Our Super Duty has a 4" Rancho lift and stock 17" wheels with BFG At tires, around 33's (damn metrics, still can't remember that crap). It's a 4x4 F250 Crew Cab Diesel with the coil spring front and a solid axle. It is a nice ride, turns easy, tows the 40' 5th wheel great. It gets a death wobble when it hits a rough section of road, and sometimes when it gets going under a heavy throttle. It won't stop the wobble until at a complete stop. It takes alot of brake to stop it when the wobble starts to go. Replaced the trac bar bushings with urathane ones, put on a new rod end from the drop pitman to the knuckle. Talked to Ford, they adjusted the steering gear, checked caster, it's at 6 degrees. Lift installer says it's a Ford issue, and Ford says it's a lift issue. So now it's time for the real experts to get called on. Nobody here feels like dying just yet, so it's gotta get fixed, or it's getting sold. Thanks in advance.:beer:

mine did this with tires... id check them and maybe try a steering stablizer... if you have already said this im sorry (im a little waisted from a party...:D good luck...)

Our Super Duty has a 4" Rancho lift and stock 17" wheels with BFG At tires, around 33's (damn metrics, still can't remember that crap). It's a 4x4 F250 Crew Cab Diesel with the coil spring front and a solid axle. It is a nice ride, turns easy, tows the 40' 5th wheel great. It gets a death wobble when it hits a rough section of road, and sometimes when it gets going under a heavy throttle. It won't stop the wobble until at a complete stop. It takes alot of brake to stop it when the wobble starts to go. Replaced the trac bar bushings with urathane ones, put on a new rod end from the drop pitman to the knuckle. Talked to Ford, they adjusted the steering gear, checked caster, it's at 6 degrees. Lift installer says it's a Ford issue, and Ford says it's a lift issue. So now it's time for the real experts to get called on. Nobody here feels like dying just yet, so it's gotta get fixed, or it's getting sold. Thanks in advance.:beer:

Your lift and tires just make it worse, that is why you notice it now. The rancho suspension is probably a little stiffer and doesn't absorb the bumps as well.
http://www.ford-trucks.com/tsb/fulltext/show_article.php?tsb=05-22-1

If the trac bar was dropped down when it was lifted and the ends of the trac bar have absolutetly NO play, to check have someone turn the steering wheel back and forth quickly and crawl under the front end and check for play and make sure that your truck is not going to crush you, then check into your toe. I have lifted many different trucks and have delt with the death wobble many different times some need the toe out a few degrees some need it in, it all dependes where it is now. good luck dont give up and sell it it can be fixed

Steering gear should be adjusted, and camber adjustments should be installed for alignment. With the lift it will be impossible to replace any factory parst needed.

Get a friend (look in the escort section of the yellow pages if your buddies are flakes) and have one person wiggle the steering wheel in the freeplay.
You, look at the front end, find out whats wiggling the most.

How many miles ya got on this truck...slight chance its the wheel bearing..not likely but? Check your tow like was mentioned! Is the track bar a adjustable or did you pull the axel over to install it:shaking: If you did you MUST install a adj one! You could upgrade your stock steering stabilizer for a Donahoe dual kit, you can PM me for a price's, I am a Donahoe dealer:p

Cary

i work at a ford dealer and there is a service bulletin for that. need to reduce the caster. and ford also states it is more evident with a gasoline engine and some steering wheel oscillations after hitting a bump is normal. which leads me to belive its a tough fix sometimes. i have cured this with a simple tire rotation and adjusting air pressure in the tires. try that. its free. check the steering stabilizer if equipped. but the bigger tires and lift will definately not help things

i work at a ford dealer and there is a service bulletin for that. need to reduce the caster. and ford also states it is more evident with a gasoline engine and some steering wheel oscillations after hitting a bump is normal. which leads me to belive its a tough fix sometimes. i have cured this with a simple tire rotation and adjusting air pressure in the tires. try that. its free. check the steering stabilizer if equipped. but the bigger tires and lift will definately not help things


X2 I have also fixed several with the air pressure adjustment, I know on the stock trucks I work on if the tires do not have 60 psi they will wobble,
the second most common fix for me is the steering stabilizer,
& I have had to roll the front diff back a couple degree to cure one after I had already checked the previously mentioned repaires,

Thanks for the replies. You know this rig has about 35 grand on it right now. It's a tow rig, not a wheeler, and the lift was just for looks. It has a good stance and yet is still very resonably lifted, so it's a bummer that the thing needs anything done to it. Just spent 350 bucks for the trac bar bushings and tie rod + installation. It has a Rancho single stabalizer, and a dual would only be a band aid. So an adjustable trac bar and a fabricated lowering bracket might be the answer? Hmm, sounds doable, just pisses me off because we are talking about a basically stock rig that sees nothing more than a few dirt roads. Imagine you spend bookoo bucks on a tow rig, load up the family to go to the races, and while going 70 down the freeway, the rig starts to get outta corntrol! Your wife looks at you like she has just shatted herself, and the kids are quiet for almost a minute. You have to come to a complete stop and when you proceed, you have a uneasy feeling and drive the next 70 miles under 65 for fear you might die next time. And who do you sell it to? Another family that knows nothing about the risks? Do you tell the prospective buyer you are selling it because it's a dangerous road hazzard? Lemon law sounds like an option, get Ford to do a buy back. Or chock it up as a loss, and get into something else. I've heard the leaf sprung rigs don't have this problem, so maybe that's the best route. Obviously Chebby is not an option, and Dodge, well, palease.

You never mentioned if you checked the aire pressure in the tires. if you did, what are they at?

Damn, I just turned 23k on the 06 f350 psd cc and got the wobble. 37" tires and full traction 6" lift using 2.5 SAW coil overs :(

worked great for 10k then one day at about 70mph on the hwy I hit a pothole and it death wobbled till I brought it to a full stop. since then it has hinted at starting to death wobble but stops short of a full on episode.

here is my plan

1. rotate tires and adjust pressures.
2. put it on a rack and make sure everything is tight.
3. align to factory spec
4. install Howe ram assisst ( aside from wobble it turns hard )
5. crash it and collect the insurance.

hopefully it goes away before step 5 :D

does it do it more loaded? with trailer?

Don't forget wheel bearings, tierod ends and kingpins.
All suspects of deh Death Wobbel.

Stock pressure was 65psi. With the AT's 55 psi. Tried lowering the pressure because the stock wheels may have made the tires ride to much on the center of the tread. Took the rig to the lift guy yesterday, he adjusted the steering gear (charged 75 bucks), and suggested that it had never been looked at. The dealer said they had adjusted the steering gear, but the lift shop said there was no evidence that anything had ever been adjusted. In other words Ford lied and said they did the adjustment, when in fact they didn't(truck was under warrentee).:mad3: Truck feels better, but unless several weeks go bye without a wobble incident, it's impossible to know. Thanks again PBB for the help.

does it do it more loaded? with trailer? Hasn't mattered. Did it a few weeks ago while I was towing the rock crawler,and has done it completely empty also.

As stated above Ford has a TSB for this concern, That addresses stock trucks, but may help give you guys with lifted trucks some direction.
The TSB is 07-5-7. Here is a summary.
Set tire pressure, you may want to rotate and try some higher tire pressures.
Replaced steering stabilizer, I would install a dual set up with the larger tires.
Torque all steering and suspension fasteners.
And if all that fails, reduce caster by 0.5 to 0.75 degrees.
I know here at the Ford dealer I work at we have had success (stock trucks)
rotating tires and raising air pressure.
I have felt the wobble in these trucks, and know it definitely gets your attention

Mark

I have felt the wobble in these trucks, and know it definitely gets your attention

Mark

you sure as hell can't ingore it :skull: thanks for the 411

camo

Took a copy of the latest tsb to the original dealer, and they acted like they had no knowledge of it. After ALOT of standing there bitching and insisting they look at it, they called the other local dealer, who said they know all about it. These pricks wouldn't look at it at all saying it's lifted, so the warrantee is void. And as I mentioned, they said they had looked at the steering gear, when I now fel they really didn't. Of course now the rig 1000 miles outta warrantee.

And who do you sell it to? Another family that knows nothing about the risks? Do you tell the prospective buyer you are selling it because it's a dangerous road hazzard? Lemon law sounds like an option, get Ford to do a buy back. Or chock it up as a loss, and get into something else. I've heard the leaf sprung rigs don't have this problem, so maybe that's the best route. Obviously Chebby is not an option, and Dodge, well, palease.


see option #5 or the variant of it is a trip to ensanada with full coverage mexi insurance. a night parked on the street with the window down and the keys in it should have you in a new rig withing 2 weeks.

the TSB HAS to be performed IF the truck is under warranty. No matter if its lifted or not.


read up on this thread a bit, i am "Jess@FarmboyFab"....i just sent this guy a DR 7" drop pitman arm to correct ProComps bad geometry, and also caster cams, hes getting dual steering stabs this week.

You REALLY need dual opposing nitrogen charged steering stabilizers on these things, ive always thought they just covered up problems...but im very familiar with these trucks, and they just dont function without them; they have a very poor pump/box/drag link & trac bar setups.

Also be sure to read the part about switching to a bigger trac bar bolt...as well as i wonder if you have radius ar drop brackets or replacement arms.


http://www.thedieselgarage.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30986


email me if youd like to talk about it, a lot of the lifts out there cause this problem, its not Fords fault (fords fault is the steering wheel oscillation, NOT death wobble)....this is just magnifying some downsides of fords setup.

Why is a fawkin lift necessary on a street queen / tow rig anyways? If its going to fuck with all the angles of the steering, why do it? What a waste.

Why is a fawkin lift necessary on a street queen / tow rig anyways? If its going to fuck with all the angles of the steering, why do it? What a waste.


you expect people to understand what you do with your truck, yet are not open to understanding why different people may like something different?


get over it, people like to make their trucks look good and perform a little better for whatever the reason...they are only helping bring down the cost of aftermarket parts, so whats your worry.

bad builds and stupid people are what makes unsafe rides, just like "needs more triangulation" on a buggy, so give up with the unsafe top heavy crap and cut the fenders pirate bullshit

you expect people to understand what you do with your truck, yet are not open to understanding why different people may like something different?


get over it, people like to make their trucks look good and perform a little better for whatever the reason...they are only helping bring down the cost of aftermarket parts, so whats your worry.

bad builds and stupid people are what makes unsafe rides, just like "needs more triangulation" on a buggy, so give up with the unsafe top heavy crap and cut the fenders pirate bullshit
Na man I am not even getting at that. I am just saying that I have heard of these problems alot, and I dont understand why people lift them and stuff but never really correct the issues. Just because wobble goes away doesnt mean that everything is right. Its good that he is trying to figure it out, but I just dont see why one would lift a truck if its going to cause problems? I just dont understand the use of a lift in this situation I guess.

put balljoints on the list to check as well

Na man I am not even getting at that. I am just saying that I have heard of these problems alot, and I dont understand why people lift them and stuff but never really correct the issues. Just because wobble goes away doesnt mean that everything is right. Its good that he is trying to figure it out, but I just dont see why one would lift a truck if its going to cause problems? I just dont understand the use of a lift in this situation I guess.


Its the use of pretty much "cut rate" lift components, not the actual lift process. Its pretty much that ford made a product that is on the verge of problems from the factory, and if you are not spot-on with the lift components/install, then we are talking VERY unstable situations....this is why i only sell Rize, Donahoe Racing, and FullTraction for these trucks. Adjustable trac bars, and 4links are the savoirs of these trucks, but most dont want to spend that kind of money after buying a $40K truck, which i understand completely...but i take the stance that you pay that much for a truck, if you want to keep it that quality and ride even better in most cases, then be prepared to spend 10% of that on a system that can not only match stock specs, but exceed specs and fix fords mistakes.

half of it is that most lift shops dont want to pay the high buy in with these quality companies, and dont think they can sell them either, therefore "crap" is often stuck on trucks that need much more.


the older leafsprung doodies can do just fine with "crap"...if you dont mine the ride :laughing:


Stick with it dude...trust me, these things can be ironed out; ive gone much bigger with these trucks without issues...it just may take time and money to diagnose because of what you started with; if you dont want that, then you may rethink the situation

that dealership can get in BIG trouble by refusing warranty....regardless of being lifted. try to contact ford and tell them with your experience with that dealership. there are things they can do if you give them enough hell.......ive done many awa repairs because of people contacting ford. its too bad they treated you that way. and 1000 miles over warranty shouldnt be a big problem. especially if you have any repair history of a similar concern while it was in warranty. or bring it to my dealership. :D

I have driven the 06 ive been making the bumper for and it has a 5 " ( dealer installed at 300 miles ). it is ok - most of the time - it has 22 k on her and will start to wobble bad on poor roads - have installed a new stabilizer and dropped the track bar another 1.5 " - it helped - never tried the air pressure. the dealer wont touch it since it is lifted, even though they put on the lift for him :shaking:

that dealership can get in BIG trouble by refusing warranty....regardless of being lifted. try to contact ford and tell them with your experience with that dealership. there are things they can do if you give them enough hell.......ive done many awa repairs because of people contacting ford. its too bad they treated you that way. and 1000 miles over warranty shouldnt be a big problem. especially if you have any repair history of a similar concern while it was in warranty. or bring it to my dealership. :D

So a dealership will replace the "aftermarket" parts with factory ones and then what??? :flipoff2:

So a dealership will replace the "aftermarket" parts with factory ones and then what??? :flipoff2:



the TSB he is referring to is a steering oscillation, which calls for the steering box backlash to be tightened...no parts need to be replaced; at most in some cases the pump is also flowing low pressure, and that will need to be changed.

if your retarded you might have gotten that from what i said.....:flipoff2:
just because its lifted does not mean there is no warranty on the ford parts. steering gear...wheel bearings etc.

iv battled this a few times as well. first your not supposed to reuse the stock pitman arm nut may not make since but it is true. 2nd if you roll the caster back a little more to around 7, it helps a lott. duel or even triple steering stablizers help dampen it but thats just a bandaid. most of the "profarmance shocks" that come with the kits only last a few months at best under such a heavy truck so upgrade to so better ones(this also seems to help). we had a 05 PSD shake so bad i thought a wheel was comming off, the guy driving beside me swore the tire came off the ground. this was around 45 mph. all these this helped alot.

if your retarded you might have gotten that from what i said.....:flipoff2:
just because its lifted does not mean there is no warranty on the ford parts. steering gear...wheel bearings etc.

Yeah I know in this case it does not apply, but belive me we have had people argue this point. We had a person who's k&n was over oiled, left a puddle on the floor, and then asked why his emmisions problems were not covered under warranty???

Make sure the track bar and drag link are perfectly parraell. I've owned alot of fords, all solid axle front ends (f350 & SD) and this is always the reason for the infamous death wobble after a lift. Along with worn parts.

I don't know why they would say to reduce caster in the FSB. A Super Duty's axle setup is not all that different from 70's coil spring Fords. When you lift them and they death wobble (assuming everything is tight and in the proper alignment) it usually means there is not enough caster.

On something that heavy I would run at least 5* but would stress something more in the 7* range. That will probably see the biggest improvement IMO.

thats PART of a lot of issues...ford specs are 1.8-3.6* i beleive. Many of these companies aim for this. First off, thats something that should be changed in stock form, add a lift and you are talking real issues. I dont let a truck leave my shop with less than 3.5. Without a 4link its very hard to get the numbers you want out of these frontends, especially if you are running spacers ontop of the kit. Cams help, etc...but still its tough. Ive found ideal to be 4-6*


Fords specs for their leafsprung trucks are considerably better caster numbers...why?...whoknows, they are both D60s with similar steering setups. I think this fit their design better, or maybe made a slight mistake and thought they could get away with shading the specs rather than reengineering.


even then, caster can not be the complete cause of death wobble...ive ridden in plenty at 0* with no death wobble, just horrible characteristics. The bushings all over the frontend of these things are a very big factor as well as the bumpsteer setup and the radius arm angles...its just a junk setup that is a difficult, expensive setup to perfect

So who thinks getting rid of the Ranchos and running dual front high end shocks would be a good idea? I see alot of higher lifted Furds running dual Fox resi shocks, or simular, and thought maybe that was a good setup in comparison to single Rancho 9000s.

I have installed rail kits on many 06 Super Duty trucks. After trying to do an alignment we discovered Fords front axle is off center by 1/2". I believe this has to do with the radius arm clearing the differential. Did you get an alignment after the lift, and did they compensate for the offset? After the rail gear is installed we had to put on an adjustable track bar to center the axle so the tires would sit on the center of the tracks.

best bet would be Donahoe Racing shocks, no need for dual...as well as a DR adjustable trac bar. Thts where i would start.


i still havent seen if you have replacement radius arms or drop brackets

bigreen...help... it has gotton to the point where it death wobbles on the exact same 2 bumps in the road everyday on the way to work.

I would love to discuss with you via phone.

pm me your shop number

replied to the pm with my cell phone number...anytime, dont hesitate. Hopefully we can get your issues narrowed down.

Jesse, AKA Bigreen.

Thanks a ton for the 411 and help sorting this out. :smokin:

And because I know for a fact that Ford guys in detroit read this forum. Hey Ford guy, do me a favor and walk down the hall and kick the engineers who designed this POS a swift kick in the nuts for me. :flipoff2:

I heard dodge was selling trucks w/ out death wobble. you might look into that :D






















Who am I kidding... I have some wobbles too. Clapped rod ends, ball joints, unit bearings and worn stabilizer :D time for an HP 60 :)

I heard dodge was selling trucks w/ out death wobble. you might look into that :D

Who am I kidding... I have some wobbles too. Clapped rod ends, ball joints, unit bearings and worn stabilizer :D time for an HP 60 :)

are you kidding me ? I think ford recuited and hired their front end engineers from dodge ? that is where they learned to make em shake :flipoff2:

The only way I know to get ride of death wobble is using a hydraulic steering assist ram. I won't even bother with dampers or any other stuff.
The Hydraulic steering ram just plain works.
Some may argue it doesn't fix the cause, but i don't care, cause it will make it go away even if half the stuff under your truck is shot and you have 100 lbs of mud stuck in one wheel. trust me , been there.

By the way , it also makes the truck steer real easy when its sitting still.

Cheers

well I finally got my truck back from ford after having the heads done TWICE in the last 500 miles.

swapped out the old tires and put on new 40' IROCS and had the front alinged.

the toe was off so I had it set to in 1/8 "

the caster was 1.2 degrees but the nimrods at Big O couldn't figure out how to adjust a heim joint on my 4 link so it is still 1.2 degrees :shaking:

anyhow... the DEATH wobble is now go but it shimmys real bad especially in a turn. I will have ford do a warrenty adjustment of the steering box

anybody wanna guess how many turns of a heim joint to go from 1.2 to 3 degrees ? I will take a stab at the adjustment and then go back to Big O and verify my adjustments.

well I finally got my truck back from ford after having the heads done TWICE in the last 500 miles. Time for studs

swapped out the old tires and put on new 40' IROCS and had the front alinged.

the toe was off so I had it set to in 1/8 "

the caster was 1.2 degrees but the nimrods at Big O couldn't figure out how to adjust a heim joint on my 4 link so it is still 1.2 degrees :shaking:

anyhow... the DEATH wobble is now go but it shimmys real bad especially in a turn. I will have ford do a warrenty adjustment of the steering box Good idea...but its likely the tires contributing to the problem (balance, or tread itself)...i forget, do you have dual stabs? I never recommend them for any other vehicle, but really, these trucks cant function without them, they are designed that bad. Dual nitro charged, itll help dampen that out.

anybody wanna guess how many turns of a heim joint to go from 1.2 to 3 degrees ? I will take a stab at the adjustment and then go back to Big O and verify my adjustments. I dont know how many turns...Jack it up from the frame (tires on) until it almost pulls the tires off the ground. get under it, drop both links at a time (frame end), and you shouldnt have any problems. Then just thread each joint out. The axle shouldnt be tough to roll at this point by just pushing on the tires forward...should pull the lower links forward so you can now bolt up the longer lowers.

Id probably try about 3/4" longer first. Easy way to check caster on these things (its my quick check, i check knuckles later)...is get a cheap angle finder at a hardware store, and throw it on the flat top part of the housing (try to avoid any casting defects, lips, etc), where the diff cover bolts up....should be a flat part about 4-5" long until it drops off. Throw the angle finder on that...every axle ive come across has been right at 11* difference from that location to the actual caster (if no caster cams are installed)....Therefore, if you read 10* rolled forward at that point, you likely have 1* rolled back. Catch my drift? In this case, id try to get that angle to be about 6.5* forward...should put you around the desired 4.5*.

If you get the lowers too far out to where theres not enough shank in the link, pull the uppers in tighter to continue adjusting caster the same way. While you are doing this, you can also change the axle positioning if you are rubbing for instance, the inner fender...push all links forward along with the caster adjustment.

We had to do just that on this truck I did a couple weeks ago...pushed the whole axle forward to put the rubbing on the front bumper...which we were happier to trim than the fender. I set this trucks caster to 4.5*....and it handles like a dream. Different steering setup though, as its a 2000 with the conversion.

http://fordtruckworld.tenmagazines.com/gallery/SuperStroked/769516.jpg

And heres a different trucks setup...I just sold this kit and helped them through it....I didnt set it up myself

http://fordtruckworld.tenmagazines.com/gallery/bg02F250/756964.jpg

Those were both different style links, with the conversion kit...but maybe it will help a tad.

- Jesse

am I a retard ? or just confused

To increase the caster angle from 1.2 degrees to 3.5 degrees don't I want to make the bottom link shorter ?

No, longer. Think of how a caster works on a shopping cart. You want the point where the wheel contacts the road to be behind the pivot point of the tire. To do this you want to lean the pivot point back so the lower link is longer, top is shorter.

Ill give ya a ring back in about an hour Camo...sorry, hectic day...havent gotten off the phone.

I had dozens of customers with the same concern and Ford was no help to them. My brother and I have developed a fix for the Steering Wheel Oscillation. This is not a permenant assembly and can easily be removed. I have sold the kits for trucks with a 8+ inch kits with great results. If you are interested email me WCMOTORSPORT@VERIZON.NET

Ford does have a TSB that covers this problem, I've done the TSB to quite a few trucks and It's fixed the problem. Two times setting the tire pressure to the setting on the door label has fixed the problem. A few of the trucks had four inch lifts on them and they were also fixed by this TSB any lift of more than four inches I could care less about:shaking: And since you are a newb/nob you should really read the RULES before you post trying to sell your crap here without being a vendor.

as a follow up to my issues.

It took so long to finally sort out all the issue that the initial cause was long buried in a mire of other issues and I ended up doing the following.

set castor to 3.5*
replaced 4 ball joints
replaced trac bar ends
replaced tie rod end
adjusted new steering box
torqued trac bar bolt to 450lbs


good luck charlene :flipoff2:

I work at a Ford Dealer too and had a 06 F-250 with the exact same problem. Had about 30000 miles on it, had replaced the stablizer and gear box twice and both were only a temp fix for the truck. Tires were also cupped all to hell.

Customer did not want to upgrade their steering stabilzer, said it was not their problem that the truck had a 6" lift w/ 37's, said it was Fords problem:shaking:.

They were lucky we replaced the gear box twice for them and the stabilzer, oh well. Yeah it can be fixed, from where we needed to start though they said new or dual steering stabilzer, no need to sell the truck.

I work at a Ford Dealer too and had a 06 F-250 with the exact same problem. Had about 30000 miles on it, had replaced the stablizer and gear box twice and both were only a temp fix for the truck. Tires were also cupped all to hell.

Customer did not want to upgrade their steering stabilzer, said it was not their problem that the truck had a 6" lift w/ 37's, said it was Fords problem:shaking:.

They were lucky we replaced the gear box twice for them and the stabilzer, oh well. Yeah it can be fixed, from where we needed to start though they said new or dual steering stabilzer, no need to sell the truck.

:shaking::shaking:

stabilzers only mask the problem. They do not fix it. :shaking: Like a bandaid on a missing finger.