Since the last thread on this topic turned into a hissy-fit about tieing the trailer brakes into the truck's brake system, I'll start it over.
With dually trailer axles running over a grand a peice, This may be an attractive option.
I think it can be done safely. I'm thinking about Dana 60's or 70's since they're cheap/easy to find, and if I'm not mistaken, 14 bolts have a slightly larger hub diameter, which means none of my current stock of rims would fit a 14 bolt.(I could be wrong on this.)
One would simply pitch the axle shafts, drill out the plug welds holding the steel tubes in the cast iron housing, and put the heat to the casting and "sweat" the tubes free.
You would need to find heavy wall tube with an I.D that's exactly the same as the O.D. of the axle tubes.
Here's the first real question that needs to be answered; How far do you sleeve the tubes?
Do you sleeve up to the spring perches, or do you remove the old spring perches, and sleeve right up to the backing plates?
Next question; How much of the axle tube do you really need inside the sleeve? I'd say you'd only need enough to go about 4" inside the new spring perches.
To my thinking, the heavy stress area of the axle is from the spring perches to the wheel bearings. The center part of the axle really doesn't get near the strain of the ends.
I'm pretty sure that 1/4" wall tube would be more than enough for the sleeve, as long as the sleeve went from backing plate to backing plate, and the axle tubes extended a few inches inside the new spring perches.
Now, on to brakes.
The stock drum brakes would do a fine job, when set up in an electric over hydraulic system, but would the adjusters work properly in the absence of the parking brake system?
I know you can replace the rear drums with a set of front rotors, and have disc brakes, but will this setup fit inside a dually wheel?
I'm just kicking this idea around while I'm searching for used dexter axles, but it sounds plausible to me.

GM uses the smallest hubs. Ford/Dodge wheels fit GM, but not the other way.

14b tubes have a goofy neckdown right at the chunk. I would simply cut the tubes with a chopsaw or bandsaw.

I'm planning to do something similar with a 14b for my utility trailer. :smokin:

As for the brake setup to use.... no idea what will work.

Use the drum brakes already on it and run electric over hydraulic.

Why would you go to all that effort when you could just buy either a used axle and only use the end parts or just buy tube, spindle and hubs? Ditching the diff and sleeving to tube seems like a lot of work.

Travis - any info on the elec/hydro brakes ? I had pondered making a simple level, arm assebly using generic brake magnets and a cheep aftermarket type master.. etc..

I have a pair of cut off 14b tubes ive been saving up for a budget offroad beater trailer, haul gravel, etc..

Why would you go to all that effort when you could just buy either a used axle and only use the end parts or just buy tube, spindle and hubs? Ditching the diff and sleeving to tube seems like a lot of work.
Probably cause as he said right in the start of the post. NEW axles are 1K or more each. 14B or D60/D70's are free lots of times. And the work involved depends on what you value your time at. For me recently, time is money and its worth it to me to buy something ready to go than to mess with it, for others, time is free and they can save a shit load of cash fabing it themselves.


Plus he also stated that he WAS looking for a used axle or something, but so far no luck.


The mechanics sound feasible, and they work not that tough (people sleeve and narrow axles for wheeling rigs all the time, this would be easier). I would also just cut the tubes off rather than try to salvage that extra 2-3" in the center section.

I would wonder about the camber they put in axles and if it would be required or something that one should look into. I'd also wonder if the electric over hydraulic controller would make the money saved on the axles a wash...


Take pictures if your do it :D

Travis - any info on the elec/hydro brakes ? I had pondered making a simple level, arm assebly using generic brake magnets and a cheep aftermarket type master.. etc..

I have a pair of cut off 14b tubes ive been saving up for a budget offroad beater trailer, haul gravel, etc..

Considering the following link is a marine site, I'm betting the actuators can be found cheaper.

http://shop.easternmarine.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog.catalog&categoryID=309

Now, I've never looked at a setup like this, I don't know if there are more parts involved or how you adjust how much the brakes come on, etc. etc.

Travis - any info on the elec/hydro brakes ? I had pondered making a simple level, arm assebly using generic brake magnets and a cheep aftermarket type master.. etc..

I have a pair of cut off 14b tubes ive been saving up for a budget offroad beater trailer, haul gravel, etc..

Considering the following link is a marine site, I'm betting the actuators can be found cheaper.

http://shop.easternmarine.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog.prodInfo&productID=6352&categoryID=309

Probably cause as he said right in the start of the post. NEW axles are 1K or more each. 14B or D60/D70's are free lots of times. And the work involved depends on what you value your time at. For me recently, time is money and its worth it to me to buy something ready to go than to mess with it, for others, time is free and they can save a shit load of cash fabing it themselves.I read that. But if you took a 14 bolt, cut off the ends, bought a piece of 3" dom welded on a backing plate and bolted up all the old stuff, you would only be into it for the cost of the tube which you would be into it anyway for the sleeving material and have saved yourself a butt load of time. Throw that dom into a 20 ton press and put some camber in it and ta da! In to it for less than 100 bucks plus maybe cost of the axle and I'm betting substantially less time. Think of how much time it's going to take him to get that center section off. :laughing: But don't ask me, I don't know anything.

I read that. But if you took a 14 bolt, cut off the ends, bought a piece of 3" dom welded on a backing plate and bolted up all the old stuff, you would only be into it for the cost of the tube which you would be into it anyway for the sleeving material and have saved yourself a butt load of time. Throw that dom into a 20 ton press and put some camber in it and ta da! In to it for less than 100 bucks plus maybe cost of the axle and I'm betting substantially less time. Think of how much time it's going to take him to get that center section off. :laughing: But don't ask me, I don't know anything.
Maybe I'm dense,(it happens to geniuses from time to time) are you tslking about simply butt welding the backing plates to the sleeve? Or simply cutting the tubes off, instead of separating the tubes from the chunk?
The second Idea I kind of eluded to, when I said you'd only need the tubes to go inboard of the new spring perches by about 4".

I think he means,
1) cut just the 14b spindles off the ends of the axle
2) weld it to new tube
3) bend the tube some for camber
4) weld on backing plate mounts to re attach the stock 14b backing plates..

I wouldn't just butt weld it, I'd have the tubes inside the sleeve, at least inboard of the spring perches.
I have years of experience loading high tonnage on axles, and I just don't think a butt welded joint would stand up to the kind of use I'd put it through.
I agree that using the entire tube isn't the best idea, but there needs to be some overlap.

Ok, I just went back to re-read this.

Personally... I'de just use the 14B as is.

Ok, I just went back to re-read this.

Personally... I'de just use the 14B as is.
For a commercial carrier, Differentials in a trailer axle is a big no-no.

I have years of experience completely overloading high tonnage on axles, and I just don't think a butt welded joint would stand up to the kind of use I'd put it through.


What you meant to say. I never said to do a butt joint. Merely offering alternate methods.

sterling spindles chopped off with 4-6 inches of tube, lathe turned to fit into sch 80 pipe

chevy rotors, calipers and elec/hydraulic brake unit

I read that. But if you took a 14 bolt, cut off the ends, bought a piece of 3" dom welded on a backing plate and bolted up all the old stuff, you would only be into it for the cost of the tube which you would be into it anyway for the sleeving material and have saved yourself a butt load of time. Throw that dom into a 20 ton press and put some camber in it and ta da! In to it for less than 100 bucks plus maybe cost of the axle and I'm betting substantially less time. Think of how much time it's going to take him to get that center section off. :laughing: But don't ask me, I don't know anything.

My bad. I misinterpreted your post. I thought you were telling him to just buy trailer axle parts. I see now you were talking about building a 14B.



*I* would be more comfortable with the sleeving idea as well, even though I know stock axles are just butt welded.... sleaving just seems safer unless you REALLY trust your welding (and for commercial work, trail-junk is another matter).


I will reiterated though that for sleaving, I would just cut at the chunk, ton less work than trying to remove the tubes out of the diff.

I know I posted this in another thread, but a buddy of mine built one like that about 4 years back, 14 bolt dually axles, with 13x3 brakes on them. I don't recall if he retubed them, or just ran them as is(I believe retubed them) I know he ran a vaccum over hydraulic setup(around a grand) from redneck trailer, and said it would lock up all 8 tires with this (http://photos-345.ak.facebook.com/ip002/v67/141/44/6602894/n6602894_30681345_7378.jpg) load on it.

For a commercial carrier, Differentials in a trailer axle is a big no-no.

you wouldnt have to use the diff. remove the diff,pinion housing and shafts. bolt the cover back on,make a cover to seal up the front of the hosing where the pinion bolted on. make a cover for the hubs where the axleshafts bolted on.

you could then pack the wheel bearings,or make a fill plug on your hub cover so you can squirt in some gear lube. i used to flat tow my jeep with the shafts out of the rear 14 bolt and thats what i did. put on the cover,pull the plug,fill with gear oil :)

removing the tubes in order to not have a diff sounds like alot of unneccesary work to me,unless the WMS is wrong for the trailer your building.

I would sleeve at least twice the diameter on each side of the spliceand I would have two sets of rosette plugs offset from each other 90deg or so on each side. This will effectively create 4 shear pins on each side of the splice plus the full circumference weld.

I'd look into elec over hydro brakes so any vehicle can tow the trailer should the need arise...


:usa:

Yeah, electric over hydraulic will really be my only option. It helps that it's the best option at any rate. All my trucks are/will be set up the same, so trailer interchangeability isn't an issue.
"Any vehicle" won't be able to pull my trailers. I tried to use my 3/4 ton just to spot my empty trailer, and it almost put the bumper on the ground.

So you have between 4 and 6k of tongue weight?

Right around there. I've never weighed the truck without the trailer to find out what the trailer adds to the ball when empty.
I know with 1/4 tank of fuel, and an empty trailer, with the dodge, I weigh 18,760#. I'd have to grab the scale ticket out of the truck to remember exactly what my axle weights are when empty.

I guess I'm missing it too, why exactly can you not leave the axle as it is? Maybe go more in depth than just saying it's a big no-no.
:confused:

The D.O.T. doesn't have to explain why. Honestly, I don't know. I do know that they're not wide enough for my purpose, so I'll have to stretch them anyway.
If you pull into a weigh station, and you have differentials under a trailer, they put you out of service. They won't say a damned thing about mobile home axles, but no truck axles.
I've given up trying to understand the D.O.T. regs. I just comply with them. (Most of the time!:smokin:)