Ford, cut and run , cut and run.. Rover will get what it deserves. Maybe Hyundai can buy them. God knows that company has reliability under it's belt. That would be really cool. :flipoff2::flipoff2::flipoff2:

A hyundover

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118164797904332426-search.html?KEYWORDS=ford+rover+sale&COLLECTION=wsjie/6month

Actually I think most of us here hope Ford does cut and run.

what is it about Ford's ownership that no one likes? Did Ford have a heavy influence in the design of the latest offerings other than engine choices? If LR was its own independant company would you still be able to purchase a solid front axle Discovery or would it have been replaced with a luxury sounding nameplate and an electropneumatic mess under the frame?

Even if price wasn't an issue, nothing currently in production really interests me and I'm wondering how much Ford has to do with that. I kind of like Ford stuff, and I'm not really looking for "Ford sucks, Chevy rules" reasons or even marketing issues. What did they do wrong, if anything, on the design aspect of these trucks?

Ford did a wonderful job making the Jaguar Contour. LR was profitable under BMW also, I wish they had kept it but as then, and is likely now, it's going to be a package deal.
If nothing from LR interests you, why are you here? When Daimler dumped Chrysler did we go start shit on the Jeep forum?

If nothing from LR interests you, why are you here? When Daimler dumped Chrysler did we go start shit on the Jeep forum?


gee I don't know, maybe LR used to make something that interested me. Maybe they used to build something that I've purchased multiple models of and have a storage unit full of enough crap to build a few more :shaking: fucking idiot

back on topic, what went wrong with the choices ford made?

So I'm a fucking idiot for asking this? Why is that?
Ford has a history of making "World Platforms", hence the Jaguar Contour. Several other Ford owned Euro brands where using the world platforms too.
Sorry, since I'm only a fucking idiot I can't recall what they were. I do know they were based on a Lincoln platform. Not a direction LR needed to be going.
As when BMW owned them, LR is the only British car company that is making any money. Ford just can't manage it's home company right now let alone it's European interests.
I didn't say Ford did anything particularly bad for LR. But they didn't really do anything particularly good for them either.

If LR was its own independant company would you still be able to purchase a solid front axle Discovery or would it have been replaced with a luxury sounding nameplate and an electropneumatic mess under the frame?

Maybe you missed the connection. But the "LR3" that they sell in the US is badged "Discovery" in the rest of the world.

No beam axle and it features electropneumatic suspension, it's also a luxury vehicle.:flipoff2:

The rest of the world can still buy defenders, maybe you should move?

The rest of the world can still buy defenders, maybe you should move?


Now that's funny right there.:laughing:

i never understood why the defender isn't available in the U.S. I know that it was for short time, but it seems like there is a market for it. I see enough of those mercedes defender looking things, and i don't think the defender is as expensive as the mercedes. I was really dissapointed when everything went IFS too, and then they put out that ford escape with a spare tire on the back.:shaking: Was that all Ford, or did LR do that to themselves?

I don't think Land Rover was profitable under BMW at all :

http://www.eurofound.europa.eu/eiro/2000/04/feature/uk0004164f.html

Importing Defenders into the US is probably not a very profitable idea for Ford or any other automaker since the production costs are much higher than that of similar marques, reliability a lot lower, and parts cost astronomical (in comparison).

I don't think Land Rover was profitable under BMW at all :

Rover was the money pit, Land Rover was the only profitable venture of the English companies that BMW owned.
Rover and Land Rover are two completely seperate companies.

i never understood why the defender isn't available in the U.S. I know that it was for short time, but it seems like there is a market for it. I see enough of those mercedes defender looking things, and i don't think the defender is as expensive as the mercedes. I was really dissapointed when everything went IFS too, and then they put out that ford escape with a spare tire on the back.:shaking: Was that all Ford, or did LR do that to themselves?

Quite simple.
Defenders are now all diesel, the diesel engines they had didn't meet expectations or emissions.

Escape with a tyre on the back? Freelander?

i always heard that the defenders were not imported because of the air bag regulations that hit after 97. don´t know if they are offered with them now or not but every vehicle in the us was required to have driver´s airbags by 98
The cost at the time to redesign the dash versus the number of vehicles they would sell would not justify the price.

ben

i always heard that the defenders were not imported because of the air bag regulations that hit after 97. don´t know if they are offered with them now or not but every vehicle in the us was required to have driver´s airbags by 98
The cost at the time to redesign the dash versus the number of vehicles they would sell would not justify the price.

ben

If they could retrofit a drivers airbag to the original mini, they could do it to a defender.

I've been googling to find out the year they went diesel only, but I can't find much.

Escape with a tyre on the back? Freelander?

Thats the one. I hate the freelander as much as i hate the cadilac catera. I can't look at a luxury brand car the same after they put out a POS vehicle to lure in people that can't afford a full blown luxury car. between the escape and the freelander, i would rather have the escape. It looks better and i bet it performs the same off road. Which neither vehicle is really designed for. And it costs a boatload less for what seems like the same vehicle.

I've been googling to find out the year they went diesel only, but I can't find much.

About the time that they dumped the aluminum block V8 that we all know (and love?)

If they could retrofit a drivers airbag to the original mini, they could do it to a defender.



If they can put airbags in Rubicons and unlimiteds, AND keep the rain out, they can do it to the Defender.

I still think a retrofit can be done, but nobody seems to agree with me, much less be willing to try it.

Fading out the old-ex-Buick-V8 was probably due to emission regulations. IIRC the Bosch Ecu with the "Thor"-Plenum setup was the best that could be made out of it.

I don´t think there were technical reasons against fitting a V8 into the recent Defender. More likely the marque in everywhere-else-of-where-gas-is-not-taxed-to-make-you-weep which is in coutries like Europe there no one asks for a V8. The Disco-3 was introduced with a V8 but dropped due to no demand. If it is possible to fit a V8, even supercharged in a vehicle like the present RangeRover then it could be done to the Defender. I think the RangeRover or Discovery is a more important vehicle for Rover than the Defender. Looking at the numbers of vehicles sold in Germany the Defender at the end of the list. The Defender is expensive to produce so less money to make with it (much handwork at the line). And re-tooling the line and re-designing just to comply with crash-test laws in a country where not so much vehicles could be sold - maybe a decision of money-counters. Maybe a reason was that US-customers are demanding and quality issues are made more known to the public by magazines and other means in the US. And the Defender is of low production quality. There were problems when BMW sold the make in Germany because many High-end buyers were attracted by the Land Rover (people who had seen "Daktari" when they were childs ..:) ). These people got rid of the Defenders after a short time and passed them over to enthusiasts who do not care for some aluminium corrosion at the bottom of the doors, rain coming in, .. ahhh you all know the annoyances. Furthermore the BMW-garages had problems with servicing the Defender. One should think that who cares for a high-end car should service the "tractor" with blind eyes. Apparently the oppisite was true, quite often old craftman´s like abilities (like dealing with TDi-injectors sticking in the head) were asked for by the Defender while the BMW-men were accustomed to plugging a testbook to the car. Well, I don´t want to bring the BMW people into discredit (as long as BMW´s are concerned), but a friend with a very old garage specialiced on LandRover had many customers who formerly were disappointed by BMW and then looked for someone else.
Who knows ???

Rover stopped to sell the Defender in Germany in the middle of the 80ies because the could not fit adjustable head lights, and maybe there was something with asbestos free brakes, IIRC. The Range Rover by that time had disc brakes and the Boge levelling unit so was not affected. Some years late the Defender was re-introduced.
Something else - it´s been said that The restriction to 2.5litres displacement of the Diesel engines is caused by tax rules of several coutries that make bigger engines much more expensive to buy (which is true f.i. for Italy). Don´t know if that is the reason. Does not seem to put other manufacturers off, like the Japanese ones.

(and love?)

Uh, no. But it does make a nice coffee table.

-Jeff

About the time that they dumped the aluminum block V8 that we all know (and love?)

No it was many years before then.
The rover V8 only got canned about 2-3 years back when the D2 stopped production.

The production defenders lost the V8 in the late 90's. You could still buy them, but only as a custom job through Landrover Special vehicles.
They made the call after more than 95% of defenders sold were diesel.

Yes there is a 2.5L diesel tax bracket in europe, which is why europe pumps out so many diesels just on or under 2.5L displacement. There's another one at 1.9L which accounts for all the 1.9 litre cars.
Japan has started to take notice of that. The latest Nissan 4wd's dropped their displacement from 3.0L to 2.5L.

Thats the one. I hate the freelander as much as i hate the cadilac catera. I can't look at a luxury brand car the same after they put out a POS vehicle to lure in people that can't afford a full blown luxury car. between the escape and the freelander, i would rather have the escape. It looks better and i bet it performs the same off road. Which neither vehicle is really designed for. And it costs a boatload less for what seems like the same vehicle.

ehhh what the fuck?

no idea what the escape is, but the freelander is based on a bulked up rover 200 platform, itself derived from an old honda civic design, all from long before ford became involved (even before bmw i think)

maybe the escape is a reworked freeby, I dunno, but its certainly not the other way around. and its the best selling 4x4 in a few of land rovers markets, not the best selling land rover, or the best selling small suv, but the best selling 4x4.

by far.

its worth a hell of a lot of money to land rover and is definitely one of the great saviours of the company, it and the disco are the main reasons land rover still exists today.

(i do not now, nor have i ever owned a freelander. nor do i have any aspirations to own one. well maybe one, but its not really a freeby http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1990-LAND-ROVER-RANGE-ROVER-VOGUE-SE-A-GREEN_W0QQitemZ110132758027QQihZ001QQcategoryZ2974 8QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

oh, i see, the new model freeby is perhaps related to the escape. ok. ummm

anyway

ehhh what the fuck?

no idea what the escape is, but the freelander is based on a bulked up rover 200 platform, itself derived from an old honda civic design, all from long before ford became involved (even before bmw i think)

maybe the escape is a reworked freeby, I dunno, but its certainly not the other way around. and its the best selling 4x4 in a few of land rovers markets, not the best selling land rover, or the best selling small suv, but the best selling 4x4.

by far.

its worth a hell of a lot of money to land rover and is definitely one of the great saviours of the company, it and the disco are the main reasons land rover still exists today.

(i do not now, nor have i ever owned a freelander. nor do i have any aspirations to own one. well maybe one, but its not really a freeby http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1990-LAND-ROVER-RANGE-ROVER-VOGUE-SE-A-GREEN_W0QQitemZ110132758027QQihZ001QQcategoryZ2974 8QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

I guess a company has to do what a company has to do.... Afterall, if they aren't in business, they can't produce anything. But that doesn't mean i have to like the freelander. I do however like the defender. Wish there were more rolling around over on this side of the pond.

back on topic, what went wrong with the choices ford made?

One word: marketing.

Ford missed the boat with LR and is allowing it to be just another luxury SUV maker (even if it IS a hell of a luxury SUV)... They failed to take advantage of the brand and the marketing synergies between the high-end and the off-road heritage.

The success of Jeep & Hummer selling vehicles that at least look like off-roaders off the shelf prove there is a market for the Defender, even at a higher price-point. But this topic has been beat to death.....

gee I don't know, maybe LR used to make something that interested me.
Case in point... you're not the only person saying this.

Fuck me dead, I think I just stumpled into Discoweb.:shaking:

Can you say diff-wroc?

http://icbirmingham.icnetwork.co.uk/birminghampost/news/tm_headline=saic-linked-to-jaguar-and-land-rover&method=full&objectid=19389052&siteid=50002-name_page.html

I wonder if any of this really matters ? Most of us on these forums probably look at Rovers as basic raw material, A starting point in creating the kind of truck that best suits our needs. If Land Rovers didn't exist we'd select some other brand as the basis for our creations. For the serious offroad enthusiast or working 4wd user the marque promised plenty but in reality delivered very little, and I for one will not be unduly upset to see the LandRover brand disappear.
Bill.

I'll be upset to see the marque disappear. Or see it sold to China and become less then what it remains.

JP