Lower 2 closure new post

[tellico_rocks]

This is long so please read..ok here we go...Lower 2 is open for now. The news on the Fj crew is also true to some extent. Today i met with the guy incharge of all the maintenance and land protection in tellico. I don't know his exact title, but he is the boss. May i also add a great guy and a new friend (thanks for all your help today Rob). The trail was closed for awhile, but is now open. They are going to be doing some hardcore maintenance on lower 2 to fix some erosion on that trail, and yes to repair the rock in which was moved and has now opened that illegal route/bypass. you are not supposed to go that way nor are you allowed to go to the far left of that. We will get to that in a sec..Now the news on the maintenance. They are working on some ideas to fix lower 2. The trail will probably be closed during the maintenance. I will let Rob put the info out on that, which hopefully he'll reply to this as soon as i get it on the board. I dont want to post what he said b/c he is the man and i'll let his ideas and thoughts be spoken in his words so there are no mess ups. Now for the BYPASS. You are not to be on that left side of the rock. I dont know why you would want to anyway b/c why would you want to lessen the difficultness of the trail. Thus goes back to the " if you cant hang stay off the trail or winch up it and go on about your day.( thats putting it nicely). If you are caught on bypasses that are illegal you will probably be in some big trouble. If they keep catching you on these non trails, and mistreating the "rules" they are and WILL CLOSE tellico. There is talk right now about doing so. So in closure.. Please dont mess this shit up for all of us. We are locals here and care about this land. Alot of us depend on tellico (chuck) for one and many others. Not only for loacls too, but the countless people who come here from all around the country. If they take it away from us we have nothing. Trust me on these posts. We know what we talking about. Once agian thanks Rob and all the people who keep tellico going. If you have any rude and smart ass replys to this please feel free to direct them to a brick wall. Also im not putting blame on anyone, but if we know who you are we will let everyone else know plain and simple. Thanks ----Tellico Rocks

[Cosmic Alien]

Yep, I saw them moving in the equipment getting ready for the "fix" on number 2. I sure hope Rob posts here as he had some great ideas. Thanks for the info Telico rocks.
ca

[Chris Hyde]

Good post. I wish everyone that wheeled up there could read this. Basically, they just need to put signs up threatening the closure of Tellico, that way EVERYONE will get the point, not just the people that read these forums. I mean, it only makes sense.

[redneckengineered]

I'd like to know if/when it gets closed for maintenance so I don't roll up one weekend ready to hit 2 and get caught with my pants down.

[heepr]

Very good info. After getting denied on the ledge, we have scooted around to the left before instead of winching when there were folks behind us. Didn't realize that it was a no-no. Any chance that somebody local could get some progress pics during and after they move the rock back? And maybe get the FS to put a sign up so everybody knows the rules?

[CHRIS SHELBY]

Thanks for the updates. Even though I haven't been up there since before the big rock slab was moved.

[McCracken]

I'd love to hear what they are proposing about fixing the bypasses. They put up guardrails during the winter closure and people just tore them down. I'm not saying that it won't help but I'd just like to see what they come up with.

Also, we need to watch for ATVs. Those sum bitches are the real problem there (IMO). They cut ghost trails all over the woods and start cutting new bypasses because there's no way in hell they can make the obstacles.

[dlc]

Good Info. I am going to head up that way right now to get my tires from Justin. I will stop by and take a look at it.

[Jaycar]

my small group will be there the weekend before the 4th of july, For the 1ST time, never been before, I live in MO, I have a qeustion, and I dont mean to be a dick or anything, what is the problem with a small bypass? I assume it is actually on the trail just a little wider to go around a hugh boulder or something, at least that is the case in Hot Springs superlift park, No i do not take any bypass unless I am broke down,

I am running rockwells and 44"'s so I try and look for the hardest line first:D, but is it an errosion problem or what, maybe it wil be obvious to me when I get there, but as far as a small goaround at a really really tough obstacle I dont see a problem if someone with a smaller rig tries it and cant make it, I would rather see them move over a little, (when people are waiting in line) then to sit there and watch them winch up something for 30 minutes.

I dont want to do anything wrng when we wheel there and I will have the upmost respect for wheelers and the trails, will it be obvious what and where we are supposed to go and not go, because the smaller rig with us on 38"'s may not make it on some of the trails we do, so should he have to winch over everything or is there "legal" bypasses.

Thanks Jason I hope you didnt take this the wrong way

[Eventhough]

Edited to make shorter and so I don't sound like an a$$.

First it is said the FJC team went "through the wood" and then it is said that its "true to some extent." Which is it? I was there and I never saw the FJC team go through the woods or off trail. Please provide evidence. I'm looking through all my pics and video from that day.

ETA x 2: my pics are on the laptop at home...will look tonight.

[tellico_rocks]

thanks for the input everyone. i want to first explain the bypass trouble. Unlike superlift park Tellico is national forest land not private property, so enviormental laws take effect. the more people who take those bypasses and non trail routes it causes more and more erosion problems. yeah i know it sounds and is messed up, but when the political hippies i mean the enviormentalist close it down, then what the hell do we do...the mainenance guys are working hard to solve these problems and keep everyone happy so we can keep wheeling. there are some good ideas to fix these issues. one in which was mentioned yesterday is to completely remove all rocks on lower 2, create a larger packed gravel base trail, replace the rocks like a very hard course, and leaving the left side of lower 2 course a gravel path so that if you break,cant make it, or just want to go around you just pull off and go on. Oh and yes it is a bitch when you have to wait 30 min's to go up. Please if its crowded and there are lines of rigs--- try, try,try, then move on, or let others go ahead. im not sure as when they are going to start work on 2, but i would say this week. Hopefully Rob will post and keep us informed.ok and once agian for the fj, toyota guys im just going by what i was told. i dont care who did it or what ever. it may of been another group of fj's what ever... just help us out and keep our tellico going. tellico rocks

[DanKunz]

Noted. I would add that since Rob's dad was with us that morning and took the same lines we took I would suspect they are not illegal, but rather areas that Rob was planning on addressing during maintenance. Please be sure to pass along what you actually talk about and not inflame anything. I know Rob, I know Roger, and I know the TT. Rob wasn't there that morning, Roger and the TT was, I was, and several dozen more folks are there. The small ledge and surge stone bypass is not illegal...it is maintained trail. The woods are, of course illegal. No one was in the woods that day.

I agree with the statement that we all need to do our part in making Tellico viable for the future. Pay your fees, respect the trail, don't litter, and don't trail blaze. A route around a rather hard obstacle with maintained surge stone and no top soil with no markings is a viable line unless it is clearly marked otherwise.

I hope Rob and Roger take care of it during maintenance. I will be talking to them next week when I am back up there.

Dan

[Eventhough]

Thanks for the clarification tellico_rocks. I looked through my pics and video and didn't see anyone anywhere near being off trail. I agree that people do need to stay on trail. It is a must. If we do not take care of the trail system we simply won't have a trail system in the future. Also, as DanKunz pointed out please don't inflame anything by repeating what someone says unless you know it to be true. If a false statement is repeated enough it becomes truth in many people's eyes. Lets all work together to keep the trails open. We need more people participating in trail maintenance - not just a select few working their humps off for everyone else.

[tellico_rocks]

Yeah rob said that his dad was out there that day so thats why i believe it was another group. like i said that is what i was told. Rob is a cool guy and i would not inflame anything we talked about. if it wasnt you guys please dont worry about it. you know how many toyota's go through there.

[James_Fendley]

I just don't see how a stock FJ Cruiser can run Lower 2 and stay on the "trail".

Found this in another thread.

05-22-2007, 09:11 PM #3
GRMhick
Registered User




Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: East Coast Hometown: Morgan Hill, Ca
Posts: 6,099
The problem with going to a solid axle, is that you loose the ATRAC system, which is key to making this truck go where it does. No ifs ever likes rockcrawling, but this one is going to take it better than just about any other on the market. You advantage in running the FJ is being able to pull lines that you wouldnt be able to grab in a truck with lockers front and rear.

We had 125 people drive 2 of our FJ's at an r rock event a few weekends ago, including over a rock section. They are still holding up. Last week we ran them up lower 2 at tellico, and now Im in a hotel, on my way up to Rousch Creek. They take this abuse and more. I think you will have minimal problems running the FJ.
__________________
Garrett Matt

Toyota Motor Company

--East U.S. Toyota FJ Cruiser Trail Team--

www.toyota.com/fjtrailteam

[Eventhough]

I just don't see how a stock FJ Cruiser can run Lower 2 and stay on the "trail".

They did lower 2, stayed on the trail, and many people saw it. Just b/c you are in a stock vehicle doesn't mean you have to go off trail.

[Fl-Krawler]

The small ledge and surge stone bypass is not illegal...it is maintained trail. The woods are, of course illegal. No one was in the woods that day.



.

Dan

to the left of the big rock was part of the woods and there used to be boulders and fallen trees lining the trail to keep people from going to the left of the rock.people have moved the rocks and logs and there has just been so much traffic to the left of the rock that it now apears to be part of the trail, in fact it looks like "the" trail now with the ledge being the offshoot..i am not knocking anybody for taking it, as its not posted as an illegal route and certainly looks like part of the trail as do most of the bypasses in tellico..i personally dont think the forestry service is gonna do anything about them, but rather just sit back and one day say ok, we've had enough of this and you've had your chances.. were just gonna close the trail to eliminate the problem

[tellico_rocks]

thanks for all the posts guys lets go wheeling and keep tellico rocking.

[BigGreenMonster]

this is crazy... all this fuss over the bypasses and 2 things are missing. 1. signs/ barriers at the bypass... 2. a pic of the bypass. 1/2 the people say one thing 1/2 say the other. i have an idea... lets just argue on the net and let nature take its course. :shaking:

[jeepsxtreme]

The bypass that is being discussed is the trail that was blazed completly though the woods, not the one around the ledge. It was blatant that someone went though the woods, way off of lower trail 2. The rangers put up signs on Sunday 5/28/07 right before our group (Poor Boys 4wd and Maryland Creepers) ran lower 2. Unfortunately the rangers can't be out on the trail and police everyone that is on the trail. We need to police ourselves or we will loose our privlege to enjoy our sport.
Everyone should report any misuse of the trails at Tellico or we will loose a great place to wheel.

[DSLTOY]

What happened at lower 2 and the top of trail 9 is that ATV's start bypassinhg spots they can't get through then after a while its starts to look like a trail and people in full size vehicles new to the area think it is a trail and start driving it. The USFS guys don't get to some of these areas often enough so they see the full size tracks and blame us. Please if you see someone doing this let them know they are not on the legal trail.

I was with the FJ Cruiser Trail team two weks ago, yes they took the left line at the big rock, but this area is considered in the trail bed. The USFS complaint that the Toyota guys cut a new bypass is a case of the above. The ATV bypass has been there for a while and at some point full size vehicles started using it, the USFS finally noticed it after our event (GSMTR) so we must be responsible.

[Appntr]

Great writeup...I was there for the SETTORA event this weekend and yes...they do have Lower 2 closed at times for maintnence. Some of our guys ran it this morning before they left. Hopefully people get the picture and stop doing this "bypass" and off trail crap.

[ATLRoach]

I was one of the seven running Lower 2 this morning. The trail has been closed since at least thurs and was reopened at 6:45pm last night. The ATV bypass have been closed with large dugout holes with signs marking road closed. Alot the approach trail has been smoothed with alot rocks moved on it.

Also the original poster you are full of bs man! The FJ team never left the trail and there is many to prove this. Sorry bud but you need to stop posting misinfo as facts.

[Mossyrocks]

I spoke to one of the maint. men leaving it open last night and he also confirmed that ATVs cut a trail in the woods.

[init6]

confirmed that ATVs cut a trail in the woods.



They need to ban ATV's at Tellico. They are nothing but trouble.

[McCracken]

this is crazy... all this fuss over the bypasses and 2 things are missing. 1. signs/ barriers at the bypass... 2. a pic of the bypass. 1/2 the people say one thing 1/2 say the other. i have an idea... lets just argue on the net and let nature take its course. :shaking:


I have a better one. stfu. at least these people give a shit about what happens there. if you've been there then you know exactly where they're talking about. also, if you need it, go to the pics thread and look for it there.

[tellico_rocks]

Thanks McCracken, ATL roach is lost. I forgot he lives here you know. It must suck to know everything. if this wasnt the problem then i guess they wouldnt be trying to fix the trail. I also keep in mind that another reason is to control erosion and sediment deposits at the buttom of the trail. thanks for your support and keeping tellico going...

[Mossyrocks]

I have an ATV for around the farm and what-not. I would love nothing more than for them to ban ATVs all together.

[BigGreenMonster]

I have a better one. stfu. at least these people give a shit about what happens there. if you've been there then you know exactly where they're talking about. also, if you need it, go to the pics thread and look for it there.

i have been there, a number of times you ass... 1/2 the people in this thread are talking about 2 totally different bypasses dip shit! to my knowledge to the right of the rock is a no no, but count how many people, in this tellico land use thread who obviously care about the place, are misinformed. how bout you shut the fawk up and help clear up some confusion instead of just throwing out 1/2 cocked bull shit... and find me a pic that says... here is the illegal bypass at lower 2, but then again that would be productive and would have been the whole purpose of my original post ass hat.

[tellico_rocks]

who are you talking to man.

[BigGreenMonster]

see the quote

[McCracken]

also, if you need it, go to the pics thread and look for it there.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=582776

#16 and #18

now please. stfu.

The bypass where everyone is standing used to not be there either. you can clearly see the trail. it's pretty damn obvious. you sound like a shit eating lawyer trying to nit-pick the regs. If you've been there and can't see where the bypass is, you sir are the dumbass :shaking:

[kibblerange]

i have been there, a number of times you ass... 1/2 the people in this thread are talking about 2 totally different bypasses dip shit! to my knowledge to the right of the rock is a no no, but count how many people, in this tellico land use thread who obviously care about the place, are misinformed. how bout you shut the fawk up and help clear up some confusion instead of just throwing out 1/2 cocked bull shit... and find me a pic that says... here is the illegal bypass at lower 2, but then again that would be productive and would have been the whole purpose of my original post ass hat.

I don't think we're here to clear up confusion and gossip.
We're here to keep Tellico Open...
Who cares who did what, it just needs to be fixed and stopped. :shaking:

-Mason

[McCracken]

x eleventybajillion :mr-t:

[fing30]

We were at Tellico from Sat afternoon until this morning (June 5)

When we pulled up to the entrance of lower 2 Sat around 5:00, the trail was officially closed and blocked off, but a guy on a trackhoe was coming down off the trail:(. He had been working on it for a couple days fixing the bypasses and building sediment traps. He said it was back open and we were welcome to try it out:). We asked him about the "bypass" issue. He said that the small bypass to the left of the big rocks was legal to use because it was still in the trail bed. He said that the forrestry service had complained about the bypasses that actually went out through the woods, but he had used his trackhoe to close off all the areas. When we got up to the rock garden all bypasses were blocked off. The small bypass around the large rock ledge everyone is talking about was open.

We also ran guardrail, helicopter pad, right hand side of slickrock and the ledge at the top of slickrock without pulling any winch cable:smokin:. The ledge at the top is a bitch to say the least, but we somehow made it.

We talked to the trackhoe guy for over an hour while we fixed our shit. We is a super nice guy and was very helpful. I think he said his name was Phil, but I'm not sure.

We saw him again coming down from repairing trail 5 yesterday. He named several trails that were going to be next, but I can't remember the numbers.

[tellico_rocks]

thats exactly what they told us. im glad to here they got it fixed up and no more idiots going though the woods. i'll be up there today and will probably see rob and them.

[tellico_rocks]

got ya big green monster...........:confused:

[dlc]

We were at Tellico from Sat afternoon until this morning (June 5)

When we pulled up to the entrance of lower 2 Sat around 5:00, the trail was officially closed and blocked off, but a guy on a trackhoe was coming down off the trail:(. He had been working on it for a couple days fixing the bypasses and building sediment traps. He said it was back open and we were welcome to try it out:). We asked him about the "bypass" issue. He said that the small bypass to the left of the big rocks was legal to use because it was still in the trail bed. He said that the forrestry service had complained about the bypasses that actually went out through the woods, but he had used his trackhoe to close off all the areas. When we got up to the rock garden all bypasses were blocked off. The small bypass around the large rock ledge everyone is talking about was open.

We also ran guardrail, helicopter pad, right hand side of slickrock and the ledge at the top of slickrock without pulling any winch cable:smokin:. The ledge at the top is a bitch to say the least, but we somehow made it.

We talked to the trackhoe guy for over an hour while we fixed our shit. We is a super nice guy and was very helpful. I think he said his name was Phil, but I'm not sure.

We saw him again coming down from repairing trail 5 yesterday. He named several trails that were going to be next, but I can't remember the numbers.


Same thing I was told. So the bypass to the left of the big rock is legal. Man this has been one confusing thread.

[tellico_rocks]

Hey Dj, yeah im getting confused too. not about the trail just all the people talking shi# who knows.. Rob told me at one time just to the left of the rock was not the trail and i was told that a group of toyota fj people (not blaming one group) went through the woods. that most certianly not a trail. i think we need to get the word out that we're serious about this and people need to respect the guide lines and keep wheeling and those who want to bitch and complian need to pull there buttom lip over there head an swallow. because they will shut these trails down and eventually all of tellico. sums it up pretty good. you going to jellico this weekend.

[Mossyrocks]

and we're telling you it wasnt the FJ crew, it was atvs that cut through the woods.

[Mossyrocks]

and they were trying to do it again within 15 mins. of it re-opening saturday night

[dlc]

Its hard to put up barriers to keep out ATV's :mad3:.

Tellico_rocks I will be in Jellico.

[tellico_rocks]

cool we'll see you there. i'll be with chuck and justin. he spotting for cole now.

[19lewko87]

wow i cant belive there closeing trails there now the last time i was there was 1998 for the GREAT SMOKEY MOUNTAIN VENTURE.

[tellico_rocks]

there not closing trails yet. tellico is still rocken. we just got to help keep it open..and hope they can fix the erosion and the river crossings.

[BigGreenMonster]

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=582776

#16 and #18

The bypass where everyone is standing used to not be there either. you can clearly see the trail. it's pretty damn obvious.

well according to the cat fixing the park you are wrong and obviously a fawking idiot. but thanks for sharing


you sound like a shit eating lawyer trying to nit-pick the regs. If you've been there and can't see where the bypass is, you sir are the dumbass :shaking:

you must be a fawking idiot! like i said, there are 4 different post with prolly 20 people all with the same goal who are unclear. just because you know... wait, you were wrong, you THOUGHT you knew you could have helped the situation by discussing the problem. seeing how folks were talking about a trail threw the woods and not just going around the rock. i was wrong just like you seeing how i thought that was the illegal bypass also but i wanted to be clear and know the truth were you just wanted to look like a dumb prick.


I don't think we're here to clear up confusion and gossip.
We're here to keep Tellico Open...
Who cares who did what, it just needs to be fixed and stopped. :shaking:

-Mason

in order to keep tellico open WE have to clear up the confusion.


We asked him about the "bypass" issue. He said that the small bypass to the left of the big rocks was legal to use because it was still in the trail bed. He said that the forestry service had complained about the bypasses that actually went out through the woods, but he had used his trackhoe to close off all the areas.

holy crap! that is an informative statement. now if the FS backs that than there is no confusion and we have a definitive answer. thanks for the help!

[McCracken]

well according to the cat fixing the park you are wrong and obviously a fawking idiot. but thanks for sharing

you must be a fawking idiot! like i said, there are 4 different post with prolly 20 people all with the same goal who are unclear. just because you know... wait, you were wrong, you THOUGHT you knew you could have helped the situation by discussing the problem. seeing how folks were talking about a trail threw the woods and not just going around the rock. i was wrong just like you seeing how i thought that was the illegal bypass also but i wanted to be clear and know the truth were you just wanted to look like a dumb prick.


Listen fuckstick, IMO anything to the left is a bypass. If you roll up to guardrail and go to the left you're missing the obstacle which is the point of the damn trail. If you go up Lower 2 and see a huge fucking ledge and go around it instead of up it then you're not riding the trail. I think it's pretty easy to figure out. Evidentally, for folks like yourself you like having that little step around... bypassing the obstacle. I bet you've got a ton of stories about how you rode the hardest trails when in reality what you rode was "technically" the trail. Way to go hardass. Anything else?

[vanguard_anon]

McCracken, this is supposed to be about illegal bypasses. I love legal bypasses, they help keep my group with different rig capabilities together. I hate illegal bypasses, they get trails closed. If I ran a trail system I'd have bypasses next to every hardcore obstacle so people can avoid the wait, extract their broken rigs, or just ride with their more hardcore buddies.

Back on topic, I wish I took pics but the lower 2 bypass is impossible to miss. It's separated from the main trail by 20 feet of trees and now they've taken a backhoe to it so that it's not easy to run anyway.

[ATLRoach]

Hey Dj, yeah im getting confused too. not about the trail just all the people talking shi# who knows.. Rob told me at one time just to the left of the rock was not the trail and i was told that a group of toyota fj people (not blaming one group) went through the woods. that most certianly not a trail. i think we need to get the word out that we're serious about this and people need to respect the guide lines and keep wheeling and those who want to bitch and complian need to pull there buttom lip over there head an swallow. because they will shut these trails down and eventually all of tellico. sums it up pretty good. you going to jellico this weekend.

Dude when will get this out of your head.. We have told you FJ Trail Team didn't leave the trail, hell there are pics of them pulling cable to prove it. Like I told you before I was one of the first up that trail after the closure, saw the signs and the closed ATV spider trails. When was the last time you went up it or in the park to know these things?

[McCracken]

McCracken, this is supposed to be about illegal bypasses. I love legal bypasses, they help keep my group with different rig capabilities together. I hate illegal bypasses, they get trails closed. If I ran a trail system I'd have bypasses next to every hardcore obstacle so people can avoid the wait, extract their broken rigs, or just ride with their more hardcore buddies.

Back on topic, I wish I took pics but the lower 2 bypass is impossible to miss. It's separated from the main trail by 20 feet of trees and now they've taken a backhoe to it so that it's not easy to run anyway.


If a trail is constructed that way then I see no problem. My point is that the bypass that's there now wasn't there to begin with. Taking different lines is what happens and is necessary but when it begins to go outside of the lines I just don't agree with it. Call it the eco-nazi in me but I just don't see cutting new ground as a viable alternative.

[Eventhough]

Hey Dj, yeah im getting confused too. not about the trail just all the people talking shi# who knows.. Rob told me at one time just to the left of the rock was not the trail and i was told that a group of toyota fj people (not blaming one group) went through the woods. that most certianly not a trail. i think we need to get the word out that we're serious about this and people need to respect the guide lines and keep wheeling and those who want to bitch and complian need to pull there buttom lip over there head an swallow. because they will shut these trails down and eventually all of tellico. sums it up pretty good. you going to jellico this weekend.

I am still waiting for a retraction from your initial incorrect post stating that the FJC team was off trail. I'm not out on a witch hunt - only want to make this thread less confusing. I had hoped that you would have done this earlier when it was proven that the FJC team was not off trail. Thanks.

[BigGreenMonster]

Listen fuckstick, IMO anything to the left is a bypass. If you roll up to guardrail and go to the left you're missing the obstacle which is the point of the damn trail. If you go up Lower 2 and see a huge fucking ledge and go around it instead of up it then you're not riding the trail. I think it's pretty easy to figure out. Evidentally, for folks like yourself you like having that little step around... bypassing the obstacle. I bet you've got a ton of stories about how you rode the hardest trails when in reality what you rode was "technically" the trail. Way to go hardass. Anything else?

what the hell does that have to do with this thread? this thread is about ILLEAGEL bypasses. i understand the point is to make the leadge. making lower 2 is driving up the leadge under your own power without a winch, but again you are not smart enough to see that this is for another thread. try and remember this is about trying to save our trail and not having the biggest cawk.

[McCracken]

Well, in that case clearly you do. :laughing:

The point I'm making is about prevention of future illegal bypasses and making sure that no one else strays on trail. It's like a merry go-round. It goes up and down and around and around. Doing the bull dance, feeling the flow. :flipoff2:

[BigGreenMonster]

The point I'm making is about prevention of future illegal bypasses and making sure that no one else strays on trail. :flipoff2:

exactly, honestly ass-hats who take a bypass and then brag the trail was easy is not the point. as long as they are leagle then whatever. the best solution would be to outlaw the atv's. i will be looking for some perps this weekend.

[kibblerange]

exactly, honestly ass-hats who take a bypass and then brag the trail was easy is not the point. as long as they are leagle then whatever. the best solution would be to outlaw the atv's. i will be looking for some perps this weekend.

What are you going to do? Hunt them down and stalk them. Thats gonna really help keep the trails open :shaking::flipoff2:

[BigGreenMonster]

i was thinking ,maybe throw rocks at them... or wedgies! yeah that will teach em! :flipoff2:

[kibblerange]

We could always bribe the Bear Hunters to actually capture a live one and release it on the ATV'ers :D

[fing30]

and they were trying to do it again within 15 mins. of it re-opening saturday night

This isn't exactly true...we were the first to go up lower 2 when it opened. We had mechanical difficulties about 100 feet before the rock ledge and sat there for over two hours making repairs. No one else ever came up the trail. When we finally completed the trail (over the ledge, not the bypass) it was well after dark and several hours after the trail had been opened.

[vanguard_anon]

I saw you guys there working on a rig. You were on the legal part of the trail, no problems. I didn't see anybody else trying it. We might have but some guys with broken rigs were clogging it up so we went on to upper 2. :)

[tellicorob]

Sorry it took me so long to reply to this. Lower 2 is open , it was only closed on June1,2. The illegal bypass was the one running through the woods. It's closed now. The FJC team took the bypass to the left of the big rock, this is considered to be in the trail. I was told that there were trucks running through the woods during the Toyota event (May 13-19). If anyone has any info on this please contact me, and I'll deal with them. ( this was my clubs event).We'll be working on Trail 5 and 4 between rough water and Fain's ford on June 15-19, so there may be some traffic delays.

[offroadrocktoy]

I was not going to comment on this till I seen it for my self, so I just returned from tellico. Lower 2 is open and the by-passes have been fixed. Looks like they took a track hoe and dug deep silt retaining ditches and they are yellow signs that say section closed. The by-pass everyone is talking about starts down at the first turn and runs right beside lower 2 about 20yds in the woods.
I took some pictures the best I could and a small video that maybe can clear things up a little.
http://usera.imagecave.com/offroadrocktoy/Tellico/rs2.JPG
And here is the link to video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JkvxvzXt7E

[Mossyrocks]

This isn't exactly true...we were the first to go up lower 2 when it opened. We had mechanical difficulties about 100 feet before the rock ledge and sat there for over two hours making repairs. No one else ever came up the trail. When we finally completed the trail (over the ledge, not the bypass) it was well after dark and several hours after the trail had been opened.

Sorry bout that, I got all bass ackards. It was while they were still on it before it opened that some ATVs came down the trail.

On a side note: I talked to Rob today and he said a big problem is that when they Put up a sign it just gets stolen.

[35xj]

spent the day in tellico yesterday. Lots of trail work has been done. the new bridge on 5(?) is prettty impressive.
as for lower 2. the new ditches have got to help. But i fear that those peckergnatts (atv's) will find a new way around everything.

[Mossyrocks]

x2. We were on lower 2 yesterday morning as well. There were 2 atvs on it in front of us, behind another group. We let 'em know too.

[offroadrocktoy]

x2. We were on lower 2 yesterday morning as well. There were 2 atvs on it in front of us, behind another group. We let 'em know too.

Mossyrocks you must have been close to us(we was in the red toyota buggy). We seen the two atv and heard someone tell them about not being on the trail.

[Mossyrocks]

we were right behind you then. My runner was at home, but we had 3 1st gens, the budbuilt taco, and a FJ40. Robs dad roger was the one that told them.

[seaflea]

I was there in the shiny first gen (in front of Bud)! It was nice to meet you guys. :D

[Mossyrocks]

.......... that thing aint shiny :D

[jhnyct]

the new bridge on 5(?) is prettty impressive.
as for lower 2. the new ditches have got to help.

Does anyone have a pic of the new bridge on 5?

[seaflea]

.......... that thing aint shiny :D

LOL not quite as shiny as yours..... :flipoff2: Of course I still have all my windows left! :grinpimp:

Upper 2 sounded like it was a killer to all of yall.

[seaflea]

Does anyone have a pic of the new bridge on 5?

Here you go.

http://homepage.mac.com/turboale/.Pictures/SE4RJ07/_MG_3475.jpg

[Sonnenburg]

makes you remember the time when anyone <35"s had to go around trail 1-4 to get to schoolbus and fain's ford..

[redneckengineered]

I think we should grade every trail at Tellico so the guys from Jeeps Unlimited and Southern Jeeps can ride Schoolbus/Lower 2/Guardrail/Slickrock/Peckerwood and then run home and tell all their mall crawlin buddies how awesome they are.

[s10er8]

I think we should grade every trail at Tellico so the guys from Jeeps Unlimited and Southern Jeeps can ride Schoolbus/Lower 2/Guardrail/Slickrock/Peckerwood and then run home and tell all their mall crawlin buddies how awesome they are.That's ignorant

[hackedmj]

I think we should grade every trail at Tellico so the guys from Jeeps Unlimited and Southern Jeeps can ride Schoolbus/Lower 2/Guardrail/Slickrock/Peckerwood and then run home and tell all their mall crawlin buddies how awesome they are.

Very ignorant, I'm not a member or never wheeled with Southern Jeeps but have wheeled Tellico for years. Southern Jeep have always come out in big numbers to the cleanups, picking up trash on the trails and river banks to keep the trails open. If they want to run home and say they did every obstacle and screwed a bear, It's fine with me.

[McCracken]

If they want to run home and say ... they screwed a bear, It's fine with me.

They didn't. I was there :flipoff2:

[dozier13]

I was up a few weeks ago for the first time in a while. the new bridge on 5 is pretty impressive, took a lot of time Im sure to make it look nice. I had a question on camping out there.. i used to always camp in a tent right out on a trail and I got flamed by some people saying that it was illegal and then some folks said it was perfectly fine. was wondering if anyone had any input on this so I know for the next time. I know u cant camp off of 1 or 5 but I didnt know about the other trails. thanks

Chris

[hackedmj]

They didn't. I was there :flipoff2:
Well maybe it was second base but that's how wheelin stories go.

Back to the subject,Tellico's bypass problems are caused by dumbasses. It's not the ATVers, not the guys on 31s, not the big rigs and buggies, it's a dumbass with either of these vehicles.Trying to pack the blame on one group of vehicles is wrong. Let's see if maybe we can stop blaming each other and work towards stopping the INDIVIDUALS messing it up for us all.

[tellicorob]

There is NO camping allowed on trail 1 or 5 right now. The sign at the bridge on tr 5 is confusing people. It says Camping permitted in Designated Areas only. The thing is that right now there are no designated areas. When they wanted to close camping we (SFWDA) purposed that they make it designated areas only, like on the Tennessee side. This way we could go back later and put in some approved sites. Tha Alan Gap and Trail 6 parking lots are also closed to camping. Everywhere else is open.

[Blue Ridge Runner]

I was at Tellico last weekend. The Southern 4wd Association has done a heluva job on the bridges and I saw a track hoe parked at Fains Ford. I believe the water crossing there will soon have a bridge also. The bypasses were also clearly marked and there was huge holes dug to prevent the irresponsible ATVers from using it any longer. They also did a lot of trail repair on trails 4, 5, and 6.

[wrackcrawler]

first off,i would like to say thank you to tellico_rocks for the good update. i personally have not run lower 2 in almost a year,but i know the bypass in question. i have led some rides at dixie run for a few years and always see people off the trails. i generally nicely inform them that they are off the trail and tell them where they need to be. it genuinely pisses me off,but i try to be nice! this has almost turned into a few fights due to some of the more,shall we say, uneducated people in our sport. i take my ride time serious,and being from just across the mountain in madisonville,tn,consider myself a local. i hear trail 9 is suffering from the same dilemma. i have read some good ideas on here,and maybe one of the local clubs should run with the idea of putting up some pics and info on this at the pay station if the forrest service will not. kind of feel bad for not keeping up with things more myself,but i like to think anyone that has alot of seat time could give someone some education if they are out of line. just my two cents.

[Eventhough]

first off,i would like to say thank you to tellico_rocks for the good update. i personally have not run lower 2 in almost a year,but i know the bypass in question. i have led some rides at dixie run for a few years and always see people off the trails. i generally nicely inform them that they are off the trail and tell them where they need to be. it genuinely pisses me off,but i try to be nice! this has almost turned into a few fights due to some of the more,shall we say, uneducated people in our sport. i take my ride time serious,and being from just across the mountain in madisonville,tn,consider myself a local. i hear trail 9 is suffering from the same dilemma. i have read some good ideas on here,and maybe one of the local clubs should run with the idea of putting up some pics and info on this at the pay station if the forrest service will not. kind of feel bad for not keeping up with things more myself,but i like to think anyone that has alot of seat time could give someone some education if they are out of line. just my two cents.

Note that tellico_rocks was incorrect in stating that the FJC Trail Team was off trail. They were not and tellico_rocks has not retracted his incorrect statement.

Back to your point - self policing is important but you do have to be careful with who you approach and how you approach them. We need to be ever more careful in our trail impacts now with the impending lawsuit.

[s10er8]

Check out the Rubicon forum and see what happens with law enforcement on the trails, they are fining people for a lot of unnecessary stuff trying to be trail nazi's

[BigGreenMonster]

well what do you want... ranger nazi's or playing cards because everything is shut down. 90% of the folks here are going to play by the rules. 10% here will not. 98% of the toothless redneck's do not know and do not care because they will just trespass anyway. those folks are the ones who will have the place shut down. so unless they are cited then you might as well sell your rig while there is a demand :shaking:

[s10er8]

A middle of the road solution, maybe a small fine like $20 for the first small offense like parking on the side too far and increase it for the second offense.

But.... the only thing about that is after the first offense you would be scared to get so far on the side of the trail to get out ofthe way you end up parking on the trail and blocking it (bathroom break, repair, stoping to eat, getting out of the way of oncoming traffic...whatever)

I don't have anything against the law, I commend them for what they do.

[BigGreenMonster]

i hear what you are saying and it is scary ascking for it because it could go to far but i fear without it it will be gone. something has to be done to control the idiots. i spoke with a local guy that is fairly active in the "politics" and he said at one time there were folks volintering to be "deputized rangers" to patrol the trails... these would be trained citizans not caring firearms... and the FS did not have any interest. there responce was folks will stay on the trails or the park will be shut down... that is very discuraging.

[s10er8]

that is very discuraging.Yes it is.

I hate the fact that they are called environmenalists... I AM an environmentlist not them assholes.

[tellico_rocks]

i haven't checked in on this in awhile due to working on my buggy for W.E ROCK next season. it still looks like i have some mad people out there who can't get what i stated through there heads (eventhough). Im sure i have a zillion people to back me up on this. I said that a group of fj's or fj crew or how ever you want to take it had some off trail issues. If it wasnt your fjc trail crew then dont worry about. we have more issues to worry about here.I will tell you that if people dont respect those trails and our land they will take it from us. I know everyone is hearing about whats going on now. if you dont there are some pretty good folk on this tellico bulletin who are keeping you all posted. they are pretty good threads and very correct. keep up with robs (tellico rob) thread. He is the man and will keep you informed. please help us fight this. alot of my close friends depend on keeping tellico open because there jobs,homes,lives, and families depend on it. thanks Tellico Rocks..

please stay posted, Tellico Rocks is soon to be a news letter/mag. with tellico postings, area trails, competition coverage and more... we will also be starting a tellico rocks offroad club very soon. thanks

[Blue Ridge Runner]

Looking forward to it. :smokin:

[Eventhough]

i haven't checked in on this in awhile due to working on my buggy for W.E ROCK next season. it still looks like i have some mad people out there who can't get what i stated through there heads (eventhough). Im sure i have a zillion people to back me up on this. I said that a group of fj's or fj crew or how ever you want to take it had some off trail issues. If it wasnt your fjc trail crew then dont worry about. we have more issues to worry about here.I will tell you that if people dont respect those trails and our land they will take it from us. I know everyone is hearing about whats going on now. if you dont there are some pretty good folk on this tellico bulletin who are keeping you all posted. they are pretty good threads and very correct. keep up with robs (tellico rob) thread. He is the man and will keep you informed. please help us fight this. alot of my close friends depend on keeping tellico open because there jobs,homes,lives, and families depend on it. thanks Tellico Rocks..

please stay posted, Tellico Rocks is soon to be a news letter/mag. with tellico postings, area trails, competition coverage and more... we will also be starting a tellico rocks offroad club very soon. thanks

tellico_rocks - I'm not trying to make this into a pissing match. The number one priority here is to keep Tellico open - I think we agree on that. Without going back and reading through the entire thread what I recall is that you said you heard the FJ Trail Crew team was off trail. I was there, so were others, they were not off trail - this is a fact with much proof to back it up so on this topic you were wrong. If a different group of FJ Cruisers went off trail then they should be prosecuted if we can find 'em. If we can't find them we should work together and do whatever we can to keep this from happening again. What I have not seen is you recant your initial false statement that the FJ Cruiser Trail Team was off trail. If I missed it then I already apologize and please point out your post. Tellico Rob is doing GREAT work on the trails - I commend him and STLCA's efforts.

What I don't want for this to be is for people to be blaming one group of users from what they heard from someone else. This is hearsay and isn't worth a pile of dirt. As we all know if something is repeated enough times people believe it as the gospel whether it is true or false.

When it comes down to it I think we are on the same page - maybe just different parts of the page but the same page. Don't think that I'm not doing anything either to help Tellico. I've offered my professional services (which are not cheap) to assist STLCA and the Forest Service in their defense of the lawsuit.

I don't check Pirate much so I'm going to leave it at this - you may do as you wish. Have a good one! :)

[DanKunz]

Not to mention Roger (Rob's dad) was with us on that run with the FJC TT (I was right behind them) and we both have stated that the Toyota FJC TT did not leave the trail.

If there was another group that left the trail and we have some evidence, we should get on them. That is not cool.

As for current Tellico help, I believe my sister (k9crazy) is helping a great deal with the issues ongoing. I would help if there was a way, but I don't have any law/environmental background, so I am going up to help do the work that needs done. That is what I can do.

Everyone do their part. The most important part of this is to speak from fact, not word of mouth. If you have real data (pictures, eye witness accounts, etc) to violations on trails we need to flesh those out and catch these people. If you hear something and post it on the internet you are NOT helping anyone. You are starting rumors. Period.

[tellico_rocks]

Thats your sister. man i didn't know that. she is doing a great deal of help for us. you know i think i know who you are now. were you at the last meeting.

[TNMAN]

I know that I am probably gonna catch some flak for this ...BUT.....concerning what tellico_rocks has said about "bypasses"; In my opinion....if ya know that you probably can't do the trail,why take it? Illegal bypasses are a problem everywhere you go. There seems to be a certain group of wheelers that just don;t seem to understand the impact of their actions. Perhaps education could help prevent this? You'd probably be surprised at the number of wheelers that just do not know that some of the things they do are illegal or damaging. In these times that we are all going through....education could very well be something that needs to be in place. I know that there are organizations and groups out there that already are doing this, but still there are wheelers that are "slipping through the cracks" ...so to speak.
I am deeply saddened by all the issues with Tellico. The eviormental groups are using the tools that we provide for them against us.We all know that for the most part this is true. Even with our best efforts though,they will still find fault. I intend to do whatever I can do to help SAVE TELLICO. Please don't let the voices of a few speak louder than the voices of many.....and WE are many.

[BigGreenMonster]

sevral problems with what you said...

yes, if your junk cannot make the obstical you have no bussness there. now if your group is going to drag your junk up the hartd line fine but still... if you do not have a chance to make it then do not go up the trail.

the people rading this in the land use issue are not the problem. the idiots who do what they want damn the results are the problem. they do not care because they will trespass when it is closed anyway. comon sence is the answer but untill we can kill ass hats then there actions will scream much louder then our efforts

[tnxjjeeper]

We ran lower 2 yesterday evening. The guys at Tellico did a fantastic job on the bypass. You can tell these guys are going all they can and more trying to keep the trails usable. I am happy to say we did not see anyone or any evidence of people getting off the trail. Hopefully we can keep things like this and be able to enjoy this trail indefinatly.

[angrytodd]

Dear Interested Public,

I am seeking comments on two proposals to establish new Forest Supervisor’s
Orders on the Upper Tellico Off-Highway Vehicle (OHV) Area in Cherokee
County, North Carolina. This OHV area, located 15 miles north of Murphy on
the
North Carolina/Tennessee state line, includes approximately 38 miles of
existing
roads and trails that are managed for motorized recreation use. The following
actions are being proposed:

1. A Forest Supervisor’s Order prohibiting motorized vehicles on Lower
Trail
# 2, Trail # 7, and Trail # 9, duration of order not to exceed one year or
until a reasonable plan is in place to prevent adverse impacts to the aquatic
resource.
2. A Forest Supervisor’s Order prohibiting winter-time motorized vehicle
use
on the Upper Tellico OHV Trail System from January 1 to March 31 each year.
This would include all trails in the system except Trail # 1 and the upper
section of Trail # 2 which would remain open as system roads used by vehicle
types normally found on public roads.

The following persons would be exempted from these orders:

• Persons with a permit from the Forest Service specifically authorizing
the
otherwise prohibited act or omission.
• Any Federal, State, or local officer, or member of an organized rescue or
firefighting force in the performance of an official duty.
• Owners or lessees of land in the Closure Area are exempt from the
prohibitions listed above to the extent necessary to gain access to their
land.
• Residents in the Closure Area are exempt from the prohibitions to the
extent necessary to gain access to their residences.

PURPOSE AND NEED FOR THE PROPOSED ACTIONS

These actions are needed to correct and/or repair ongoing impacts to the
aquatic resource caused by sediment entering area waters from the Tellico
trail
system.

Action # 1, prohibitions on Lower Trail # 2, Trail # 7, and Trail #9, is
needed to provide immediate short-term resource protection measures. The
greatest impact to area waters is coming from the movement of sediment off
these
three trails, as indicated by observation and on-site measurements of
turbidity
and suspended sediment concentrations.

Action # 2, winter-time closure of the OHV Area, is needed to provide
resource protection. Forest Service personnel have observed that most of the
damage
to the trail tread occurs during the winter freeze/thaw period from January
to late March, at which time soils are subject to increased rutting and
displacement.

These actions would implement direction in the Nantahala and Pisgah National
Forests Land and Resource Management Plan to emphasize protection of
perennial and intermittent streams in compliance with North Carolina Forest
Practice
Guidelines Related to Water Quality.

The actions would be implemented pursuant to 36 CFR 261.50 (b) which states,
“The Chief, each Regional Forester, each Experiment Station Director, the
Administrator of the Lake Tahoe Basin Management Unit and each Forest
Supervisor may issue orders which close or restrict the use of any National
Forest
System road or trail within the area over which he has jurisdiction.”

Before a final decision is made I welcome your comments. Please make your
comments as specific as possible along with supporting reasons why you
believe
your comments should be considered. Please include your name and address in
any correspondence.

Your comments may be sent to Tusquitee District Ranger, 123 Woodland Drive,
Murphy, NC 28906. Comments may also be sent via email to
_comments-southern-north-carolina-nantahala-tusquitee@fs.fed.us_
(mailto:comments-southern-north-carolina-nantahala-tusquitee@fs.fed.us)

We would appreciate receiving your comments by October 17, 2007.

Thank you for your time and interest in our management activities on the
Tusquitee Ranger District.

Sincerely,

/s/ Tina R. Tilley, Acting District Ranger
TINA R. TILLEY, Acting District Ranger


So there it is. Now, let me explain the process they are following and what
may or may not happen.

A "Notice of Supervisor's Order" is the first step in their process to enact
new “Supervisor’s Orders” for an this action. The Letter is used to
notify
potentially interested parties of a proposed action and to solicit comments
on the proposed action and its Purpose and Need. The action here is defined
by
them as:


“A Forest Supervisor’s Order prohibiting motorized vehicles on Lower
Trail
# 2, Trail # 7, and Trail # 9, duration of order not to exceed one year or
until a reasonable plan is in place to prevent adverse impacts to the aquatic
resource.

A Forest Supervisor’s Order prohibiting winter-time motorized vehicle use
on
the Upper Tellico OHV Trail System from January 1 to March 31 each year.
This would include all trails in the system except Trail # 1 and the upper
section of Trail # 2 which would remain open as system roads used by vehicle
types
normally found on public roads.”
A proposed action is worthless if its purpose and need is not good. In this
case, they are saying that these "closures" are "needed to correct and/or
repair ongoing impacts to the aquatic resource caused by sediment entering
area
waters from the Tellico trail system." They go on to say:


“Action # 1, prohibitions on Lower Trail # 2, Trail # 7, and Trail #9, is
needed to provide immediate short-term resource protection measures. The
greatest impact to area waters is coming from the movement of sediment off
these
three trails, as indicated by observation and on-site measurements of
turbidity
and suspended sediment concentrations.

Action # 2, winter-time closure of the OHV Area, is needed to provide
resource protection. Forest Service personnel have observed that most of the
damage
to the trail tread occurs during the winter freeze/thaw period from January
to late March, at which time soils are subject to increased rutting and
displacement."
They can basically just say “close it” or “don’t close it.”

OK, so they have proposed their action and purpose and need and are asking
for comments. We need to provide those comments to them. This is where you
come in.

SFWDA is working on a template letter that you can use to provide your
comments. Of course, you don’t have to follow the template, but if you
choose to
provide your own comments, please do so with the following guidance in mind:

* Be professional, courteous, and do not be angry or aggressive in your
tone.
* Please use the spell check feature on your computer. Misspellings
make you look stupid.
* Please address the action at hand. Do not go on a rant about the “
greenies” who you think are forcing this action. Be succinct and to the
point
about how this action is going to effect you and why you think the Forest
Service should not close the trails. Be persuasive and do not ramble.
* Please provide them with alternatives to trail closure. The Forest
Service did not propose any alternatives other than closure. What about
temporarily rerouting trails? What about installing more erosion controls?
* Please question their science and observations. The Forest Service
did not provide any scientific data in their letter to prove that their “
observations and measurements” are true. They also did not provide the
analysis
that they used to determine that there even is any “impact” to the area.
They
are assuming there is an impact.
* Please be sure to be clear that you do not support this action and
wish to be added to the list of interested parties to receive updated
information regarding any action at the Upper Tellico Off-Highway Vehicle
(ORV) Area.

Comments should be either emailed or mailed to:

Tusquitee District Ranger
23 Woodland Drive
Murphy, NC 28906
_comments-southern-north-carolina-nantahala-tusquitee@fs.fed.us_
(mailto:comments-southern-north-carolina-nantahala-tusquitee@fs.fed.us)

[k9crazy]

THE TEMPLATE LETTER IS DONE: CLICK HERE ----> http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7291766&postcount=75

[thumping]

THE TEMPLATE LETTER IS DONE: CLICK HERE ----> http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7291766&postcount=75

Heather, thank you. I did notice in the template that it refers to upper 2 instead of lower 2 for trail closers. I think the wording needs to be accurate...unless it already is.

Again, thank you.

[k9crazy]

Heather, thank you. I did notice in the template that it refers to upper 2 instead of lower 2 for trail closers. I think the wording needs to be accurate...unless it already is.

Again, thank you.

You are right! I edited it to say LOWER #2. Good catch. There's a lot to keep track of here, and sometimes things get a little boggled up!

[tellico_rocks]

(PLEASE DO THIS ASAP) As the post above stated, we need to do all we can to let the Forest Service to know how the public feels. Please send all comments and letters to our local district ranger to Tusquitee District Ranger, 123 Woodland Dr., Murphy N.C. 28906. Please be professional when writing these letters. Also help us out by donating to SFWDA. We donated over $20k Sat. night at the Dixie Run. Please please please do all you can to help us out.. Thanks Tellico Rocks

[KiGrind]

A lot of money was made last night just calling out on the club's attending, only took like 10mins too. :eek: Dunno about the whole cheer though. :laughing:

[jeepguru7]

Last I heard over 25K was raised Saturday night at the raffle just in the 15 minutes they were asking for donations, that does not include the raffle, silent auction and other proceeds earmarked for SFWDA. :D

[KiGrind]

Last I heard over 25K was raised Saturday night at the raffle just in the 15 minutes they were asking for donations, that does not include the raffle, silent auction and other proceeds earmarked for SFWDA. :D

Yes, that was impressive. The comment about midgets in there piggy banks was classic in my book. :laughing: