Turning a horse facility into a shop....ideas??

[BajaBilly]

Looking for ideas and thoughts before I start tearing into this project.
I closed on a house on Monday, the metal building and fencing was originally designed for horses.
I'm changing all of that.
It's a 60x35 cleary metal building.
I'm getting estimates around $6000 to concrete the whole thing with 4000psi, and 2 3x3 sections that will be thicker for the auto lift.

The building has these stables in there right now, which I have to remove for the concrete. My idea was just to sell them right away, but wondered if there would be any use in me keeping them for the shop. Any ideas? What would be thier purpose if I kept them?
Selling them is still I think my best option, as the are custom built and being in a horse community should be worth a pretty fair amount.

Second, in the pic you may be able to see that there is water being piped in through the bottom of the floor. I haven't mentioned this to any of the concrete guys yet. Should I just rip it all out, or at least just up to the shop? I know I won't want it coming up throught the middle of the floor, but could at least save enough to have water at the shop. Ideas? A shop sink would be nice, maybe even a shower in there...?

Third is all the fencing and gates behind the shop. I was all ready to rip it out, which I started to do, but then found out the 6-4x4 pieces closest to the shop (tallest ones) are concreted in and got me thinking on maybe a roof coming off of the shop to the posts, shop expansion or ??? Ideas?

Would like to hear what you guys think or have seen done before.
Any cool things I can do, as this project is pretty much open right now

Am thinking about this now before I remove something I should of just left, or anything before the concrete is dropped in.

Thanks

[sonofmayhem]

That is sweet man, how far are you from your old place? looks like plenty of room for a couple of lifts.:D

I would sell the stalls to fund the concrete, or lift. And any extra crap you can.

[Gummi Bear]

That's a nice building...

Sell the stalls, get what you can out of them.

3,000 psi concrete is more than sufficient for the floor, good call on beefing up the post area for the lift. No need to spend money needlessly.

Instead of spending big on a higher test concrete, have it polished to a high sheen, and laid with a laser screed for a tight tolerance and a perfectly level floor.

(I did a 1.2 million square foot distribution facility, that had a 1/8" tolerance across the whole thing, they kept it at 1/16" :eek:)

For the posts - extend the roof, and make a nice sitting porch, or a covered storage area for a tractor, trailer or a truck.

Move the water connection to nearer the edge of the building, and sort out what you're going to do about septic (sewage) for the shop; whether you tie it in with the house, or build a seperate system. You need to make those plans now, before moving forward with the concrete, or do a 'leave-out' in the bathroom area so you can finish it out when you can afford to, or make up your mind on a layout. Either way, a 20-30 gallon water heater or a tankless unit will be money well spent.

Congrats on your new place!

[rocknbronco]

That's a nice building...

Sell the stalls, get what you can out of them.

3,000 psi concrete is more than sufficient for the floor, good call on beefing up the post area for the lift. No need to spend money needlessly.

Instead of spending big on a higher test concrete, have it polished to a high sheen, and laid with a laser screed for a tight tolerance and a perfectly level floor.

(I did a 1.2 million square foot distribution facility, that had a 1/8" tolerance across the whole thing, they kept it at 1/16" :eek:)

For the posts - extend the roof, and make a nice sitting porch, or a covered storage area for a tractor, trailer or a truck.

Move the water connection to nearer the edge of the building, and sort out what you're going to do about septic (sewage) for the shop; whether you tie it in with the house, or build a seperate system. You need to make those plans now, before moving forward with the concrete, or do a 'leave-out' in the bathroom area so you can finish it out when you can afford to, or make up your mind on a layout. Either way, a 20-30 gallon water heater or a tankless unit will be money well spent.

Congrats on your new place!

X2 it will be costly but not to bad if you do it right the first time also this reminds me why I like horse power and not horses.

[72hiboy4x4]

Maybe you could keep one of the stalls as a tool/parts lock-up area. Might or might not be worth the floor area it cost...But I'd do it, myself.

and definately plan for a full bathroom area! The one I had was Sooo nice to have. clean up outside, instead of greasing up the inside bath. If it gets too hot (this was in AZ) then a shower while you're working feels great!

And the tub makes a great ice chest for the Keg!

[BIGJMCCONNELL]

Here's another vote for keeping the water, even if you don't put any shower or sink in right away, you'll be glad you left yourself the option.

I'm jealous... that's going to make a sweet shop. Other suggestions are a ventilation fan up near the top in the end of the building and more florescent lighting. You can't have too many lights.

I like the idea of a shed roof off the back, if you can match the tin and make it look clean.
--John

[Bob1]

I would assume your going to have to take out the stalls so the floor can be poured, so why bother with reinstalling them, too much hassle. The only reason I see to keep one stall is for the tool lockup like previously mentioned, the drawback to that is you won't get as much money becaus your short one stall. The other downside is that if someone got into the shop they would be able to see what is in the tool storage area. With those in the form they are in they could just crawl over the top to get in.
I'd just take them out, sell them and build an office in the corner that will double as tool storage when you go on vacation. Put a door alarm on it and one big ass siren to alert the neighbors if someone breaks in.

Get rid of the water running through the floor and just terminate it before the structure. Then you can go back and do what you want with it. I'd imagine it get's kind of hot in there. When you reinstall the water "t" it off so that you can add sprinkler misters along the rafters, so in the dead of summer you can cool down the air temp with the misters.

[MT4Runner]

Insulate that fawker!!! Check out the vinyl-faced insulation they sell for prefabricated metal buildings. Keep cooler in the summer, warmer in the winter---especially in the roof. Also reflects more light so you get more useable light for every watt you dump into the space.

Absolutely sell the stalls. "Horse people" have more money and less sense than "horsepower people", and will pay too much for crap. Cash those fawkers out!! You might get back most of the cost of your slab.

Consider running in-slab hydronic heat lines. You may not use them right away, but you'll never add them later. Floor heat is awesome for working under a rig. You can manifold them together and run water with a small circ pump. Heat it with a small wood stove or waste oil heater with a water coil in the firebox, or with a small high-efficiency gas boiler.

In my area, 4ksi mud costs about $4/cy more than 3ksi mud. You'll be much less likely to get chips and dings when you drop steel or tools on the floor. If you're doing a 4" slab, this equates to about 50 yards, or a $200 upgrade cost.

Rebar is cheap insurance against cracking. Get some good 6"x6" w2.5xw2.5 mesh, or #3 bar at 12" o.c. Don't cheap out on reinforcing...if the subgrade moves in the future, you'll have cracks that catch wheels on every piece of equipment you have that rolls around.

Nice work on finding a cool new place!

[BajaBilly]

WOW!

Some excellent feedback guys!
Much appreciated

That is sweet man, how far are you from your old place? looks like plenty of room for a couple of lifts.:D

I would sell the stalls to fund the concrete, or lift. And any extra crap you can.
Thanks Adam,
It's about 10 minutes southeast of my old place. Best part, it's right on the county line so I'm in Elbert County. No emissions!!!!:D


That's a nice building...




Thanks!!
I never knew about polished crete. Gonna have to look into it.

Yes, sewage for the shop is another thing I need to check


I like horse power and not horses.

I like that. Might have to put up a sign saying that....:D


Maybe you could keep one of the stalls as a tool/parts lock-up area. Might or might not be worth the floor area it cost...But I'd do it, myself.

and definately plan for a full bathroom area! The one I had was Sooo nice to have. clean up outside, instead of greasing up the inside bath. If it gets too hot (this was in AZ) then a shower while you're working feels great!

And the tub makes a great ice chest for the Keg!

When I mentioned the full bathroom idea to the wife, she just smiled. So I think that will a possibility



I'm jealous... that's going to make a sweet shop. Other suggestions are a ventilation fan up near the top in the end of the building and more florescent lighting. You can't have too many lights.




Good idea on the ventilation. Was 98 here yesterday and just alot of hot sitting air in the shop

I would assume your going to have to take out the stalls so the floor can be poured, so why bother with reinstalling them, too much hassle. The only reason I see to keep one stall is for the tool lockup like previously mentioned, the drawback to that is you won't get as much money becaus your short one stall. The other downside is that if someone got into the shop they would be able to see what is in the tool storage area. With those in the form they are in they could just crawl over the top to get in.
I'd just take them out, sell them and build an office in the corner that will double as tool storage when you go on vacation. Put a door alarm on it and one big ass siren to alert the neighbors if someone breaks in.

Get rid of the water running through the floor and just terminate it before the structure. Then you can go back and do what you want with it. I'd imagine it get's kind of hot in there. When you reinstall the water "t" it off so that you can add sprinkler misters along the rafters, so in the dead of summer you can cool down the air temp with the misters.


I'm starting to agree on just selling the stables.

The mister idea is a new one for me. Thanks
Insulate that fawker!!! Check out the vinyl-faced insulation they sell for prefabricated metal buildings. Keep cooler in the summer, warmer in the winter---especially in the roof. Also reflects more light so you get more useable light for every watt you dump into the space.

Absolutely sell the stalls. "Horse people" have more money and less sense than "horsepower people", and will pay too much for crap. Cash those fawkers out!! You might get back most of the cost of your slab.

Consider running in-slab hydronic heat lines. You may not use them right away, but you'll never add them later. Floor heat is awesome for working under a rig. You can manifold them together and run water with a small circ pump. Heat it with a small wood stove or waste oil heater with a water coil in the firebox, or with a small high-efficiency gas boiler.

In my area, 4ksi mud costs about $4/cy more than 3ksi mud. You'll be much less likely to get chips and dings when you drop steel or tools on the floor. If you're doing a 4" slab, this equates to about 50 yards, or a $200 upgrade cost.

Rebar is cheap insurance against cracking. Get some good 6"x6" w2.5xw2.5 mesh, or #3 bar at 12" o.c. Don't cheap out on reinforcing...if the subgrade moves in the future, you'll have cracks that catch wheels on every piece of equipment you have that rolls around.

Nice work on finding a cool new place!


Ah yes! I knew this would come up soon. Insulation.
Actually the wife and I spent a good part of last night discussing the best and affordable way to do it. Partition...fill in the ceiling... leave a ceiling cut out for the lift....etc...

Are the hydronic line a huge cost? I do have a huge wood burner I was thinking on using, and have converted one to a oil burner before.

Thank for the info on the concrete!!

[jasonmt]

Are the hydronic line a huge cost? I do have a huge wood burner I was thinking on using, and have converted one to a oil burner before.

An easy rule of thumb for the hydronic heating lines is 1' of line per 1 sq. ft. of building and 1/2" O2 Barrier Pex should run ~35-40 cents/foot. Given the application you could make an argument both for and against under slab insulation but I have no experience of your climate...

[NASTJ]

(60' x 35' x 4/12) / 27 = 26 Cuyd + waste = about 30 CuYd

Around here you'd be looking at 4ea 8CuYd trucks for around $100.00/yd for 4000psi

You can get fiber reinforced concrete which makes a nice strong slab with no need for resteel.

[RHINO]

my buddy has a similar size shop, he only concreted half of it and laid rock on the other. i think its pretty nice with gravel indoor parking and a concrete section for work. course for him money was a factor in deciding, but i think its nice non the less.

[Wheel28]

Sell the horse stuff. It should pay for your slab. Heres a link for stalls and yours looks 10x better. http://houston.craigslist.org/grd/358739321.html

Will

[Gummi Bear]

Instead of doing batts, or vinyl faced insulation, consider having it sprayed with the foam insulation. It will seal out air leaks, have an excellent R value, and not take up too much space.

http://www.icynene.com/

We did this at my Granmother's place. I piped in all of my boxes and electrical, the HVAC and Plumbing was done also as well, then sprayed insulation.

Summers weren't too bad, as long as you could get enough air moving through (a couple of 48" fans sure helped) and in the winter, it stayed pretty warm with just a space heater.

If you're going to be fabbing in a given area, skin the walls with fire rated plywood afterward, or some sheet metal or similar

[85blue4runner]

looks like a cool place....composting toilets will alleviate the need for sewage treatment and then you will only have to deal with gray water, might save some cash, as gray water can be used for irrigation, flushing toilets in your house and a few other things.

The Icynene is cool stuff for sure, no VOC and several other companies made that type of insulation. It is soy based and sprayed with water so no chemicals.

1.2M ft2 with 1/16" tolerance is amazing, would like to see that done..

[rockcrawln]

Sounds like a great project. I would definatly shell out the money to make sure that slab is FLAT. The guys that finished my dads 50 X 60 shop messed the floor up so bad you can trip over it. From max high to max low is probably 1/2".

Another thing that I know has been mentioned is rebar. I don't know what your soil conditions are there but I would put in a mat of #3 on 12" centers at least. Its something that you can do yourself and will make sure that the concrete doesn't crack. Also, what kind of footing/piers does the current building sit on? If you can dowel and epoxy steel into that to tie the whiole thing together. Also consider going a little thicker on the slab. Maybe 4 - 5" and go with the 3000psi concrete. As stated above there really is no reason to have 4ksi concrete for what you are doing.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[Gummi Bear]

looks like a cool place....composting toilets will alleviate the need for sewage treatment and then you will only have to deal with gray water, might save some cash, as gray water can be used for irrigation, flushing toilets in your house and a few other things.

The Icynene is cool stuff for sure, no VOC and several other companies made that type of insulation. It is soy based and sprayed with water so no chemicals.

1.2M ft2 with 1/16" tolerance is amazing, would like to see that done..

I can't find any pictures, it was a cool job for sure though. There were something like 6 miles of intelligent conveyors in there, 2 ASRS (Automatic Sort & Retrieval System) towers with robots that ran 45+ mph to store and load goods to conveyors to head to the trucks, and 6 services @ 480V 3,000A each.

These are the guys that did that kick ass floor:
http://www.thefrickscompany.com/

[crimsen]

sell the stalls and get some money.

keep the posts and put a roof over it. great place to store parts, tube, equiptment, anything.

reinforce the floor. the steel won't really make it any stronger, but if it does crack, it will hold the crack together and prevent movement. fiber mesh is always a good choice to add, but i would still keep the steel. most importantly, make sure the ground is properly prepped for concrete and it is properly places and cured.

a washroom will be great to have. sucks having to take a crap and need to go all the way to the house. also makes clean up easier.

in floor heating will be great to have for warmth. not sure how cold it gets there in the winters, but having a warm floor to lay on is almost invaluable. even normal heating makes warming floors a pain.

insulate everything. spray foam will be the best to use, but will most likely be the highest cost. you will need to protect an area tho for welding and grinding or anything else which may melt the foam.

[BajaBilly]

Sorry I haven't been able to update as much as I like, but moving is taking up all of my time.

I'm liking the spray on insulation idea with the hydronic heating. Haven't got a full quote going that route yet, which might make me change your mind.

I told the concrete guy that I'm holding off for awhile to figure out my best route.

A friend had an idea last night, tell me what you think.

Recessed lighting in the floor....

Would it take away from strength? Anyone seen it before?
Sounds cool


Thanks for all your input so far guys! It really helps.

Bill

[PhantomEB]

Can be done but I imagine quite costly with having to run conduit under or thru the slab, etc. I have always thought of maybe like a paint booth but have the side lights on the wall way down at ankle height?