From the few pic's posted it looks like there's no place to really get the water to run off to. I'm having a hard time picturing the exact spot. Can anyone provide a little more detail about it's location?

Anyways here's a thought. What about getting a pump out there to pump out the water. Like a sump pump. That along with a couple of hoses might be able to get the water moved away from the area. I realize this isn't a permanent fix, but it could solve the current problem rather quickly.

I don't have my notes here but the mudhole is about 6.25 miles in to the trail from Indian Springs. After the first water crossing but before Winch Hill #1. Yes, it will be a challenge to fix it. I have been taking to Webilt and we are of the opinion that we need to remove the water about 50 feet off trail and fill the hole in. That's going to be the hard part. At first glance it doesn't look like there are a lot of rocks lying around there. It's more of a forested part of the trail. It's also quite a distance from both Indian Springs and the cut out. We have found a rental pump that will handle the job but will only allow us to work on the problem and not solve it. Water is constantly drainging into the hole. It needs to be brought up to grade or above. Maybe we take the Rubicon approach to start and everybody driving down the trail brings a few rocks in and throws them in the hole.

Gotcha. If it's the area I think it is then unfortunately I think you guys will need to take the "Dusy" approach, which has now been done on the Con too, which is building a log "road" or "bridge".

Not sure where you guys stand in the way of accepting donations yet, but if you have some list going add me to it. Currently I have way more money than time (I have very little time so thats not saying too much...lol) but I'll do what I can.

We are just keeping the promises in our back pocket for now. We aren't set up to take them yet, at least officially. It's just one of the many things we have to get organized. You're on the list. Thanks!:)

That mudhole definitly sucks.... This was from memorial weekend:fj:
Hope someone can find a way to repair this section.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c101/scout254/fordyce2007/P5260018.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c101/scout254/fordyce2007/P5260026.jpg

would a mini stand behind loader work , they have trencher , augers , tiller and loader buckets , the bucket is 36" wide , and it runs rubber tracks like a skid steer. they weigh around 450lbs, and could easily be hauled in.
if so i can get a couple on loaner for a weekend or two ?
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I'm not too sure this kind of equipment would work. The hole is mostly water and I don't think we want to actually scoop any more material out of it that neccessary. If we trench some kind on drainage ditch I think it will have to be shovel work.

We will keep it in mind for future work though.:D

Couple more pics.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e191/SCHooch1/Fordyce%20Memorial%20Day%2007/100_1636.jpg


http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e191/SCHooch1/Fordyce%20Memorial%20Day%2007/100_1647.jpg


http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e191/SCHooch1/Fordyce%20Memorial%20Day%2007/100_1644.jpg

Why Cant You Just Make The Trail Go Around It? And Leave That Area Alone

Because that is the trail and it isn't just as simple as creating a new bypass. We are here to preserve the trail and that means fixing problems as they arise. Bypassing that area would mean cutting down healthy living trees. That is not an option.

well ok i see your side................but inregards to fixing the problem it seems to me that the area is a setteling pond and by filling it in or diverting it will just put the problem somewhere ealse! so i do belive that we need to consider another route

Well On A Positve Note That Mud Hole Just Makes The Trail That Much More Callenging! By The Way Isnt That Why We Wheel? If Everything Was Sopose To Be Easy We Could Just Stay On The Highways.........lmao

I hate mud

Well On A Positve Note That Mud Hole Just Makes The Trail That Much More Callenging! By The Way Isnt That Why We Wheel? If Everything Was Sopose To Be Easy We Could Just Stay On The Highways.........lmao

Yes, but it also gives the greenies more ammuntion to close down wheeling areas if we let "damage" get too out of hand (erosion wise).

What about building up one side, say the right side, to the correct level and blocking off the rest? The way I see it, its the best of both worlds, repair and a way to minimize the damage without cutting a new path.

We could anchor in some large logs to create a retaining wall, add cement and rocks, and we'd be good for a while.

my .02

Thanks for all your suggestions. We will keep them in mind. The Forest Service has told me they want to have input on this particular fix because of the water routing issues and the problems it could create if mishandled. I am waiting to hear back on when some representatives from the FS can make a recon run into the spot. As soon as that happens we can schedule a work day to fix the problem. I'll keep everyone posted.

This looks like a pic of the same location without all of the standing water. Makes it a little easier to see what you're dealing with.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/pbb59b8b569cf4191bb37fa28f61aa225/e91cb496.jpg

hammerdown

Just an update. I'm trying to get all of the people involved lined up for a recon run in to the mudhole. Since the Forest Service thinks the resolution for this area is enough of an issue and they would also like to involve their Forest Trails Specialist, lining up a day everyone can attend is a challenge.

If anyone can post up more current pictures of the area in the meantime it will be a huge help.

Thanks,

Bret

Tinman, coiunt me in for help. I would reallylike to help clean up this part of the trail.

DIma

Maybe we take the Rubicon approach to start and everybody driving down the trail brings a few rocks in and throws them in the hole.

I think that would be the simplest and best approach, but it will take a LOT of rocks and a lot of trips. Enough rock that finding a good nearby source might be a challenge w/o affecting the trail somewhere else.

Even if we only filled in the ruts with a foot of rock, it would make the hole a foot less deep and help keep it from getting deeper. Ideally, the goal would be to fill it in completely though. Right now, every rig that drives through digs a little more...

I'd be pretty surprised if we could fill it all in on one work day, but I bet if we put up a sign at a rock source (or two) asking drivers to throw a few rocks in their rigs "here" and then another one at the dumping place saying "drop 'em here!", by the end of the season (or after Sierra Trek) we'd have that thing paved.

The other option is probably the "log road," but that is quite a bit more complicated and will require some engineering. Trees are plentiful there though, and the FS seems to have no problem with allowing cutting when its for a good cause.


And if/when there is a mailing list or something to let us all know when work days are, put me on it! I don't always check this forum.

You just need bigger tires

You just need bigger tires

Well now there's some good input :shaking:

It has nothing to do with being able to make it, and has everything to do with keeping the FS happy so they don't close it :)

I haven't been through that area. I always come down from meadow lake, and turn back before I get to the upper water crossing. Is it possible to get an 8 or ten foot dump trailer to that point with a mini thumb-excavator? A French (I hate the french!:rainbow:) drain looks like it would work, but the bigger the rocks you put in, the less likely they are to be moved around by the traffic, and it may add to the challenge. If the water can be routed to another area, it is not just "moving the problem". Any where other than on the trail, that water doesn't cause a problem because there is no traffic to create sediment to flow downhill. On the other hand, if there is no place to drain the water to, and if it is just in a "bowl" of sorts, is there a problem?
Put me on the list too.
forbergler@aol.com

In the picture I posted above (post #17), what about diverting the trail 10 feet to the right and building a fence line (downed trees) along the rut to divert traffic out of the hole. Done in conjunction with adding rocks or perpendicular logs to form a hard base on the new line to prevent 2 holes side by side. TDO's rock and logs method used on Walker Hill would be slick.

Over time sedimentation/additional rocks/etc could fill in and repair the rutted section. Granted this dosn't take into account the standing water on the trail that is the main issue.

Just another thought to put out on the table.

All these are good ideas and will be taken under consideration. It's looking like the recon day is going to be July 4th. Hopefully we can do a little work then also. FYI, a limited number of FOF stickers will be available for a small donation:D whenever you happen to meet me on the trail.

http://fourdice4x4.com/photos/albums/pebbles/DSCF2491.sized.jpg

Just an update. I'm trying to get all of the people involved lined up for a recon run in to the mudhole. Since the Forest Service thinks the resolution for this area is enough of an issue and they would also like to involve their Forest Trails Specialist, lining up a day everyone can attend is a challenge.

If anyone can post up more current pictures of the area in the meantime it will be a huge help.

Thanks,

Bret


The plan is shaping up. It looks like we'll be going up Tuesday evening July 3rd (camping at Cisco Grove) and head into the cut out around 9am Wednesday morning. Webilt may have a few guys up there on the 23rd and will be able to supply us with some updated information.

Mary Furney and Joe Chavez will be going in with us.

If we have any good information to go on we may also plan on doing a little work on the area too but the main focus will be to allow the Forest Service to get a look and tell us how they want us to fix the problem area.

Tinman,

I will be going threw on the 22nd and will take a bunch of pictures for you. We will be up there all weekend so I will post them on Monday the 2nd in the morning. Thanks for all you efforts.

Jason

Thanks!:D

Can you also verify which way the water flows across the trail. Kind of give us an idea how it approaches and what its path is after it crosses?

Thanks a million.

Bret

I will check out that info for you on the flow of the water.


After the committee crossing and before winch hill 3 is the creek spot. A year or two ago a bypass was made because it got so bad. Now that rout is bad and you have to winch up it. It ate my 37" krawler. There is some logs in there now to get some traction but this need to be looked at to keep people from going up the creek. These are some pictures of the spot.

Jason

are those current pictures or are they old....kinda looks like this spot
http://fourdice4x4.com/photos/albums/FOF-Survey-Run/FOF_Survey_034.sized.jpg

thats not the same spot.

This is the spot. Last year we added a lot of rock as well as improve the drainage that backed the water up that spot. It is holding but could a rock or two dropped in as you go by.

Jason are those pictures from last year?

http://fourdice4x4.com/photos/albums/workday06/P1010024.sized.jpg

thats not the same spot.

my bad...never mind...

This is the spot. Last year we added a lot of rock as well as improve the drainage that backed the water up that spot. It is holding but could a rock or two dropped in as you go by.

Jason are those pictures from last year?



Yes that is the spot. But there are no rocks and it is still holding water about then feet wide behind this spot.

The pictures are from this last weekend. There was no rocks in the mud.

People are going up stream and coming out over some logs.

Jason


Those guys are looking at where I took the pictures. The spot in this picture is about 10 feet to the left. It is the old rout that was blocked a couple of years ago.

http://fourdice4x4.com/photos/albums/FOF-Survey-Run/FOF_Survey_034.sized.jpg

That's too bad. It looked just fine on Memorial Day. It still had large rocks in place an no large holes to climb out of.

The pics up at the top of the thread are of a completely different mud hole from the ones here at the bottom.

The first one is in a swampy meadow area, which IIRC is somewhere prior to the commitee crossing (Cisco), but I forget how far. Probably quite a ways.

The last ones are at a seasonal creek bed you have to cross up above the committe crossing. This is the same spot we did some work on one of the Four-Dice sponsored workdays in Oct. '05 to winch some big logs across to keep people from driving up the creek. Unfortunately, they didn't stay there long...

And yes, that spot with the log ramp looks like the spot we blocked off that year too, in my last pic.

ErikB you are correct. The pictures in post #30 are of this spot. The "log ramp" is at about mile 5.5 which is before the CC. Jason said the mud hole he was talking about was AFTER the CC but before WH3.

I think the upper mud hole (creek bed) is just past the right hand turn after the number 9 on the map here.

http://www.mountainhead.org/albums/album05/scan0002.sized.jpg

yup thats the spot. Four Dice worked on that mudhole at their last cleanup and FOF did some work there over Memorial Day weekend... We thought we had it taken care of by making sure the creek was flowing good there and the exit looked like it was fine a few weeks ago....but obviously not. Looks like the 4th of July will be a mudhole fix fest :D

I think the upper mud hole (creek bed) is just past the right hand turn after the number 9 on the map here.

http://www.mountainhead.org/albums/album05/scan0002.sized.jpg

Yes that is the spot. I did not mean to get anyone confused by talking about a diffrent spot but wanted to bring up the problem.:D

No worries….it was this Shooter guy that started the confusion. :flipoff2:

Kris Revallier aka Mouth from the Four Dice club will be heading up the work party to clean out/repair the creek crossing problems at mile 9.25. Thanks for volunteering to lead this part of the work Kris! It looks like this will include cleaning out the creek as well as possibly creating a log ramp at the dug out area as you exit the creek. I understand some of the blockades up the creek have been driven over and these will have to be looked at as well. The creek access is a tough one. There is no great way to block it without creating a blockage to the water that runs down in the spring. This is an area where education (and a few strategically placed signs) looks to be the best way of dealing with the problem. It looks to be a long day on July 4th.:D

the work party will be leaving Cisco Grove camp ground at 8:00am sharp and heading for the mud hole. i hope to see some of you there.:smokin:

I wonder if you should start a new thread titled "Fordyce work day July 4th"

Might get more attention...

Done!

Here's a few pics of the mud hole this past weekend. It didn't look like much so we gave it a try with the tj on mogs and 40" boggers. We didn't try it with the cj because the mud would have been higher than the bottom of the door frame!

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/4313/rigspg7.jpg

Pic of mud hole, it didn't look like much at all.

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/4447/mudholegb4.jpg

It got deeper and started to swallow a 40" bogger in no time.

http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/5201/tiremudhole2qn7.jpg

Front tire is now completely submerged in the mud it got swallowed up and disappeared.

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/6859/tiremudholevb5.jpg

Here is a pic of the rear tire while front tire is completely submerged as shown in the pic above

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/162/reartiremudvv0.jpg

We tried everything we could but still couldn't make it through the mud. So we had to winch out of it.

http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/140/mudwinchcy1.jpg

Thanks Cummins! These pictures help a lot. The area looks like it has drained a whole bunch since we were through there on Memorial Day. That will make our work a lot easier and since people have the option to take the drier line the trail shouldn't get as chewed up in the meantime.

Those pictures look good. I will be going through tomorrow so I will also take some pictures.

Here's a few pics of the mud hole this past weekend. It didn't look like much so we gave it a try with the tj on mogs and 40" boggers. We didn't try it with the cj because the mud would have been higher than the bottom of the door frame!

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/4313/rigspg7.jpg

Pic of mud hole, it didn't look like much at all.

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/4447/mudholegb4.jpg

It got deeper and started to swallow a 40" bogger in no time.

http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/5201/tiremudhole2qn7.jpg

Front tire is now completely submerged in the mud it got swallowed up and disappeared.

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/6859/tiremudholevb5.jpg

Here is a pic of the rear tire while front tire is completely submerged as shown in the pic above

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/162/reartiremudvv0.jpg

We tried everything we could but still couldn't make it through the mud. So we had to winch out of it.

http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/140/mudwinchcy1.jpg


Thanks Pat. Damm we have alot of work to do on that monster.

Were you able to keep the dreads out of the mud? And where the hell is Big Red got dammit?

Why not start filling that mud pit in with logs and then add a bunch of rocks in on top of them?

Looks to be enough deadwood sitting around that area..

Hey Brandon! Ya the mud hole didn't look like anything then all of a sudden there was a big drop off on the right hand side!! LOL. Swallowed up the tires on that TJ. Mud level was at his rocker panel and he's on mogs so his rig is pretty tall. He's about 8 inches taller than me so the mud would have been all up in my cab. The left route was a lot drier so we could have taken that. But we wanted to see just how deep the mud hole was. Its a lot deeper than we thought! One of our rigs broke a rear shaft on winch hill 3 so after that we turned around and headed back. Me and the TJ made it no problem. Next time we're going to try the left line. We didn't want to do it this time because it was getting late and there were only 3 rigs in our group so if me or the tj broke that would make 2 broken rigs out of 3. And we all had to get back before Sunday for fathers day.

That's my rig on the right in this picture. Its no longer big red its big gray!! All rustoleum hammered LOL.

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/4313/rigspg7.jpg

Here's some other pics of it so you'll recognize it when you see it.

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/145/img0374oj2.jpg

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/4333/img0371vo0.jpg

That thing looks sweet Pat. :smokin::smokin:I like the gray way better then the red.

Why not start filling that mud pit in with logs and then add a bunch of rocks in on top of them?

Looks to be enough deadwood sitting around that area..

we tried that a year or 2 ago and when we came back a few months later someone had removed all of the wood and rock and spread it all around. it had to have taken just as much work to pull it all out as it did to put in. it just blows me away that someone would do that. i guess they really like mud.:shaking:

we tried that a year or 2 ago and when we came back a few months later someone had removed all of the wood and rock and spread it all around. it had to have taken just as much work to pull it all out as it did to put in. it just blows me away that someone would do that. i guess they really like mud.:shaking:

That is really hard to believe. I'm not saying I don't believe you, but after seeing the logs and rocks in the holes below Walker, I can't emagine anyone being that hell bent on driving through mud.:shaking:

I hate mud:barf:

the mudhole was actually a big work party in '05 and there was alot of log drug in there to bring the road up to grade and less then a yr later there isnt a log in sight. Maybe people started taking it for firewood or something :flipoff2:

Thanks B! Cost me about $30 bucks in paint!!! LOL! But ya I like it better too now its all one color instead of red, white, blue, black etc. It looks a lot different than when you saw it last. Wheel base is 114, has cutting brakes, mastercraft seats w/ 5 points, tube work and some other odds and ends.

Regarding the mudhole, I can't believe anyone would take out the rocks and wood!!! Crazy!!!!

I hate mud:barf:


Cucumber loves the mud :laughing:

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e191/SCHooch1/Fordyce%20Memorial%20Day%2007/100_1653.jpg