Figured it would be good to share the process on how to become a home based FFL holder.
Current ATF Industry home page (http://www.atf.gov/firearms/industry/)
Info on ATF site on how to become an FFL, includes application forms (http://www.atf.gov/firearms/how-to/become-an-ffl.html)

Here is what you need.

1. Location. You need a physical address, not a PO Box. This address is where you will conduct business. You are only allowed to conduct business at the location listed on your license or in state gun shows. That's it. No delivery of items.

2. Plan. You have to have some sort of an idea as to what sort of business you want to run. If it doesn't sound like you are going to run a business, no license.
There are a number of different license types:
But most likely the home business will be gunsmithing, dealer, manufacturer, or importer. Gunsmithing does require a dealers license. If you go manufacturer (07) that includes dealer (01) and ammo manufacturer(06).

3. Zoning approval. The ATF will verify that what you plan to do is allowed by your city/county/state. So figure out who your local zoning agency is and contact them and find out. Here in CO Springs I can not run a retail business from my home. But firearms manufacturing is ok as is gunsmithing.

4. Forms: You need a Form 7 (5310.12), certification of compliance, 2 photos and 2 fingerprint cards (258A).
You can order them at the link above

5. Knowledge. Take the time to read through the fed firearms regulations (http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf)
It will help you to understand what you can do so you sound somewhat knowledgeable during the ATF interview. They don't expect you to understand this, but telling the agent you want your license so you can build MGs will probably end the interview ;)

6. Final thing is you must be able to own a firearm. The agent told me that if I went out today and filled out a 4473 and passed the back ground check, then I would be allowed to get an FFL as long as the zoning allowed it. I was worried that the back ground check was going to be more in depth/strict. I do have a TS Clearance so wasn't too worried about it. I can buy a firearm, but I do have a record. A lot of stupid stuff in my 20's. Anyway if you are wondering, like I was, that seems to be the criteria. If you are allowed to do what you want in the selected location by the local laws, and you are not prohibited by law from owning a firearm, you to can get an FFL.

When your forms arrive you will need to be fingerprinted. Call your local LE and tell them why and make an appointment. This isn't like a request to make an SBR where you can form an LLC or Trust and skip the LEO bit. The LEO doesn't get/need to approve the app or even sign it, but you will need to send a copy of the Form 7 to the CLEO. The form is in 4 identicle parts. 2 for the ATF, 1 for the CLEO and 1 for you. You will put the name and address of the CLEO that you send the copy to on the ones that go to ATF. They will check. The CLEO can not say "I don't want this person to be an FFL holder". , but if they have a record on you ( I am thinking domestic violence, restraining order, etc) they will supply the info to ATF.

Anyway get fingerprinted and then go get some passport photos. You probably only need 2 for the ATF copies, but I added one to the CLEO copy just to make sure. Send the 2 atf copies of the form 7, the 2 completed fingerprint cards, the certificate of compliance, the two photos, and payment to ATF.
In about 2-4 weeks you will be contacted by your local ATF agent. They will conduct an interview at the location on the license application. They might want to look at where you plan on doing business, but I doubt it. There are no requirements to secure the firearms in your possession. You do have to ensure that any handgun that leaves your control to a non licensed individual has a locking device, but you don't need to have a safe or alarms or anything. I even asked, "when you guys conduct your annual inspections if you show up and I just have rifles piled all over the garage I can't get in trouble"..."thats correct". The interviewer brings a hard copy of the Fed Firearms Regulation Guide for you as well as copies of all the forms, 4473, loss&theft report, etc. They will go line by line through each form with you explaining how to fill them out. Discuss the back ground checks. How to maintain paperwork, etc. I had read the book, but I still asked a couple questions. I don't even want to come close to doing something questionable. I actually had a bunch of questions written down before they showed up and came up with more as we went over everything. During the interview they go through a check list of all of the laws/regs. At the end of this you will sign it.

After the interview they file a report. I guess if they hear something questionable they could file a negative report. When we were talking about how long the process takes the agent said "when I get back to the office I will send my approval to licensing branch" so I am hopeful...hell not hopeful I am anxiously staring at the mail box.

She said right now it's taking Licensing Branch 2-4 weeks to process.

Any questions?

How much liability insurance are you going to carry? Since you included ammunition manufacturer in your FFL, who's going to cover the damages in the event you have an accident? Dedicated business insurer or homeowners?

Same-similar stuff my dad went through when he had his FFL license. The catch is that the ATF checks zoning, etc. status with the city-county-state every license renewal cycle and the if the local laws change bye-bye goes the license. Or so my dad found out when Boulder, CO. changed their regs on "dealers" and what constituted a place of business when selling firearms...

Fortunately yer in the more *conservative* section of CO... ;)

D.

Thanks for the info. I'm still waiting on my forms. Been about 4 weeks. I'm stoked now that I live in a state where I can do this.

I don't know about insurance yet. I know it probably sounds backwards, but I wanted to be approved for the FFL before I did anything that would cost me money, sale tax license, insurance, new safe, add smoke and motion detectors to the garage (we have adt), etc.

On the zoning, I am hoping that in the next 3 years I am able to make this into a real business. When the kids start school SWMBO wants to go back to work. So then I could find a zoned store front that lets me do everything I want. I would have shop hours set to the same time they are in school so I will be home when they are.
There are a number of home based smiths here in town.

I remember it did take a while for the envelope with the forms to show up from the ATF.

I don't know about insurance yet. I know it probably sounds backwards, but I wanted to be approved for the FFL before I did anything that would cost me money, sale tax license, insurance, new safe, add smoke and motion detectors to the garage (we have adt), etc.

IIRC, a local guy who has his FFL and works out of his home building custom rifles told me his insurance company said that his reloading supplies (presses, powder, all other components) had to be in a separate building. So, a 16x20 Morgan building solved that problem, but the thing is, he had to go through three companies that would even consider insuring a FFL (gun/ammo manufacturer) working out of a house.

I asked him what difference it would make if it all went up...even in a building 20' from his home....and he just said that's what the insurance company said to do?

I don't know about insurance yet. I know it probably sounds backwards, but I wanted to be approved for the FFL before I did anything that would cost me money, sale tax license, insurance, new safe, add smoke and motion detectors to the garage (we have adt), etc.

On the zoning, I am hoping that in the next 3 years I am able to make this into a real business. When the kids start school SWMBO wants to go back to work. So then I could find a zoned store front that lets me do everything I want. I would have shop hours set to the same time they are in school so I will be home when they are.
There are a number of home based smiths here in town.

I remember it did take a while for the envelope with the forms to show up from the ATF.

Might add one more tax to plan for specifically the fed excise tax that we all pay when we buy any sort of sporting goods, It goes to the fed version of the DFG since its inception back in the 20s...

Good luck on the endeavour, taint nothin' like being ones own boss... ;)

D.

Might add one more tax to plan for specifically the fed excise tax that we all pay when we buy any sort of sporting goods, It goes to the fed version of the DFG since its inception back in the 20s...

Good luck on the endeavour, taint nothin' like being ones own boss... ;)

D.


Thank you.

Regarding the FET, it doesn't kickin until the 50th gun that I manufacture. The calender is the fed tax calendar...April to April.
If I manufacture 49 guns per year, no FET.
If I make 50+ then I owe the FET on every single one made.
This is on guns I actually manufacture...ie not serial numbered receivers I build a gun on.
The 1911s and ARs and FALs are all getting built on purchased receivers until I can afford a mill.
I don't see me building 50 AKs per year....if I do then yeehaw it's time to quite my fulltime job. :)

thread from the past.

got to thinking about it last night.

what was the final result on the insurance?? is it a must for someone that is just wanting to do transfers and no building of guns or ammo?

What about cost, Pete? I heard in the 1k range. Yes? No?

And what does SWMBO mean? NM, I googled.

Wow, this is like Professor Peabody's Wayback Machine.

After reading this again, I wondered about the insurance as well.

Also, how did you get around the zoning for running a retail business out of your home? PO Box for address or did they just not want customers lining up at your door in a residential neighborhood and mail order is okay?

He said no retail. Ie, no counter...

What about cost, Pete? I heard in the 1k range. Yes? No?

And what does SWMBO mean? NM, I googled.

For me here in SC to hold an FFL, SOT & SCPDL (South Carolina Pistol Dealers License) it cost me approx $650 a year. Some years more, some less depending on which licenses need renewing that year. Some are every year, some are every other and some are every 3. Also here in SC I have to be bonded for $10,000 (Why I do not know), that is included in the $650 figure.

What about SOT and Title II/III manufacturer's license? Can you be part time, as in only certain months of the year?

What about SOT and Title II/III manufacturer's license? Can you be part time, as in only certain months of the year?

I don't see why not. For this you will need to get your 07 FFL, and SOT.

I am an 01 FFL and soon to be SOT. I can not "make" NFA items, however I can do transfers(between SOTs) and have them in my books tax free as long as I am an SOT( Special Occupational Tax payer).

This being said, I nor Pete are "full time" dealers/ manufactures, Pete more so that I, however he still has a day job like I do. I basically do this for fun, yes I make an extra hundo to 2 hundo a week, but all in all I just enjoy running a business and helping people obtain the firearms they they want at reasonable prices.

The ATF has no problem with this because I do run a business (all be is very small and not very profitable). They severely frown upon having the licensing purely for self deposition/manufacture. I imagine if/when you get inspected, and your bound book is filled with mostly self depositions, they will jerk the license.


BTW: I would just like to add...The interview with the ATF is no big deal at all. I was dead sure that a Samuel Jackson type agent in a black trench coat was going to show up and drill me on every aspect of my life and business plan. However on the contrary a young Asian girl (maybe 28) showed up in tight jeans and a tucked in polo. She was basically programmed on what to say and was not very knowledgeable of the finite details other than what she was trained to say/do. She actually told me that SBRs, suppressors, and MGs were absolutely illegal, and I should not have anything to do with them or I would get in trouble. I explained that with the proper paperwork they are %100 legal, she replied that the laws are written out in the books she gave me and I should be very sure of them before I "obtain" anything.

And what does SWMBO mean? NM, I googled.


Something I picked up a dozen or more years ago from the Rover boards :)

What about cost, Pete?

I am a FFL-07 Manufacturer - I can buy, sell, make ammo and firearms

This runs $150 every 3 years. The anniversary is based upon when your license is issued.

I paid my Special occupation Tax (500$ a year) so I am now able to buy, sell, make, NFA items. I am unable to make MGs unless I have a GOV/LEO demo leter.

The SOT is based on total sales of 500k per year. Its $500 below this amount, $000 above. Thats not 500k of profit, not 500k of NFA sales, but total sales. The Sot runs Jul 1 to Jun 30 every year. The years worth of sales was the previous calendar year, not the July-June.

$25 a year for LLC

16$ a year for city sales tax license.

State sales tax was a $50 deposit, that went towards my first quarters bill.

Based on how much I pay to local sales tax, I pay quarterly. Less then 10% of my sales are CO.

I have no employees so pay no income, or other taxes. i am set up as an LLC and claim everything on my 1040 Schedule C

Edited to add:
Manufacturing ammunition, semi auto firearms, fully auto firearms, short barrelled rifles, and supressors falls under "Defense material manufacturing" according to post 9/11 laws and requires registration with the statedepartment. Right now this is 2250$ per year.
According to the ATF buying a stripped receiver and parts, assembling a rifle and selling for profit is manufacturing.

So if you are looking at going 07 w/SOT you are looking at 2700-3200$ a year just in licenses.
Its all tax deductable, but 250$ a month is still $250.

Also, how did you get around the zoning for running a retail business out of your home? PO Box for address or did they just not want customers lining up at your door in a residential neighborhood and mail order is okay?

Every locallity is going to have its own set of rules. Where I live right now I am not allowed to have a retail store in my home.

I do not run a retail store.
I am a manufacturer and am allowed to manufacture from my home.
I am allowed to do transfers from my home.
I am allowed to sell on the internet.

Why can't you manufactur MGs without a demo letter? Is it your particular license, or the rules of the game?

How tough is it to come up with Demo letters? I've seen several demo letter examples on the web.

His type of mfg license requires it. A local LEO (or federal branch) must request a demonstration first.

Post 1986 MGs can ONLY be manufacturered for GOV/LEO use.
Same goes for transfer of post 86.

The letter does not need to be commit to buy. I just need to become friends with the Sherrif or the Chief of Police and they need to sign a letter stating they are interested in doing a comparrison test of MGs. I don't think it has to be very specific.
I then have to submit a copy of that letter with my Form 2 or Form 3.

After I have the items I can maintain them as long as I have a valid FFL and SOT.

I have talked wih a dealer, he basically allows the local Sherrifs Department to 'borrow' his FA weapons for training (which he gets to attend).

Pete

I am a FFL-07 Manufacturer - I can buy, sell, make ammo and firearms
This runs $150 every 3 years. The anniversary is based upon when your license is issued.

I paid my Special occupation Tax (500$ a year) so I am now able to buy, sell, make, NFA items. I am unable to make MGs unless I have a GOV/LEO demo leter.

The SOT is based on total sales. I can't remember if the cut off is 250k or 500k Its 500 below this amount, 1000 above. Thats not 250/500k of profit, not 250/500k of NFA sales, but total sales. So if the cut of is 250 I will be paying the higher amount this coming year.
The Sot runs Jul 1 to Jun 30 every year. I do not know, and need to check it out, but I think the years worth of sales was the previous calendar year, not the July-June.

$25 a year for LLC

16$ a year for city sales tax license.

State sales tax was a $50 deposit, that went towards my first quarters bill.

Based on how much I pay to local sales tax, I pay quarterly. Less then 10% of my sales are CO.

I have no employees so pay no income, or other taxes. i am set up as an LLC and claim everything on my 1040 Schedule C

Any truth to the ITAR registration requirement, I keep seeing this brought up places but can't find it anywhere on the ATF website. example: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/showthread.php?p=1112041, example2: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=44&t=254817. Combined with the crazy expansion of what constitutes manufacturing (i.e. assembling an AR on a stripped receiver is now "manufacturing" and requires an 07), this seems really scary. If it is true than what cost $50 a year ($150/3) just a few years ago is now $2,300 a year.

It has nothing to do with the ATF.
it's the State Department.

If you manufacture ammo, semi-auto, full auto, short barrelled shotguns, or silencers, or parts for those items you need to register and pay ITAR, whether you export or not.

It has nothing to do with the ATF. I can not see your second link, but from the first I take whatthe one poster says with a large grain of salt based on dealings I have had with him on calguns

Thank you.

I called the ATF this morning and they said no ITAR needed unless you are importing/exporting.

I am trying to decide on an FFL right now and like the latitude that comes with the 07 but not for $2300 a year. I had seen post like that on several websites and now I wonder if it is all the same guy spreading misinformation.

I called the ATF this morning and they said no ITAR needed unless you are importing/exporting.


:confused:


It has nothing to do with the ATF.
it's the State Department. If you manufacture ammo, semi-auto, full auto, short barrelled shotguns, or silencers, or parts for those items you need to register and pay ITAR, whether you export or not.

:confused:

Me too. I edited my last post after doing a bunch of reading (on the internet :()

JDMak what number/division did you call?
and did you get a name by chance?

I want to write and get a response in writing stating that.

Me too. I edited my last post after doing a bunch of reading (on the internet :()

JDMak what number/division did you call?
and did you get a name by chance?

I want to write and get a response in writing stating that.

I called the Federal Firearms Licensing Center, 1-866-662-2750. I did not get the lady's name. I am going to send of a letter so that I can have it in writing. I also left a message for my local field agent (Alaska).

Just spoke with local field agent (Alaska). She also confirmed, no ITAR unless import/export. As long as you are manufacturing for the domestic market only, you are good. I think I will still try to get it as an official written response.

Pete, how are your edits not showing up?

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/showthread.php?p=1112041

hey, i responded in that thread. my last response there should make the pbb osr guys proud:D

I thought about cutting and pasting your Redhorsyguy nut hanger response here... Too lazy LOL!

Just spoke with local field agent (Alaska). She also confirmed, no ITAR unless import/export. As long as you are manufacturing for the domestic market only, you are good. I think I will still try to get it as an official written response.

Thanks.

I had never even heard of the ITAR stuff until you posted.
Did a whole lot of reading and thought - ohoh I better get a check out.
Then did more reading and got even more confused.

I would however say that based on my CalGun experiances with Freakshow I would take any thing he says with a very large grain of salt.
I have helped a lot of CGers after he dropped the ball on something.

checking edit

I had never even heard of the ITAR stuff until you posted.
Did a whole lot of reading and thought - ohoh I better get a check out.
Then did more reading and got even more confused.


I had never heard of the requirement before either. Then I saw it a few places in one night while reading FFL stuff. It was too late to call the ATF that evening and I turn to the PBB for most of my legal advice so I figured I would ask you guys.


I would however say that based on my CalGun experiances with Freakshow I would take any thing he says with a very large grain of salt.
I have helped a lot of CGers after he dropped the ball on something.



Yeah he seems like he might be a bit of a drama queen with the "Ten year felony and $1 million fine for noncompliance. Not one or the other, BOTH.". So some obscure requirement that only a few guys have is going to send everybody else to jail for 10 years with no warning.

There is a HUGE article on the new ITAR garbage in Front Sight this month. It's USPSA's official magazine, and might just be available free on their website. It was at least 4 pages long, and crazy detailed.

The short version is that import/export IATR stuff was tiny and cheap. Then, just before Bush left office, the State Department's regulations were modified to make them self supporting, and set their own fees. Brilliant.

I'll try to remember to actually pay careful attention on a re-read of it, and post a paraphrase if you can't find it on their webite. I couldn't tell you, since it's blocked at work.

Just thought I would bump this thread...

Mailed form 5-27
Check cashed 6-02

:twiddlesthumbs:

Just thought I would bump this thread...

Mailed form 5-27
Check cashed 6-02

:twiddlesthumbs:

How long did it take them to get around to sending you forms? :mad3:

How long did it take them to get around to sending you forms? :mad3:

Not long, but I have had the forms for a year or so. The most recent forms I ordered were Form 1's and they took about 8 weeks in March

How long did it take them to get around to sending you forms? :mad3:

I ordered 4473's in April and still haven't seen them.
I still have the psot election dealer letter that authorizes photo copies. I am down to my last "official" 4473

For more fun, I just got a call back from my merchant services provider; they won't do merchant services for somebody that sells guns mailorder. I explained to them the legality of shipping guns (destination FFL and all), I tried to get them to clarify exactly what they will and won't handle, but they don't really know, it's just a processing bank thing, and they'll call the bank and find out more and get back to me later. I also noted that they'll lose my present business in the deal if I have to shop around, but didn't get the impression that they care.

I can't remember which CC processor it was but there was a thread a year or so ago on the High Road where they just dropped an FFl with out warning when they found out he sold firearms.

Just thought I would bump this thread...

Mailed form 5-27
Check cashed 6-02

:twiddlesthumbs:

Any last minute advice going into the interview? Spoke with the BATFE agent today and have my interview on Wed, the 29th. With any luck, I will have my license in hand by the OSR shoot. :smokin:

Any last minute advice going into the interview? Spoke with the BATFE agent today and have my interview on Wed, the 29th. With any luck, I will have my license in hand by the OSR shoot. :smokin:

Good for you !
My 01/FFL interview was really laid back. He didn't even ask to see my safe or where I was doing my work or anything. But I have take him shooting twice since then, lol.


Thank you.

I called the ATF this morning and they said no ITAR needed unless you are importing/exporting.

I am trying to decide on an FFL right now and like the latitude that comes with the 07 but not for $2300 a year. I had seen post like that on several websites and now I wonder if it is all the same guy spreading misinformation.

So whats the deal with this ? Is it now 2300 for an 07 ? If so that seriously sucks because I need to change mine. SHIT

I know I am making this into a bigger deal than it should be, but damn, the waiting sucks!

Got my paperwork maybe 2 days after I requested it. It is sitting for now. Not exactly sure what I want to do with it, but I do miss the gun business.

Would you guys say it is worth setting everything up and maintaining the paperwork just for me and friends/family and occasional friend of a friend?

Got my paperwork maybe 2 days after I requested it. It is sitting for now. Not exactly sure what I want to do with it, but I do miss the gun business.

Would you guys say it is worth setting everything up and maintaining the paperwork just for me and friends/family and occasional friend of a friend?
Got mine in two days as well. Now the fight of trying to get my city to approve it. :rolleyes:

Got mine in two days as well. Now the fight of trying to get my city to approve it. :rolleyes:

:p

My town says "don't cause a traffic problem with parking, don't put out a sign bigger than (whatever), don't violate the noise ordinance, don't remodel the building(s) outside of residential norms, and don't open a sexually oriented business, but go ahead and make whatever guns the ATF will let you; here's the planning coordinator's phone number so they can call us to confirm"

Since I don't want a sign, much of a retail counter, or a stripper pole, and since I'm of the opinion that "hiding in plain sight" is probably the best first-level security for this business, I'm pretty well fine with their meager restrictions.

I was supposed to have my interview/meeting with the local ATF agent today, but she had to reschedule for next week. :(

It did, however, take months for them to send me the forms.

so how much of this can i get out of the way before i actually have place of business? i am really wanting to get my 07 but am not going to be able to do it out of my rental house. i can't afford to rent a shop without income from it while the atf takes it's time with paperwork. can i get everything out of the way except for the inspections before i actually have a place of business?

so how much of this can i get out of the way before i actually have place of business? i am really wanting to get my 07 but am not going to be able to do it out of my rental house. i can't afford to rent a shop without income from it while the atf takes it's time with paperwork. can i get everything out of the way except for the inspections before i actually have a place of business?

Truthfully, none.

You need to confirm with zoning prior to submitting application. And you need the biz address for that as well as the application.

so how much of this can i get out of the way before i actually have place of business? i am really wanting to get my 07 but am not going to be able to do it out of my rental house. i can't afford to rent a shop without income from it while the atf takes it's time with paperwork. can i get everything out of the way except for the inspections before i actually have a place of business?

The interviewer that came to see me gave me a little grief, since I didn't contact the city zoning and tax license departments before my appointment.

Even though my 01 was issued in October by the ATF, the city is STILL dragging it's feet in the process of issuing my business/tax license.

I don't know how much of that stuff you could get out of the way now... considering that you don't (I'm assuming) yet have an address for your "business".

I don't even think that the ATF would push anything through, based on the above, either.

, or a stripper pole


I was supposed to have my interview/meeting with the local ATF agent today, but she had to reschedule for next week.

Just a coincidence?

If its the same investigator, she was cute

without going back and re-reading this thread, how long does it actually take from start to finish of the process? a month? 6 months? a year?

The interviewer that came to see me gave me a little grief, since I didn't contact the city zoning and tax license departments before my appointment.

Even though my 01 was issued in October by the ATF, the city is STILL dragging it's feet in the process of issuing my business/tax license.


That's amazing. I was flat out told by ATF that if zoning didn't approve, they wouldn't issue.

without going back and re-reading this thread, how long does it actually take from start to finish of the process? a month? 6 months? a year?

Mine was < 6 months from time I sent in my forms and check until I had paper in hand.

Sent in late May had before July 4th.

That's amazing. I was flat out told by ATF that if zoning didn't approve, they wouldn't issue.

They issued mine, saying that it would be revoked if the city didn't approve the zoning variance.

The interviewer DID check up on that the next week, too.

Got mine in two days as well. Now the fight of trying to get my city to approve it. :rolleyes:

That's amazing. I was flat out told by ATF that if zoning didn't approve, they wouldn't issue.

I was told the same thing by the ATF and then zoning told me no gun related businesses. :shaking: Then, I had a chat with one of the three City Council members from my town. They both told me that criminals are the problem and not guns(durr)He had a little chat with Zoning who came out to my house today with code enforcement(yep, Christmas Eve)and approved my business license. Woot! I'll turn in my ATF paperwork next week and then play the waiting game.

:beer:

so how much of this can i get out of the way before i actually have place of business? i am really wanting to get my 07 but am not going to be able to do it out of my rental house. i can't afford to rent a shop without income from it while the atf takes it's time with paperwork. can i get everything out of the way except for the inspections before i actually have a place of business?

Everything IMOP.
You need to make sure you can operate a business wherever your going to do it and get all your business lic's, LLC, EIN.,whatever. I had done all my footwork and the examiner was glad to see it. He still checked on zoning.
Someone even told him I couldn't receive UPS for a business at my home. He called me to tell me not to worry about it.

Are your machines at the rental ? Landlord wont go for it at all ?



Good for you Chris !

Mine's held up pending the actual business license--I checked with town, they said it'd be fine, so not knowing how long ATF would take, I waited on the license. Dumb me, ATF wants a copy of it, which my town is taking its sweet time about issuing. :(

Everything IMOP.
You need to make sure you can operate a business wherever your going to do it and get all your business lic's, LLC, EIN.,whatever. I had done all my footwork and the examiner was glad to see it. He still checked on zoning.
Someone even told him I couldn't receive UPS for a business at my home. He called me to tell me not to worry about it.

Are your machines at the rental ? Landlord wont go for it at all ?




i have a couple things working against me. my machines are at a friend's home/shop. even if i could, i wouldn't want to put a burden on him with me running a business out of there. it is already extremely cool that he lets me use the space as it is.

the next thing is the house i am renting is part of a larger property that already has an automotive business running on it. they were having a hell of a time with the county when they wanted to tear down an old building on the property and build a new shop in it's place. something to do with the house being a "non-compliance" residence on a commercial property (the house has been there since '47). even if my landlord was ok with me running a business out of the house (which i honestly doubt he would be), i think it would be a major headache with the county.

i thought about renting a small storefront space that was available a few months back. i think it was $250 a month. it was only a couple hundred square feet and would be too small to do any real work in it. it would be fine as a place to do transactions and paperwork. that is still $250 a month going out without any money coming in. something like that may be what it takes to get started though. once everything is squared away with the licincing, i could then rent an actual shop space. while looking for a shop space, i am sure i could at least start making money with my machines at my friends house and do the "manufacturing" and transactions at my storefront.

Mine's held up pending the actual business license--I checked with town, they said it'd be fine, so not knowing how long ATF would take, I waited on the license. Dumb me, ATF wants a copy of it, which my town is taking its sweet time about issuing. :(

interesting, I didn't have to show the biz license.
Most of the wholesalers want to see a sales tax license as well as the FFL, but I didn't need a biz license for the ATF.

We don't have to have a bix license where we are located. All the ATF wanted to to verify that we could run a retail store.

We just applied for our second license...07/02 :evil: under the name Palmetto State Defence Corp.

We have not decided on going with PS Defence Corp, or just PSDC for short.

interesting, I didn't have to show the biz license.
Most of the wholesalers want to see a sales tax license as well as the FFL, but I didn't need a biz license for the ATF.

Problem for me is, the town planning coordinator (the person she has to talk to in order to verify that it's OK for me to do this) hadn't (as of I last heard) returned calls. If she'll call them back, they'll roll forward on the FFL; if she doesn't bother, I get to wait till I have the paper in hand for the FFL to roll on. Apparently, returning calls from the ATF isn't/wasn't high on her priority list. :(

Nobody but the town and the ATF cares about the business license at all, honestly--wholesalers in my experience care about the sales tax license, and even that, they only really care about if they're in-state.

We don't have to have a bix license where we are located. All the ATF wanted to to verify that we could run a retail store.

We just applied for our second license...07/02 :evil: under the name Palmetto State Defence Corp.

We have not decided on going with PS Defence Corp, or just PSDC for short.

Did you pick the British form of defense on purpose?

Did you pick the British form of defense on purpose?

No, I just suck at the engrish :flipoff2:

We don't have to have a bix license where we are located. All the ATF wanted to to verify that we could run a retail store.

We just applied for our second license...07/02 :evil: under the name Palmetto State Defence Corp.

We have not decided on going with PS Defence Corp, or just PSDC for short.

why a new entity instead of just modding your ffl?

why a new entity instead of just modding your ffl?

I am currently a sole proprietor, the new biz is an LLC. Most 07/02 around here also have a 01/03.

I can get the 07 and just drop the 01, but I can not mod a 01 to a 07. I am going to keep the 01 in my name "just in case".

I.E. PSDC get busted for some dumb shit one of my employees did, I can transfer everything to James Firearm and keep going. (not that we plan on anything illegal.

No, I just suck at the engrish :flipoff2:

I thought you might be injecting some irony into your name.

Mailed in my paperwork and check for my 07 a few minutes ago.

Not directly relevant, but my LLC paperwork went to the state today. As soon as I have something back from them, 07 paperwork will be in the mail to ATF.

I have heard that personal transfers are frowned upon, but what quantity are we talking about? Obviously I am going to buy my own items and not have them go through someone else, but if my business doesn't do so well, and I have 10 items going through my books for the next year and 5 of those are to me, will ATF come revoke my license?

I really need to start a list of questions for the interview...while I'm at it, anyone have anything that they want clarified?

Not directly relevant, but my LLC paperwork went to the state today. As soon as I have something back from them, 07 paperwork will be in the mail to ATF.

I have heard that personal transfers are frowned upon, but what quantity are we talking about? Obviously I am going to buy my own items and not have them go through someone else, but if my business doesn't do so well, and I have 10 items going through my books for the next year and 5 of those are to me, will ATF come revoke my license?

I really need to start a list of questions for the interview...while I'm at it, anyone have anything that they want clarified?

are you going to be getting an 07 or 01? i asked someone with an 01 why he does transfers for so cheap. his reply was they want to see the licensee is active engaged in doing business. doing transfers is a good way to keep the books going.

I have heard that personal transfers are frowned upon, but what quantity are we talking about? Obviously I am going to buy my own items and not have them go through someone else, but if my business doesn't do so well, and I have 10 items going through my books for the next year and 5 of those are to me, will ATF come revoke my license?

It'll look bad if they aren't still in your possession. I'd imagine that if it looks like you got the FFL mostly to facilitate your own collection, like if more than half your bound book shows sold to you, they'd probably question it, but just a handful over a year, I doubt they'd take issue with. Particularly in a first year.

FWIW, I've already had a couple local guys PM me off another board to ask if I'd do transfers for them, and I'm not even operational on my FFL yet--CBI (Colorado's background check contact point) hasn't gotten back to me with what I need to do background checks, the state has yet to get me a sales tax license (but they were sure johnny-on-the-spot with sending me tax forms :laughing: ), etc.

Based on that, I'd guess that if you just sign up on Gunbroker, Armsamerica, etc., as an FFL willing to handle transfers, you could probably make your FFL worthwhile in individual transfers (they take time to deal with the paperwork, but no direct cost) alone. And like 300sniper said, it keeps the books going. ATF is kinda like the IRS--if you're making money, it doesn't have to be much, paying taxes on it, and you're not breaking the law, you're just not very interesting.

07 is the plan since I would like to play with manufacturing, and $150 for 3 years isn't all that much.

SOT may come later once I have played for a while.

I plan to sign up for transfers on the auctions sites, and will do them for folks i know (and on here if interested) just to keep things moving.

I'd like to make a little cash, but I have 2 FFLs within a few miles, one is an overpriced tacticool jackass, and the other is a cool guy and I wonder how he keeps the lights on with his prices.

After the state kicked back my first VERY generic business name as already taken, I re-applied, and received my LLC paperwork today. :grinpimp:

Now to apply for my FFL.

I mailed my paperwork on the 4 or so of Jan, check was cashed the 8th, met with the ATF yesterday, (older Asian guy, where's the cute chicks?) and he says I will have it in hand no later than the end of this month depending on the snow in DC.

I mailed my paperwork on the 4 or so of Jan, check was cashed the 8th, met with the ATF yesterday, (older Asian guy, where's the cute chicks?) and he says I will have it in hand no later than the end of this month depending on the snow in DC.

Thats Quick!
Can't wait to move out of this school zone.:shaking:

I mailed my paperwork on the 4 or so of Jan, check was cashed the 8th, met with the ATF yesterday, (older Asian guy, where's the cute chicks?) and he says I will have it in hand no later than the end of this month depending on the snow in DC.


Here.

Wonder is Rockstomper had the same, she was very cute

at SHOT, i talked to the atf agent that is in charge of my area. from what i remember, she was pretty cute but at that time, i was more interested in getting the information i needed, not getting a date:D

I also met with him at work since it was much closer to him than my house and lasted maybe 20 minutes. He gave me all the paperwork, explained a few things and was gone.

Thats Quick!
Can't wait to move out of this school zone.:shaking:

Is the school zone a disqualifier based on the fed requirements? or based on your local zoning?

That's what has kept me from even trying, is the middle school across the street.

Is the school zone a disqualifier based on the fed requirements? or based on your local zoning?

That's what has kept me from even trying, is the middle school across the street.

I was told fed requirment.
I looked it up last year. And since I live in two states the house where I spend most of my time is considered primary which is near the school.:(

Is the school zone a disqualifier based on the fed requirements? or based on your local zoning?

That's what has kept me from even trying, is the middle school across the street.

Fed i believe. I want to say 1/2 mile

My investigator asked where the closest school was.

Fed i believe. I want to say 1/2 mile

My investigator asked where the closest school was.

That's kind of what I thought, and why I've never even bothered to look at the local zoning. :(

Whoo hoo! :D

Here.

Wonder is Rockstomper had the same, she was very cute

Same one for me, I think. Young (younger than me, and I'm not that old), I think recently-married at the time (her business cards were out of date and she had to hand-correct them), energetic, interested in her job... nothing like the stereotypical government worker.

I don't even know where the closest school to me is, though; I don't recall her asking.

Whoo hoo! :D

congo rats.

mine was put on hold due to life :shaking:

Why does my poecket license say " Not valid for the sale or other disposition of firearms"?

mine was put on hold due to life :shaking:

^This

Why does my poecket license say " Not valid for the sale or other disposition of firearms"?

huh?? Is this "pocket license" just for personal/license info and not to be used as the actual FFl paper?

^This



huh?? Is this "pocket license" just for personal/license info and not to be used as the actual FFl paper?

I don't know. You get both.

Whoo hoo! :D

:jealous:

Why does my poecket license say " Not valid for the sale or other disposition of firearms"?

Because you need to provide a signed copy of the actual license.
I am not even sure what the purpose of the wallet version is for

That's what I figgered. Just wasn't sure.

Whoo hoo! :D

So am I your second employee? :D

So am I your second employee? :D

You know you're always number one in my book.

you going to accept out of state transfers :D

you going to accept out of state transfers :D

Just as soon as I get all my state stuff sorted out. :D

I figured the "information card" was just for keeping your FFL number handy. So I left it attached to the rest of the license. :laughing:

Same one for me, I think. Young (younger than me, and I'm not that old), I think recently-married at the time (her business cards were out of date and she had to hand-correct them), energetic, interested in her job... nothing like the stereotypical government worker.

I don't even know where the closest school to me is, though; I don't recall her asking.

Funny, GOV must not have any money for biz cards. The one I have from May 07 has pen&ink changes on it.

I figured the "information card" was just for keeping your FFL number handy. So I left it attached to the rest of the license. :laughing:

Me too. Sometimes I get them that way from others too but there is nothing on it I wouldnt want anyone to see so I leave it.

Good for you Chris

got my NFA gun trust all squared up, sent in for some form 1's, 3a, and 7 :evil:

:twiddles thumbs:

got my NFA gun trust all squared up, sent in for some form 1's, 3a, and 7 :evil:

:twiddles thumbs:

What made you go with the trust vs. other avenues if you don't mind me asking?

Chris

HONESTLY i didnt want to get fucked with, so i went the expensive route.

i paid 450 bucks to have a NFA lawyer here in texas draft up my trust, that way if the quicken living trust or whatever has any loop holes, i have this lawyer on retainer for it. she gaurantee's her trust to be airtight, and she also has AOW/class 3 stuff herself......


have fun getting a CLEO to sign off on it, if you dont go NFA trust.


some living trusts actually make the benificiary legally "illegal", meaning the trust doesnt spell out how to transfer/touch/carry/store/use the items if we pass on..... and actually makes them in violation of the NFA.... i didnt want the hassle, or see my hard earned money in this shit get confiscated/destroyed, or me get a fat ass fine OR go to pound me in the ass prison.

HONESTLY i didnt want to get fucked with, so i went the expensive route.

i paid 450 bucks to have a NFA lawyer here in texas draft up my trust, that way if the quicken living trust or whatever has any loop holes, i have this lawyer on retainer for it. she gaurantee's her trust to be airtight, and she also has AOW/class 3 stuff herself......


have fun getting a CLEO to sign off on it, if you dont go NFA trust.


some living trusts actually make the benificiary legally "illegal", meaning the trust doesnt spell out how to transfer/touch/carry/store/use the items if we pass on..... and actually makes them in violation of the NFA.... i didnt want the hassle, or see my hard earned money in this shit get confiscated/destroyed, or me get a fat ass fine OR go to pound me in the ass prison.


Who did you go with?


I've been doing a decent amount of reading on guntrustlawyer.com trying to get the info I need to get the trust ball rolling.

some chick named mitsy barajas in downtown houston, i can get you hooked up with her if you want.

FINALLY!

Mailed the 07 application today.

Why is it that 07 is $50 cheaper than 01? :confused:

So once I get my number, how do I get set up with vendors? Just call them and say "I want to sell your crap, send me things" ? What do they require? Just the FFL and tax paperwork? Can I set any of this up before I get the FFL?

Any recommendations on who to get stuff from? I know the shop I used to work at used Sports South for getting things fast and one off type stuff (prices weren't stellar IIRC), as well as a few other vendors (Bachman Pawn was a major one).

FINALLY!

Mailed the 07 application today.

Why is it that 07 is $50 cheaper than 01? :confused:

My guess is, because of the excise tax (11%) that 07's have to pay on what guns they manufacture if they make 50 or more guns a year.

Also, the inspector that came to see me mentioned that if you don't actually do some manufacturing, they'll decline you an 07 and make you get an 01 instead.

My guess is, because of the excise tax (11%) that 07's have to pay on what guns they manufacture if they make 50 or more guns a year.

Also, the inspector that came to see me mentioned that if you don't actually do some manufacturing, they'll decline you an 07 and make you get an 01 instead.

I went with 07 because of my understanding that "manufacturing" can be assembling an AR for resale. I don't intend to do a lot of this, but I know of some folks who would be interested in this type of thing.

FINALLY!

Mailed the 07 application today.

Why is it that 07 is $50 cheaper than 01? :confused:

No idea, but thats only the initial. 07 is 150 every 3 years to renew, 01 is 90 I believe to renew.

I went with 07 because of my understanding that "manufacturing" can be assembling an AR for resale. I don't intend to do a lot of this, but I know of some folks who would be interested in this type of thing.

According to ATF, yes, if you're buying receivers and parts and assembling guns, then selling the guns, you need to be licensed as a manufacturer for that, even though you might not necessarily truly be "manufacturing" anything.

Since a manufacturer can do everything a dealer can do and then some, my take is that the 07 is the preferred license to get (assuming your zoning allows it) and if you want to do mostly resale, do mostly resale, just make sure you do at least a couple things that require an 07 every year, and ATF will say "yup, you manufactured stuff, you did your paperwork, you paid your taxes, have a good next year".

I suspect zoning also kills a lot of 07 applications, as ATF's definition of "manufacturing" and most municipalities' definition, aren't really in line with each other. When I first started asking at town hall about getting an FFL07, the reaction I got felt like "uhh... yeah... there's nothing in the law that says you can't do that... but we need to correct that.", not "sure, we'd like to encourage you to start a business in town."

According to ATF, yes, if you're buying receivers and parts and assembling guns, then selling the guns, you need to be licensed as a manufacturer for that, even though you might not necessarily truly be "manufacturing" anything.

Since a manufacturer can do everything a dealer can do and then some, my take is that the 07 is the preferred license to get (assuming your zoning allows it) and if you want to do mostly resale, do mostly resale, just make sure you do at least a couple things that require an 07 every year, and ATF will say "yup, you manufactured stuff, you did your paperwork, you paid your taxes, have a good next year".

I suspect zoning also kills a lot of 07 applications, as ATF's definition of "manufacturing" and most municipalities' definition, aren't really in line with each other. When I first started asking at town hall about getting an FFL07, the reaction I got felt like "uhh... yeah... there's nothing in the law that says you can't do that... but we need to correct that.", not "sure, we'd like to encourage you to start a business in town."

Kinda the opposite here. I couldn't get a 'dealer' because of zoning, but 'manufacturer' was easy.

Kinda the opposite here. I couldn't get a 'dealer' because of zoning, but 'manufacturer' was easy.

I could get either by my zoning, but town has me severely limited on what kind and placement of signage I can have, noise, dust, parking/traffic concerns, etc... when I mentioned that I didn't want to have a sign, and that'd I'd mostly be dealing with other dealers and shipping stuff, not having a retail showroom, the town planning/zoning person sounded substantially relieved. :laughing:

My comment on the municipal zoning goes to that a lot of municipalities have restrictions on what a home based business can do, and many disallow manufacturing on the basis of that it includes mechanical assembly, welding, machining, grinding, etc.; those same municipalities are often perfectly happy to have what they think are quiet, mostly-paper-pushing, niche-retail-only businesses.

No zoning in Houston, so not a problem.

Check was cashed today. Expecting a call sometime soon to set up the interview.

:confused: when did you send yours in?


and houston covers spring area in zoning laws? i thought HOA's were teh zoning debbils?

:confused: when did you send yours in?


and houston covers spring area in zoning laws? i thought HOA's were teh zoning debbils?

Mailed out 03/22.

I said Houston, but Cypress/Harris County doesn't have zoning either.

Only problems I have with HOA are the ones related to my lawn. :laughing:

Got my interview set up for Thursday morning. They have requested my HOA rules and deed restrictions. Also want to see my sales tax permit, which I haven't applied for, so the investigator told me to apply for it online.

:grinpimp:

I could get either by my zoning, but town has me severely limited on what kind and placement of signage I can have, noise, dust, parking/traffic concerns, etc... when I mentioned that I didn't want to have a sign, and that'd I'd mostly be dealing with other dealers and shipping stuff, not having a retail showroom, the town planning/zoning person sounded substantially relieved. :laughing:

My comment on the municipal zoning goes to that a lot of municipalities have restrictions on what a home based business can do, and many disallow manufacturing on the basis of that it includes mechanical assembly, welding, machining, grinding, etc.; those same municipalities are often perfectly happy to have what they think are quiet, mostly-paper-pushing, niche-retail-only businesses.


This is pretty much how it was for me. Even though I had my 01, when the lady heard manufacturing she just told the BATFE no.
He got pissy with me about how I was supposed to have that squared away even before I sent in the application. Which I had done.
I called her and told her it was really just a nomenclature issue. We spoke for some time and she informed me that she had driven by my house and been to my web page. She asked if my neighbors knew what I was doing from my home. I told he no and there was no reason for them to.

I sent in my SOT app. yesterday. lol

our local police chief got the city council to push a law thru that says the city attorney or the police chief can review and STOP your home based business if it has the POTENTIAL to earn over $10,000.00 per year...sicne he feels you can SELL over $10K in guns per year, he says NO to any home based FFL...
these MUST run out of commercial property located no closer than 1000ft(any direction to a school, bar, church, or place that sells liquor.


wondere why there are only 11 FFls in town?

our local police chief got the city council to push a law thru that says the city attorney or the police chief can review and STOP your home based business if it has the POTENTIAL to earn over $10,000.00 per year...sicne he feels you can SELL over $10K in guns per year, he says NO to any home based FFL...
these MUST run out of commercial property located no closer than 1000ft(any direction to a school, bar, church, or place that sells liquor.


wondere why there are only 11 FFls in town?

Wow. That is incredibly restrictive. I would be out on every count except the earnings.

Is there any justification for it (not that it would be reasonable anyway) or is the chief just antigun?

Wow. That is incredibly restrictive. I would be out on every count except the earnings.

Is there any justification for it (not that it would be reasonable anyway) or is the chief just antigun?

What is that in your avatar?
WOW?

What is that in your avatar?
WOW?

:laughing:

a friend took a picture of my corgi and threw him in a WoW setup. there is a better pic in my profile.

Interview was more of a paperwork training session. Had 2 investigators show up and give me the rundown and ask me a few questions. 4-6 weeks was the worst case scenario for me to have a license in hand. :D

WOOHOO! FFL showed up today. Now to get set up with vendors and sell some guns! :grinpimp:

WOOHOO! FFL showed up today. Now to get set up with vendors and sell some guns! :grinpimp:

Well that's good to know. :evil:

Is there a PBB list of FFLs and locations?

As far as I know, no.
Chris, Shcmoozila, and myself are ffl vendors. I know that Rockstomper has applied, and think he got it already.
There are a number of other folks here that have them, or work at a gun shop.

As far as I know, no.
Chris, Shcmoozila, and myself are ffl vendors. I know that Rockstomper has applied, and think he got it already.
There are a number of other folks here that have them, or work at a gun shop.

I've got mine (CO), Chris has his (CA), I believe Redmist also does (ID). Not sure about others to add to the list.

Raises hand

07/SOT
in Louisiana

Movin' on up!

James Firearm is moving to 1200 Sq. Ft. of retail space!

Movin' on up!

James Firearm is moving to 1200 Sq. Ft. of retail space!

In Roanoke VA?!?! SWEEEET!!!!


:laughing:



This is on my to-do list. Ferreal. There's noone around here that'll do transfers for less than $25. Granted, that isn't bad at all considering, but still.

Movin' on up!

James Firearm is moving to 1200 Sq. Ft. of retail space!

Where are you moving to? Staying in SC?

So for the folks that have renewed, how long does it typically take to get the new one?
My check was cashed 14 april. Current license expirse on the 1st of July.

As far as I know, no.
Chris, Shcmoozila, and myself are ffl vendors. I know that Rockstomper has applied, and think he got it already.
There are a number of other folks here that have them, or work at a gun shop.

I'm an 01 in AZ.

I've been waiting since march to hear about my interview. I've called the lic. office and they say its "at the field office. waiting for review" Ugh.

Travis

UPDATE: I called the ATF right after I typed this. I got them to give me the field office number (there are a few in the area) and the agents name, I called and will have an interview next week. Nothing like our government at work!!!

I am moving 1 mie up the road to a strip mall

I got 1200 sq/ft. for 1k/mo. single net.

Right now I am just a step above a home based FFL, as I am out of a small office in an industrial district. No sign out side, just word of mouth.

We will be setting up a full retail opperation just like any other gun shop with gun smithing and coating work done on sight.


There is 8k of space next door that has been vacant for 2 years. If it vacant in a year or two (and we can get the loan) I would like to open an indoor range in it.

Someone needs to show up here that has one in Southwestern Mich.


Of course if anyone wants to open a branch here, I'm your man :flipoff2:

I am moving 1 mie up the road to a strip mall

I got 1200 sq/ft. for 1k/mo. single net.

Right now I am just a step above a home based FFL, as I am out of a small office in an industrial district. No sign out side, just word of mouth.

We will be setting up a full retail opperation just like any other gun shop with gun smithing and coating work done on sight.


There is 8k of space next door that has been vacant for 2 years. If it vacant in a year or two (and we can get the loan) I would like to open an indoor range in it.

Basically my plan. Indoor range is the way to go around here. Always busy.

I am at step 1 though. How do I skip steps 1 and 2 and hit step 3, Profit? :flipoff2:

I am moving 1 mie up the road to a strip mall

I got 1200 sq/ft. for 1k/mo. single net.

Right now I am just a step above a home based FFL, as I am out of a small office in an industrial district. No sign out side, just word of mouth.

We will be setting up a full retail opperation just like any other gun shop with gun smithing and coating work done on sight.


There is 8k of space next door that has been vacant for 2 years. If it vacant in a year or two (and we can get the loan) I would like to open an indoor range in it.

Awesome, and congrats.

I looked into it, but it's too risky of a situation for me. Sole income for the family and all.

So for the folks that have renewed, how long does it typically take to get the new one?
My check was cashed 14 april. Current license expirse on the 1st of July.

ATF will send ya a letter to show that your licensce is being renewed. You can take the letter and continue business. Time frame wise, you should expect your new one any time.

Wahoo, I had my interview a few minutes ago. Everything looks good. The inspector said they just got a HUGE pile of work that had been sitting at another location, so they are taking care of that before other things. He said I should see my license by the end of July at the latest.

Travis

I just called licensing. They are still waiting on the back ground check for my renewal. :confused: over 70 days so far.

I hold a current TS/SCI, was just renewed in March.
I can run a back ground check on myself and it comes back in ten minutes.

WTF?

our local police chief got the city council to push a law thru that says the city attorney or the police chief can review and STOP your home based business if it has the POTENTIAL to earn over $10,000.00 per year...sicne he feels you can SELL over $10K in guns per year, he says NO to any home based FFL...
these MUST run out of commercial property located no closer than 1000ft(any direction to a school, bar, church, or place that sells liquor.


wondere why there are only 11 FFls in town?

Good to know. Are you in the city of FW? Not that I want to buy a house in the city limits anyhow.

Anyone from Pirate with a FFL in the Eastern NC area?

Anyone from Pirate with a FFL in the Eastern NC area?


I don't know exactly how close they are to Eastern NC. But, JamesFirearm is in SC I believe.

Assuming I wanted to get into the SOT end of things...

Do I have to start the process over again?
What sort of time frame am I looking at? I would assume shorter, considering they just ran all of my info a couple of months ago, but I would also guess that none of that applies.

For now, all I would be doing is getting a few things for the shop, so that would save me transfer fees (which would be enough to cover the SOT costs).

How does the paperwork go here? Can I buy a suppressor from another SOT, and they just send it? Or is that a form 3?

Assuming I wanted to get into the SOT end of things...

Do I have to start the process over again?
What sort of time frame am I looking at? I would assume shorter, considering they just ran all of my info a couple of months ago, but I would also guess that none of that applies.

For now, all I would be doing is getting a few things for the shop, so that would save me transfer fees (which would be enough to cover the SOT costs).

How does the paperwork go here? Can I buy a suppressor from another SOT, and they just send it? Or is that a form 3?

You pay the tax, get the form. And now is the time to do it. They ALL run 1 July to 30 June.
All you need is an FFL, an EIC number and 500$. Fill out a form and send it in with the check. Will have the thing back in a couple weeks.

Yes, items are transered to you tax free on a form 3. That takes a couple weeks.

You pay the tax, get the form. And now is the time to do it. They ALL run 1 July to 30 June.
All you need is an FFL, an EIC number and 500$. Fill out a form and send it in with the check. Will have the thing back in a couple weeks.

Yes, items are transered to you tax free on a form 3. That takes a couple weeks.

Excellent. This is exactly what I was hoping for.

Form 5630.7 - Special Tax Registration and Return National Firearms Act (NFA), correct?

Wahoo!!! After what seems like years, it finally got here!! home based FFL01.

Travis

SOT paperwork showed up today and I have a very dumb question.

Do I want Class 2-Manufacturer, or Class 3-Dealer? Both are $500. I think it is Class 2 for manufacturing and selling SBR/SBS and suppressors.


:homer:

SOT paperwork showed up today and I have a very dumb question.

Do I want Class 2-Manufacturer, or Class 3-Dealer? Both are $500. I think it is Class 2 for manufacturing and selling SBR/SBS and suppressors.


:homer:

As I understand it, if you're an 07, you should get a C2, if you're an 01/02, you should get a C3.

As a FFL-07 with under 500,000 a year in 'total' sales I fall into the 72 tax class. Enter my info, FFL #, EIN, and send it in with the 500 check.

As a FFL-07 with under 500,000 a year in 'total' sales I fall into the 72 tax class. Enter my info, FFL #, EIN, and send it in with the 500 check.

Thanks. I don't think I will re-up your SOT though. :flipoff2:

:laughing:

It almost worked, Pete.

Quick question:

I am currently listed as a responsible party on another FFL, meaning I have sent in my picture as well as my fingerprints. Do I still have to redo all of that to apply for my own FFL? The owner of the FFL is wanting out, can he transfer the FFL to me or what route should I go?

Quick question:

I am currently listed as a responsible party on another FFL, meaning I have sent in my picture as well as my fingerprints. Do I still have to redo all of that to apply for my own FFL? The owner of the FFL is wanting out, can he transfer the FFL to me or what route should I go?

Call the licensing branch

Question on this: When applying for just an 07 as opposed to an 01 and 07 what's the difference? What does being a dealer afford you that you don't get as just a manufacturer?

What does being a dealer afford you that you don't get as just a manufacturer?

Nothing that I can tell.

Dealer pays less, and can only transfer.

07 can do everything an 01 can do, as well as manufacture firearms and ammo.
With a SOT you can then also manufacture mg/sbs/sbr/cans

Nothing that I can tell.

Thanks. That will save 700 dollars between the application fee and SOT.

Thanks. That will save 700 dollars between the application fee and SOT.

Pete hit it better. I was on my phone and keeping it short.

Last question: All the ATF forms are available online except for the fingerprint card. Will the state police fingerprint card suffice, or do I need to order the ATF cards?

Last question: All the ATF forms are available online except for the fingerprint card. Will the state police fingerprint card suffice, or do I need to order the ATF cards?

They'll send them out to you in less than a week. I think I ended up using the Sheriff's office cards though because we screwed something up on the ATF cards. The folks at the individual branches (NFA, licensing, tech) are generally pretty helpful, so call and ask.

Get them from the local ATF branch.

Get them from the local ATF branch.

They are 2 hours away (one way) so that isn't happening.

They are 2 hours away (one way) so that isn't happening.

By the time you pontificate about it enough on the interwebz, you could have them in hand. :p

By the time you pontificate about it enough on the interwebz, you could have them in hand. :p

I ordered them an hour ago.:flipoff2:

Which way are yall setting up the business. LLC or DBA?

Brandon

Which way are yall setting up the business. LLC or DBA?

Brandon

LLC looks like the best option. Keep in mind some states (such as PA, and Texas) charge a "franchise tax" to LLC's. There are also PLLC (Professional Limited Liability Company) this is used for businesses that require a license such as doctors, engineers, etc. I'm sure it could be applied to FFL holders. I haven't done any research on it, it just came up during some searching.

Doing Business As isn't a separate entity type in PA. When you file for your EIN for an LLC you can choose a separate DBA name.

When you get your EIN you can give a business name. Technically if you don't apply for it as an LLC, you are a Sole Proprietor. (assuming you're not applying as a corporation..etc.)

Which way are yall setting up the business. LLC or DBA?

Brandon

Mine is an LLC. All depends on what you want to do from a tax standpoint.

Mine is an LLC. All depends on what you want to do from a tax standpoint.

The federal government doesn't recognize an LLC for tax purposes.

As far as the state is concerned, an LLC allows pass through taxation which only affects an LLC if it is a partnership. It allows the taxes to be passed on to the partners of the LLC instead of being paid by the business itself. If you are a sole proprietor that is of no benefit. (*little benefit rather. It would depend on your overall tax picture.) Although the partnership must still file a tax return.

The only benefit to a self proprietor would be if the business got sued or had to declare bankruptcy. Even then if you are a sole proprietor, it is still going to come down to having a good lawyer.

The federal government doesn't recognize an LLC for tax purposes.

As far as the state is concerned, an LLC allows pass through taxation which only affects an LLC if it is a partnership. It allows the taxes to be passed on to the partners of the LLC instead of being paid by the business itself. If you are a sole proprietor that is of no benefit. (*little benefit rather. It would depend on your overall tax picture.) Although the partnership must still file a tax return.

The only benefit to a self proprietor would be if the business got sued or had to declare bankruptcy. Even then if you are a sole proprietor, it is still going to come down to having a good lawyer.

True. I wasn't comparing the LLC and DBA, although it did look that way. More LLC vs other business entities.

Brandon, I take it I'll have some local competition soon?

i doubt it. the wife lady is not to keen on my selling guns out of the house. i got alot of info from a website back in november and still have not done anything with it. the only reason i wanted it was to make some extra money on the side. mybe one day open a storefront a ways down the road. we will see what happens.

i doubt it. the wife lady is not to keen on my selling guns out of the house. i got alot of info from a website back in november and still have not done anything with it. the only reason i wanted it was to make some extra money on the side. mybe one day open a storefront a ways down the road. we will see what happens.

There is a lot of local competition around here, so be prepared for that if you get into it. The main reason people will want to deal with you ordering something in rather than one of the storefronts that has it in stock is if your prices are lower (which kills your margin).

No storefront also limits your vendors. You can't be a stocking vendor for Glock without a storefront, which leaves you buying from distributors with higher prices.

Just an FYI.

Tell me how you really feel about him!!!!!

:laughing:

Let me know if you need a hand with anything FFL wise.

Post office says that my FFL paperwork was delivered yesterday. Now I wait.

Manufacturing ammunition, semi auto firearms, fully auto firearms, short barrelled rifles, and supressors falls under "Defense material manufacturing" according to post 9/11 laws and requires registration with the statedepartment. Right now this is 2250$ per year.
According to the ATF buying a stripped receiver and parts, assembling a rifle and selling for profit is manufacturing.

So if you are looking at going 07 w/SOT you are looking at 2700-3200$ a year just in licenses.
Its all tax deductable, but 250$ a month is still $250.

Could you point me to a source of this information?

On another note, my local law enforcement officer (Sheriff) gave me back his copy of my application signed. It was my understanding that he didn't really need to do anything with it unless he knew of something that disqualified me. Should I just file it away?

Could you point me to a source of this information?

Out of all the 07/SOT's on this board no one can shed some light on this?

Out of all the 07/SOT's on this board no one can shed some light on this?

From what I've seen with the small time guys, its sort of a DADT policy.

Some folks say if you build one item you need to pay ITAR, some folks say it is a certain number of items. My investigator mentioned it in passing, but never said "get this now or we'll pull your license".

From what I've seen with the small time guys, its sort of a DADT policy.

Some folks say if you build one item you need to pay ITAR, some folks say it is a certain number of items. My investigator mentioned it in passing, but never said "get this now or we'll pull your license".

If it is just in reference to ITAR, I don't need that. I take care of that for my daytime job. It wouldn't apply to any FFL unless they were importing, exporting, or building components for someone who was going to export the final product (this is where my daytime business falls).

On another note, they processed my 150.00 today.

If it is just in reference to ITAR, I don't need that. I take care of that for my daytime job. It wouldn't apply to any FFL unless they were importing, exporting, or building components for someone who was going to export the final product (this is where my daytime business falls).

On another note, they processed my 150.00 today.


I thought your question was about ITAR. Looks like you understand it just fine

I'll second the DADT position

Congrats on the FFL.

I thought your question was about ITAR. Looks like you understand it just fine

I'll second the DADT position

Congrats on the FFL.

Thanks.

Anyone regret doing this out of their home?


I think with the new year I am going to try and start working on the state side of licenes and move forward with this.

Anyone regret doing this out of their home?


I think with the new year I am going to try and start working on the state side of licenes and move forward with this.

Other than not being a huge fan of having random people in my home, nope, no regrets.

Meeting with the ATF agent on Friday. Figuring out zoning has been a bit of a pain. I know it's alright (based on other businesses) but some townships default to the county, ours doesn't and has a clusterfuck of people who can't answer my question. I should have an answer by Friday though.

Other than not being a huge fan of having random people in my home, nope, no regrets.

That's my biggest hang up about doing it, but I'm getting closer and closer to pulling the trigger on it.

Quick question, my ex had a restraining order against me that expired early last year, would that DQ me?

Anyone else run into insurance issues? I told them it is a part time gig, appointment only. My homeowners wants me to get commercial through them (they are independent) but they want me to have a monitored security system in place and my FFL in hand. :rolleyes:


Guess I am going to work a little harder on getting my office/store finished in the barn so I can setup the interview for the FFL and worry about insurance later.

Quick question, my ex had a restraining order against me that expired early last year, would that DQ me?

Not automatically.

Another Q


As an 07/SOT II do you need to send in a form 1 for each SBR or suppressor you build or can you experiment and build at whim? Not talking about transferring, just building..

Other than not being a huge fan of having random people in my home, nope, no regrets.

somewhere along this is where I fall. I've considered it, but I guess Im just to :tinfoil: about winding up on a list somewhere when the .gov gets tired of letting us have guns.

somewhere along this is where I fall. I've considered it, but I guess Im just to :tinfoil: about winding up on a list somewhere when the .gov gets tired of letting us have guns.

Folks make it into my entryway (large open area by the front door...technically includes my dining room that we don't use). I have their gun and the paperwork there, so I am with them the whole time, and they make it 10 feet in my house. I open carry in the house, my safe is locked, generally the wife or a friend is in the house as well (although I don't really plan for that).

It is easy enough for folks to break into the actual gun store down the street (they have done it twice since he moved in a year ago), so I don't see why anyone would screw with me for a single gun.

If I ever move the Cruiser out of the garage, I may actually conduct business in there instead.

Another Q


As an 07/SOT II do you need to send in a form 1 for each SBR or suppressor you build or can you experiment and build at whim? Not talking about transferring, just building..

You must notify the ATF within 48 hours of creation. You have that time to decide to keep it, or cut up whatever it is.

Everything is papered.

Another Q


As an 07/SOT II do you need to send in a form 1 for each SBR or suppressor you build or can you experiment and build at whim? Not talking about transferring, just building..

Form 2.

It's a multi entry form, so you can have multiple things on it (I did a dozen SBR lowers one day for example)
You fax the form in, usually get the signed copy back in a couple weeks. I just maintain my copy until I get the signed one. F2 does not have a stamp with it.

When I did the Sten, I took a plain DOM tube, put all my info on it, then submitted the form. Figured if they said no, I would send the tube to them and be out nothing but 15$ :)

I have a box of suppressor internals that I have been fooling around with. But as of right now do not have a complete, final product so I havent submitted anything.

So as long as you list the serial #s and send it in within "48 hours" of creation you're good to go? It sounds like as long as you don't have a complete functioning item you don't need to send anything in? What if you have an sbr upper/barrel but don't attach it to an action/lower? A suppressed sbr on one form 2 is legit, or can you only put one nfa type per form?


I'm sure these might be frivolous and what not, I'm just trying to justify the extra expense of the SOT over an 07. Is all this type stuff spelled out in the ATF interview?

So as long as you list the serial #s and send it in within "48 hours" of creation you're good to go? It sounds like as long as you don't have a complete functioning item you don't need to send anything in? What if you have an sbr upper/barrel but don't attach it to an action/lower? A suppressed sbr on one form 2 is legit, or can you only put one nfa type per form?


I'm sure these might be frivolous and what not, I'm just trying to justify the extra expense of the SOT over an 07. Is all this type stuff spelled out in the ATF interview?



You can have more than one upper for an sbr. Your an 07. You can make a million uppers if you want

So as long as you list the serial #s and send it in within "48 hours" of creation you're good to go? It sounds like as long as you don't have a complete functioning item you don't need to send anything in? What if you have an sbr upper/barrel but don't attach it to an action/lower? A suppressed sbr on one form 2 is legit, or can you only put one nfa type per form?


I'm sure these might be frivolous and what not, I'm just trying to justify the extra expense of the SOT over an 07. Is all this type stuff spelled out in the ATF interview?

If you want to buy/build lots NFA goodies without dealing with tax stamps, then the SOT is worth it. If you want one or two SBRs and a couple of cans, then just pay the stamps.

Right now, with the limited number of NFA itmes I own (excluding the FA stuff), I'd be about the same amount in the hole for tax stamps as I am for 2 years of SOT.

So as long as you list the serial #s and send it in within "48 hours" of creation you're good to go? It sounds like as long as you don't have a complete functioning item you don't need to send anything in? What if you have an sbr upper/barrel but don't attach it to an action/lower? A suppressed sbr on one form 2 is legit, or can you only put one nfa type per form?


I have put SBRs and SBSs on same form. As an manufacturer w/sot I dont think I would worry much about having short uppers on hand with out having a registered lower on hand.


I'm sure these might be frivolous and what not, I'm just trying to justify the extra expense of the SOT over an 07. Is all this type stuff spelled out in the ATF interview?

I doubt the interviewer will know. My interviewer also does my inspections and was very concerned that I had MGs but no demo letters. I had to explain to them that I can manufacture with out the demo and that demos are typically only needed to transfer post86 dealer samples from others. But there are special circumstances where a posty could still get transfered with out a letter. (guy going out of business they made an exception and issued/approved form 3s). As long as I had the forms 2/3 then every thing was kosher. I am sure they called NFA branch to double check what I told them, but it has never come up again.

If you want to buy/build lots NFA goodies without dealing with tax stamps, then the SOT is worth it.

I try very hard to do 10 NFA transfers a year and charge 50$ per. So it covers the SOT.

But I got the SOT for the same reason I got the 07. I wanted to try making stuff.

It is just a benefit that some of the stuff I make the company keeps and I do use to go out and demonstrate. I have taken a lot of folks out to shoot suppressed and sold them on it so they have in turn bought a few things.

So as long as you list the serial #s and send it in within "48 hours" of creation you're good to go? Yes

It sounds like as long as you don't have a complete functioning item you don't need to send anything in? sorta, see below

What if you have an sbr upper/barrel but don't attach it to an action/lower? On an AR, only the lower is controlled

A suppressed sbr on one form 2 is legit, or can you only put one nfa type per form? A supressed AR, with the can attached perm, and over 16" is one stamp.

Technically, a single baffle IS a supressor, and should be regulated. For all other NFA items, parts is parts.

Technically, a single baffle IS a supressor, and should be regulated.

Correct. It is my understanding that it's illegal for a 'civilian' to have a baffle laying around.

But as a MFG I dont serialize each baffle, and thus dont submit a manufacturing report on each one.

I doubt the interviewer will know. My interviewer also does my inspections and was very concerned that I had MGs but no demo letters. I had to explain to them that I can manufacture with out the demo and that demos are typically only needed to transfer post86 dealer samples from others. But there are special circumstances where a posty could still get transfered with out a letter. (guy going out of business they made an exception and issued/approved form 3s). As long as I had the forms 2/3 then every thing was kosher. I am sure they called NFA branch to double check what I told them, but it has never come up again.

This logic is new to me. It's been a while since I read this whole thread, but I don't remember it being touched on either.

Care to elaborate?

A dealer in NFA items needs a demo letter from local LEO or MIL to buy a post sample. A manufacturer just makes one.

Yea I thought the whole purpose of the demo letter was so you could manufacture MGs in the first place. That sounds touchy.


I'm still up in the air whether I want to do the sot at first, or if I even want to do it at home. I could use the sot $ for a small shop somewhere. I really don't like the idea of people coming to the house, but don't want to limit myself to only online sales and transfers.

Thanks for the responses guys.

According to NFA branch (I called and asked) I can make without a demo letter.
I have only submitted 2 forms so far for MGs, but I faxed them in same as any other form 2 and got back an approved form.

If I wanted to do a no tax transfer of a post86 MG then a demo letter would need to get submitted with the form 3. With the exception noted previously.
I have had two chances now to acquire posties from someone going out of business and NFA was waiving the demo letter.

According to NFA branch (I called and asked) I can make without a demo letter.
I have only submitted 2 forms so far for MGs, but I faxed them in same as any other form 2 and got back an approved form.

If I wanted to do a no tax transfer of a post86 MG then a demo letter would need to get submitted with the form 3. With the exception noted previously.
I have had two chances now to acquire posties from someone going out of business and NFA was waiving the demo letter.

I was skeptical when I built my M16, especially when my local agent told me I couldn't (after I had done it). The thought of building a machine gun, then telling the ATF about it and them telling you that you can't scared the crap out of me, but my Form 2 was approved with no hassle.

I purchased my Glock switch from a guy going out of business without a demo letter.

I purchased my Glock switch...

WHAT!?!

Poosie!

Yea I thought the whole purpose of the demo letter was so you could manufacture MGs in the first place. That sounds touchy.

You thought wrong. It's a common misconception, and not touchy at all. An 07/SOT does not need anything beforehand to make a post sample. Only to purchase one from another dealer as noted. Out of business/LEO owned NFA items are often exempt from demo letter and sometimes NFA transfer tax requirements.

Well I was erring on the side of caution, and it is premature caution anyways, as I don't have my 07/SOT yet. I'm still a noob so I'm still learning, and that's what this thread is for :flipoff2:

WHAT!?!

Poosie!

It was cheap and convenient. Might explain why I haven't gotten it running yet. :laughing:

It will come with me to SHOT, maybe we can get it running.

I do intend to build one still.

Well I was erring on the side of caution, and it is premature caution anyways, as I don't have my 07/SOT yet. I'm still a noob so I'm still learning, and that's what this thread is for :flipoff2:


Just learn as you go...pretty sure that is what most folks here have done. :laughing:

It was cheap and convenient. Might explain why I haven't gotten it running yet. :laughing:

It will come with me to SHOT, maybe we can get it running.

I do intend to build one still.




Just learn as you go...pretty sure that is what most folks here have done. :laughing:

Im going to hate you when were done shooting. lol


Just know that the agents interviewing you will know less than you do. If you know your shit and can back it up you'll have no problems

It was cheap and convenient. Might explain why I haven't gotten it running yet. :laughing:

It will come with me to SHOT, maybe we can get it running.

I do intend to build one still.




Just learn as you go...pretty sure that is what most folks here have done. :laughing:

Yea that's kind of the plan, just don't wanna end up in prison :flipoff2:

Yea that's kind of the plan, just don't wanna end up in prison :flipoff2:

Read the NFA handbook in my sig. Lots of info and more straightforward than you would expect form a gov't document.

There are a ton of myths out there about what you can/can't do. Lots of outdated info, and lots of internet rumor.

If you have a question (after reading the handbook), call the NFA branch. I have found them to be knowledgeable and helpful (again, not what you'd expect).

Im going to hate you when were done shooting. lol

Why's that? I don't have that many toys.

I've skimmed through it, I'll take a closer look later tonight. I think I'm going to hold of on the SOT for now and rent a small shop instead, I can find something for the same price. I'm too broke either way right now, so it'll be a few months :rasta:

Why's that? I don't have that many toys.

Because ill have another project to do. The glock switch

FFL's in the mail...woohoo.

Cool, out of curiosity are you doing it with a "retail" location, or kitchen table style? If the latter, were they hesitant at all?

I've been telling myself I was going to wait until I finished remodeling my office and in the meantime sell stuff that doesn't need a license. But I would rather get it sooner.

Cool, out of curiosity are you doing it with a "retail" location, or kitchen table style? If the latter, were they hesitant at all?

I've been telling myself I was going to wait until I finished remodeling my office and in the meantime sell stuff that doesn't need a license. But I would rather get it sooner.

I have a large detached garage. She asked a lot of questions about what I was going to be doing despite the fact she admittedly didn't know that much about guns. She said she wanted to make sure I was going to be actually manufacturing as opposed to just doing gunsmithing and resale. She also wouldn't submit my paperwork until my zoning officer had faxed her the actual zoning paperwork.

Mine was concerned about zoning, but not the fact that I was working out of my house. I had to reassure my zoning person about what I was doing and why. After that he gave the ok to the agent.


Travis

She also wouldn't submit my paperwork until my zoning officer had faxed her the actual zoning paperwork.


:laughing: That is going to suck, I'm in a Podunk town and there isn't any zoning according to the Supervisor on the board. We can do whatever we want, I let him know what I was planning though. He didn't really seem to care.


Maybe I will just get the ball rolling, I have my "retail" front almost ripped apart and ready to start putting it back together.

:laughing: That is going to suck, I'm in a Podunk town and there isn't any zoning according to the Supervisor on the board. We can do whatever we want, I let him know what I was planning though. He didn't really seem to care.


Maybe I will just get the ball rolling, I have my "retail" front almost ripped apart and ready to start putting it back together.


Most townships in our area (except for mine :rolleyes:) don't have zoning officers and default to the county. Call your county office and check. Someone takes care of zoning, you just have to find out who. Your atf agent may ask for paperwork, and your supervisor saying "I don't care" won't cut it.

I feel like this may have been covered already, but it's been a while since I went through the whole thread at once.....

What's the deal with keeping logged items at the physical location on the FFL but doing transfers elsewhere? Say I were to get my FFL with my home address on it, but wanted to "conduct business" from a store front. In other words, rent a small office space or some such where I would do that actual transactions. Items would be shipped to my FFL address (my house) then if it was to be transferred to someone I would have them meet me at my "store".

I guess what I'm trying to get around is handling items with people AT my house. I guess they would have my address as they would need it for the transfer, but they wouldn't have a chance to scope things out or whatever it is I'm paranoid about. If it were an outgoing transfer, my info would be between my and the receiving FFL only, right?

I feel like this may have been covered already, but it's been a while since I went through the whole thread at once.....

What's the deal with keeping logged items at the physical location on the FFL but doing transfers elsewhere? Say I were to get my FFL with my home address on it, but wanted to "conduct business" from a store front. In other words, rent a small office space or some such where I would do that actual transactions. Items would be shipped to my FFL address (my house) then if it was to be transferred to someone I would have them meet me at my "store".

I guess what I'm trying to get around is handling items with people AT my house. I guess they would have my address as they would need it for the transfer, but they wouldn't have a chance to scope things out or whatever it is I'm paranoid about. If it were an outgoing transfer, my info would be between my and the receiving FFL only, right?

Aside from gun shows, you must do business at the location on the FFL.

I feel like this may have been covered already, but it's been a while since I went through the whole thread at once.....

What's the deal with keeping logged items at the physical location on the FFL but doing transfers elsewhere? Say I were to get my FFL with my home address on it, but wanted to "conduct business" from a store front. In other words, rent a small office space or some such where I would do that actual transactions. Items would be shipped to my FFL address (my house) then if it was to be transferred to someone I would have them meet me at my "store".

I guess what I'm trying to get around is handling items with people AT my house. I guess they would have my address as they would need it for the transfer, but they wouldn't have a chance to scope things out or whatever it is I'm paranoid about. If it were an outgoing transfer, my info would be between my and the receiving FFL only, right?

How many transfers are you planning on doing? How much are you going to charge?

Transfers are spotty. I've even posted my name in the local board's "list of local FFL's that do transfers" thread, and I've only ever done three transfers- and those were a 'friend-of-a-friend'.

If your business is going to revolve around something other than transfers (as mine does), I wouldn't worry about your home being the place of business.

Aside from gun shows, you must do business at the location on the FFL.

What defines "do business"?

If I was sending out a gun and someone gave me their gun, the $$ I quoted, and the receiving FFLs info at the local meeting place and I took it from there, that'd be no go?

How many transfers are you planning on doing? How much are you going to charge?

No clue. Would hopefully be the startup of more than just that.

Transfers are spotty. I've even posted my name in the local board's "list of local FFL's that do transfers" thread, and I've only ever done three transfers- and those were a 'friend-of-a-friend'.

What do you charge? Is it reasonable? Is there any law against any sort of advertisement of FFL services?

If your business is going to revolve around something other than transfers (as mine does), I wouldn't worry about your home being the place of business.

.

What do you charge? Is it reasonable? Is there any law against any sort of advertisement of FFL services?

$15. In that same thread there's a dude as low as $10. However, there's a guy here in the metro area that charges $100 per transfer. The ATF agent couldn't believe it, but I guess he has more transfer traffic than he can handle... not NFA transfers either.

I can't tell you what would, or would not make you "popular" for transfers.

There's no law. You're just bound in certain places (like here on the PBB concerning yellow stars). I am bound by city zoning laws that I can't be a nuisance with customers- however, I haven't tried to restrict my transfer customer base at all.

Look into the online version of the NICS check... you can complete the check faster than the person can fill out the 4473. MUCH less hassle than calling and having to do the "military phonetic alphabet" BS with the FBI dudes.

MUCH less hassle than calling and having to do the "military phonetic alphabet" BS with the FBI dudes.

Unless you live in a POC state...:flipoff2:.

What defines "do business"?

If I was sending out a gun and someone gave me their gun, the $$ I quoted, and the receiving FFLs info at the local meeting place and I took it from there, that'd be no go?

The bound book needs to be at your place of business as addressed on your FFL ALWAYS. You don't actually receive a firearm in until it's in your bound book, same goes for outgoing firearms. Transfers requiring NICS checks must be done from your business location. It's a liability, but you could deliver things assuming that a check was already done.

As for your second scenario, that would be a gray area as the gun isn't really in the possession of your business until you get it home and log it in. If something happened in between you would have some explaining to do.

Lil Bucket you might as well get a retail store front and have that listed as the FFL if you're concerned. I doubt anyone would mind, or even notice, if you worked after hours at home...


Edit: now that I think about it, I remember reading you're allowed to have offsite storage as long as there's no business conducted elsewhere. I bet you'd be fine to "store" guns at your house, and do transfers/sales out of the store front. Maintaining a website from home isn't considered "business" is it?

Lil Bucket you might as well get a retail store front and have that listed as the FFL if you're concerned. I doubt anyone would mind, or even notice, if you worked after hours at home...

That would be how I would handle it as well.

Lil Bucket you might as well get a retail store front and have that listed as the FFL if you're concerned. I doubt anyone would mind, or even notice, if you worked after hours at home...


Edit: now that I think about it, I remember reading you're allowed to have offsite storage as long as there's no business conducted elsewhere. I bet you'd be fine to "store" guns at your house, and do transfers/sales out of the store front. Maintaining a website from home isn't considered "business" is it?

That would be how I would handle it as well.

My thought is though that if business plans didn't work out, I would then have to transfer the address to my home and blablabla as it would be a rental situation.

Why to your home and not another space?

My thought is though that if business plans didn't work out, I would then have to transfer the address to my home and blablabla as it would be a rental situation.

You can't transfer it anyway, you would just have to reapply.

Why to your home and not another space?

Because I'd be a horrible failure and would then have to be a lowly garage based ffl :flipoff2:

Unless you live in a POC state...:flipoff2:.

Our CWP takes the place of the NICS check. Even easier.

You can't transfer it anyway, you would just have to reapply.

You don't reapply... there's a change of address form. Probably triggers a visit from the local agent.

You don't reapply... there's a change of address form. Probably triggers a visit from the local agent.

Yup, the ATF agent either misspoke or I misheard. An ATF Form 5300.38 will take care of a change of address. You would also need a Form 5630.7 if you deal with NFA stuff.

What defines "do business"?

If I was sending out a gun and someone gave me their gun, the $$ I quoted, and the receiving FFLs info at the local meeting place and I took it from there, that'd be no go?

The TRANSFER must occur at the premise address listed on your FFL or a Gun Show in your State.

The guy giving you the firearm is a TRANSFER.

I don't think there is any grey area here.

The TRANSFER must occur at the premise address listed on your FFL or a Gun Show in your State.

The guy giving you the firearm is a TRANSFER.

I don't think there is any grey area here.

Except someone could ship me a gun and I could have it held at the UPS shipping center. Then when I picked it up I would have physical possession at the UPS shipping center, but it wouldn't be logged in until I got to my place of business (home).

The TRANSFER must occur at the premise address listed on your FFL or a Gun Show in your State.

The guy giving you the firearm is a TRANSFER.

I don't think there is any grey area here.

This makes sense. Just wanted to confirm my ponderings and such. I by NO MEANS want to be operating in any grey areas.

I did get some interesting info from the FFL I just used (incoming Pete!!!)....

He said he gets a ridiculous volume of transfers, but would NEVER consider having an FFL if he didn't have his shop (bait, tackle, ammo, lake stop place). Part of what he was saying made sense, but at the same time sounded like he enjoyed the exclusivity in the area and didn't want "competition."

He said he gets a ridiculous volume of transfers, but would NEVER consider having an FFL if he didn't have his shop (bait, tackle, ammo, lake stop place). Part of what he was saying made sense, but at the same time sounded like he enjoyed the exclusivity in the area and didn't want "competition."

Is this going to be your primary source of income, or something on the side?

Have you talked to someone in the ATF from Business Operations in your area? They can answer all of your FFL-related questions. Don't ask them any gun tech things, though. :laughing:

He said he gets a ridiculous volume of transfers, but would NEVER consider having an FFL if he didn't have his shop (bait, tackle, ammo, lake stop place). Part of what he was saying made sense, but at the same time sounded like he enjoyed the exclusivity in the area and didn't want "competition."

In my city I am not allowed to run a commercial retail operation from my home, but I am allowed to run a manufacturing operation :confused:

Makes no sense to me, but I wanted to be an 07 anyway.

I'm seriously considering this, but the "business " would be in my shop, which I'm about to build a bar in. I'm guessing they would frown on having alcohol in the vicinity? What if all the firearms are in a separate room behind a lockable door? The bar would be for personal use, not commercial.

I'm seriously considering this, but the "business " would be in my shop, which I'm about to build a bar in. I'm guessing they would frown on having alcohol in the vicinity? What if all the firearms are in a separate room behind a lockable door? The bar would be for personal use, not commercial.You mean a machinist bench with shelving. Mount a vise on it.

In my city I am not allowed to run a commercial retail operation from my home, but I am allowed to run a manufacturing operation :confused:

Makes no sense to me, but I wanted to be an 07 anyway.

is this the reason for the stuff for sale?

In my city I am not allowed to run a commercial retail operation from my home, but I am allowed to run a manufacturing operation :confused:

Makes no sense to me, but I wanted to be an 07 anyway.They do not want the drive up traffic a commercial operation would cause. My next door neighbor did computers out of his garage. There was a non-stop flow of vehicles in front of my house.

I'm seriously considering this, but the "business " would be in my shop, which I'm about to build a bar in. I'm guessing they would frown on having alcohol in the vicinity? What if all the firearms are in a separate room behind a lockable door? The bar would be for personal use, not commercial.

Personal bar, or "bar" bar?

The ATF agents have walked right past the wetbar in full view of a bottle of Jack or Captain twice now.

I guess it depends on how you describe the nature of your business, nothing was specifically discussed about it for me.

Personal bar. Have a few friends over on a Friday night and empty some bottles, listen to music and hang out. No selling of alcohol or anything like that.

I'm thinking my community might give me the OK on this. They gave the approval to a guy to run a small brewery, so why not?

From what I've read, I need to apply for a FFL 01 as a dealer. Selling to friends would be the big thing, but it says I can also perform minor gunsmithing as long as it doesn't step into the manufacturing side.

For what it's worth, the city was more concerned about the business plans than the Feds.

They wanted to know expected numbers of customers, expected volume of stock, where it was to be kept, etc.

For what it's worth, the city was more concerned about the business plans than the Feds.

They wanted to know expected numbers of customers, expected volume of stock, where it was to be kept, etc.

Good info. Thanks :smokin:

is this the reason for the stuff for sale?

No. I have too many ARs so selling some.