okay looks like out of the blue my axles are sold. for a price that would be too cruel sounding to tell any of you :D

So here I sit pondering 2.5 tons or a 60 and 14 bolt or 70.

I can get 2.5 tons no prob it looks like...2 steering axles or one steering axle or whatever. then I could do f/r hydro steer or just front hydro. My main question is the brakes. this will no longer be a street driver so it doesn't have to be perfect....but I have seen the pinion brake thing and looks cool....is that just a chevy 44 caliper and what disk? what's the normal pinion brake setup that people make? or is there no norm and I should just go nuts and sillyfab it up?

Wheels? make my own? will 15's clear when the drums are gone? I think i can just make my own centers.

so just toss out some ideas people. thanks :D here's a pic to photochop :D

go 2.5's and ask Daniel, he knows all those answers.

Well I'm no expert on 2.5 tons...but my tow rig has a Dana and 14 bolt and I know they are heavy but strong. I'd guess the 2.5 tons are heavier and stronger yet. I don't like the idea of a pinion mounted brake cause it would worry me that I would not have brakes at the wheels if a pinion or axles were to break. I'd guess they would not break on a 2.5 ton anyway. The 14 bolt is rated at 5700lbs so this is already almost 3 tons and I believe the front 60's are like 4500lbs. So I'd have to guess the 2.5 tons are underrated and really would support much more??? I can't imagine needing lower than 5.13 gears so theres no advantage there. Me just because of weight I'd go with a 60 and 14 bolt. I'd guess these are an inch or two narrower on each side also???

Jason :)

Silly my man,

Hard to answer, as I believe the "what axles" quation jumps in half-way, and therefore makes it impossible to gauge properly.

First thing you have to decide is:

Use - as in trail only....already answered

but also...what kind of trails, and whether competition or not.

This is important, as i personally think, for instance, rear steer (which would lead me to Rockwells) is really only a great advantage in competition (making gates) or in really realy tight trails.

Also....you have to add in driving style...do you enjoy the go pedal? Who do you run with and what do they run...which leads to questions of what they run, are commonality of spares important (i.e might you evern need to borow a spare, or scrounge a part - if the answer is yes...then the more common 1 ton stuff might suit you better.

The other important things you have to answer is tire size and motor power. If the answers are 42"+ and big v8 power, then Rockwells might be a better choice, if not.....I can;t see how a HP60 and 14 Bolt aren;t a superb choice, especially given brake issues etc.

And lastly, of course, budget is a concern....the Rockwells will almost undoubtedly be cheaper initially...but potentially cost more to get to work perfectly. If you have a bunch of $$ to throw around...a pair of HP Dynatrac Pro Rock 60's would be a very good choice.

Answer some of these, and you'll begin to get a clearer picture.

well I can go anywhere now that I have a tow rig :D but it's rocks that tickle my fancy. I don't need any of this stuff but it'll make me look like a more serious player in the 4x4 fab business and If I can crab walk around w/ rear steer then I can feel cool :D j/k

it's not a comp rig...I'll build a buggy for that. I just got the axle sale deal of a life time so I might as well play w/ the $$ :D

I'm thinking 44" boggers or tsls. I can make a 60 front not break. I am pretty easy on the go pedal. I just now broke my front 44 for the first time after running 40's for a year and 38 sxs since then :D so I can be easy. I just like the proce of the 2.5 tons...suits the wallet better :D

Well, I am by no means an expert, so for you flamers out there:flipoff2:

I have been considering doing the 2.5 ton axles myself so I have done a good bit of web research, I have only seen them in person under a duce and a half. Not on any trail rigs.

There are quite a few good points and some bad. Good points are

Strong gears and they are 6.72 to 1 so you dont need to hunt low gears.

Strong as hell housing and easy to weld to, you can attach links and brackets all over, you can also clearance (sp) the center part of the housing pretty easy and have Dana 44 type clearnace.

They are top loaders so driveshaft angle and worrying about rock rash on the shaft itself is not a problem.

Detroits are available and can be had at good prices compared to some of the other axles.

You can usually buy a pair of them for less than what a front Dana 60 costs, hell I can get 2 pair for what a 60 costs.

You can have either 69-70 inch wheel mounting width, or 79 to 80 inch wide depending on which way you have the hubs flipped.

Locking hubs are available (they are fawking outragus in price:eek: , something like $500 each least thats what is on Daniels site anyway)

You can do pinion disk brakes after you ditch the HUGE and HEAVY drum wheel brakes

If you have the money and dont mind having to have the wider (79 to 80 inch) wide wheel mounting then you can have 4 wheel disk brakes, its about 1800 bucks 1000 for the front and 800 for the rear.

Axle shafts are like 1.65 inch I think and the front Ujoints are HUGE even compared to the Dana 60 one. This translates to less breakage

Once the drum brakes are removed, the axles dont weigh much more than the 14 bolt or Dana 60.

Parts are readily available and the more people use these, the more the aftermarket will respond with more parts for these axles.



Downside

Did I say these axles were HUGE, the width may be a problem

Top loading is great for driveshafts, but oil pan clearance in the front may be a problem.

If you use a standard rear your driveshaft has to be offset 4" to either side, the chunk itself is centered, but the driveshaft flange is offset, you can go to either side with it.

Locking hubs are EXPENSIVE. So MOST people are not going to have their front axle freewheeling

If you decide to go with Pinion disk brakes, the locking hubs are not an option, as the wheels would be unlocked and the pinion brake stopping the gears and axles from moving would not stop the wheels, so you have to have the front axle enguaged all the time. Like driving with your hubs locked all the time on your current or just sold axles.

There are some other drawbacks, but I have can't think of them right now.

If you make your own stuff and dont mind welding and hacking, especially if your making this a trail only rig, they are a great setup.

If you want I can email you all the links to 2.5 ton articles I have found as well as web site links that have to do with 2.5 ton axles and parts.

Hope this helps out

Depdog:usa:

Thanks Dep! That was good reading. go ahead and shoot me the links if you would :D fiveohjeep@hotmail.com

Its sent, if you would keep my email and let me know what you decide. If you do the Rockwells, take some good pics as I am sure you will do them before I can. I would like your input on any problems you might encounter with them. I have seen some of your other work and it looks great.

Thanks
Depdog:usa:

Why not mog axles?

Squash

Reverse rotation front 60 retubed with CTMs and hy-tuff shafts and an ARB and an eaton rear with corp 14 bolt detroit and shafts.

The eaton is all forged (I think ie definately not cast) and beefy so you can weld all over it and its cheap, plus its got that WTF is that factor that is so cool.

Front 60 be about a grand plus the extras so figure 2500-3000 to get them both done unless you can sniff out some deals. Less if you want to run a standard front 60 and not retube.

Other ideas: nine inch or 60s with Mog outers. C303 portals.

Ron

Right...I hadn;t thought of the business end of it for you.

Considering this.....and the coolio factor...fawk it.....

Rockwells...the only answer for you !!

If you;re gonna build a comp buggy....go the other way...super light with hi tech D44's...Hmm, a lot like that guy...uhhhh...what's his name...at the top of the heap now...you know.....'couple of beefy lads, loud shirts, wheelin' babes for wives....you know who I mean :rasta:

Well I am kinda partial to my rockwells. As far as new wheel centers it's just 6 on 8 3/4 for the bolt pattern. The center hole is 6 1/2 inches in diameter to clear the hub and my outside diameter of the disk was 14 1/4. I choose 2 1/4 inch back spacing cause it fit snug in the wheel that way and cleared the knuckles with ease though you could get away with 3 1/5 inches of back spacing to clear the knuckles. As far as pinion brakes go I like them for trail use only. Have to be careful when stepping on the brake pedal cause it will lock it up in nothing flat. I used chevy 1/2 ton rotor, backing plate (top 1/3 section), and caliper. Pretty easy setup really. I'm not running pinion brakes in the front cause I think in the rear will be fine cause I can't imagine breaking ring and pinions or the helical cut grears or the axle shafts with my 39.5's or later 42 or 44's. I run mine welded front and rear and someday hope to get locking hubs if I can ever get them cheap enough. I also run hydro assist for the turning issues. I shaved mine so the clearance is really nice compared with a 60 and you don't loose strength like you would with a severely shaved 60. I think I have as good fo clearnace with my rockwells as my friend does with his 44. It's easy to run the tie rod behind the housing, just flip the knuckles and if you want high steer just get a chunk of metal and bolt it on the passenger side knuckle. Anyway if it's trail only I'd strongly recommend it, but I'm poor so they fit the equation in all circumstances. Hope that helps.
erik

thanks again everyone...killer info! I'm feelin' the 2.5 tons right now.....but how much are a set of mogs going for? I'd definately run them but they seem kinda spendy. hook me up w/ some $$$ figures and places to get them in the states quickly. I'm kinda hoping to be up by 4th of july if I don't get too swamped w/ customers.

Silly, save your cash and just put the CTM's and warns in the 44!
I just cant see changing everything since you just broke the 44 for
the first time. I remember your story awhile ago about how things
have got out of hand and you missed driving your rig around. I
felt the same way. Keep it simple and DRIVABLE!

Originally posted by rockhog
Silly, save your cash and just put the CTM's and warns in the 44!
I just cant see changing everything since you just broke the 44 for
the first time. I remember your story awhile ago about how things
have got out of hand and you missed driving your rig around. I
felt the same way. Keep it simple and DRIVABLE!

no no! it's not cause I didn't want to keep the 44 and 9....it's just that some guy is giving me WAY more money that I deserve for them :D (hell they weren't even for sale) they are bolt in for his junk and he has the $$$$...I was going to redo the whole suspension anyways so why not go big dawg while I'm at it :D

Seriously i can do 2.5 tons and 44's for what i sold my axles for :D I'll just keep my 38.5's for the buggy I'm getting ready to build :D

Originally posted by Sillyneck


no no! it's not cause I didn't want to keep the 44 and 9....it's just that some guy is giving me WAY more money that I deserve for them :D (hell they weren't even for sale) they are bolt in for his junk and he has the $$$$...I was going to redo the whole suspension anyways so why not go big dawg while I'm at it :D

Seriously i can do 2.5 tons and 44's for what i sold my axles for :D I'll just keep my 38.5's for the buggy I'm getting ready to build :D

go MOG.

www.coldwarremarketing.com always has em for sale.

and as far as the buggy goes, i say keep it at about 90", single seat, light as fawking possible, with a sammy motor, trans, dual toys, and 4 wheel steering shaved dana 44s on some 37s :smokin:

Originally posted by Sillyneck


some guy is giving me WAY more money that I deserve for them :D (hell they weren't even for sale)

does he want to buy anything else:flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Hey silly, you have already heard all the strong arguments to go with Rockwells. From someone who has them, and knows what it takes to fit them in, i say GO FOR IT!! I will not preach about the advantages and so forth, ECF and DepDog already did that, but trust me, just buy them. Then start to figure out what you need, and how to fit them under your rig. I'm sure you will be able to "sillyfab" anything you need. And if you have any ??'s there are several of us here who have Rockwells, and will be able to anwser your questions. If you don't know where to look for something, just put up a post. You honestly will not have to make as much stuff as you think you do, unless you want to save the $$. In summary, they are more work than a 60-14bolt, but they are cheaper, and better, IMO.

P.S. don't buy wheels from Stockton, they suck...

why dont yah go all out and go 5 tons. i dont know if its even viable, but to me the benifits of a 2.5 ton over a set of 1 ton axles dont seem worth it. like you said for the wow factor in advertising your business the bigger axles sound more impressive but 5 tons would be even more impressive, as would somthing diff like mog or volvo axles. alot of jeeps already have 2.5 tons. it also seems by the time you make them work as well as a 1 tons would you spent as much money. its also alot quicker to just slap the 1 tons in there. its also easier to replace 1 ton parts. i have 1 tons in my jeep now, and was considering the 2.5s for my next project till i ran across a set of ford 1 tons for $385 bucks. that pretty much made up my mind, cause i wont find 2.5s for that much.

I think you should go with Dana 30 front and a 35c rea. all narrow with open diffs. I hear3.73s do really well! Then you'll be different and have put your wheelin skills to the test.:flipoff2:

Silly i say definatly go 2.5 ton. with 4 wheel sterring, or did you think about getting 2 front 60's, using one for the front and center the other for the rear and have four wheel sterring that way. But the more bad ass you go the more people will like your work and the more bussiness you will get. So i say go all out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:beer:

Originally posted by Sillyneck
okay looks like out of the blue my axles are sold. for a price that would be too cruel sounding to tell any of you :D

So here I sit pondering 2.5 tons or a 60 and 14 bolt or 70.

I can get 2.5 tons no prob it looks like...2 steering axles or one steering axle or whatever. then I could do f/r hydro steer or just front hydro. My main question is the brakes. this will no longer be a street driver so it doesn't have to be perfect....but I have seen the pinion brake thing and looks cool....is that just a chevy 44 caliper and what disk? what's the normal pinion brake setup that people make? or is there no norm and I should just go nuts and sillyfab it up?

Wheels? make my own? will 15's clear when the drums are gone? I think i can just make my own centers.

so just toss out some ideas people. thanks :D here's a pic to photochop :D :rainbow: :rainbow:

The Mogs are $2500 or the pair.. and I cant see why not to just go with them, the ground clearence woudl be KILLER!! They even come with lockers!! Down side is they do have drum breaks, but heck, i am sure you could silly fab up something. But then, what do I know, I have a fullsize, with dinky half ton axles...

yea mogs are looking cool...how sucky are the drums? who's converted them? or should I just ditch them and run pinion brakes on them too :D SILLYFAB :D

I know I am just a newbie, and I hate to barge in on your post, But what about hummer diffs and outers and just fab some sort of tube and have some shafts made? Anyone tried this? I was looking at some in my favorite yard, but I don't have the skills to try it yet.

Originally posted by cjjeepin
I know I am just a newbie, and I hate to barge in on your post, But what about hummer diffs and outers and just fab some sort of tube and have some shafts made? Anyone tried this? I was looking at some in my favorite yard, but I don't have the skills to try it yet.

It works in theory, but too expensive/impractical. I worked on a bunch of custom housing designs, and couldn't come up with anything to beat the shaved HP60(unless you have really deep pockets).

http://www.sierrarockcrawlers.com/data/srcforumuploads/DSC00664.JPG :D

Here's the rest of the thread (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=57126)
I'm biased, but 'Mogs get my vote. Parts availability probably won't be any worse, or better, than for a Rockwell. No one on the trail is likely to have spares, and you can't exactly run down to the local NAPA for parts either. 'Mog parts are fairly available and reasonably priced in this country, you just have to know where to look. If this is a major concern, go 1 ton.

Like BillaVista said, I'd let my driving style be the determining factor. If you're into "Chris Durham-esque" bouts of insanity on the go pedal, and see a big block in your future, Rockwells or beefed 60s/70s/14 bolts would be the way to go, IMHO. If you're more of a "finesse" driver, and you'd rather crawl up/over/around stuff without spinning a tire, then I'd say go 'Mogs. I fall into the latter category, which is why I went with them. I'll have around 19" of clearance under the pumpkin on 42s, 4 wheel steering, and 7.56:1 from the diffs when I'm done...Works for me.

I just shot you a question about the disks over at the other post. I am a finesse driver for the most part....but I'd just hang onto the 38's if I got those axles.

Mog Portals would be SWEEEET on your rig.

Check on ebay and do a search for them on the rest of the web.
Let me see if I can dig up the link I ran across a while back.

Heres that link I ran across a while back.

You have probably already checked it out though:D

http://www.umog.com/UNIMOGAXLES.htm

Oh yah a friend of Nailhead/Ryan picked up a whole rolling chassis in Canada for a good price I will see if I can find out how much and where it was.

Came with wheels tires axles tcase and tranny.

The guy is going to put one of them Isuzu cab over truck cabs on it :D

Originally posted by 9-Volt


go MOG.

www.coldwarremarketing.com always has em for sale.

SNIP.....

Remember 404 Mog axles are said to overheat at sustainted hwy speeds. They are not designed for american speed limits.

it's off-road only :D