yeah yeah, cross post. I really don't want to pull this thing if it's something stupid causing my problem. it's getting pulled tomorrow if nobody gives me anything else to check. I know HOS originally installed this in HOS1, and Dave, I know you drove it.

Sparknotes: On acceleration from stop, my truck is trying to shake itself apart. Just installed an aussie locker in the rear. I'm assuming the tolerances are off for something.

Well, just got my aussie installed in my rear D44. I went to test drive it, and had some weird shit happening. Whenever i'd let the clutch out to accelerate, the truck would start shaking like crazy. Felt like the gears were slipping(all gears good, no chipped teeth ect.). Once I had the clutch all the way out and was actually moving, it drove fine. Only took it literally 400 feet though, I know something is wrong. Barely made it up the 20 foot 10* driveway, it was trying to shake the truck apart.

So, i'm assuming I have one of the tolerances wrong, and it can't decide whether or not to be engaged? It felt like it could be engaging then disengaging, or half engaging, but I have no prior experience with lockers. I'm planning on seeing what happens if I drive in just front wheel drive by pulling the rear shaft, then pulling the carrier out and re-doing the install, being more careful.

any suggestions?
thanks

HOS never installed it I did... worked flawless when I took it out. did you check the gear pattern? The carrier was set up for my axle... might need to shim it to get it right.

did you check the gear pattern? The carrier was set up for my axle... might need to shim it to get it right.

If you took the whole carrier (or diff case) and swapped it into your rear axle then I would strongly suggest that you either:

A.) Have the ring and pinion set up with the current case(or do it yourself its not that hard)

B.)Take the aussie locker itself out of the case you recieved and put it into the case you took out of your rear axle and re-install your original case in your rear end

This is of course assuming that you swapped in a whole new case and as we all know assumption is the mother of all fuckups:flipoff2:

yup sold it to him with the carrier. check the gear pattern first if you already didn't.

you put the shims back in the carrier with the aussie correct? If it made those kind of noises, I would guess something is fucked here dude.

Used my old carrier. re-used anything that came out with the spiders that had to be used. everything when back from where it came. Tolerances must be off:( I don't have anything better to do on a saturday:rolleyes:

So, just to make sure I didn't royally fuck up and forget them, which shims are we talking about? I made sure to mark everything and re-install where it came out of. Tried to avoid this exact problem. The only things I remember not re-using were two ''washers'' that came out with the spiders, but the aussie doesn't sit where the two washers did. I guess this is what I get for rushing

Well the reason I ask is one of the guys up here but an aussie in a front 76hp44 and left the shims out that go beetween the side gears and the carrier. I don't know why he did that but he said that they were like 1/8" thick and he didn't think he needed them. Now the left front is locked to the carrier and the right freespools. On my 76 k5 44 front in my scout there was only a thin shim between the spiders and carrier and I reused it when I put my aussie in. Everything works fine on mine. Hard to tell much more without dropping the cover.

No chance it is in the t-case/tranny?

Those are THRUST washers that go inside the carrier and the only ones you need to reuse are the ones behind the side gears. The smaller ones behind the "spider" gears can be eliminated as the Aussie Locker doesnt use them. You will HAVE to use the correct carrier for the gear ratio you are running and the correct shims located behind the carrier bearings FOR THAT HOUSING! If you change carriers you will need to reshim it. If you reused the original carrier and shims as well as the thrust washers behind the side gears inside the carrier than everything should be fine. If you are accelerating in a straight line the locker will not slip in any case as there will be no differential between the two rear tires. Not actually seeing the differential or axle I would have to agree with the clutch or some other cause for your problem.

Sean

Didn't you cross post and say you did the locker at the same time as the SOA?

As slipcomb said..if all your original carrier and parts were reused and you just put the locker in your carrier then all should be good.

It sure sounds like a bad clutch and axle wrap to me.

It looked like you pointed the rear diff yoke at the transfercase but then you talked about using a spare shaft....was the spare a CV shaft? If so then you are good.

If not, then the angles of the yokes can not exceed 4° difference.

This will work on the front shaft where you only engage it going slow but it wont work on the rear.

You took pics of your SOA...how about posting some of your diff and driveshafts.

In your BB cross post, you also mentioned removing the shortest spring to lower the truck in the back....the short springs affect the stiffness and only drop the scout the amount of the spring thickness. The longer springs affect lift and stiffness..

Did you have anyone looking under the truck as you tried to move it?
They may see what is shaking.

It almost sounds like death wobble. Probably some nasty axle wrap too.

driveshaft yokes phased correctly?

driveshaft yokes phased correctly?

I put new u-joints in my 1100 years ago and forgot to phase the yokes. It vibrated like I was running over a washboard. Had me confused for a bit. Duh !!:shaking:

Doesn't sound like it's the Aussie to me.

Does it vibrate at wheel speed or driveshaft speed?

driveshaft yokes phased correctly?

I was thinking the same thing when I read this yesterday.

I was thinking the same thing when I read this yesterday.

I marked where the zerk was on my original, then put it in the exact same spot with the new short section.

I eliminated the thought of axle wrap, but maybe I shouldn't have. The way I was thinking, my 196 doesn't have enough torque to cause it, but maybe I was wrong.

Yep, SOA at the same time. could the angle of my shackles be helping with axle wrap at all? They are at a good angle, but maybe not good for me, especially being that short.

nope, no CV shaft. just a longer orginal. Fawk, I never knew the angles had to be within 4*. I guess i'm going to have to find a CV shaft now:( So what you're saying is that my pointing the pinion up is throwing off the balance of the driveshafts and messing with the u-joints? I don't understand why my tilting the pinion up 10* would make any difference compared to if there was a lot more angle on the driveline but the pinion was at 0* like stock.

you guys are making some really good points. I really appreciate it. It does seem to have to do with driveshaft speed. I think i'm going to have dad drive it slow, and check out what it looks like underneath. May have to make a trip to the junkyard tomorrow to pick up a CV joint. Also, maybe i'll end up throwing that smallest leaf back in.

as for the clutch, I can't understand why that would be causing problems. I've been driving this thing for almost a year daily, and it's given me ZERO problems. Don't know why a problem would appear all of a sudden. I don't think thats it. I guess it's axlewrap and/or the d-shaft.

well, sounds like it's not the aussie. thanks a lot guys, I really didn't want to tear apart the axle again.
thanks again

nope, no CV shaft. just a longer orginal. Fawk, I never knew the angles had to be within 4*. I guess i'm going to have to find a CV shaft now:( So what you're saying is that my pointing the pinion up is throwing off the balance of the driveshafts and messing with the u-joints? I don't understand why my tilting the pinion up 10* would make any difference compared to if there was a lot more angle on the driveline but the pinion was at 0* like stock.


Thats it right there (well, that's my guess anyways. If I were a betting man, & had money I would bet on it).

Add the CV & see what happens.
If it diminishes, get the shaft balanced.

What you describe is similar to what I get with my front square driveshaft when I go over 25mph in 4wd.

Thats it right there (well, that's my guess anyways. If I were a betting man, & had money I would bet on it).

Add the CV & see what happens.
If it diminishes, get the shaft balanced.

What you describe is similar to what I get with my front square driveshaft when I go over 25mph in 4wd.

thanks mike, now to find a CV. anyone got one sitting on the shelf? I think I found one on ebay cheap, but i'm not sure. Bronco's use 1310's too, right?

I just snapped a bunch of pics. they're here: http://www.binderbulletin.org/forums/showthread.php?p=414557#post414557. I'm wondering if the original spacer block could be causing problems, or the fact my d-shaft is FULLY extended. I can see the splines, tried to show that iin one pic. I guess it's sitting till I get a CV.

one question about the CV. will I have any problems installing it other than it will need to be balanced? I'll be able to bolt it up right to my stock d-shaft, right? just want to make sure.

thanks again guys

You need to read a few of the SOA FAQ's!!

Or use the search button on the BB.

You will have to replace the TC yoke to match the CV joint.
You will probably have to retube the CV shaft to the right length.

Some broncos were 1310 some were 1350.

The spacer has nothing to do with it.
EDIT...afterlooking at that pic...the spacer definately has something to do with your axle wrap!!!

will do bill, didn't expect these problems ;) . spacer is going, don't know why I put it in in the first place.

well, just pulled the rear shaft. One of the u-joints was shot. running to the parts store to get another right now. not getting my hopes up, but that'd definately cause some problems.

Make sure you put them in right.
Noticed one of the snaprings wasn't even seated in your pics.

It's a major PIA to find a direct bolt in DS from the Junkyard. (Ask me how I know...).
I've got 4-5 shafts in my shed.
With the combination of different joints, yokes, & types of CVs it gets complicated.
After you take into consideration rebuilding a CV joint, grinding, cutting & matching everything up (then still needing to get it balanced).
Your best bet is to just pony up at your local Driveline shop.

Also, it's hard to tell from the pix, but is your tcase & pumkin pinion lined up or offset a bit?
If it's offset, that plus the drop (dealing with 3 axis) requires a CV.

well, i'm going to re-install the driveshaft with the new universal tomorrow. If the problem persists, which i'm sure it will, I think i'm going to be searching for a local d-shaft maker. hopefully there's one around here:rolleyes:

Mike, i'm not sure if they're offset, but I think they are. IIRC the t-case yolk isn't in the direct center of the truck. I'll post up more info tomorrow.

thanks for all the input guys. I'm not happy I probably need a new d-shaft, but i'm happy I didn't waste the time pulling the aussie for no reason. (note to self, one project affecting the same area at a time. it's easier to problem solve that way)

It's a pretty safe bet that usually with any SOA or good lift you'll need a new DS.

Where in Jersey are you? (I'm from Paramus originally).

well, i'm going to re-install the driveshaft with the new universal tomorrow. If the problem persists, which i'm sure it will, I think i'm going to be searching for a local d-shaft maker. hopefully there's one around here:rolleyes:

Mike, i'm not sure if they're offset, but I think they are. IIRC the t-case yolk isn't in the direct center of the truck. I'll post up more info tomorrow.

thanks for all the input guys. I'm not happy I probably need a new d-shaft, but i'm happy I didn't waste the time pulling the aussie for no reason. (note to self, one project affecting the same area at a time. it's easier to problem solve that way)

Double check that your yolks are in line - I don't care where the zerk was initially just put the driveshaft on the bench and get them in line.

I may be wrong, but I think your over-thinking this. I have pointed up pinion, etc, no cv, going down freeway at 80mph.

I had a bad ujoint act like that.

In my SII I had the pinion pointed up at the tcase and it seemed ok.

Whether you pointed your diff at the TC and run it on the highway or not is not really the problem here...
I still run my stock front drive shaft that way and have driven my scout in 4wd on the highway. But it does vibrate.

He has several basic flaws in his SOA that need to be addressed.
When using a standard drive shaft the angle should be equal and opposite to within 4° to be right and not cause vibration issues.

Not only is he not within 4° but his shaft is also fully extended past the travel limits of the slip yoke.(splines out the back)
He also had the ujoints installed improperly and he had the small spacer installed between the leaf and the perch which is 1/2 the size of his perch.

He needs to correct all the obvious problems to help figure out what else may be wrong.

He also has bits and pieces of this SOA/locker install problems posted on numerous sites, so I'm sure he is getting plenty of advise!!

The only way you guys will know the whole story is to read all the cross post on here, justih and the BB in the tech section and the club forum.....maybe more!!! You need to read the SOA and the locker threads.

There still may be a locker install problem!!

ok, list of things to do today: pull stupid scout spacer, and move the center pins to front hole on perches to help with d-shaft length. make sure universals are in phase with each other, and fix the slip yoke. Also make sure all universals are in properly. Also have to search for a spare hub, since I just found one of mine broken:shaking:

thanks again guys. Bill, thanks for pointing out all my mistakes :cool2: This is my first SOA, and even after reading a whole bunch of threads about it in the past, I never soaked in all the info.

Mike, i'm in Manasquan. on the coast right by belmar and point pleasant

i'm not sure if they're offset, but I think they are. IIRC the t-case yolk isn't in the direct center of the truck. I'll post up more info tomorrow.



Ignore this, this is a wives tale. When working with drive shafts work with the angles only, it doesn't matter where the center of the vehicle is.....
As Bill wrote you have a few things to fix. My opinion is the main source of the vibration is the fact that the shaft is too short. Compound that with all of the other issues and you end up with a undrivable vehicle.:eek:

Thanks Binder. i'll be shifting the axle forward an inch to give the d-shaft some play, as per Bill's pointing out I have three holes on my perches, and I used the middle. thanks again guys

Do yourself a favor and go to woody's driveshafts website. I think they are a sponsor on here.

They have a form you fill out to determine the correct DS length. Before you move the axle measure the distance as specified on the form.
That way any shop you go to will have the right centered length for the new one.

Normally with a SOA you move the axle back not forward...you are only doing this because the current shaft is too short.

The tires will rub if you try to off road with the axle forward.

Do yourself a favor and go to woody's driveshafts website. I think they are a sponsor on here.

They have a form you fill out to determine the correct DS length. Before you move the axle measure the distance as specified on the form.
That way any shop you go to will have the right centered length for the new one.

Normally with a SOA you move the axle back not forward...you are only doing this because the current shaft is too short.

The tires will rub if you try to off road with the axle forward.

thanks Bill, I will remember to do that if I have to have a d-shaft made.

updates: pulled the spring spacer thing, re-did the driveshaft slip yoke ''clip'' correctly and phased the joints correctly, and moved the springs so that the axle shifted forwards. Now the d-shaft is plenty long. Didn't solve the problem, but eliminated some possiblilities.

THEN, I had my dad move the truck forward and back when I watched underneath, since for some reason he neglected to do this before. Saw that the pinion would slip, and stop spinning for about half a second. Definately not good. Aussie is getting pulled and re-done. Something is definetely wrong inside.

thanks again guys, I really appreciate all the input:smokin:

I saw one of your cross post where you said you determined it was the driveshaft causing the problem.

Is this your final verdict?

I'm just not seeing it unless there is more to it then what is posted.

I as well as many others on here have ran a standard shaft in the SOA scout.
Now maybe with your lift springs it is compounding the problem but the scout should still start and drive down the road whether there is vibration or not.

If you go and drop the thing back to a SUA I don't see your situation changing much and it may just be a lot of work for nothing.

Everyone is just trying to help you build a safe, usable scout the first time.
You mentioned putting it on the highway right after your done...it needs to be right!!

Thanks Bill, I definetely don't want this thing being unsafe, especially when I drive it every day.

Yes, right now I decided it's the driveshaft causing my problem, which may be compounded by axle wrap, but I think it's all driveshaft. I wouldn't say it's my final verdict, but the only way i'll know FOR SURE is to put it back SUA, how it's been for the last 2 years, and see if the problem goes away. I will measure the angles of the pinion and TC flange before I put it back to SUA, for reference. I will drive it SUA, then when I get the chance get all the parts i'm going to need for the new d-shaft, and do it soon in the future. I'm guessing that 10* I rotated the axle must be throwing things off more than I imagined.

The way i'm thinking about it, by the time i'm done, the only change there will be between once I put it back to SUA and before this whole project started is the aussie. If the problem persists, theres something wrong in the carrier, but the aussie passed the spin test. I will be putting the original driveshaft back together, and use it like I was for the last year.

This is the point i'm at. I'm sure if any one of you guys were close enough to stop by, you'd be able to tell me right away what the cause is. With my very limited experience in this area, and nobody close to have check it out, this is the only way I can know 100% it's not the aussie. Yeah, it's gonna be a PITA and a fair amount of work, but it'll let me drive it again. It's getting to comfy out of the weather in the garage:rolleyes:

thanks for all the input guys. I'll post up a couple measurements I take before I put it back, and make sure to take all measurements woody's says i'll need for the d-shaft. I'll update when I get it back SUA.

thanks again for all the input guys, i'm learning a lot from this:cool2:

UPDATE:

got it back together today, SUA. Turns out it was the d-shaft. Drives just fine now, gave me no problems all day. I'm ordering a new CV shaft tomorrow, then switching the suspension around again for the last time.

What i'll imagine was the cause of the problem is I took measurements before putting it back SUA, and found that the TC yoke was at 0*, but the axle was at about 18*. Must have had a little bit of tilt in it from stock. Obviously, this is WAY off the 4* difference that I was made aware of.

I had something else to add, but I don't remember right now. Figured i'd post the verdict anyway. Thanks for all the advice guys:cool2:

So what your trying to say is, the yokes were binding together because the angle of 18° exceeded the max angle of the ujoint.

If so then you should be able to look on the yokes and see where the ears were touching.


Some people still running the stock front driveshaft after doing a SOA with cut and turn, have needed to clearance the yokes to get them to droop far enough and not bind.

You never discussed the front so you may want to start measuring and checking it.
I realize you are leaving it as SUA in the front, but what is the driveline angle and
if you unbolt the driveshaft from the front diff, how far will drop before it binds?
You will need to rotate it while checking it.

Then if you want to see if it will bind, jack the front and put stands under the frame. Then let the diff droop. Now see if the front drive shaft will connect and rotate without binding.

You may find you need a cv shaft for the front also. or at least one of those high angle offset ujoints.

glad you had the aussie set right.... :smokin:

Bill, I really appreciate all the input. I'll check look closely at the shaft next time I get a chance to crawl under.

As for the front shaft, i'm not too worried about it right now. I've been wheeling on it for 3+ years, and this shouldn't change anything about the front. I will probably have to grind though, but it' works for now. I don't have the time to work on it, until it causes me a problem. I will check that out also next time I get the chance.

thanks guys, i'm off to bed:rolleyes: