Newbie here when it comes to full hydro steering. Would like to hear from those that have it, and how they are liking it.

I'd also be interested in a full parts list needed to do it. I live in a farming area and I'm a farmer, I'm sure if I could get a list I'd be able to find this stuff pretty darned cheap!

I'm currently taking my '67 F100 2wd (converted to 4x4), and beefing it up where I didn't beef it up the first time I built it. I just replaced my NP208 with a 205, replacing my front LP44 as soon as I can find a dana 60 locally. I'm also going to truggy out the truck, so if you have a truggy lets see some pics for ideas! :D

Thanks fellas :flipoff2:

For those that don't know my truck. Here it is.

When I bought it.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y74/ramboss429/1967%20Ford%20Build/before.bmp

My wheelbase is sitting around 115" at the moment, and I'm planning on moving my rear axle forward 5 1/2" so I don't have to remake my rear d-shaft again.

Currently
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y74/ramboss429/1967%20Ford%20Build/Truckpainted004.jpg

full hydro if its for trail only hydro assist if you plan on driving it on the road i was in a ranger on 60's 40" TSL full hydro driving from the end of fourdyce back to the trailer going 60mph and it was very scary drifts like crazy

White Rhino - Truck is going to be trail only when I get it completed. It might see some very short distances on some gravel roads and speed will be kept to a minimum.

I really don't want the hassle in doing a power steering conversion in my pickup, right now its armstrong steering. Once the truck rolls out of my shop its done driving on roads. So, full hydro here I come!

I used a valve from a forklift and ordered my cylinder from Surplus Center.com, used a saginaw pump modded with instructions from west texas offroad. Parts store made the hydro hoses for me.

A couple of the guys I wheel with like steering valves from Massey combines, and its possible to use the ram from the combine, but I feel they are a bit on the whimpy side.

wyldstallyn73 - do you have any pictures of your setup? How much did the valve from the forklift cost you? About how much total do you have into your setup? Thanks

Sorry, no pics. I am a bit of a scavenger, so my total system cost was mostly for the hydro lines and cylinder. If I remember right, I paid $20 for the forklift valve.

There is a pretty good write up in the tech section here with parts list and all that is needed to do a system correctly. Just stay away from the KRC pump that Billavista recomends. I purchased one after finding it was the best price, and seeing it recomended in the article. Found out later that the cast iron one is prone to several problems. Mine did nothing more than idle in the driveway before it blew its relief valve to pieces.

Later,
Jason

Wicked S10 - Thanks for the heads up. The hydro steer is on the backburner at the moment. Working on some other things now, I'm like wyldstallyn a scavenger. I'm looking for some good deals right now. I'm upgrading to a 60front here as soon as I find one reasonably priced. Also re-doing all my suspension at the moment.

Hey, I know all about scavenging! My SCU's all came from fork trucks at a heavy equipment boneyard, for free. The ram on my buggy is a 2x8 tractor supply company ram. The hoses and the KRC kit was all that cost me a significant amount of money, and the main reason I bought the KRC stuff, was because it was very reasonably priced, came with a reservoir and serpentine pulley that I needed. I only wish I had ponied up the extra $100 for their aluminum pump, as it supposedly has none of the problems that the cast iron pump has.

My point behind mentioning the tech section write up, is you asked for a complete list, and whether you get the stuff off a combine, or buy it all new, the article will still give you a good idea of what you are looking for. And BTW, combines are a very good source for the stuff. I found everything, including ram's on a john deer combine at a local scrap metal yard, but they wouldn't let me come and pull all the crap off :(

Good luck,
Jason

I gotta run to the local case dealer tomorrow to pick up some parts for my seeder, so I'm gonna talk to the boys there and see if they have any of that crap laying around that they don't need/want anymore.

What years did Ford make the saginsaw pumps, I need to pick one of those up as well.

Do you have any pics of your setup Wicked? I'm all about pictures, I've built alot of stuff on my rig by looking at pictures on this site and a few others. I'm sure I have a ram laying around that will work as well.

I'm hoping to get it thrown back together by this weekend so I can at least drive it (2wd) up to my other shop where my welder an stuff is, its a pain in the ass moving my shit between 2 shops.

rammer, you can bolt a sag pump to the ford bracket, as i'm switching to a sag pump and hydro assist sometime soon and we had a parts truck (an 81) with a sag pump and i got to looking an it used the same brackets as the pos ford pumps use just maybe a coupple different holes where the pump bolts to the bracket, if you look up my name on supermotors.net i think i got the pictures of the pump uploaded.

rammer, you can bolt a sag pump to the ford bracket

Thats what I'm using with my hydro-assist. My only commet on full hydro is it takes a little bit of adjusting to the "lack of feel" if that makes any sense. Hell, I thought it was bizare turning my 44's lock to lock with one finger :mr-t:

Well its not a ford...but it is a truggy!!!

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=454424

For steering valves I bought a char-lynn 9.7 gpm one new from surplus center!!!It is about than four turns lock to lock with a 10 inch ram on the rockwell.

Here..(I paid like $325 but that was a few years back.)
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2007052311361945&item=9-1882&catname=hydraulic

Pro - I know exactly what you mean on the lack of feel. I drive 4 wheel drive tractors an combines on a daily basis. Its very nice not feeling anything...hehehe

Rock Ape - That is a very nice rig you built there! I might have to steal some ideas for my buildup.

i have basiclly the same truck but on rockwells and link suspension. I used a saginaw pump and a 9.6 gpm valve. It works really well i love turning 42's with one finger, it'll move the truck sideways if i put the tire against a rock and turn:smokin:

Quick question on flow, how much flow is needed to push an 8x1.5 ram for hydro assit (and being able to turn really really quick), and how much flow does a stock sag put out, and how much can it be made to put out?

Diddo on the farm implement thing, they have very little feel, some worn ones wander side to side like a $2 crack hore, and others are nice and tight like what a nice high school school girl should be that hasn't dated the football team :)

Quick question on flow, how much flow is needed to push an 8x1.5 ram for hydro assit (and being able to turn really really quick), and how much flow does a stock sag put out, and how much can it be made to put out?

Not sure what the numbers are specifically, all I can say is that I have a stock sag pump and an 8x1.5 and it turns lock to lock very quick. I haven't done any mods to my pump, but there are several sag mods possible if feel you need more output. I forget who outlines them, might be redneck ram. I'm sure you'd find the link if you looked around...

Whats wrong wtih $2 crack whores?>>???

I only wish I had ponied up the extra $100 for their aluminum pump, as it supposedly has none of the problems that the cast iron pump has.


Whats the story on the KRC cast pump??

Some Updates:

Home Brew Shackle Flip

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y74/ramboss429/1967%20Ford%20Build/029.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y74/ramboss429/1967%20Ford%20Build/030.jpg

I was having some difficulties with my Mig and my argon, so I switched over to the stick to finish them up.

New front leaf spring hangers, not totally finished yet, just roughed up.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y74/ramboss429/1967%20Ford%20Build/032.jpg

NP205 under the truck - still need to make up a new crossmember.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y74/ramboss429/1967%20Ford%20Build/031.jpg

rammer, you can bolt a sag pump to the ford bracket, as i'm switching to a sag pump and hydro assist sometime soon and we had a parts truck (an 81) with a sag pump and i got to looking an it used the same brackets as the pos ford pumps use just maybe a coupple different holes where the pump bolts to the bracket, if you look up my name on supermotors.net i think i got the pictures of the pump uploaded.

I may be way off base here, but I think you might be wrong. I know that Ford used a saginaw pump and bracket in certain van applications, and it is sought after by many folks on here. Cardone also offers a bolt in replacement saginaw pump that fits the ford pump brackets. My '89 460's bracket was not even close to workable with the saginaw mounting pattern of the KRC pump. The bolt locations on the pump all fell inside the large diameter hole for the ford pump. I had to tig a chunk of aluminum into the bracket, mill the back to the proper depth for belt alignment, and drill the saginaw mounting pattern. Anyhow, it may be different for SB's, but that was my first hand experience, and a bit of hear-say as well :)

What years did Ford make the saginsaw pumps, I need to pick one of those up as well.

Do you have any pics of your setup Wicked? I'm all about pictures, I've built alot of stuff on my rig by looking at pictures on this site and a few others. I'm sure I have a ram laying around that will work as well.

Sorry, I did not see this until just now, Ford never built a saginaw pump, saginaw pumps come from, if I am not mistaken, Delphi steering gear, in saginaw, michigan, about 30 miles from my house. As for pictures, I went back through all of the pictures of my buggy, and I do not have any pictures specifically of the steering setup. I am working about 80 hours a week right now, but when I get time, I can take some pics for you. PM me if you don't see anything w/i a few weeks from me. Here are some pics of the SCU's I picked up though. I never did identify them, but from my understanding, the most important thing to look out for is that you do not get a valve with a 5th "power beyond" port, as most folks have trouble making them work. The displacement of the valve is important in tuning your system (basically displacement determines number of turns to lock with a certain volume cylinder). I never did find out what mine were, and went w/ the trial and error route, but you can do a "pail and scale" and determine what the valve displaces by hooking up a temporary reservoir to the inlet, turning one full revolution, and measuring the volume of fluid you get out of the steering port. Anyhow, here are the pics:

http://www.rollmeover.com/jeepboard/chassis/low_valves001.jpg

http://www.rollmeover.com/jeepboard/chassis/low_valves002.jpg

http://www.rollmeover.com/jeepboard/chassis/low_valves003.jpg

Whats the story on the KRC cast pump??

Here is the link to the original thread about the POS, clicky (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=506361), but long story short, the cast iron pump has a relief valve assembly that is simply pressed together, if the pump pops its relief, the spool it is housed in will come apart with it, and cause all sorts of pressure and cavitation problems. The aluminum pumps use a different style spool that is threaded together. KRC claims the valves only come apart if the pump is over reved, however, mine has done it since it idled in the driveway when I first got it together. I tig welded mine back together, but the relief is now stuck closed, presumably from weld current arcing through it, so I have no pressure relief. New valves are dirt cheap though from KRC, and I am going to order one, and try one of the Loctite adhesives designed for epoxying bearing sleeves in bores. Off hand, I forget the Loctite number.

Later,
Jason

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/519390/fullsize/dscf0878.jpg

Thats the pump setup i'm using, yes ford never did make these, but they used them in lots of vehicles, we have about 4 vehicles (2buses/vans, 1 car and 1 truck), anyway as far as what i could tell from holding the stock pump i pulled off to the sag, the brackets were identicals far as mounting to the motor, where the pump was in relation to the non-sag, i'm using the same belts and even the pulley's were the same. In terms of the mounting to the pump i couldn't really tell for sure but they seem to pretty dang close.

that looks like a cardone conversion pump to me
look at the adapter ring

Well, that might explain it somewhat. My stock pump was the Ford CII found on most of the later model engines. The pump looks like this: http://www.fordpowerproducts.com/images/products/powersteering.jpg

and it is a serious POS, if memory serves it is about 700PSI and significantly lower flow than a stock saginaw pump. Anyhow, you can see from the picture that the bolt circle is much larger than saginaw, also the whole finned front section protrudes through the bracket, making the center hole much larger. My bracket looks far different from the older V-belt bracket.

Later,
Jason

yeah thats the diifference there, as they changed the front acessory mounts in the 80's (more or less has to do with the sepertine setups coming alone) and theres even a difference in the CII judging from that picture as the old pump off my truck which i believe is the CII (unless there is model in between the pumps with the steel resvior and when they switched to theplastic CII types), but none theless i did look at the other sags on our other fords and they were all the same as that one iposted above, so who knows.

ford used the same mounting pattern on the power steering pumps for a loooong time
a pump that bolts to my old 79 351m will bolt to the aluminum serpintine brackets

ahh, yeah i'll take a better look friday night when i head back south for a mud bog and i can confirm it for sure, might even be able to snap a picture or two if i have time after a getting home at 10pm and thrashing to finishin putting the truck together for the bog the next day.