Which would be the most power to cost ratio. Going in a 94 Runner that had 3.0 V-6. Also which do you think is the easier of the two to install, wiring, exhaust, and so forth. I've read write ups on both but haven't heard the comparison between the two.
Thanks

What supra motor? turbo or non turbo?

whichever one you can get the best deal on.:usa:

I've never had any good experiences with the Supra inline 6 motor. I've owned a Supra in the past (89 non-turbo) and it was a piece of crap, slow too. And my buddy has a 88 Turbo and it's not all that fast either, could use more low end for sure. They both have oil leaking problems, and electrical problems and lots of little misc problems here and there with the motors. If you have a 5-spd in your 94, consider the 3.4 Taco motor. It will bolt up to your 5-spd tranny. It is a super smooth motor with power to boot. Otherwise I'd go for the 4.3. Just my 2 pennies :D

One thing I can think of right off the bat is the exhaust routing. With the V6 I have seen people who have problems with the exhaust hitting the driveline coming from the passenger side or won'te fit where they want it. with the I6 the exhaust is on the same side as the 4cyl so you don't have to worry about it.

Also compare HP. The 4.3 has about 150-180 HP in stock form while the Supra has 200hp. Add a turbo and you're sitting around 250. The supra will bolt up using it's own bellhousing while you have to get adaptors for the V6. The wiring harness would be about even. They are both a PITA.

Im gonna have to put in a vote for neither. I vote 350. Most common engine there is, parts availability and price is OUTSTANDING and you can get them for cheap. If you want to get the ultimate in reliability a 350 crate motor brand new from the dealer is around 1200 while a 4.3 liter crate motor is near about 2300.

This is something that I think about since if I have another motor take a dump on me I am going to put in a brand spanking new everything. No more reuse and rebuild for me after this 22r goes out.

Oh yeah, not to mention you can easily stroke a 350 and add a different crank and you get what I consider the ultimate motor for both offroading, the 383:D

But for cheapness if you already have a toy tranny you probably will be better off (money wise) with the I6, that way you dont have to go with a new tranny and tcase or any adaptors.

with the I6 the exhaust is on the same side as the 4cyl so you don't have to worry about it.


this is incorrect. I6 is on the passenger side. but that should not be the ditermaning factor any way. you can cross it over right behind the oil pan.

It is on the passenger side?

http://abacus.sj.ipixmedia.com/abc/M28/_EBAY_7bb347c7ee038298bd74096f36/i-1.JPG

Good catch.

that motor just doesn't look right!

i think there is some issue's with cross-over steering using the supra motor also, something about the oil pan clearance.

dave

I vote for the 4.3L Vortec.

I did the V8 swap (350) and if I could do it over again, I would do the 4.3L Vortec. slightly less power, but still plenty. Costs more, but its alot more reliable. Gets twice as much milage per gallon, and is lighter than a V8.

the pic above is the 7m-ge, the better motor to get, still only 3 litre though, lacking in torque. the other supra motor is the 5m-ge, only 2.2 litre 140 HP average. if you ask me, its a nice motor for a mini, i was looking into them for my pig and decided although its a straight six, its a completely different motor and way too little mass for the torque i want. the 7m has a middle sump, so no probs there, its the 5m with the front sump. althought they interchange.
if i was recommending one, which you asked me to do, i would recommend the 4.3 v-6. it just has a way better power curve for off roading, and more aftermarket parts. sure you need an adaptor, but once the up front cost is done, i think it is a much cheaper engine in the long run.

Originally posted by davefj40
i think there is some issue's with cross-over steering using the supra motor also, something about the oil pan clearance.

dave

You guys need to do a surch and get the facts.:flipoff2:
thats with the 5M motor, it has a front sump. the 7M is a rear sump. No prob with cross over.

Originally posted by Sly4rnrDRT12
consider the 3.4 Taco motor.
I just found a neat link about putting one of them into an IFS truck... http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/projects/basham_4runner/

THe surpa I6 has plenty of low end off road torque. My not be quite as much as the 4.3 or 3.4 v6, but has just as much as the 3.0 V6.

If you want the low end torque, go with the Non-turbo. Put headers on it, nice exhuast and you will have around 220hp with about the same in torque, at a relativly low RPM. If you want, you could even turbo charge the N/A and run 5 psi or so to get a little extra power at higher RPMS, but not affect the low.

The supra I6 has two main oil leak problems.
Valve cover:
To fix, get hex bolts for the valve cover with locking star washers instead of the stupid phillips head screws.

Power steering pump hose:
Replace the damn hose.

Then of course there is the HG problem on the turbo. Torque down the head to 72 ft lbs, and hope it isn't blown already.

Sly4rnrDRT12, sorry to hear you havn't had good experiences. You should come to utah and test drive two 12 second supras I have built, and as soon as I pull the runner body off my frame and stick on the truck body, I will have a 12-13 second pickup.

I have driven a few vehicles with the 4.3 vortec. All I can say is I hate the american piles of crap. Gutless and no highway revs. Good take off, but above 3,500 they start losing power and by 4,000RPM, they are complety dead. The supra I6 is at its fullest about then.

I would vote 350 before I would attempt a 4.3. You have to do probably about as much work, might as well put in something that is worth it.

Ran into a guy with a 4.3 in his truck. He was quite proud of it and the power. He wanted to race me not knowing what I had. I took off lifting the front tires off the ground and asked if he still wanted to race. Shook his head no. He was a little dissapointed.

Yes, I will admit I am a little proud of my little I6, but usually only when it comes to the 4.3. Soo many people put the 4.3 in thier trucks. Sure the 4.3 can be built up to put down some massive power, but not without spending a lot of money. I just think the 4.3 is a waste of time. A motor of that size should have at least 260HP stock. If chevy ever gets thier act together and quits making pushod motors, then I might change my mind.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SuperRunner
[B]THe surpa I6 has plenty of low end off road torque. My not be quite as much as the 4.3 or 3.4 v6, but has just as much as the 3.0 V6.

I dont have any experiance with the 4.3 in a 4x4 but I have had both a 3.0 V6 4runner and Have a 97 3.4 V6 runner. Both these rigs have 0 low end torque. if you put them in low range and let them idle into a speed bump thay would die. Both the 95 wrangler 2.5L i had and the 84 toy i have now have have far superior low end torque. My 84 with duels and 4:88s would put crawle my cuzes 94 22re with duels and 5:38s and my friends 87 22er runner with duels and 5:29. Buy out crawle i meen it would idle down and run throw places that their lower geared 22res would stall. The carbed motors run alittle richer at idle than the EFI which makes them much torqier.

Any way i got alittle off the subject, but my point is dont swap a toy V6 into your rig. They are best suited for sports cars. And if a supra I6 is no more torqie down low at idle, where you need it for rock crawling, than a toy V6 then i dont want one.

Hey randy, weren't you thinking about doing the swap?

True, I even said that in my post, the 4.3 will have quite a bit more low end torque than the 3.4, 3.0V6 and 3.0I6. With proper gearing, it won't stall.

When I stick in down in low and hold on the brake pretty hard, I can get it to idle down to 350RPM without stalling. But yes, you will be less likely to stall out with a 4.3, but on the otherhand, if you are stalling out, chances are it may be a good thing, or you might hear a loud "BANG" instead. I would rather stall out than break something. There is such a thing is having too much low end toque.

Now, I have been comparing stock to stock. Hear is some results for RWHP and RWTQ from a slightly modded 7MGTE and a stock 4.3 vortec

http://www.yotapower.com/dyno/images/7mgte_vs_4_3efi.gif

the dino reading above really does nothing for me. I want to know what an engine will do from 600 to 2000 RPM. Not 2000 to 6000. And i do not beleive that there is a 4 cyl or V6 Gas motor that has too much torque. For me i would like a motor that would alow me to run about 90 to 110 to one with my 38 and idle along at 800 rpm with out stalling. I dont want to have a rig that is 250 to 1 and i have to run at 2000 rpm to go the speed i want to go with out stalling.

What kind of stock 4.3 engine does that graph show? Carb, TBI, CMPI Vortec? And by slightly modded, that means an aftermarket turbo/intercooler setup?

I would like to see an apples to apples here, show a graph with a supercharged 4.3, against that turbo 7mgte. Or maybe a stock non turbo 7m also.

Good, Randy, I am glad you know your stuff. For what you want, I see a diesel in your future.

With more low end tourqe, you do not need to be geared down near as much to get the torque needed. You can idle at very low RPMS without stalling and putting a tramendous load on the motor.


82FB

That is from a 98 blazer. Remeber that is RW power, not crank, so it will be much lower than you will read in a book. I admit, the 4.3 numbers seem a little low. Probably should have another 30 hp and 30 ft/lbs of tq, but this is all I could find.

If I could find a superchaged 4.3 chart, I would put it up.

And slightly modded would be injectors, lexus afm and exhaust.

I wish I could get some numbers below 2000 rpm too. But I can't seem to find any. I wish, I wish, I wish.

Hey SuperRunner, did you ever get your steering box moved back and your AC compressor on?

Superunner, I wont be getting a diesel. I think a early 90s 4.3L would probable do a good job for me. not so much power that ill be braking but enough to not stall. And should get my truck going 75 or 80 on the way to the trail.

For those with a 4.3L how do you like it? Please tell us all the pros and cons you have found.

Originally posted by Clifton
Hey SuperRunner, did you ever get your steering box moved back and your AC compressor on?

No, haven't had time to mess with it. Havn't really had much time to do anything for that matter. Although, I may be taking my truck to an import drag war tomorrow night. Lets see if I can kick some honda @$$. :flipoff2:

I love my 4.3. It is from a 98 Blazer/Bravada with the 4L60e and a 4:1 tcase. Modded computer only from Fastchip Performance, stock everything else. It has more power than I need, at least with a rockcrawler suspension setup. And the crawlability, if that is the word I want, is perfect at about 60:1 low range ratio. The engine has a ton of torque.

If I need a bit more power someday, I may go with a freer flowing intake and a larger exhaust. I have the stock intake, and 2 inch exhaust right now.

Originally posted by Benny Boy
I vote for the 4.3L Vortec.

I did the V8 swap (350) and if I could do it over again, I would do the 4.3L Vortec. slightly less power, but still plenty. Costs more, but its alot more reliable. Gets twice as much milage per gallon, and is lighter than a V8.

Alot more reliable? I dont know what factors your talking about but there is no difference in the reliabilty of a 4.3 and a 350. If your talking parts breakage, then I get you.

Mileage dosent matter except for on your tow rig:D

I agree on the lighter issue of course. I guess its the southeren wheelin thing. Yall look for the lightest possible and your willing to sacrifice power for low range torque and weight.

In the south you need more HP as well as torque. We're not willing to sacrifice HP for weight.

But I disagree on the reliability of the motors.

Originally posted by SuperRunner
I took off lifting the front tires off the ground...

If the dyno curves you posted are for the same engine, are you really able to lift the wheels? I'm surprised for several reasons, gettting hooked up enough avoid wheel spin for starters.

Originally posted by skank da sock puppet


If the dyno curves you posted are for the same engine, are you really able to lift the wheels? I'm surprised for several reasons, gettting hooked up enough avoid wheel spin for starters.

Leave it to you "Mr. I'd rather drive my BMW than go wheeling over Memorial Day weeked even though I had a personal invite" to stir up trouble. Are you call him a liar. If so, just do it. We need another bitch fest over here like I need another broken birfield :rolleyes:

Robert, you've got to bring Frank over to the leased land near Clayton. You'll be overwheelmed by some for the stuff my Jeep buddies are running. At the very least, we can test Frank to the max -- maybe even flop him a few times.

Originally posted by skank da sock puppet


If the dyno curves you posted are for the same engine, are you really able to lift the wheels? I'm surprised for several reasons, gettting hooked up enough avoid wheel spin for starters.

I have several people who can vouch for me. Even a local Speed Shop, Performance Race Engineering, in south Provo.


It is called learing how to drive a turbo. You got to rev the motor and slip the clutch a little to build boost. Then punch it and drop the hammer. I do my best wheel lifts at about 10 MPH. Problem with turbo's though, is they are really hard on clutches. I replace mine every few 6 months or so. Of course that is stock disk. IF I went aftermarket it may last a little longer. I really don't mind it though. Takes me about 2 hours to change out my clutch, granted I have a spare flywheel that has been resurfaced.

Wheel spin? No, I don't think so, not with my setup. 35x14.50, and no traction bar, or sway bar. Most of the engery is absorbed by the tires, suspention and body. Loads of weight transfer going on, so breaking traction make it pretty tuff. My rig also weights 5,000 LBS. Also my rear is welded up. Without it welded up I get excessive wheel spin.

Where is clayton. I like to see crazy stuff that people do. Gets my mind going and gives me more ideas.

Originally posted by SuperRunner
Where is clayton. I like to see crazy stuff that people do. Gets my mind going and gives me more ideas.

SE Oklahoma