Just spent a week at Moab for the Easter Rock run. This was my first week at serious rock crawling.
I had spent only one day rock crawling before I went to Moab.
My wife and I loved it.
We went with about another 17 Jeeps. One guy in our group spent $107,000 in his jeep. Several spent over 60 grand.
I went almost every where they went. Only about 3 climbs that I couldn't make it. Of those three climbs (or crawls) only 3 of the 18 made it. The rest of us were winched up.

What bugged me though, after we were winched up, 4 buggys came by and climbed up like the rocks like it was nothng.

One guy told me he had $5,000 in his rig.

I found out that they made it because of weight. His buggy was under 2,000 lbs and mine was 5,000 lbs.

I ask my Buddies, why would they spend $70,000 for a rig that wouldn't make it up every hill.
Their reasons was, they and their wife liked air condition, nice pretty seats, roll up windows, and they like to use their Jeep as a second car.
The biggest reason was, Most rail cars are not street legal.

After thinking about it for a while, I came up with my needs.
a. I want to have a chance to make make any hill that anyone else can.
b. I will almost always have my wife and dog with me, so I need at least 2 seats.
c. I will never use the rig except rock crawling. The rest of the year, it will set in the barn.
d. I want it street legal if possable. There are times we will go into a trail head at one place and come out at another.

After looking on a lot of web sites and reading rockcrawling Magazines, I like the poison Spider.

My question is, What do you more experence crawlers suggest
Thanks
57Guy


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Yesterday, 09:58 PM #2
tubehead
Granite Guru


Member Number: 13221
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Olive Hill,KY
Posts: 784
Poison Spyder is the name of a company. I would repost this in General.
__________________
www.roarkfabworks

I'd look into the Blue Torch Fab Fusion chassis. BTF does awsome work, and although PSC does too I think that BTF has more of the parts to make the chassis complete already availible for sale which will reduce the amount of custom stuff. That, and Dan and the rest of the crew at BTF are all awesome guys.

If your lookin to spend some bread on a crawler look into Blue Torch Fab Or Frankies Off-Road. They both build some Killer rigs. BTW Poison Spider is the name of the shop.

We run a Twisted Custom Chassis. There are some guys here on the board that have them as trail rigs. You should really consider one of these.

http://twistedcustoms.biz

Here is a Rig and thread.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=562944&highlight=twisted+customs

I think posion spyder has the baddest already built rigs out there, if you can afford one I would say go for it.

On a different angle I would suggest wheeling a jeep before you start with a buggy. You will learn better skills more quickly
________
Bongs (http://glassgallery.tumblr.com/glass-bongs/)

Personally if money really isn't an object, a new crawler is a great thing to have. The fact that this was your first big mission I'd highly suggest buying a used, but legit builder's, rig that has been to the top of the mountain if you know what I mean. There are plenty of people selling things on here that fit your description. Not only will you be saving thousands, but you'll be getting instant gratification because you don't have to wait months for the truck to be built. This will allow you to go wheelin' spend some more time w/ the people of the wheelin' world and truely decide if this activity is really what you want to be involved in. You wrote a well thought out post and can obviously think clearly, which leads me to believe that some of the f-cktards in this business and on the trail might irritate you and make the experience less than pleasant. At that point you won't be in a rig 100k. ;)

As far as where I'd put my money if I was in your shoes/region... Blue torch fab is the name of the game. Nicest people to ever work with.

how about PolyPerformance's Chassis?
That thing is nice, it looks like a cross between a crawler and a T.T. truck with all the dimple dies and sub-frame like lower section.

I believe they have been doing a piece on it in peterson's 4 wheel?

also with the csot of tubing these guys are putting way more than 5 Grand into a buggy. 40" tires will run you upwards of 1500-2000, axles even if home built will set you back another couple grand, not including seats, belts, motor, trans..... the list goes on....

The guys that dump 70K into a jeep are, well, good for the off-road community/shops that do all the wrenching & fab. im trying to think positive here. :D

Have Blue Torch build you their Phantom Chassis but adapt the body mounts a bit a bit so your fenders will cover the tires (an EASY alteration). You could make this crawler legal in many states and trust me, you'll SPANK all of your buddies and even those buggies you saw on the runs as this is hands down one of the best crawlers ever built. You'll have a competition quality rig with a BIG pickup bed and a very "tame" handling. Put a lexan windshield on it and a few other niceties and you'll be LOVING it.

PM me and I'll be glad to tell you more through a phone conversation.

We've built a lot of rigs ourselves and I'll be glad to chat about your needs. If it looks like you need something else, I won't be afraid to say so.

Btf Is The Only Way To Go!

What no Twisted Customs fans? Their trail chassis are perfect for wheeling or comps, driving skills arn't included though.

Have Blue Torch build you their Phantom Chassis

Any more info on this chassis?

What no Twisted Customs fans? Their trail chassis are perfect for wheeling or comps, driving skills arn't included though.


We voted for them. Hands down one of the Best Chassis out there.

Any more info on this chassis?

The Phantom Chassis is the same one as the RockHer II...only you can have it adapted to what your needs are. It comes with a fiberglass pickup body on it and all lighting and everything looks legal. Build it right and get an old junked Chevy S-10...transfer the VIN ;)

Just a side note on the Poison Spider rigs......most of the ones I've seen are HUGE compared to the top performing rigs out there, and weigh pretty damn close to that 5k mark you mentioned. I'm gonna go with the crowd and recommend Blue Torch Fab, and the Phantom in particular. You can get it with any drivetrain, and a wealth of options. If that rig's not your taste I'd take a look towards Twisted Customs. They make clean, proven, high performance rigs. I used their chassis as the main inspiration when I built my own buggy last year.

Dallas

Give Clifton a call at Poison Spider Customs and talk to him about what you want in a rig. He can build what you want.

jeep are for GIRLS
get a toyota :flipoff2:

I bought a used buggy and I couldn't be happier. I'd suggest that you look at the vehicles for sale forum and pick out a nice light buggy. This one just sold but it would have been a great trail rig for a great price. http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=564297 Stuff like that comes up from time to time.

I'll make one more note since you are pretty new to the sport. One thing I've noticed is that hardcore doesn't happen on the trail, it happens in the shop. Anybody can borrow a rig and hit the gas pedal and have a great time. If you want to run any hill then that means you have to be willing to change an axle on the trail, weld things back together on weekends, and basically become a decent mechanic. The guys in the buggys may have been having a great time but I assure you they paid their dues in the shop the weekend before.

x2 on the bruisers being big and heavy (most of the one's ive been in) not saying i would'nt pimp one, but im not dropping 50-100+K on one. I love the twisted customs chassis and you should be able to get it a good bit under 4K lbs. There are tons of company's who build chassis to complete turn key buggies there is also a tread on here with a link to just about all of them.

You cant tell me this thing isnt sexy and im sure it does very well aslo.

http://twistedcustoms.biz/photo.php?table=eGallery_photo&ID=107
http://twistedcustoms.biz/photo.php?table=eGallery_photo&ID=105

101"wb 4 seater. (i think that is what i read on the build thread but i may be wrong)
http://twistedcustoms.biz/photo.php?table=eGallery_photo&ID=101

^^^
i agree...most of the poison syder rigs are full sized and can be a bit on the fat side...which by no means is taking anything away from them...they are bad ass....just rather large...

i agree also...BTF or twisted customs...

Well, not a slam on Blue Torch, but the Fusion Chassis that everyone loves so much is a damn big chassis too. Not as big as the Bruiser, but large.

Large means weight. If you are looking to keep the weight down, talk to them about the Phantom Chassis.

That said, there are tons of good builders out there. My personal favorite turn-key chassis is Twisted Customs, due to the size of it and the looks.

All of the chassis mentioned up there are good... PSC makes nice stuff as does BlueTorch and Twisted Customs... Alot of the dudes up there have bias but I've seen all of these up close and they all have their own style/size/shape etc.... I'd personally look for a used buggy--that's your best turn-key bang for buck.

All of the chassis mentioned up there are good... PSC makes nice stuff as does BlueTorch and Twisted Customs... Alot of the dudes up there have bias but I've seen all of these up close and they all have their own style/size/shape etc.... I'd personally look for a used buggy--that's your best turn-key bang for buck.
x2, you said it was your 2nd? time out in the rocks and you are ready to drop that kinda coin? If new, get an idea on drivetrain, then worry about packaging it IMO.

Also S&N and Shaffers have enot been brought up.

I dig twisted customs work with a shovel.

Well, not a slam on Blue Torch, but the Fusion Chassis that everyone loves so much is a damn big chassis too. Not as big as the Bruiser, but large.

X2..... my buggy looks tiny next to one

Buy used.

I think you should learn how to drive:flipoff2:
Seriously..first real trip out, and you want to go drop 50,000 or more so you can make it up all the climbs?? I guess a pocket full of money can get you there....but maybe you should check your ego and just wheel for a while before you decide exactly what you want.

Buy a used buggy.

I think you should learn how to drive:flipoff2:
Seriously..first real trip out, and you want to go drop 50,000 or more so you can make it up all the climbs?? I guess a pocket full of money can get you there....but maybe you should check your ego and just wheel for a while before you decide exactly what you want.

X2, what he said.
Those ppl that climbed the spots you didn't I bet they could do it in a golf cart,( or your rig) if you let them.It all comes down to the driver.

BTF is the only way to go. I just started a build in January of this year and have been very impressed with the quality and service of the BTF crew and components. Having said that Poison Spyder makes a good chassis and I was looking at the Bruiser 8 but I felt (in my opinion) the customer service was lacking but I will take full responsibilty for that because I never spoke to Clifton himself.

not to change subject, but anyone have some good measurments on the chassis that have been mentioned, ie total width, heigth of the bare chassis, weight of the bare chassis. numbers with everything on it also. I know that last part will have some huge variables but still nice to compare. I have no clue what my buggy will weigh when i get done, but at its widest point its 49.5" to the outside of the tubes, it is setup on the redneck table at ride height with 42's and the tallest portion on the chassis from the ground is ~72", ive still got a long way to go but here is what ive got done in about 7-8 hours with a manual bender.

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q148/irokcrawl/frontrs2.jpg
http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q148/irokcrawl/passrearrs1.jpg

not to change subject, but anyone have some good measurments on the chassis that have been mentioned...

I just pulled a tape on the 4 seater fusion I finished this morning. It's 59" wide at the widest point (same width as a YJ/TJ), ~57" tall from bottom of belly to top of roof, and 155" long, which is two feet shorter than my Honda Civic! :laughing: Not too bad for a family rig. There are some huge Fusions out there, but then, rockwells and 54's will make any rig huge. :flipoff2:

rockwells and 54's will make any rig huge. :flipoff2:


true dat, true dat :flipoff2: BTW evil bastard looks good as a 4 seater now.

I agree with the buying used for your first crawler. Wheel it for a while to get a solid idea of what you like and don't like. Then build one from scratch.

I bought the rig I have used and got it for less than the price of just the parts. It is my first rock crawling vehicle, though I've been into four wheel drives all my life. Now that I've wheeled it a while I have a lot better idea of what I want.

If I had just built what I wanted straight out of the gate it would have cost a lot more and I still wouldn't have gotta what I wanted.

If you want a Spyder Customs buggy, look into the Big Sexy buggy they built. I am not shure who owns it now, but it seems that every other week it is for sale.

Does this really belong in Gen 4x4?
This is a repost from the wanted section.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=574538

The guys only been here a couple of days & has asked the same question twice & obviously hasn't bothered to search.

You guys are slacking!

However, now that it's been here (with all the posts) I'm starting to like the tech.

Does this really belong in Gen 4x4?
This is a repost from the wanted section.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=574538

The guys only been here a couple of days & has asked the same question twice & obviously hasn't bothered to search.

You guys are slacking!

However, now that it's been here (with all the posts) I'm starting to like the tech.


he probably reposted it because an experienced member told him to if you look at the posts under the thread you linked. :grinpimp:

Thats smart. Encourage the newbs to post Gen.

Just found this in the vehicle classifieds section. it's not mine nor do I know the seller.... But the price does not look bad.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=574984

I'm going thru the web looking at the different units.

This site seems to have the most action, but I don't find many custom rigs for sale.
What are the other sites or forums that have custom crawlers for sale?
Thanks Again
Glenn

I believe I was part of that group that came up behind you. We are some pretty low buck, lighter weight rigs. Our group had the stretched OD flatty/buggy thing and the white TJ based buggy. I have been driving my flatty for 14 years. I know the rig and what it's going to do. We weigh in at 3500 lbs and 3700 lbs respectively, which isn't even that light these days. Honestly, your rigs would have easily made it up those obstacles. They are very well equipped. You just need more seat time. The spotting you were working with was pretty questionable as well. That being said, I vote for the BTF chassis. You should contact Clayton as well. They are toying around with soem chassis designs that might suit your desires.

he probably reposted it because an experienced member told him to if you look at the posts under the thread you linked. :grinpimp:

You are right, I am a newbe.
I posted in another section and I got a reply from a member saying , that since I didn;t know what I wanted, I should post in the General.
I tried searching and it is confusing. I get a message saying I'm not authorzed to search. Nothing about paying.
I wrote the admin last week asking why? No reply
I just found out yesterday that I needed to pay 20 bucks, which I gladly did.
Thanks
Glenn

For sale section has a lot for sale.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=573287 is in your area as well. Not a full awn buggy, but damn nice place to start

Is the red one in your photo a twisted Custom?
Glenn