As far as I know no one has completed this yet on a Rover. I have been looking at it for a while and wanted to see what others know about this. From the very little I know the line for Full hydro taps into the power steering pump.

I know if the flow is too great that it turns very qucikly which could present a problem at higher speeds. My rover is not a daily driver, but I want it to be able to drive to close trails (requires minor highway driving). I have heard a flow rate of 5.0 (GPM) is in the ball park. 6.0 is way to reactive for road use.

The box, drag link etc. is all replaced obviously. Already have my d44 set up for a standard 2" x 8" hydraulic ram. Avalanche in town (if I decide to go this route) would do the work, as it is way above my head. I doubt they have ever worked on a rover, so I am seeing what other know. Will the pump handle this? Any thing else to consider as far as strength driving issues?

Here is what a search found:
Cylinder volume= (piston radius^2 x pi^2 x stroke) - (shaft radius^2 x pi x stroke)

Divide this by the amount iof wheel revolutions I want (4 in my case). This gives the measurement for the correct orbital valve for the proper flow rate in the orbital valve.

Several people make centering orbital valves (WMS charlin valve, etc). Although this is no biggy I figure if I have to turn it one way, it is not that big of a deal to turn it the other way.

There are tow types of orbital valves other than differences in flow rate. Some that are load reactive (meaning that they have a bit of a "feel" to them through the steering wheel) and non load reactive that give no feeling through steering wheel. I would want the load reactive so that you have *some* feel as to the rocks off road.

Please do not reply saying don't go this route, it is not safe, etc. Just looking for knowledge here.

Way

Full Hydraulic Steering on the street!!!! Ever drive a fork lift at speed? :eek: :eek: :eek: Don't even try it!

I have heard a lot of comments both ways. Here is the dilema. I wasn't completing a very difficult obstacle when I twisted the splines on my power steering box. I have always felt it to be too weak. I remember having problems with 245/75 tires. Now with 33" tires aired way down, it is an arm struggle to get the vehicle to turn. The replacement rover box is the simplest solution. However, I wonder how long that one will last seeing how the last one broke pretty quickly after the somewhat recent front end change. Not sure if it was weakened substantially with all of the abuse in the past or not. Anyone else break a box yet?

After searching this board there are a few people that have professionally set-up full hydraulic set-ups and say other than the non self centering steering there isn't much of a problem. The only forklift I have operated goes very slow and I have never seen one go fast, so no I haven't driven one at speed. What do you forsee happening...specifically.

I worry with hydraulic assist that the rover components will hold up. Not to mention I am looking at replacing the rover box.

I am heading to Avalanche monday morning to see what they say. On the phone they said other than it not be legal, there should be no problem. I will report back with what they say, they are not sure what the steering system of a rover is like and if it is easily accomplished.

Way

just go scout II PS box and get done with it... wont break, better turning power, and easy to do! :smokin:

dont waste your time with full hydro on 33s :rolleyes:

just get a good, well set up power steering box and a high output pump and you will be much happier.

plus, IMO i still think that all your steering problems would go away if you ran a LOT more backspacing.

I am happy with my backspacing and don't want to change that. I do not think 3.5" backspacing is excessive. I REALLY like the stability now as well.

Regardless of tire size (mine are 33 x 12.50 at typically low beadlock pressures) when the front ARB is turned on it has always been a PITA to turn. Many times I am forced to back up while turning and approach the obsatcle at a different angle in order to take a line that I want. It would be nice to have freedom in any situation of where you want to steer.

Scout II, Saginaw, others. Anyone perform this mod and has it helped out a lot? What all was involved? How Easy is it to do? One banana or two :D

High output pump. Anyone know the pressure of the stock pump. Can the stock one even put out the pressure needed for hydraulic assist or full hydraulic?

Seems like a good topic. Many rover owners have talked about doing hydraulic assist, but I have seen no real discussion of this topic with techinical responses. Are you guys that are contemplating hydraulic assist thinking of using a 1.5", 2", or 2.5" ram. Are you going to cool it somehow? using a filter? Upgrading anything in the steering system? CAT has some good information on data to use in determining what size is needed. I will post a copy in a minute.

Way

Took this off of the jeep Board from a person named AGGRO.

General guidelines to use when determining your cylinder size requirements:
• Cylinder Specifications:
Bore Size
Length of Stroke

• Operating Pressure:
Caterpillar cylinders listed below are designed to working at operating pressures between 27,000 and 35,000 kPa. The operating pressure of a cylinder may vary with application.

• Speed of Operation:
Operating speeds of hydraulic cylinders vary according to the cylinder volume and the gallon-per-minute (gpm) of the hydraulic pump used. If the gpm output of the pump and the dimensions of the cylinder are known, the following formula can be used to determine the operating time (in seconds) for a cylinder to go from fully closed to fully open:

T = 60 X Displacement (U.S. Gal.)
Pump Capacity (gpm)

Closing time is slightly faster because of the cylinder volume occupied by the rod. To ensure minimum maintenance and prevent breakage of parts, never select a cylinder operating at a speed faster than that recommended for the implement or its application.

• Power Requirements:
The following formula will help determine the approximate power requirement (horsepower) for hydraulic applications:

HP = 0.6 X Pump Capacity (gpm) x psi
1000


• Thrust:
Thrust, usually called push or pull, is the force that the cylinder exerts in pounds. Push is the force exerted at the eye of the piston rod when pressure is placed upon the full diameter of the piston. Pull is the force exerted at the rod eye when pressure is directed against the rod side of the piston. Pull is always less than push because of the reduction of cylinder area through presence of the cylinder piston rod. To find the exact push capacity of a cylinder, multiply the square inches of piston face area by the cylinder pressure in pounds per square inch (piston area X psi). To find the exact pull capacity, use the same formula, but deduct the square inches of rod area from the piston face area (piston area minus rod area) X psi.

Push = A X P
Pull = [A – (.785 x d2)] X P
A = Cylinder area in square inches
P = Working pressure of pump in psi
D = Piston rod diameter in inches

Where new and different size cylinders can be safely installed to operate an implement, it is extremely important to provide a good safety factor in designing and fabricating mounting brackets for the new cylinder. Such a safety factor should allow for the hydraulic system's maximum relief pressure, as well as possible surges.


Conversions:

U.S. Gallon X .231 = cubic inches
U.S. Gallon X 3.785 = liters
U.S. Gallon X .833 = Br. Imp. Gallon
gpm X .0631 = liters/second
psi X 6.89 = kPa
Lb/sq. in. X .0703 = kg/cm2
Feet X .3048 = meters
Sq. in. X 6.452 = cm2
Lb. X .4536 = kg
Inches X 2.540 = cm

Good stuff Adam...But, IMO, send your new/used LR box straight to WestTexas Off-Road, and have them tap the box and go with assist...You'll love the feel and you should end up with about 50%+ less load on the sector shaft than you presently do. I was going to go that route until I realized going full hydro on my rig was a better all around option (in my case)...:rasta:

Originally posted by Way
As far as I know no one has completed this yet on a Rover. I have been looking at it for a while and wanted to see what others know about this. From the very little I know the line for Full hydro taps into the power steering pump.


Way

people in the UK have been installing hydraulic rams on series rigs for some years now. i'll try and dig out the info i had on it, but it consisted of a ram bolted in where the damper would go.

it was especially done to the 109" forward control's which were big ol' heavy buses at the best of times.

Jamie

Way,
I have not attempted to change the assist. But I do know that at speed, two things will come into play. Wheel alignment and flow rate.

Don't forget to figure in your current caster and camber angles into the equation for road use. I have know idea what your dana with 3.5 backspacing runs with all of the other mods that you have made (caster). Camber will only effect the "feel" and not the "quickness" of the steering (to an extent).

Here's my point. Too much caster plus too much boost equals a real beast to control. Especially on the roads where you and I live. I would suggest that you get an accurate readout of your current geometry and factor that into your equation. Maybe you have done that, but I didn't hear you mention that in your post. If you don't have the stock settings, or need some references, I can get you that, all be it, not until monday.

johnny

Good stuff guys. Alignement is dead on factory. One goal when doing the D44 stop was to put the alignment back to the stock state. After all of the lift mods, etc. the alignment was pretty bad. Now it is great. I bent a rear link mount worse than normal recently and had my buddy throw it on the alignment machine for a six pack. He says that I need to throw a washer on the back right on the axle side of the bush, and everything will be within spec. He said to make it dead nuts on to throw one on the front drivers side three link as well. Just got to find some big ass washers now. I purchased Dougs box. THANKS Doug. So when I talk to Avalanche I will see if they can tap the new box and I will keep everything else the same.

Way

P.S. I will keep everyone posted on Monday. I will continue to search and check things out. For what I am looking for I think a 2" x 8" will be good for me. I really do not want it too quick (like a 1.5") and I like the idea of running a powerful setup. However I do not know the pressure out of the pump yet, so I am unable to crunch the numbers for the correct size of all components. I doubt I can run as big as a 2.5 with the rover pump. Keep the ideas coming everyone!

I see that you started another thread regarding hydraulic assist, but if you are still considering going full hydro, I can hook you up with any parts that you need.
And I can do a load reactive orbital valve with a balanced(you call double throw) 2.25" bore cylinder with heim joint rod ends for quite a bit less than than the prices that you gave in the other thread. ;-)

If interested in more details regarding prices/specifics of systems I sell, PM me.
If you are just interested in questions regarding hydraulics in general, just post it on the board so that it might answer questions for others. I come check things out over here every once in a while.

Sean

Listen up guy's...Station is the MAN when it comes to doing this sheiat accurately AND without too much doerayme. I'll post some pics of the goodies I received from Station here in a few....

--D