What should I expect to pay for a set of 44 FT Knuckles, Hysteer arms and studs?

Is this kit a reasonable price or do you know of somewhere better?

http://www.jeeperz-creeperz.com/steering-dana-steering-c-504_505.html

$699 :eek:Thats way too much! I got my knuckles from the boneyard for $40 and arms, spacers and studs from ebay for $ 200. Srounge around the boneyards for flat tops they are fairly common. Last i checked you could get knuckles, arms, spacers, and studs on ebay for $399. Do a search.

I got some flat top chevy knuckles with brake brackets for $130 from a friend. Had Parts Mike machine, drill, tap, with studs (arm and spindle), and some other miscellaneous 44 parts for $130 (with shipping), and one Sky arm (on sale) shipped for around $75.

$699 :eek:Thats way too much! I got my knuckles from the boneyard for $40 and arms, spacers and studs from ebay for $ 200. Srounge around the boneyards for flat tops they are fairly common. Last i checked you could get knuckles, arms, spacers, and studs on ebay for $399. Do a search.

I disagree. By the time you're done fawkin' around to get the quality you want, machine work, press work, arms, kits, used knuckles you gotta clean up (cheapest ones on eBay, unknown reliability, are $65 and $75 each respectively right now), new ball joints, etc. you're gonna spend almost that much plus several hours trying to get it done.

Knuckles, arms, spacer, and studs for $399? Show me. And you still got used knuckles, need machine work and press work for $100 or so, and ball joints for $130. That puts you at $630 right there.

And mouse's deal seems reasonable, but he's only doing one side, as far as I can tell.

For that matter, this is the link for Parts Mike's kit (http://www.partsmike.com/old/knuckle_kit.htm)...looks the same and guess what? It's $699.

The kit price looks reasonable to me.

http://www.wfoconcepts.com/Steering/Dana44/UsedFlattop.html

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Dana-44-Flat-Top-Knuckles-Cross-Over-High-Steer-Arms_W0QQitemZ270125559747QQihZ017QQcategoryZ42609 QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

$Knuckles, arms, spacer, and studs for $399? Show me.

$380:smokin:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Dana-44-Flat-Top-Knuckles-Cross-Over-High-Steer-Arms_W0QQitemZ270125559747QQihZ017QQcategoryZ42609 QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

$

$380:smokin:

3/4" billet instead of 1". $75 for ball joints? Spicer are $75 a side anywhere you buy them, and that's no labor. So are these "no name" joints? Added cost for tapering. No correction for camber angle. You get what you pay for.

i agree, you get what you pay for. The ones for $699 are very nice and are in fact brand new and complete. I'm a cheap bastard and wont pay that much, thats all. I sourced my knuckles from the boneyard for cheap, had the pass side machined for $40, and bought arms off ebay for $180. Yes it took some of my time to go pull the knuckles but I enjoyed it.

I have a similar question, and being the newbie here, I figured I would toss it in this post... since, as mentioned... it's a similar question...

I have just recently gotten in more serious 4x4s. I've had Jeeps all my life and had the opportunity to buy an old 62 Willys Wagon, mid build. I've already done a ton to the thing, but I'm at a stand-still, basically b/c I don't know what the heck I need to do... hopefully you guys have been here at one point or another... seems that resqme and LT1CJ have some good experience and knowledge - wanna give me some input?

I got most of the mechanicals a squared away and finally was ready for new shoes. Got the shoes, but they couldn't align it - this was the first time I'd given any thought to the front - Dana 44s. Turns out there ALOT or bad things going on here... the knuckle was all welded, etc... stuff looks bent, joint angles are way off. The thing steers and handles terribly over 45mph... it's literally a death trap.

So I def know I need at least one new knuckle, ball joints have seen better days, but is there more I can do, or a better steering/control system that I can build to make this more highway friendly (since I need to be able to hit highway speeds for at least 50 miles to go wheelin' around here)... I do plane on fabbing up a sway bar with disconnects, so that will help, but anything you guys can spot that could make this better? Also - how do I know what knuckle to get since I don't know what 44 I have. Wheels are on a 5 bolt pattern...

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/blarson04/front3.jpg

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/blarson04/front2.jpg

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/blarson04/front1.jpg

These two below show the welds... and it almost seems that the top of the steering arm there was cut off and welded or bent to that gawd-awful angle...

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/blarson04/front4.jpg

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/blarson04/front5.jpg

Any help would be great! I'm pretty much lost right now, and really new to front end building...

p.s. they wheels have about 3-4 degrees positive camber. Always hard to get a picture of that, but the bow away from each other pretty bad. I'm sure I need to incorporate some ball joints, or whatever (not sure what is on the market) for camber correction...

Yup, looks like a mess...belongs on the "scary steering" page. By fabbing a homemade steering arm and not understanding steering geometry and designing the arms accordingly, the previous owner has screwed up the relationship between the tie rod and rag link. This can cause scrubbing, difficult turning, easier turning one direction than the other, and incorrect tracking through turns. Not sure why your camber is messed up.

The good news is that the spring pads haven't been changed from what I can see in the pictures, so your caster is probably close if not spot on.

A kit like we're discussing will probably fix the steering problems you have here. It should work with any chevy, jeep, or dodge 44 (the Ford design has a larger hub hole and different brake design), so it should work with this one (which appears to be 1/2 ton chevy truck axle). It is likely that it will work with your tie rod, but you may have to replace your drag link. I can't figure why your caer would be off from what I am seeing here, but it is possible that it will correct that as well.

This kit will have the added advantage of putting both your tie rod and drag link above your axle, eliminating bumpsteer (which is what the previous owner was trying to do) and taking them out from under the spring and harm's way.

Minor camber issues (one or two degrees) can be corrected with "camber kits", offset camber bushings for the upper ball joint. If it's off more than that, there is something in the front housing significantly bent or mismatched.

Other loose steering issues could be worn steering box, worn or loose tie rod ends, damaged or loose steering box mounts, or bad spring bushings. I would do the knuckles first (because it is obvious that the welded hi-steer arm is a problem) and see where you are from there.

EDIT!!!

I think I may have changed my mind...in the last picture, it appears that the inner C's may have been welded on after the fact (cut off by the previous owner and welded back on in the process of narrowing the axle). If that is the case, they are probably what is causing your camber problem, and in order to fix it you will have to grind off the welds on the inner C's and weld them back on straight. Given that is the case you would probably be better off trying to find a 1/2 ton chevy or GMC donor truck and replacing the front housing. If you are lucky you may find one with hi-steer knuckles and kill two birds with one stone.

:eek:Wow that is a mess. I agree, I think you are better off starting over with a new donor axle if those inner c's were cut and turned. Look for a 73-76 Chevy half ton dana 44 or a pre 79 wagoneer will have a passenger drop dana 44. If you can measure your caster and its within spec, (+4-6 degrees) I would order up a new set of flat top knuckles and arms as mentioned above and you will have a steering system with the proper geometry. Keep us posted. Ill help anyway I can.

http://www.jeepsunlimited.com/forums/showthread.php?t=827828&highlight=flat+top

^^^that is a smokin' deal.

Thanks guys.

Great info. I hadn't even thought about the inner C's... you only cut those to rotate the housing right? So it's less stress on the U-joints going to the transfer case?

I do agree... I believe the axle did come from a 1/2 ton chevy... it a dana 44 wms 2 wms = 64", 4.10 limited slip, big-bearing spindles... and the front calipers are from a 1974 1/2 ton p/u (dana 44 or 10 bolt).

Flingarrows - great find. I may have to get in on that. I was talking to some folks at Sky about this problem... I've got to call them again. I was going to go find a knuckle in a junkyard, then ship it to them for machining/high steer kit, but that deal sounds great. The $700 deal (that I thread jacked - sorta) doesn't sound too bad either - and might be worth it to get quality stuff up front...

So is it typical for someone to take a housing to a shop and have the work done or are all wheelers training in cutting and welding on some level??? hahahaha. I can cut and weld, I just don't have the equipment...

LT - I'm sure there is info on this someplace, but I sure as heck couldn't find a good source, so might as well capture it here... but is there any major benefit over another to the pass side drop? Since I'm possibly replacing the housing... would there be any benefit to get a cross steer/dual steer (whatever they call it) dana 44 like the 79+ wagoneers (not the vacuum ones tho)...?

As for the camber... The odd thing is that both tires seem to bow away from each other at the top of the tire and at exactly the same camber. I will try to get a picture of that tonight/tomorrow. Maybe it's not as bad as I think, but the old tires were really badly worn, mainly on the inside, which didn't make a whole lot of sense to me b/c it's positive camber, so they should wear on the outside treads... no? The toe in and caster are within spec... so basically it makes my head hurt.

Thanks guys - this helps alot. I'm sure I will still have some more questions. Thanks for being gentle on me...

got my Full Size Jeep flat tops off Ebay for $120 shipped. Poison spider arms for $117 a piece and not sure on the.

http://www.jeepsunlimited.com/forums/showthread.php?t=827828&highlight=flat+top

totally smokein' deal... but since i have a passenger drop dana 44... would these fit?

Sorry if that's a dumb question, but I would guess that you'd have to have a cross over steering setup axle to have two flat top knucles? True? Not true?

I hadn't even thought about the inner C's... you only cut those to rotate the housing right? So it's less stress on the U-joints going to the transfer case?

The inner C's would be removed to cut and center/narrow the axle for your vehicle. Typically, if you are using a CV style shaft, that would be the time to change your pinion angle to point toward the t-case. If you are using a standard u-joint, you would take the opportunity to line up your joints at the same angle.

So is it typical for someone to take a housing to a shop and have the work done or are all wheelers training in cutting and welding on some level??? hahahaha. I can cut and weld, I just don't have the equipment...

Some do it themselves, some farm out parts of it, and some farm out the whole thing. Depends on your ability and tools. Looks like the guy who hacked yours was in over his head.


LT - I'm sure there is info on this someplace, but I sure as heck couldn't find a good source, so might as well capture it here... but is there any major benefit over another to the pass side drop? Since I'm possibly replacing the housing... would there be any benefit to get a cross steer/dual steer (whatever they call it) dana 44 like the 79+ wagoneers (not the vacuum ones tho)...?

There's no real benefit to passenger drop. Many of the passenger drop 44's are hi pinion, and of course that reduces driveshaft angles and keeps the shaft up and out of the way, so that is an advantage. Most people base their choice of passenger or drivers drop on the rest of the drivetrain, i.e. what t-case they are running and where it drops.

As for the camber... The odd thing is that both tires seem to bow away from each other at the top of the tire and at exactly the same camber. I will try to get a picture of that tonight/tomorrow. Maybe it's not as bad as I think, but the old tires were really badly worn, mainly on the inside, which didn't make a whole lot of sense to me b/c it's positive camber, so they should wear on the outside treads... no? The toe in and caster are within spec... so basically it makes my head hurt.

You're right, that doesn't make a lot of sense unless some other problem also existed (like the toe was set in dramtically in order to make the thing track at all).

Finally got the camber pics... anyone want to take a stab at this? hahahahaha


http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/blarson04/IMG_4079.jpg

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/blarson04/IMG_4078.jpg

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/blarson04/IMG_4077.jpg

soooo..... def need a new axle housing?

One thing that comes to my mind on this one is if they cut the inner C's off and then welded them back on, then they got them both crooked. But that is just a guess.

One thing that comes to my mind on this one is if they cut the inner C's off and then welded them back on, then they got them both crooked. But that is just a guess.

I agree completely, and if that is the case, this is a pretty common housing that can be had for cheaper than trying to fix this one. I would replace it.

Thanks guys!

Going to take it to a local guy on Friday to see what we can come up with.

Been a while, but finally got the front end fixed. Got new knuckles... and was hooked up with Tim Haight of Bronco Alley. He knows his stuff and this is what we did... pretty much changed it all up.

Lowering it causes the front driveshaft to hit the pan now tho... (th400 to a dana 20)... looking for a 205 to replace it so I can go test her out!

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/blarson04/willys/IMG_1293.jpg

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/blarson04/willys/IMG_1291.jpg

nice! trussed up too :)

That $699 does seem to be in the ballpark. Its been some time sense I built mine. After everything was said and done I was close to this number...but then again maybe I got screwed:D

Holy thread resurrection!

That looks WAY better...go wheel it!

Hahahhaha - yeah I figured I'd be nice and keep the before and after pics in the same thread!

Still have a few more things to do before I get to wheel it. Possibly moving the rear axle back a few inches. Upon lowering it the rear tires come pretty close to the front of the rear fender... and I can either cut the body... or move the axle back 2 inches and get a little more wheelbase... not that the willys ever had a large wheelbase...

I'll probably post any further updates to that Extreme Willys threads that is ever growing.

I shopped around and found SOLID knuckles brand new for 260. Called up Ballistic Fab and had them send me their arms and hardware for 190. And then found a complete set of Spicer ball joints for 100. Extreme happy with it and cost 550. Personally if you have the time; shop around. Deals are everywhere right now. Just my .02 cents :smokin:

i would say $70 for the passenger knuckle... about $50-75 for the labor of drilling and tapping and another $30 or so for the studs and washers (if you buy a kit). The steering arms are the expensive part.