Plastic Bags not a Final Solution

[randii]

At the meeting last week, Lance mentioned packing poo out in plastic bags contained in an ammo can. I like this solution (ammo cans are exceptionally well-sealed, generally) with the exception of the plastic bags. Human waste is one class of waste, and plastic bags are another (one decomposes, the other doesn't) -- ideally, you should avoid mixing these, since you make the human waste unfit for disposal in standard fashion (plastic clogs up sewage treatment plants) and a landfill won't knowingly accept human waste (though they'll take plastic).

Definitely don't dump your plastic bags in the dumpster at Loon -- one bag, if found, can get the whole truckload of garbage black-flagged at the landfill. Even more important -- don't dump your plastic bags into the vault toilets at Loon -- that sort of thing WILL make a mess of the pumper truck that comes to service that facility, and that'll really add to the cost to the Forest Service.

I haven't researched far into it, but I believe that wax-treated paper pags exist that can be processed in a sewage plant and decompose easily. The trick is to have a bag that's stabile enough to handle the initial transition from butt to temporary storage bin (less than a half hour for most) but then breaks down rapidly after.

Don't be discouraged, though -- even with mixed waste, that's a start, as long as it doesn't wind up staying on the trail. We gotta make an effort, and we can learn as we go... ( so to speak :p )

Randii

[Rubicrawler]

Burying the waste and burning or hauling the paper out? I was taught as a kid (yes, many moons ago) that you bury your waste 8-12" deep and dispose of the paper properly. Is this unacceptable today? I know, that if you're on granite it's impossible so hauling out the waste is necessary.

[randii]

What's wrong with burying the waste and burning or hauling the paper out?
The problem is the scale of usage that the Rubicon gets these days, and the concentrated number of users -- that and all the idgits who can't clean up afetr themselves, but that's a whole 'nother topic, I 'spoze. All the users that we have, even if they did dig proper catholes, would quickly fill the land within a hundred feet of the trail on each side -- and especially in camp areas like Spider lake, this gets intensified. Add in the sparse soil distribution amongst slabs of practically impenetrable granite, and we have a problem.

Kudos to your folks for instilling good habits in you long ago, and to you for not taking thelazy way out, with the poop-wipe-and-leave-it-all uncovered approach that many users perform. Years ago, digging catholes was a responsible way to take care of business on the Rubicon. Times have changed, though, and our hobby needs to change with them.

Randii

[Rubicrawler]

Randy- Your point is well taken. I hadn't taken into account the overwhelming numbers of users in the more popular destinations (i.e.- Spider Lake, Buck Island, etc) I guess we all need to be re-trained and educated as to the latest techniques in waste recovery and disposal.

[Lance]

Randy, check out the sticky shit thread in this forum. There are some cool bags that break the poop down into a nontoxic landfill safe substance. Problem is, they aren't cheap. About $1.50-2.00 per poop. Not bad, really, but it would be TOUGH to convince the masses to buy into that. Im wondering how tough it would be to make our own bags? Figuring out what the chemicals they are using, and make our own for cheap.... Now THAT would be cool!!

[kidwired]

so wut about lime?
I just bought a 50lb bag this weekend

[Jeepndel]

We are looking into a couple different bag types, landfill safe pack it out deals. The Pett is a toilet that has the bags that are landfill safe, when full even. A club can buy one.
check out www.delalbright.com/rubicon_sanitation.htm

We must start packing it out this summer. Now. We've got to show the control agency types that we can help our own problem.
Del

[steveh]

The Pett looks very good! Thanks Del!

[Crowdog]

Originally posted by Rubicrawler
Burying the waste and burning or hauling the paper out? I was taught as a kid (yes, many moons ago) that you bury your waste 8-12" deep and dispose of the paper properly. Is this unacceptable today? I know, that if you're on granite it's impossible so hauling out the waste is necessary.

The other issue is finding enough areas around Spider lake that you could actually dig down 8"-12".

Jon

[Jeepndel]

The fact is, Spider is nearly impossible to do anything with as far as leech fields, holes, pits, etc. We've got to have a solution that is unique. For sure, packing it out (safely and environmentally sound) is the way to handle it this summer. The Pett is one solution. the Bumper Dumper and other type pack it out toilets is another.

We are still testing the Rubi-can idea too (ammo can).
But I'm thinking that each club/group, should buy one of these spendy, but land fill safe toilets and take it with.

It hurts our future to have trash and human waste left behind when we wheel. WE are the solution.
Del

[Joe V]

When my Father in law tent camps at Glamis he brings a little porta potty, this little porta potty holds enough dung for him and his two 6' teenage sons.

The fluid in this porta potty breaks down the waste and eliminates the foul smells associated with storing the waste. When he gets home he just pours it all down the bathroom toilet.
Clean, easy and simple.

Personally, I would just rather bring my shovel and TP to the trail, but after reading about this human waste issue, that method is no longer acceptable. When I come up to the Rubicon this summer I'm going to look into bringing a 2.5 gallon plastic drum with a lid that's 1/2 full of the chemical that's in the porta potty's. Space is tight so a 2.5gal container would work. I might even be a hero and make a little custom seat for my wife.

Nobody likes hauling a container of human crap around with them but I see no other appealing alternative right now.

Something like this might even help with the Surprise Canyon issues.

[nasvik]

With all due respect to the sensitivity of this issue, I don't understand why plastic bags are a problem. I'm thinking of all the dogs and their owners here in San Francisco. Every walk they take the owner cleans up the poop, puts it in whatever plastic bag they carried and deposit it in a convenient trash bag. Many parks have these bags available for dog owners.

Am I missing something? Dog poop is ok and people poop isn't?

Paul

[kidwired]

hi paul, its the disposal of the plastic bags thats the problem, i dont think your suposed to put human waste in your trash can. aqnd you cant flush plastic bags down your toilet.

i really dont like the idea of a bucket of crap sloshing around in my rig, sooner or l8r its going to poor down my neck :barf:

[The Rockslut]

Originally posted by kidwired
sooner or l8r its going to poor down my neck :barf:

Why does it matter? Its already oozing out your ears :flipoff2:

[Monkeyboy]

In addition to Nasviks dog poop disposal disposal VS. Human poop disposal comment.

How is it OK to toss Baby diapers into the trash????

I've never known a dumpster to get black flagged at the dump for having a baby diaper with doo doo in it.
Whats the difference between baby poop and Off Road Recreationalist poop???

[Dan-H]

Originally posted by Monkeyboy
Whats the difference between baby poop and Off Road Recreationalist poop???

Baby poop smell worse :barf:

Dan (been changing diapers for the last 2 years)

[kidwired]

good point monkyface, dunno

dan right there buddy, i have been sentenced to 4 yrs of hard diaper duty. my daughter 4 is potty trained but sone 18 mos has got a ways to go.