Mud Pit Repairs???

[Rubicrawler]

On our Memorial Day trip we noticed two, very larger and mostly impassable, mud pits. The first is located at the bottom of Walker Hill and the second is located just beyond Walker Rock. The bank at the exit of both of these pits is more than 4' high and virtually impassable causing trail user to "find a way around them". This has caused a lot of damage to the areas, especially the area at the bottom of Walker Hill where 2 seperate bypasses now exist.

What can be done to restore these areas? Our group discussed filling the pits with river rock, etc. Did anyone else notice these areas as being a problem? This may be a job for FOTR :) Any ideas?

[Scout Dude]

Yeah, I noticed the new edition at the bottom of Walker's this year...mostly cause our unlucky vehicle that we had with us blew out another side wall going into this pit:(

And of course, the Idiots behind us decided to drive WAY around:mad: instead of waiting 2 minutes for us to get out of the way.

I'd be more than happy to go up and help refill the pits to avoid further destruction of the trail (Providing the ol' Lady doesn't have something scheduled for the date that you choose:D )

Lemme know,

Joel

[Rubicrawler]

Thanks Joel! Sounds like we have the start of a work crew.

How can we fill a hole without disturbing the surrounding area?

[RCKRATZ]

why can't you just haul some rock in from somewhere else:confused:

[Scout Dude]

Originally posted by RCKRATZ
why can't you just haul some rock in from somewhere else:confused:

Well, I suppose that we could..but I think that it would be easier to just pull the loose rocks from Walker's to fill the hole...Hopefully there is enough to a least make the hole passable. I dunno...I'm just making suggestions.

[Rubicrawler]

Originally posted by RCKRATZ
why can't you just haul some rock in from somewhere else:confused:

The pits in question are 20-30 feet long and 3-4 feet deep. That's a lot of rock:eek: The rock would have to be trucked or trailered in. Don't get me wrong, I think rock IS the answer. Logistics will be difficult.

[RCKRATZ]

I was just thinking that with some trailers, it would be alot easier then moving rocks off of Walker......the trail to that point really is not difficult at all. You just want to fill the bottom of it, right?

[randii]

I haven't been up there yet this year, so these general suggestions may not work for that particular spot:
1.) consider digging a trench to drain the pit downhill -- that'll make any repair more stable by draining initially and trapping less water subsequently. Most every significant mud puddle on the trail deserves this, IMHO.
2.) Walker Hill has substantial amounts of large cobble on it. Move some of this cobble downhill into the depression that holds the water.
3.) For steeply-banked mudpits, look to the sides and downhill of the pit to find the soil that has been thrown out by spinning tires. Shoveling this back into the hole, especially when combined with 1.) and 2.) will help fill it.
4.) Use shovels to decrease the entry and exit slopes (those perpendicular with the direction of the trail) of the pit, and shovel any of the dirt you remove into the ends of the hole. This will result in an effective ramp to get vehicles in and out of the hole, and should help avoid bypass-blazing.

Regarding bypass-blazing, hauling some brush or deadwood trees close to the side of the trail can help force traffic to stay on the trail. There's a camp area to the right of Walker Hill, if you are standing at its base and looking up, where there was a couple pretty substantial downed trees late last season... if they haven't been chopped up for firewood, they'd make excellent 'guard rails.'

Kudos, Mark and Joel, for stepping up to do something about this. IMHO, we need to make an effort sooner rather than later -- waiting until the annual fall cleanup will only allow the trail to degrade in the meantime. We're not talking about pouring cement or blasting boulders, here, we're talking about small efforts to drain a mudhole, fill it a bit, and mitigate steep slopes on its exit, all to keep traffic focused on the main part of the trail. Other spots on the Rubicon are in question as to where the main trail is, but Walker Hill is dead simple.

Randii (longwinded, as usual)

[Rubicrawler]

Randy's right! The pits are only going to get worse and, IMO, they can't wait for the POR clean-up in October. We need to do the repairs this month!

That being said, let start a list of person's willing to dedicate a weekend to the Rubicon! Joel and I have said we will do it. I would guess that we would need 10-20 workers at each site. Jobs would entail back filling the pits with rock and dirt and bypass blocking. Depending on the number of good volunteers, we may have to attack the problem one pit at a time.

Del, do we need permission from USFS for an operation such as this? Is this something that is worthy of calling on FOTR for assistance?

So, who's willing to give something back to the trail that we all know and love? I'm not sure which weekend would be best, so please include which dates would be best for you and we'll work it out.

I'm looking forward to working with you on this project :)

[Scout Dude]

Well, I have a wedding to go to on the 15th (not mine..I'm still alive for 3 more months:D )...other than that..I'm pretty much free. However, I am very close to actually having a 4 wheel drive vehicle to take up there. If we do it later in the month, I can get myself there, if it's sooner, then I may need a ride.

[Rubicrawler]

Ok- how about June 22nd and 23rd? Plan to start work around 8:00-9:00am?

[The Rockslut]

I am the one getting married on the 15th and will be on my honey moon until the next weekend. How about June 29th and 30th? Very close to the 4th of July but if we can fill in the holes before the 4th of July rush it would be benificial.

I will nomiate my Jeep for going and getting rocks that we can back fill with. I say taking some from the bottom of Walkers is fine. We can drive around and get rock from other spots too instead of completely deleting all the rocks from one spot. I dont think that drainage will be possible in these locations. By knocking down the edges and then backfilling with rocks should provide plenty of ease on these spots.

[jdjanda]

Originally posted by Scout Dude
However, I am very close to actually having a 4 wheel drive vehicle to take up there.

:rolleyes:

I'd be willing if it's a day trip, head in early, or on a Friday evening and out Sat evening, I doubt I have a whole weekend in the next 30 days. I could also do a week day gig, head in Thursday evening, work Friday and out on Sat. Let me know, I signed up for the FOTR email list.

Joe

[jdjanda]

How about logs from downed trees, could that also be used to form a border and crossing to prevent further damage?

[Rubicrawler]

Originally posted by jdjanda




I'd be willing if it's a day trip, head in early, or on a Friday evening and out Sat evening,

Joe

I'm sure that would work :)

[Dan-H]

Originally posted by Rubicrawler
So, who's willing to give something back to the trail that we all know and love? I'm not sure which weekend would be best, so please include which dates would be best for you and we'll work it out.


I'm all for setting up a work day, but another alternative is to get everyone involved now and get this started ASAP.

If everyone moved one rock on the way up and back to spider how long till the pit is filled in?

If the pit is 30x6x4 it is needs about 26 yards of fill. From a rock perspective, about 1500 rocks the size of your head.

How many people were up at spider last weekend? If everyone moved just one rock it would be well on its way.

Del - We need a green light to relocate rocks along the trail. to fill this pit. After that takes communication and peer encouragement can hopefully do the trick.

Don't get me wrong, Im all for a organized work day or two on the trail, but something like this seems like it could be done ad-hoc and quickly if we get the users of the trail to pitch in.

- Dan

[Rubicrawler]

Originally posted by The Rockslut
I am the one getting married on the 15th and will be on my honey moon until the next weekend. How about June 29th and 30th? Very close to the 4th of July but if we can fill in the holes before the 4th of July rush it would be benificial.

I will nomiate my Jeep for going and getting rocks that we can back fill with. I say taking some from the bottom of Walkers is fine. We can drive around and get rock from other spots too instead of completely deleting all the rocks from one spot. I dont think that drainage will be possible in these locations. By knocking down the edges and then backfilling with rocks should provide plenty of ease on these spots.

That weekend would work too :) Just as you said, as long as we get to it before the 4th of July rush.

I think RCRC has a run that weekend. We'll need to provide a suitable bypass around our work site. That could be a tough one.

[The Rockslut]

gotta be a weekend for me. Taken too much time off work already. If on a weekend I may be able to bring in at least 2 more Jeeps and at least 4 more people to help. Between Scout Dude and I that would be 4 rigs and about 6 people. That would be better than nothing. Lets do this!

[Rubicrawler]

Dan- I like the way you think! I still think a work party is needed but how can we get the masses started?

[Rubicrawler]

Originally posted by The Rockslut
gotta be a weekend for me. Taken too much time off work already. If on a weekend I may be able to bring in at least 2 more Jeeps and at least 4 more people to help. Between Scout Dude and I that would be 4 rigs and about 6 people. That would be better than nothing. Lets do this!

Me too! But those that can only make it for Saturday are more than welcome. Hell- if we get a good turn-out, we'll be done on Saturday!

[The Rockslut]

Well even if there is a run that weekend they will have to stop for a little bit. If they are cool they would pitch in and help us to move more rock and speed up the process. We should be able to round up enough people to get this done in a 5-6 hour process.

I dont think the entire mud pit needs to be filled in. Just he very ends need a 1-2' base and knock down the 90* lip of dirt at the top. This would speed things up drastically.

There is also a large hole that is new this season before Walkers hill. I made it through no problem but have 40" tires and full width axles. We should fill that area also. It is much smaller and still has plenty of rocks near by to fill with.

[Rubicrawler]

The RCRC gang is a great group. I had the pleasure of attending one of their club meetings and they have a good organization. I'm sure they will be curtious and lend a hand if they can :)

[Dan-H]

Originally posted by The Rockslut
Well even if there is a run that weekend they will have to stop for a little bit.

Exactly!! and its a perfect time to enlist new FOTR members.

Also, anyone pitching in, take some pics and post them.

[Rubicrawler]

So, it looks like the work day is Saturday, June 29th. Now, we just need hard working volunteers and a blessing from Del :)

[The Rockslut]

Originally posted by Dan-H


Exactly!! and its a perfect time to enlist new FOTR members.

Also, anyone pitching in, take some pics and post them.


OK, i'll admit it. I am a friend of the rubicon but not an enlisted one :emb: Can I someone provide the link so that I (and anyone that is not enlisted and should be) can go and sign up?

[Rubicrawler]

Originally posted by The Rockslut


There is also a large hole that is new this season before Walkers hill. I made it through no problem but have 40" tires and full width axles. We should fill that area also. It is much smaller and still has plenty of rocks near by to fill with.

This is one of the holes I was thinking about. Right at the base of the hill, right? I think it should be first priority because of the two bypass trails that are now being used.

[Rubicrawler]

Originally posted by The Rockslut



OK, i'll admit it. I am a friend of the rubicon but not an enlisted one :emb: Can I someone provide the link so that I (and anyone that is not enlisted and should be) can go and sign up?

Here ya go :)

http://www.delalbright.com/rubicon.htm

[The Rockslut]

Actually no, this hole is quite a ways before walkers. It is just like the hole at the base of walkers though, heavily wooded area with lots of dirt. On my way in (Saturday) Memorial day weekend it was about a 2.5' climb. I had to go back into walkers hill Sunday morning and it was 3' and growing. This makes 3 spots total that need to be "ramped". The first hole is small area but there is two seperate holes in this area that are tough. I can already see that people that cant make it WILL drive around making a new bypass. This is just after the little creek (Not Ellis Creek).

[Rubicrawler]

I know the spot you're talking about. After the creek and there's a wide spot there. And you're right it got much deeper in the three days I was there.

[Aggro]

Man this thread moved fast. MARK, you read my mind on this topic! I planned to use logs laid in the hole parallel to the flow of traffic. Then use rock. There are lots of dead and downed trees in the area. Lay 'em in and fill over them. They work great. Once the trail dries each year these holes don't continue to get worse, but sooner is better. Also, we do need to divert the drainage to the side of the trail. Just like on fireroads, water diversion dams along the road really minimize water runoff damage. On the bottom of walker, there is a natural creek 10 feet over (on the left if facing uphill) If the area wasn't rutted this would be the natural drainage. Also on my personal target list for the summer is the few creek crossings brefore walker. The fallen trees that have been removed in the past have just been cut and laid parallel to the trail causing the water to pool up and help to erode the soil when people drive thru. If we pull the trees out of the water flow the creek will be a creek again, not a standing pool of water for the people to cross and erode further. At any rate- I will be there.

[Aggro]

As for the link above... I tried to join a while back and eventually my email was returned, saying undeliverable.

[66CJdean]

To me all that needs to be done is put some rock on the exit of the pit so that it doesn't keep migrating further. Filling the pits back up would be great but it is not going to happen IMHO. So if we fill the ends with rock that would give you a firm bottom and a ramp to drive out on. These show up every year but as it drys out the edges get knocked down and the bottom get ramped so they are not problem but we need to address this because the one at the bottom grew an unbeleiveable amount. Lets plan a weekend soon to do some work on this. I'll be up there the 15/16th with lots of people from far-n-gone that could help move in some rock.

[The Rockslut]

I know exactly the spot that Aggro is talking about and that should be an easy 30 minute fix. Pull the logs out on the low side of the trail and boom, no more pond to drive through. That would be the first item to fix and we can just work our way up to walkers hill. A water diversion at teh bottom of walkers would be best but is going to take a lot of work. We will need a lot of people for this.

[Rubicrawler]

Originally posted by Aggro
Man this thread moved fast. MARK, you read my mind on this topic! I will be there.


I knew I could count on you! We can no longer sit back and do nothing. We must band together and maintain OUR TRAIL! :beatingdrum:

[Monkeyboy]

I can help on whatever weekend is selected.

Like Dean mentioned these holes need rocks placed on the ramped ends that keep getting dug out.

Also drainage needs to be setup if possible to try to keep the water from pooling up in this area if possible.

If my XJ is not ready for the trail I might need to hitch a ride with Mark or Joe.

[SeanP]

I'm in. If we have enough crew, I will sponsor a pony keg. Joel, let me know if you want a ride up there, you can have my pass seat.

SeanP

[66CJdean]

I have put out an e-mail to the club that this is something I want to work on on are trip up there the 15th. I don't know how much will be done with the people I have but I at least want to get in a few hours on it and get this ball rolling. So far it looks as though we should be at Walker by 12 noon on that Saturday and if we get more people then we can start branching out to the other spots that need attention like that streem x-ing the Aggro mentioned, placing barriers to keep people from taking by-passes in some of these spots, and looking into making a way for the water to get out of the small lake just after Ellis on the Walker side.

[Rubicrawler]

Dean- that would be great! Then we could follow on the 29th to complete what you had started. A real team effort!

[SeanP]

Originally posted by 66CJdean
I have put out an e-mail to the club that this is something I want to work on on are trip up there the 15th. I don't know how much will be done with the people I have but I at least want to get in a few hours on it and get this ball rolling. So far it looks as though we should be at Walker by 12 noon on that Saturday and if we get more people then we can start branching out to the other spots that need attention like that streem x-ing the Aggro mentioned, placing barriers to keep people from taking by-passes in some of these spots, and looking into making a way for the water to get out of the small lake just after Ellis on the Walker side.

Dean, I'll be up with Tom Jurach that weekend. Count on me to help out. I'll see if I can track down a couple of big pry bars.

SeanP

[Whitewater]

You guys finalize a date and I will be there to help. If you do use rocks I see no need to back fill with dirt, the rocks would hopefully work like a silt trap and prevent further erosion around the pit itself. maybe?
anyways set a date.

[jdjanda]

If I can only make in on a Thursday I'll need some pointers on what to start doing. I'd also like to set a place to meet up with those heading in on a Sat to discuss work that has been completed, and what additional work needs to be done. Sure would be nice to have a Kiosk to post information on trail repairs, such as what areas have been repaired, which areas are in need of repair, and what areas need to be monitored.

Joe

[66CJdean]

My plan is to get started on the pit at the bottom of Walker rock. This pit has grown a tremendous amount in just one weekend and there is a small bypass around it so I would like to fix the trail and close the bypass. The stream x-ing a few hundred yards before Walker needs some help also. There was a large log accross the creek that needs to be removed and the mud pit at the exit of that creek needs some work also.

Thanks Sean I got an e-mail from Tom saying he was in and I know that the group that we are going to be with will be up for doing the work so I think we have 10 rigs that can help. I don't know if everyone is going to help but if they do we can split up and tackle a few at a time.

[Aggro]

Originally posted by 66CJdean
... and looking into making a way for the water to get out of the small lake just after Ellis on the Walker side.

I have worked this one before and it'll take alot of work to successfully clear an exit path for the water. There are trees buried in the silt on the right side of the trail (going in). I have dug small trenches here before, but since they have to be dug around the trees they don't last long. We really need to get the trees that are blocking the natural water flow out of the way. They are buried. If we could remove just one, the largest, in the dead center of the "pond" I think the water would flow like natural again with a little help of our shovels to get it started.. In the past the only trenches I was able to dig were at the ellis creek side of the pond and only drained it when it was really full. They need to be in the natural creek area (center) and that's where the tree was left like 13 years ago. Cutting the offending tree(s) is hell on a saw with all the sand, silt and gravel that has worked it's way into the log.. I can try to make both dates. I'll make one for sure.

[randii]

Cutting the offending tree(s) is hell on a saw with all the sand, silt and gravel that has worked it's way into the log...
Get a demolition blade and a sawzall -- I've had good luck blowing through concreted stump in my sideyard with a few of these... I chipped most of the cement away, then laid into the stump with the sawzall. I'll pitch in for generator rental if needed...

Randii

[Monkeyboy]

Any one thought about using a good old fashion axe?

It may take a while but I figure a team of people taking turns swinging an axe at the log can take care of things.

[nasvik]

I'm there. No point in running the same trail for fun if all I can do is blast through. :D I'm not working right now, so anytime is good for me. And I could use the excercise.....

Let me/us know what to bring. I'll be there regardless.

Paul

[Aggro]

Originally posted by randii
Cutting the offending tree(s) is hell on a saw with all the sand, silt and gravel that has worked it's way into the log...
Get a demolition blade and a sawzall -- I've had good luck blowing through concreted stump in my sideyard with a few of these... I chipped most of the cement away, then laid into the stump with the sawzall. I'll pitch in for generator rental if needed...

Randii

Any one thought about using a good old fashion axe?

Any method will work, in the past I was always doint the work by myself, so easier was better.

[Jeepndel]

Boy, you guys move fast. I LIKE it.
Here's the deal. We should do the following:
1. Someone take the lead on this discussion/plan, and post a new thread with something like: RUbicon Work Weekends: June.
so folks can see that something is happening now. One lead hook to organize it. I'm going to be out of town a lot these next two weeks and my email will be now and then.

2. Someone needs to get a hold of Eldorado County (road crew) and let them know we're planning this and ask them to check it out and/or bless it. At least this is what we did with the Placer side. If we bypass this idea and do it without the county (and maybe even the feds), we might upset someone's apple cart.
The county might have some rock we could use, but logistically, it won't happen over night is what I'm afraid of.

3. Get this discussion on the FOTR list also. I can round up some more workers from that list once we know the date time. One of you FOTR folks can post this info if I'm gone.

4. The FOTR list allows me to tell the world that we'll have work going on on the trial too, so no one gets surprised (or at least not as many get surprised by being held up by work).

5. Mark Smith and Dan Mainwaring might help us too (the jamboree folks).

6. I will let the OHV commission know (they're on our team) and need to be in the loop.

Del

[Aggro]

So, it looks like the work day is Saturday, June 29th

If anyone needs a ride, contact me- I Am towing the rig up so I will have some seats. I will leave around 6:30-7am on this day.

[Rubicrawler]

Originally posted by Jeepndel
Boy, you guys move fast. I LIKE it.
Here's the deal. We should do the following:
1. Someone take the lead on this discussion/plan, and post a new thread with something like: RUbicon Work Weekends: June.
so folks can see that something is happening now. One lead hook to organize it. I'm going to be out of town a lot these next two weeks and my email will be now and then.



Del

Ok since I started this tread, I'll take the lead but I'm going to need help from some "locals" to pull this off. I'll post a new tread here and in Gen4x4.

Does anyone have a contact for the county?

I'll contact the JJ to close the loop with them.

[Rubicrawler]

I just got off the phone with JJ. I was unable to talk with Dan Mainwaring but the woman I spoke with was unaware of the problems areas ans was very appreciative that we are planning the work party. She said that JJ has no plans for work on the trail this year. She also said that she would give my name and number to Mr. Mainwaring and that she was sure that he would want to hear about our plans.

I guess the bottom line with the JJ for now is that there were no red flags or conflict with them. I'll report back after I hear from Mr. Mainwaring.

[Rubicrawler]

I just got a call from Dan Mainwaring with JJ. He's very supportive with what we are doing and even offered up a little cash to support our efforts. I thanked him but told him that if he felt strongly about contributing to send his $$ to FOTR in the way of a contribution.

He gave me 3 names of people to contact:

Dafney Green- ElDo County
Penny Humphry- Counnty OHV supervisor
Rich Platt- USFS

Does anyone know any of these individuals? If so would you be willing to contact them on our behalf?

[Jeepndel]

Daphne Greene is chair of our OHV Commission and our friend.
I'll let her know the plan and see what she thinks.

Penny Humphreys is the Bd. of supervisor who has the Rubicon in her district. She's green, but wants to manage the Rubicon so it's not a problem for her. She wants to keep it open but does not the problems it's causing her. So she's a good contact.

Rich Platt is the USFS guy who owns the Rubicon from their perspective and MUST be included somehow if we want to avoid trouble. He'll be happy to hear we're going to do something.

Del

[Rubicrawler]

Del- I just got phone numbers for Penny Humphreys and Richard Platt- I go ahead a call each of them :)

[Jeepndel]

THIS THREAD HAS MOVED.
to Rubicon work day: June 29th.
Del

[blazered]

My quad can get in on the trail with out a bypass except
those two spots!
COUNT ME IN

p.s. what tools do we need? :eek:

[RogueDogg1985]

QUESTION: Is where this spot at driveable by a semi stock 4x4 toy truck? I mean I have no lockers yet and it's only lifted 3" so far. So if I'm able to get to the work site I'd be more than happy to go up and help. I've never been on this trail, I have read and heard alot about it and I guess before I start making my yearly trips up there and wheeling it'd feel good to know that I've helped maintain it before hand. I live in the Phoenix Metro area so if anyone from here is going up maybe I could tag along and drive up behind ya'll or something. I've seen some dates tossed around, any set date yet? Please let me know, I bet I could even get a few guys to go with and lend a helping hand.

Thanks,

Brian "ROGUEDOGG" Ford