alright , I really want to go diesel.. the catch is I want to have it be as simple as possible... I decided that I would go with the vw kit from roadless.. has anyone had any experience with this? also what can I do about an engine.. will any VW work or will only specific ones work?

thanks!:D :D :D

If you really want your installation as simple as possible, go with the non-turbo motor. Unfortunately, that will limit you to a 1.6L unless you can find a 1.9L from across the border.


I haven't heard anything one way or the other about the roadless kit - you should ask them for referrals. :)

Do you drive on the highway? I see you have the 4.16 t-case - with the lower hi-range that comes with, the diesel won't be happy as a commuter/daily driver. I have a Keltec kit in mine, but I didn't see motor mounts in the Roadless Kit, nor are the starter mount points on the adapter plate - maybe it uses the stock Samurai starter. As for using a turbo motor or not, I suspect off-road you can do just fine without the turbo. My 1.9td has great off-idle torque way before the turbo kicks in. I suspect the 1.6 is very close, and with the low range gears you have you will be pretty happy off-road.

The main thing to keep your eye out for in the VW's is a north/south engine. This is the engine that runs perpindicular to the firewall (same as the Sammy).

Most VWs are going to have the east/west engine that runs parallel to the firewall. This won't work in a Samurai swap.

Watch your gearing too as was said before. With stock gears and a 4.16 case, we run easy down the highway at about 70mph. If I had 6th gear, we could do even better. I like to keep the RPM's down though. Offroad it is a monster! Idle over everything.

Originally posted by Rocky Road
Most VWs are going to have the east/west engine that runs parallel to the firewall. This won't work in a Samurai swap.


Ah damn, I guess this means I'll have to take this east/west rabbit engine out of my sami...and it fits so well too, turbo and all. hmmm...:D :D

Originally posted by ppillard


Ah damn, I guess this means I'll have to take this east/west rabbit engine out of my sami...and it fits so well too, turbo on all. hmmm...:D :D

I was wondering about the validity of that claim as well. If you had to stick to north/south vw diesels, you'd be limited to dasher and quantum diesels, which would be pretty hard to find. Not to mention, that would mean no 1.9TD. :D

Well, I know I sounded like a real smart-ass earlier ;), but I think Glen was referring specifically to the Keltec swap kit, which utilizes the stock sami frame motor mounts. This causes the engine to sit much higher than it really needs to, making hood clearance a precious commodity (and raising the COG).

I fabbed my own mounts and adapter and didn't have this problem.

10-4.

I was referring to the Keltec system that uses only north/south engine blocks.

It would be interesting to check out an east/west in a Samurai. Can't quite picture how the tranny would hook up, but I haven't had my hands on an East/West out of a Rabbit either.

I used to have a diesel rabbit in college. Ultimate cheapskate-mobile. I got over 60mpg on the thing. We could take out of state roadtrips in the thing without having to touch the fuel tank.

Glen,

I know you got your VW right off the pallat, but what car was it originally designed for? The jetta? What all VW's sported a 1.9L TD?

You can't get the 1.9 TD here in the States (VW never sold them here in anything), you have to get them from Canada...

Just curious.

Originally posted by Rocky Road
Can't quite picture how the tranny would hook up, but I haven't had my hands on an East/West out of a Rabbit either.

The tranny hooks up identically to the North/South config. In fact, it's the same block. The only diff between the two is how the turbo is mounted. The North/South turbo sits more the side, making the whole assembly a bit shorter, whereas the E/W is slightly (very slightly) above the engine.

Originally posted by ppillard


The tranny hooks up identically to the North/South config. In fact, it's the same block. The only diff between the two is how the turbo is mounted. The North/South turbo sits more the side, making the whole assembly a bit shorter, whereas the E/W is slightly (very slightly) above the engine.

PICS?!!! how did you solve the motor mouting issues? when I look at an east west FWD car the motor mounts are at either end of the block.. not on either side/.... talk to me .. and show me the pic action.. I can get 1.6 TD vw Trucks all day here in oregon.. but I dont want to go through the trouble if it wont work.. oh yeah , and I am not afraid of fabbin somethin up.. I just hate to be the only one

Originally posted by Erik Dossett
Do you drive on the highway? I see you have the 4.16 t-case - with the lower hi-range that comes with, the diesel won't be happy as a commuter/daily driver. I have a Keltec kit in mine, but I didn't see motor mounts in the Roadless Kit, nor are the starter mount points on the adapter plate - maybe it uses the stock Samurai starter. As for using a turbo motor or not, I suspect off-road you can do just fine without the turbo. My 1.9td has great off-idle torque way before the turbo kicks in. I suspect the 1.6 is very close, and with the low range gears you have you will be pretty happy off-road.

How do you like dem Terrra tires .. what t-case are you running with the 1.9?I only live about 1.5 mi from where I work. and the longest run to a trailhead around these parts is about 2.5 hours .. most trailheads are .5hr away... is it still a bad idear?

PICS?!!! how did you solve the motor mouting issues? when I look at an east west FWD car the motor mounts are at either end of the block.. not on either side.... talk to me

OK, below are some pics. I don't have any pics of my motor mounts, but I'll probably take some tonight for you. I fabbed all my own motor mounts including the ones on the frame. This allows me to mount the motor where I want. Don't use the stock location of the original VW motor mounts (on the engine, where you noted they were on either end of the block). The 1.6 and 1.9L VW diesels were designed to go into a multitude of applications; cars, trucks, tractors, generators, pumps, etc, etc.), all with varying motor mounts. If you inspect the lower sides of the blocks, you'll find a buttload of tapped bolt holes, all perfectly flush with each other. You can just build you a motor mount to fit these holes. It worked perfectly for me.

http://www.boomspeed.com/ppillard/sideshot.jpg

http://www.boomspeed.com/ppillard/overall.jpg

http://www.boomspeed.com/ppillard/lowengine.jpg

And, yes, I have plenty of room between my diff and the oilpan. I tested the flex and there's good clearance even when the axle is maxed out against the frame.

http://www.boomspeed.com/ppillard/intercool.jpg

http://www.boomspeed.com/ppillard/fenderwells.jpg

http://www.boomspeed.com/ppillard/engtofirewall.jpg

... and show me the pic action.. I can get 1.6 TD vw Trucks all day here in oregon.. but I dont want to go through the trouble if it wont work.. oh yeah , and I am not afraid of fabbin somethin up.. I just hate to be the only one

You ain't the only one. I wish I could get them all day here (they're super rare in my neck of the woods). If you can spring for it, I'd highly recommend a turbo. Turbo's and diesels go together like peanut butter and jelly.

I am running the stock t-case, stock gears, with 31x10.5 on the highway. At a 3000 rpm and change @60mph, it is geared too low on the highway for the diesel. Offroad, it idles over everything. I don't have rocks, but I think it would be better to have a lower low-range for that type of wheeling. Pillard with his toy tranny will have more options there than I currently have. If you had a 4:16 or lower sammy t-case you would need some serious big tires to compensate for the low high range to go down the road at a more comfy rpm.
Terra Tires - I love 'em off road. They seriously hook up in dirt, mud, gravel, brush, etc. They kinda of suck on-road, tho' I can run the psi up to 30 and run on just the center tread and they roll pretty good. I just don't think they'd last long that way. I plan on trailering the tires to more distant sites, swapping there with my cordless 12v Snap-On impact gun (takes less time than airing down and up again!). If you do mud and deep snow, they are great. I would love to try them back-to-back with a similar size set of Boggers, tho'. Boggeres seem civilized on the road compared to these Terras, and might work as well off road too. Keep in mind I have bead - screwed the Terras, and can and do run zero psi.
http://home.gci.net/~ddesigns/zuki

Ok more Diesel questions then.. 3K and some changes is too much for a diesel to sustain on road?

What purpose does a Intercooler serve? does it cool the air comprssed air coming from the turbo? or does it cool the air being sucked into the turbo.. does it do anything?...


I would plan on running 31s for right now and maybe stepping up to something taller when I swap to 'yota axels in a few years.. given my current gearing.. is this going to even be drivable? ..


pardon the novel of questions.. I just figger there are like 50-100 people that have gone sami diesel and I would like to make as few mistakes as possible.


Thanks for all the help and suggestions!!:D

It is driveable (see previous post)
It is not efficient at 3000, can live higher, would work better lower.
Intercooler cools the compressed air before it goes into the engine (take x air, compress it into 1/4 the space, it will be 4 times as hot. Same heat energy, in less space, has to be hotter).
At about 6 psi you get a dimished return on compressed air for the engine - you can stuff it in without an intercooler, but it gives a better return in horsepower if you cool it down.
I would be surprised to find there are even 50 diesel Zuks.

To add to what Erik has said:

The intercooler mounts between the turbo and the intake manifold. It cools the compressed air that is being rammed into the cylinders. Cooling the air increases it's density, meaning more oxygen is available for combustion. This causes a bigger explosion in the piston chamber, yeilding you more power and more effeciency. An intercooler on a 1.6 TD provides you with about 30-40% more power and fuel economy, without hampering any reliability...a must have:D .

Out of lurk mode:

You can't get the 1.9 TD here in the States (VW never sold them here in anything), you have to get them from Canada...

Yea, yea...:rolleyes: this newbie calls BS:flipoff2:

The 1.9 TDI was/is available on 1998+ golf, jetta, jetta wagon and the new beetle.

An excellent FAQ and other cool info about these engines can be found here:
Fred's TDI Page. TDIClub.com. VW TDI Enthusiast Community For TDI (Turbo Direct Injection) Diesel Engines (http://www.tdiclub.com/)

OK I got a small prob
I am doing the 1.6td swap in my sammie but what intercooler can I get to puit on it and how much will it cost me.
Is there any other intercooler that I can put on from another stock car that would work
Thanx Chubby

The 1.9 TDI was/is available on 1998+ golf, jetta, jetta wagon and the new beetle.

No, the newbie is right. We aren't discussing the TDI (the direct in jection diesel), which is a different engine all together. We're talkin' about the older TD (indirect injection). The 1.9 TD was never sold in the states for anything.

When you come out of 'lurk' mode, find a better reason other than to hassle a newbie over something you don't know anything about. We're lookin' for useful data here, not flaming.

Originally posted by Chubby1
OK I got a small prob
I am doing the 1.6td swap in my sammie but what intercooler can I get to puit on it and how much will it cost me.
Is there any other intercooler that I can put on from another stock car that would work
Thanx Chubby

No prob at all. Hit ebay. That one I have in the pic above is out of a mitsubishi eclipse. I paid $40 for it. Just try to find one that has close to the same diameter ports as the ports on your turbo and intake manifold. I picked the one I have as it has nice fat ports, good flow, and it's small and a good fit in the engine compartment.

My bro and I picked up a GTI 1.6 16 valve and a turbo we want to adapt to his zuk.. Do the adapters work with this setup? I think *rotozuk* had a 1.8 in his zuk... The GTI 1.6 is a sweet motor in the VW's.. ought to be sweet in a zuk :rasta:

Hrmmm, Im curious... I know a small bit about the VW's... If my particular fox can use a Diesel tranny (Gas engine) then one should think the VW's gas and diesel engines share the same bolt pattern... Any one know for sure... Around here you can pick up VW's so cheap... I would think one of the 1.8 liter Fuel Injected Gas engines would also be a sweet and fairly inexpensive swap... Id love to think of the diesel, but when you can get whole VW's with a Gas 1.8 for under $500 lots of times, why not? Any ideas, comments? Anyone running a Gas VW engine?

Hrmmm, Im curious... I know a small bit about the VW's... If my particular fox can use a Diesel tranny (Gas engine) then one should think the VW's gas and diesel engines share the same bolt pattern... Any one know for sure...

Well, I did several weeks worth of searching on the VW diesel boards and the internet in general, and it looks as tho VW never made a rear-wheel drive, non-transaxle, tranny that bolts to a diesel. The vanagon sports a rear-wheel drive system, but the engine is mounted traverse in the rear to a transaxle, soooo.....

I believe the diesel blocks are different from most of the gassers (at least the ones with the rear wheel drive tranny), but you're welcome to try. I think Doug Kelsey (the originator of the swap kit), came to the same conclusion. Good luck.

Originally posted by ShadowZuk
My bro and I picked up a GTI 1.6 16 valve and a turbo we want to adapt to his zuk.. Do the adapters work with this setup? I think *rotozuk* had a 1.8 in his zuk... The GTI 1.6 is a sweet motor in the VW's.. ought to be sweet in a zuk :rasta:

FYI, depending on what year it is, the GTi 16valve motors are either 1.8 or 2.0 liters...:D

They tend to be lacking on bottom end torque, and cam sets are expensive, so I hope he has the gearing to make up for it!! :eek:

No, the newbie is right. We aren't discussing the TDI (the direct in jection diesel), which is a different engine all together. We're talkin' about the older TD (indirect injection). The 1.9 TD was never sold in the states for anything.

When you come out of 'lurk' mode, find a better reason other than to hassle a newbie over something you don't know anything about. We're lookin' for useful data here, not flaming.
True, true....
SMACKdown for me... :D
But, i wasn't trying to "hassle" or "flame" sorry if anyone took it that way... Last time i checked this:flipoff: was a flame and this:flipoff2: was just flipping some one shite.
I was only trying to point out that TECNICALLY there has been a 1.9 turbo diesel available in NA since 98, it just happens to be direct injected. They may not be cheap, but they are starting to show up in the bone yards and i bet a resourceful individual could find one for a bargain.

However, didn't/doesn't Petroworks have a source for the industrial application 1.9td's??? Again, probably not the cheapest option but a vaiable one.

At any rate, the 1.9tdi is an excellent motor. My girlfriend has a 98 new beetle with the 1.9tdi, it boogies and would be killer in a zuk.

I considered the TDI. At the time, I couldn't find one for less than 3 grand - they may be cheaper now. AND it would be a more complex swap, on the order of a gas fuel injection system with the computers and all the assorted sensors, and maybe even the cat to get it running right. I do believe we had a 1.9 NA for a bit there as well, I found one Alaska anyway, just didn't see the point of the conversion. I think for the rock guys the TDI would be a great swap (150 foot pounds at 1900 rpm) as since as you don't have deep water submersion issues(or less of 'em, right?). I paid quite a bit at International Parts for my 1.9td - if I was doing it again I would probably just do the 1.6 td, save some big bucks and turn up the boost if I thought I needed it.

Originally posted by StomperZUK
At any rate, the 1.9tdi is an excellent motor. My girlfriend has a 98 new beetle with the 1.9tdi, it boogies and would be killer in a zuk.

I'll agree with that. But any direct injection diesel requires a ton o' electronics and computers and whatnaught to work properly. That all points to major headaches for a swap, not to mention the submersion (in water, like 4wd's are prone to do) problems. I'll do just about anything to stay away from complex electronics under my hood....

Kinda sad really, considering I work in software development...:D

So did you ever git those pics of the Motor Mounts? Developer Huh.. I'm sorry , so how long do you have to work to pay off your school loans? Doin 10-15 myself for SW Dev LOL anyways.. :flipoff2:

Sounds like you guys need to git a "4 MOTION" passat and through some toy axles under there...

done!!

Save some big headaches!!

So did you ever git those pics of the Motor Mounts?

Dude:eek:, I'm sorry, I completely forgot about those. I'll take some tonight.


Developer Huh.. I'm sorry , so how long do you have to work to pay off your school loans? Doin 10-15 myself for SW Dev LOL anyways.. :flipoff2: [/B]

Man, you ain't kiddin' there. Talk about rubbin' salt in a wound! Thanks a lot!:flipoff2:

TTT!


So whatever happened to those pics man?!!!

Originally posted by ppillard
Glen, know you got your VW right off the pallat, but what car was it originally designed for? The jetta? What all VW's sported a 1.9L TD?
You can't get the 1.9 TD here in the States (VW never sold them here in anything), you have to get them from Canada...
Just curious.


I had 2 1.9 TD engines. One came from a British Golf, the other from a Canadian Golf.

To do it over from scratch again I'd go with the 1.6 TD engine. The 1.9 has great power, but I spent alot of time and money overcoming the heat issues at full throttle on long grades. A 1.6 would have been a drop-in-and-go.

Originally posted by kestrel
TTT!


So whatever happened to those pics man?!!!

Damnit, damnit, DAMNIT!! I keep forgetting about that! I really will do my damndest to take those pics tonight. Sorry, but things are pretty hectic around here lately.

You really thing the extra 300cc's are making all the heat, Glen? Why?
You ever check the timing on that thing? You have asked about how I deal with the heat several times, but you are kind of slim on specs for your diesel - i.e. what is the timing really set at? Too early and lotsa heat ( and more power, maybe). Also there are some external inputs to the pump that affect timing on the 1.9, two electrical and one mechanical ( the choke-cable type cold start timing advance control). Got any pics of the 1.9 installed in your rig? Especially the cooling system and injection pump hook ups? Gotta' intercooler? Did you follow Keltecs advice and throw out the 1.9 for the 1.6 style in t-stat placement?(I left mine down at the bottom of the system,btw).

Erik 1.9 TD
Tractor tires
Stock gears
Locked and throwin' mud to the sky:D

TTT!


So what about those pics? essay!!!!!!

Sorry it took so damn long....

These motor mounts are using the stock, drilled and tapped holes that popluate the sides of the VW diesel. They were a real life-saver.

http://www.boomspeed.com/ppillard/leftmotormount.jpg

http://www.boomspeed.com/ppillard/rightMotorMountTop.jpg

http://www.boomspeed.com/ppillard/bothMMunder.jpg

Once I get that cross member built, the engine mounting project will be finished. I know the diff looks like it sits really close to the motor, but it doesn't really. It's slid a lot more forward than the pics show, and fully articulated is even further away from the motor.

Hope these help. Took long enough to get 'em!

Thanks man.. this should really help out!