of_misc__004.jpg

Now that I have my shop at home done enough to work in, I won't have anymore long trips to the shop I used to work at and I can work at my own pace.

So I began by measuring my current axle from the Pinion Centerline to the WMS and then figuring out where my New axle will need to be cut.

http://www.teambigevil.com/Coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/normal_IMG_1223.JPG


Making sure everything is Level
http://www.teambigevil.com/Coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/normal_IMG_1224.JPG

Cutting down the Tube
http://www.teambigevil.com/Coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/normal_IMG_1225.JPG

And the Final Product
http://www.teambigevil.com/Coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/normal_IMG_1227.JPG

Work done over Columbus Day weekend

Here is the housing with the Inner C's on and all the metal ground down for welding

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_3021.jpg

The mating surface ready for welding
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_3023.jpg

Pinion Angle set for 3-4 Degrees

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_3024.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_3025.jpg

With the outer knuckles on...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_3030.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_3028.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_3027.jpg

The steering arm on and the caliper bracket welded on
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_3033.jpg

The Coilover bracket from BTF...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_3038.jpg

A little axle Bling

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_3034.jpg

And Finally measured the Castor/Camber

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_3035.jpg

I used a Rebco guage which makes it fairly easy, the castor is dialed in to +7 degrees, the +Camber is at 0 degrees, and the - Camber is at 0 degrees. without going into too much detail, you attach it to the spindle, get it level ad cycle the steering so that you can find castor.

The WMS of the cut down axle with the knuckles on and it came out right at 63"

nice wheelin pics! im glad to see your fixin it right

and i still think youre flicking yourself off looking at the tire carrier gussets :flipoff2: (thumbs out):flipoff2:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Hells%20Belle%20Stretch/IMG_0318.jpg

It's out near Keene...really nice wheeling terrain :smokin:

Lots of good wheeling in NH, aslong as you have permission to be wheeling the property!

Pinion Angle set for 3-4 Degrees



you sure?

http://wehrs.no-ip.com/temp/angle.jpg

you sure?

http://wehrs.no-ip.com/temp/angle.jpg

Yeah...I forgot I had it wrong in this picture. After I took it I adjusted the angle finder to be on the correct plane with the 3rd member and set it correctly for before welding the knuckles.

Good catch, I forgot about that mistake :laughing: Of course before I welded anything in place I checked all the measurements about 10 times.

Damn that front looks short as hell. What is the WMS on it?

Damn that front looks short as hell. What is the WMS on it?

63.5" the knuckles are like 12" wide each.

The unit bearings to go with the knuckles

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_3046.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_3047.jpg

And instead of using selectable hubs, I grabbed these 35 spline drive gears off a friend who didn't use them.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_3048.jpg

Ran the numbers for the 4-link front...

http://teambigevil.com/Coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/4link_front1.JPG

http://teambigevil.com/Coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/4link_front2.JPG

Looks like it should work pretty good...Anything I am missing?

Pulled out the old axle so I could mock up everything for the suspension, shocks, etc...

http://teambigevil.com/Coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/normal_IMG_3219.jpg

Sideview of what it might look like after

http://teambigevil.com/Coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/normal_IMG_3226.jpg

Welded the link brackets, caliper brackets, knuckles, and coilovers on

http://teambigevil.com/Coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/IMG_3040.jpg

http://teambigevil.com/Coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/IMG_3043.jpg

http://teambigevil.com/Coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/IMG_3045.jpg

The weld on the inner tube/knuckle after 2 passes, I was a little nervous but I just turned up the heat and took it slow and after two passes, I got good penetration and a decent looking bead.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_3050.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_3051.jpg

What kind of welder are you using? 1 pass should have been enough with any decent welder...

glad to see the front upgrade. like some other guys stated, lower it a bit and you will be amazed how much more stable it will be. check out govols rig. he knows what he is talking about. keep the fine tuning up and you will figure it all out.

What kind of welder are you using? 1 pass should have been enough with any decent welder...

Miller 212...did two passes just to be safe. I know it can do the 3/8" in one pass but I just wanted to be sure.

If you need part numbers I can give you all of the ones I used.[/QUOTE]

I would take numbers if you get time,it seems as if what you are using is working.Thanks.

The build is looking good, but that weld looks like a rusty bunghole! If you had proper penetration there was NO NEED to bugger on that weld like that.

The build is looking good, but that weld looks like a rusty bunghole! If you had proper penetration there was NO NEED to bugger on that weld like that.

x2...looks like the wire speed was too high, especially for 2 slow passes

x2...looks like the wire speed was too high, especially for 2 slow passes

Yeah for whatever reason I was a little nervous doing these knuckles which is why I did multiple passes. After the 2nd one I thought to myself that I should have left it alone as the first pass had enough penetration. I did the first pass at around 25 and the second was around 40 which was too high. On the other side, I did them both at 25 and it came out a lot cleaner. I'll have to post the pics of that one.

The build is looking good, but that weld looks like a rusty bunghole! If you had proper penetration there was NO NEED to bugger on that weld like that.

Yeah its not my finest weld...I should have just left it alone.

Oh well back to the build

So back onto the build…and better welds :laughing:

My wife is going to Vegas this weekend so I am taking the next 4 days to try and crank out as much as I can.

I am trying to finalize the front suspension design today and I haven’t decided between the 3-link or 4-link yet.

Here is the 3-Link

http://teambigevil.com/Coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/3link_final.JPG

http://teambigevil.com/Coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/3link_final2.JPG

Here is the 4-Link

http://teambigevil.com/Coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/4link_front1.JPG

http://teambigevil.com/Coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/4link_front2.JPG



By numbers alone, the 3-Link with Panhard seems to be the way not too mention that it is easier to clear than a 4-link under a TJ but is there anything I am missing?

whats going on with those steering arms? looks scary.


333630

What looks scary about the steering arms? They are completly straight when fully locked.


And there was Carnage

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/Rausch%20Creek%20Memorial%20Day%202007/Rausch_Creek_Memorial_2007138.jpg

The knuckle was a freak accident as I came down of a steep ledge with my wheels locked and hit a rock. The knuckle snapped right where the hi-steer arm was welded. So I got really good at driving in reverse to get out of the park in some torrential rains :laughing:

:nuke:
Not a freak accident, proof of why not to weld steering arms/knuckles. That's what biggreentj was pointing out, not if the tie rods were straight.

Overall cool build, as you noted, there are somethings that still need to be fixed/ugraded but that's how you learn. I doubt anyone on here build a perfect rig the first time out.

The 609 is :smokin: :grinpimp: Will the axle shaft still fit through the bung hole weld? Might need some work with a die grinder.

Cut an old Dana 20 axle shaft in half to be the mounting piece for the wheel...at least it finally has a use

If the "Dana 20 flipoff guy spare tire carrier" is the only thing some guys can find to pick on...then :flipoff2: (pssst... the thumbs have to be facing the "wrong" way, it the way the gussets are cut :shaking:)

we have 5 rigs around here that i run with and we all have 3 link fronts. i love it no bind, i was real pressed for room so it was my best option.

So back onto the build…and better welds :laughing:

My wife is going to Vegas this weekend so I am taking the next 4 days to try and crank out as much as I can.

I am trying to finalize the front suspension design today and I haven’t decided between the 3-link or 4-link yet.

Here is the 3-Link

http://teambigevil.com/Coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/3link_final.JPG

http://teambigevil.com/Coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/3link_final2.JPG

Here is the 4-Link

http://teambigevil.com/Coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/4link_front1.JPG

http://teambigevil.com/Coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/4link_front2.JPG



By numbers alone, the 3-Link with Panhard seems to be the way not too mention that it is easier to clear than a 4-link under a TJ but is there anything I am missing?

Damn dude, only 4 or 5 inches of verticle separation on the links at the axle end? One would think you would have learned after the first time when your axle rolled back to have more than that. You need to be shooting for 8 or 9"

Damn dude, only 4 or 5 inches of verticle separation on the links at the axle end? One would think you would have learned after the first time when your axle rolled back to have more than that. You need to be shooting for 8 or 9"

I was off in the calculator...I just re-measured and I am going to have 8" of vertical seperation between the lower and upper links. I must have left that in there when I had done my calculation for my current radius four link.

Definetly learned my lesson last time :laughing:

333630





:nuke:
Not a freak accident, proof of why not to weld steering arms/knuckles. That's what biggreentj was pointing out, not if the tie rods were straight.

Overall cool build, as you noted, there are somethings that still need to be fixed/ugraded but that's how you learn. I doubt anyone on here build a perfect rig the first time out.

The 609 is :smokin: :grinpimp: Will the axle shaft still fit through the bung hole weld? Might need some work with a die grinder.



If the "Dana 20 flipoff guy spare tire carrier" is the only thing some guys can find to pick on...then :flipoff2: (pssst... the thumbs have to be facing the "wrong" way, it the way the gussets are cut :shaking:)

I didn't realize what he was referring to at first but when it happened (of course the worse possible place) it was all very clear.

Definetly learning as I go especially when I set something up, test it, don't like it, then have to cut it off and re-design :laughing:

Thankfully the shaft fits perfectly so I don't need to clearance it any.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_3252.jpg

Guess somebody needs to tell Dan to flip the image before they cut any more of those gussetts :p:laughing:

On Halloween, I got a little treat :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_3248.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_3237.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_3236.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_3241.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_3242.jpg

Bobby Long Rocks :smokin:

Spent Friday Cutting and prepping

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_3249.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_3250.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_3251.jpg

Spent today getting the coilover towers, bumpstops, and link mounts on the frame ready.

Towers tacked for measurement

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_3253.jpg

Added these to the front to cap the frame rail. I plan to tie them into the new bumper I am making as well.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_3256.jpg

TO clear the 4-link I am going to have to cut the exhaust right before the cat. I'll have o shorten/re-route later.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_3261.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_3262.jpg

Towers tacked for measurement

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_3253.jpg





Lookiong back at this, I don't think it is the correct way to mount them...too much angle on the shocks. I need to mount them so they are closer to vertical like before I think.

That's alot of angle man!

Cool build.

That's alot of angle man!

Cool build.

Yeah it was the last thing I did yesterday before wrapping up. I just tacked it to se if it would work so I didn't have to cut more iner fender but after thinking about it and cycling the axle, I just don't like the severity of the angle.

I'll just cut the rest of the fender wall out and mount it vertical.

Today just isn't my day :shaking:

First, I go to bend some tube and the bender rips out of the mounting plate my buddy made. Then I go to do some grinding and when I go to change the wheel, it is so bound that the arm of the angle grinder rips right out of the body :eek: I know I have been doing a lot of grinding but that was rediculous.

Maybe I should just give up for the day :laughing:

But first off to home depot and I wil get some cement to mount the bender right and a new angle grinder.

Please don't mount the shocks with that much angle, it will not last. Ditch the fenders and just run some tube in its place. Clean up the look, ditch some weight and allow you to run the shocks vertical

Please don't mount the shocks with that much angle, it will not last. Ditch the fenders and just run some tube in its place. Clean up the look, ditch some weight and allow you to run the shocks vertical

Yeah it was of those things that looked fine at the end of a long day. But after some dinner, and I took another look at it, measured the angles through the cycle I realized the wear on the shock would be excessive and there was a good reason why people don't run them this way.

I'll try to keep the fender but its not a bad idea to dump them along with some of the weight.

I finally got some time to start wrapping up a lot of the details after I got back from Chicago...

Picked up some steel to make the links out of. The uppers are 2 x .250 and the lowers are 2.25 x .375. The third is the axle tube for referance.

http://teambigevil.com/Coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/IMG_3277.JPG

I'm using all joints either From Ballastic or some JJ's I have hanging around. All the links are done now I just need to paint them tonight...pics to come.

Once I get home I will update all the pics as I have cut the exhaust, welded the UCA brackets on the frame, and finished everything on the axle itself.

beefy

i didnt do a whole lot of reading but i did see a pic that showed you possibly stretching the wheelbase up front. you are gonna run bigger tires right?

i didnt do a whole lot of reading but i did see a pic that showed you possibly stretching the wheelbase up front. you are gonna run bigger tires right?

Yeah...I am running 40's right now though I am looking to trade/sell to go up to 42's or so

Here she is all primed up

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_3293.jpg

And with paint

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_3300.jpg

The Lower Links

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_3301.jpg

Looking good...I like the orange links. Also good call on the JJ's, I have them on my suspension and it rides like a dream.

A Shot of the new mount for the Hydro Steering

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_3321.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_3322.jpg

Might need to make a guard in the future though :laughing:

Shafts Installed

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_3312.jpg

Outer Knuckle Installed :cool:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_3318.jpg

Brakes installed

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_3324.jpg

ill trade you my 18 year old sister and a case of beer for that front axle :flipoff2: nice build man! those bobby long shafts are :grinpimp:

There is a guy on my club building one just like yours:D

Looking great Jay:grinpimp:

There is a guy on my club building one just like yours:D

Looking great Jay:grinpimp:

Thanks Fabio :D

Just gotta finish her up and get on the trail this week :smokin:

bling bling.... looks good. that front axle is sweet!! i am saving for those longfields.

Thanks Fabio :D

Just gotta finish her up and get on the trail this week :smokin:

Cool,

Hopefully you can make it for the run on the 9th

Cool,

Hopefully you can make it for the run on the 9th

I completley forgot about that trip...I haven't been to Rattlesnake in a while and I'll just get back from Japan that friday so I am going to plan to go :D

I completley forgot about that trip...I haven't been to Rattlesnake in a while and I'll just get back from Japan that friday so I am going to plan to go :D

Nice.. looking forward to follow you lines:p

Pics of sister.

Finished making the Coilover Mounts

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_1236.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_1237.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_1238.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_1239.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_1245.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_1246.jpg

Bump Stops in

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_1249.jpg

Made the Tie-Rods

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_1247.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_1248.jpg

Time for a Big update...I finished her up but have been too busy to post up.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_1253.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_1254.jpg

They come close to hitting the back of the knuckle during steering but everything clears through a full steering cycle :thumbsup:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_1255.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_1264.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_1256.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_1258.jpg

Made the mounts for the x-bar which will have a bushing welded to a piece of tube which braces the coiovers laterally.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_1259.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_1260.jpg

I am also planning on mounting the shock cans under the hood attached to the X-bar so that the hoses and resorvoir is out of harms way.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_1263.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_3325.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_3326.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_3327.jpg

A few small details to wrap up and she will be wheelable :banana:

Thanks to Kenneth from Kore for making me some new beadlock rings :smokin:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_1251.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_1252.jpg

SHot of the suspension


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_3334.jpg

Didn't like the way the new springs (250/300) rode, sat, and flexed so I went to 200/250 and am more happy.

Swapped in the new coils...

Before with 250/300

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_3325.jpg

Now with 200/250

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_1317.jpg


Flexes pretty good and feels very stable.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_1305.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_1308.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_1311.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_1316.jpg

So far I am very happy and I am going to flog it really good on Sat.

The only thing I have to work on is the brakes. The TJ MC isn't up to the new Wilwood brakes so I am going to put in a Dodge 3500 MC to get some more fluid to help stop the beast.

Wow sweet nice build. I heard there was some good stuff here:beer:

First... Nice build!! Good for you to figure things out.. I have two questions.. You know that you dont need teflon tape on the flared end of your AN fittings??? on the first page you can see it on your fuel filters.. And Did you paint the front diff with a brush?? LOL

nothing like trial and error to learn things well,i admire your persistence to get it all worked out,now go show those trails whos boss!:D

It's a shame that beautiful axle got stuck in there with booger welds and spray paint. :shaking:

First... Nice build!! Good for you to figure things out.. I have two questions.. You know that you dont need teflon tape on the flared end of your AN fittings??? on the first page you can see it on your fuel filters.. And Did you paint the front diff with a brush?? LOL

Thanks Man :) My wife wanted to help out and she went ahead and taped all the threads. No harm but at least it keeps her busy and feeling like she is helping out. Both axles, frame, etc were brush painted with POR 15 though I am not too impressed with the durability of the Silver versus the black.

It's a shame that beautiful axle got stuck in there with booger welds and spray paint. :shaking:

Shame :flipoff2:

nothing like trial and error to learn things well,i admire your persistence to get it all worked out,now go show those trails whos boss!:D

Thanks :) I've learned a lot, made some mistakes, but had a good time doing it. I know I'll get some critism and have some things to adjust in the future but I am glad I did it myself as I learned a ton. I can't wait to flog the crap out of it on Sat :D and then I will post up some pics.

How about a closeup of what this looks like now that you are driving it.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/609%20Build/IMG_1247.jpg

How about a closeup of what this looks like now that you are driving it.


I will get one tommorrow as I have drilled out the steering arm to accept the 3/4 bolts I planned on using.

Shame :flipoff2:

No, seriously... All those nice parts put together to look like white trash booty fab.

Money can't buy skill. You should have paid someone to do the fab work.

That is pretty harsh, what does your stuff look like? How does someone get skills unless they try/learn/make mistakes/try again.

I think he did a great job, sure if he tig'd stuff it would have looked better but we wheel our shit not enter it in beauty contests:flipoff2:


I am sure it will work well and who gives a fuck if he is happy with it!

Geoff

No, seriously... All those nice parts put together to look like white trash booty fab.

Money can't buy skill. You should have paid someone to do the fab work.
Dont let assholes like this guy get you upset.Youve done a great job.We all make mistakes, and no one is born a master fabricator.I think it turned out very nice.:D

I think ya did a great job man, and you did it yourself...Nice rig! Quick question, are you only running one air bump up front? Also, I think it's upside down...the bump can. Might still work but there is a bit less "lip" holding the bump from pushing up on compression.

Looks great Jay, It 's Tom from SC and JF can't wait to see you flog the shit out of it on Saterday.

That is pretty harsh, what does your stuff look like? How does someone get skills unless they try/learn/make mistakes/try again.

I think he did a great job, sure if he tig'd stuff it would have looked better but we wheel our shit not enter it in beauty contests:flipoff2:


I am sure it will work well and who gives a fuck if he is happy with it!

Geoff

Thanks Geoff :D


Dont let assholes like this guy get you upset.Youve done a great job.We all make mistakes, and no one is born a master fabricator.I think it turned out very nice.:D

Thanks :)

I think ya did a great job man, and you did it yourself...Nice rig! Quick question, are you only running one air bump up front? Also, I think it's upside down...the bump can. Might still work but there is a bit less "lip" holding the bump from pushing up on compression.

Thanks Man :D

I may have it upside down, I just followed how Poly Performance had it and what seemed right though I am probably going to move them as I come no where near compressing them.

Looks great Jay, It 's Tom from SC and JF can't wait to see you flog the shit out of it on Saterday.


Hey Tom...we had a great time at Vanes though its too bad you broke a shaft so early. I didn't remember until the way home that Evert keeps spare stock shafts for the YJ D30 in his trailer :homer: sorry I didn't remember earlier.

Here is the only picture I have from last weekend (forgot my camera) though I will update with more as I get them

http://teambigevil.com/Coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/vanes1.jpg

Had a great day, awesome trail as always, lots of carnage for people but just a yoke strap for me and the f'n IROK's keep going flat :mad3:

Going to make some adjustments to the front suspension but I beat it pretty hard for the first time out and no real issues :D

Also found out today I got on the cover of Low-Range for Jan-Feb :smokin:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/JeepJay/JFCover.jpg

great you got it out!

You should rename this "the more money than sense build"
________
1Msexy (http://www.girlcamfriend.com/cam/1msexy/)

You should rename this "the more money than sense build"

-

great you got it out!

Yeah it was good to get her out, since this winter has been so warm and snow free there is plenty of wheeling to be had still.

It was just a great feeling to know I built the whole front suspension and axle and to take it out have it drivable and then beat on it with no issues. Makes the long hours, headaches, and BS all worth it :D

It's a shame that beautiful axle got stuck in there with booger welds and spray paint.

I'm jealous too.

........working my ass off both at work and in the shop to care what others thinks..............But then again you probably love being an internet tough guy and commenting on how you think people should live their life or spend their money...must be another POS liberal.

You posted your build-up here, so you obviously care about what others say about your jeep......I am guessing you figured people would drool over your parts and over-look your....umm "fab work." I have to say your jeep has the OMG factor, but not the way you think. The whole project looks rushed and there is no "attention to detail." High dollar parts with no "fit and finish."

I am really not sure what "POS liberal" has to do with shoddy fab work....you will need to explain that one...

In the pictures, your jeep looks like the suspension is unloaded everywhere.... front, back, side-to-side.....everywhere. Looks like there is no stability, too tall and no control in the suspension. Looks like the front suspension does nothing and the rear does all the work....or should I say unloading.

I run the same size tire, 40" Creepy, I have about 8 inches less of suspension. I just can't see how your jeep can work well off-road. I could be wrong but, accending and decending ledges must be practically impossible. Serious question: Did you research anything about suspensions prior to your build? EDIT: I looked and your suspension numbers......your theory and real world do not look the same to me.

I respect the fact you did all the work yourself. I am sure you learned alot along the way. But, this reminds me of Mommy putting her child's crayon drawing of scribbles on the "Fridge" and telling little bobby....."this is the best I have ever seen!"

I am not a pro "fabber" and have done some crappy work in my day.......but, people/friends told me some of it was shit. With their advice, I went back to the drawing board and did a second attempt....with a much better outcome.

Do you want honest feed back or a bunch of poeple to stroke your ego?

exactly what I was trying to say

You posted your build-up here, so you obviously care about what others say about your jeep......I am guessing you figured people would drool over your parts and over-look your....umm "fab work." I have to say your jeep has the OMG factor, but not the way you think. The whole project looks rushed and there is no "attention to detail." High dollar parts with no "fit and finish."

I am really not sure what "POS liberal" has to do with shoddy fab work....you will need to explain that one...

In the pictures, your jeep looks like the suspension is unloaded everywhere.... front, back, side-to-side.....everywhere. Looks like there is no stability, too tall and no control in the suspension. Looks like the front suspension does nothing and the rear does all the work....or should I say unloading.

I run the same size tire, 40" Creepy, I have about 8 inches less of suspension. I just can't see how your jeep can work well off-road. I could be wrong but, accending and decending ledges must be practically impossible. Serious question: Did you research anything about suspensions prior to your build? EDIT: I looked and your suspension numbers......your theory and real world do not look the same to me.

I respect the fact you did all the work yourself. I am sure you learned alot along the way. But, this reminds me of Mommy putting her child's crayon drawing of scribbles on the "Fridge" and telling little bobby....."this is the best I have ever seen!"

I am not a pro "fabber" and have done some crappy work in my day.......but, people/friends told me some of it was shit. With their advice, I went back to the drawing board and did a second attempt....with a much better outcome.

Do you want honest feed back or a bunch of poeple to stroke your ego?

Your right I put it here for feedback and I do take the good with the bad. I've been frustrated at comments that were just made to be a dick and have no technical basis for it.

I did research suspension design a bunch before departing on this and I've learned a lot more since. On the trail it does work although I am sure there are much better designs others have done. I've gotten some comments from some guys locally who are pro fabbers and design suspensions a lot more often than me. I am going to look at what they've said and try to implement them to help improve the design.

So I am looking for critiques but if I have done something shitty that I'd like to hear opinions on how to improve it. I knew I would not get it 100% perfect the first time and it would need some tweaks over time. Its getting there and I appreciate any advice I get.

I'm still waiting to see those pictures of what the steering looks like now.

You could start by cleaning up the frame better where you cut the stock coil mounts off, capping the tubes on the coilover mounts, using masking tape when painting and either grinding your welds or learning to make them cleaner.

bandwidth exceeded on yer photobucket. boo.

You could start by cleaning up the frame better where you cut the stock coil mounts off, capping the tubes on the coilover mounts, using masking tape when painting and either grinding your welds or learning to make them cleaner.

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff209/jbdbloh7/nicewelds.jpg

Is that how you grind welds? Nice booty-fab yourself. And so what if his paint work is not up to your standards.

You two are typical. I don't know what is worse, listening to the shiatheads who know everything, or having to read thier negative bunk everytime they post. Sure, can there be some improvement? Absolutely, but atleast he is not fabbin with his fawking Visa and for sure he did it himself. You must have missed that when reading this thread.

You could start by cleaning up the frame better where you cut the stock coil mounts off, capping the tubes on the coilover mounts, using masking tape when painting and either grinding your welds or learning to make them cleaner.

how on earth is cleaning up the frame, and using tape when you paint, going to make this jeep perform any better?? not everyone wants a show quality rig.
you sure do talk alot of trash, i am curious what your rig looks like?

His rig looks like you average CJ with nice clean welds as pictured above. I wonder if he would be as excited if someone was still posting on his thread? I doubt it. I was gonna post my build pics when it was done, but I am not interested in listening to web wheelers tell me how I should have spent my money. I wonder how they don't get why people post thier shiat. Maybe to let other people see what you have done for inspiration or maybe to see what to do/not to do? What works or does not work. Certainly not for some pos to rip it for some good times... My buddy's build is almost exactly the same as mine, except his rig is in a custom shop getting some crazy paint, which will indeed look fawking amazing, magazine quality stuff, but when I am bouncing mine of the rocks and his is taking the go-around because he afraid of the paint getting damaged, who built the better rig? Maybe the answer is still squirriljeep, but my money says not. What did you think of his welding? Looks a bit like boogers to me..nice paint though...haha :shaking: